Hi all! I have been interested in radioactive minerals for some time. I am looking for a hand held visual scintillation detector. The type you hold up to your eye in the dark and view flashes on a phosphor screen. Basically a science-nerd toy. I saw one of these in an online catalog and now cant find it again. It was ~$30USD. Any idea where I can find (buy) one? Thanks, -Tom http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,228633#msg-228633 Tue, 21 May 2013 12:47:49 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242721#msg-242721 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242721#msg-242721
Be careful with them thar mice! I had a couple get into my collection drawers about 15 years ago, when I was inactive on the minerals front, and they made a nest in the 'divers silicates' section. Trouble was that it (the nest) was made from the well-chewed-up labels from about half a dozen drawers. Luckily I could remember a lot of the data, because much was self-collected, but there are still some nice specimens that have beeen 'moused' into anonymity!

Hope all is well with you

Cheers

Tim]]> Timothy Greenland Analytical Techniques Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:09:23 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242704#msg-242704 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242704#msg-242704 Donald Peck Analytical Techniques Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:37:07 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242700#msg-242700 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242700#msg-242700 Rock Currier Analytical Techniques Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:12:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242490#msg-242490 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242490#msg-242490 Tom Henderson Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:01:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242471#msg-242471 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242471#msg-242471 I believe Jewel Tunnel also has a rat living in the warehouse besides the toads]]> James Zigras Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:39:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242469#msg-242469 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242469#msg-242469
Turns out I was responding to some old posts by "Anonymous User" in which he made references to you and God.

I didn't realize that his posts were from August.

They were at the bottom of the first page of the thread, and I got confused.

Sorry for wasting space inappropriately.

* And, Rock,

Do you still refer to yourself as "Chief Factotum" of Jewel Tunnel, and to your employees as "Toadies".

Don't mess with Bacteria Bart !!! He still has a memory !]]> Bart Cannon Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:20:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242461#msg-242461 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242461#msg-242461 James Zigras Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:54:28 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242433#msg-242433 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242433#msg-242433 Rock Currier Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:55:39 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242415#msg-242415 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242415#msg-242415
But there are many managers here who remove abusive messages, or messages from people who have been banned for abusive behaviour (such as 'Samuel' from Australia) -- it's not always me with my finger on the kill button.]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:40:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242414#msg-242414 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242414#msg-242414 James Zigras Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:39:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242413#msg-242413 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242413#msg-242413 James Zigras Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:36:35 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242406#msg-242406 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242406#msg-242406
Jolyon knows he is not God. Just Imperial Wizard of Mindat.]]> Bart Cannon Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:45:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242391#msg-242391 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,242391#msg-242391 Here's a link where I explained how to make a spinthariscope yourself:

[gemologyonline.com]

If you're interested in radioactive minerals, this is definately fun.]]> el cascaillou Analytical Techniques Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:08:28 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235810#msg-235810 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235810#msg-235810
I always return a gesture of love.

I made a mistake in my post. It was the White King Uranium Mine above Lakeview in the pit of which I took a swim.

In summer of 1970 Western Nuclear owned the mine. We hapless field workers were tasked with taking samples from the pit water from the middle of the little lake using poly-bottles. The managers told us to rent a dingy. We all decided it would be easier to just send me out there with the poly-bottle and my swim suit.

At the time I thought it was part of the prospecting program. I had never heard of CERCLA or SUPERFUND. I don't think they even existed at that time. We owe it all to Richard Nixon. That surprises most people.

If it was 1970 you and I could go for a swim and then collect from the high grade pile North of the pit.

Now we would be arrested for such behavior..

The White King was a noted location for meta-heinrichite. Most of the stuff I found in the high grade was more likely trogerite. Sometimes in nice crystals in the rhyolite lithophsyea. Or however you spell it. Lets just say vacuoles.

Bart]]> Bart Cannon Analytical Techniques Sun, 18 Sep 2011 23:42:56 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235793#msg-235793 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235793#msg-235793 Frank de Wit Analytical Techniques Sun, 18 Sep 2011 15:11:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235784#msg-235784 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235784#msg-235784
First off. The instrument you are all trying to think of is the SPINTHAROSCOPE. It was a small cardboard tube with a little mesh screen and a thin scintillator. After adjusting your eyes to the dark, you looked through the open end and could see swirling scintillations. It was included with every Gilbert Chemistry set back in about 1962. When they also included the stuff needed to make gunpowder in their chemical collection.

Human health studies are often nonsense since there is no way to create a control or to characterize extraneous life circumstances.

Let's start with me. I'm 61 years old. I've been told many time that I look pretty good for my age, and I have no aches or pains other than my left ankle which has stainless steel screws in it from an aborted collecting trip. But it's a rare day when I notice a little stiffness there.

I've worked in open pit and underground uranium mines for each summer of my college life, and then later when I made the mistake of becoming a mineral field collector. I know Moab. I even swam in the the arsenic / uranium soup in the pit at the White King Uranium Mine near Lakeview, Oregon. That's a superfund site. But it sure is pretty.

When it comes to uranium minerals...... my basement is SUPER HOT! though it's every so slightly drafty.

And I work in my basement from noon until 7 AM each day of the calendar.

I think I should be dead from radon exposure. But here I am. Hormesis anyone?

Lead and uranium have about equal toxicity when delivered to the digestive system. The difference would seem to be that uranium and its spawn radon damage the lungs. More than lead? Can anyone tell me?

Does anyone remember Dirk Pearson ? He and his wife claim that the secret to their vigor in old age is selenium.

I grind and polish umangite and klockmannite fairly often. They smell like dinner.

My main physical flaw is a slight belly which I attribute to vodka.

Winston Churchill drank two quartz, I mean quarts of vodka per day. I think he died at 84. Probably not of liver failure.

More likely heart attack, stroke, pneumonia, or one of the common cancers that will kill 95% of us.

I say life isn't worth living unless you can heft a Joachmitstal pitchblende in your palm.]]> Bart Cannon Analytical Techniques Sun, 18 Sep 2011 10:33:41 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235773#msg-235773 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235773#msg-235773
Bravo. good comments and good advice.]]> Anonymous User Analytical Techniques Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:19:26 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235769#msg-235769 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,235769#msg-235769
"Safety Precautions When Handling This Material

Davidite is a complex Iron, titanium, uranium oxide. This mineral is classed as an unrefined ore of uranium and is mildly radioactive. It is an alpha particle emitter – ie: the low level of radiation is easily blocked by a multilayered cardboard wrapping. While this is a mineral / rock sample that contains a small amount of uranium in its chemical makeup.
1. It WILL NOT cause a nuclear explosion, heavily contaminate you, give off excess quantities of radiation, render you sterile or any other myth associated with purified uranium.
2. It was formed around 1.8 billion years ago inside a natural rock – granite and has been eroded out over the years to produce these loose crystals.
3. IT IS NOT HAZARDOUS while left in its natural state.

Handling and Safety: Please dispose of the wrapping material in the usual manner – do not reuse or recycle. Do not ingest any part of the sample. Do not inhale sample in powdered form. When handling the sample, wash hands when finished especially prior to eating.
Storage: Allow adequate ventilation. This material has the potential to produce small amounts of radon gas, which when kept in an enclosed space may build up to hazardous levels."

As long as you know the correct handling and storage of these samples then there is no real hazard in keeping them in your collection. I would also appreciate any suggestions for ways to improve my safety instructions.]]> Trevor Dart Analytical Techniques Sun, 18 Sep 2011 06:18:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232835#msg-232835 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232835#msg-232835
I am afraid that you are misquoting my previous posts on this topic. Nowhere have I said that the risks of ionization radiation are too great and so owning radioactive minerals is a real peril. In fact, if you read carefully, you will see that my contention is that NORM, when handled and stored properly, poses very little or no health risk. You can purchase rat poison, which I'm sure that you will agree can be dangerous if not handled properly. Would you condone selling it to anyone, even minors, without providing some sort of information as to how it is potentially dangerous and how to handle it safely? I hope not. I have posted basic radiological safety information, on our website, with regard to safely owning and handling radioactive minerals, but feel that is not enough, hence the waiver. Consider that we have had numerous inquiries from school teachers and parents who want to purchase specimens for educational purposes. We have actually had parents try to purchase specimens for their “eight year old child's rock collection”. And, teachers who want to purchase specimens to "pass around in class" require some education, in my opinion. Aside from the remote possibility of liability issues, the aforementioned are the reasons that we have adopted a waiver policy for the purchase of NORM. It is a way of informing customers that this is a potentially hazardous material and that they should read the material that we provide and to be aware of what they are purchasing, before placing an order.

I will not post to this discussion any further, as misquotes, circular arguments and unkind comments are not pleasant, but more importantly they are not of any intellectual value. Perhaps we will form a better rapport in some future discussions of other subjects.


Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Analytical Techniques Tue, 16 Aug 2011 02:39:30 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232700#msg-232700 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232700#msg-232700
Wikipedia Radon

Listed was a Lucas counter which is an updated spintharscope

It would appear that you should check your TV screen]]> gord major Analytical Techniques Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:49:30 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232610#msg-232610 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232610#msg-232610 I quite agree with most of what you say - the world is radioactive, even our bodies are radioactive, its not a problem, but as Jolyon and others have pointed out, we can overdo it. I had the Health Department carefully check all our radioactive minerals and ore samples in our Geological Survey collection, and most were not a significant problem at all, except for one large uraninite. Management wanted them disposed of but I rebelled and got them put in a safe container out of reach of everyone. But we have a responsibilty to staff and visitors to take precautions to alleviate any dust or radon issue, if for no other reason that is if someone gets cancer they usually look for someone to blame, and if they see radioactive samples about, we are in the firing line. Most people can get very concerned about these and cannot be convinced they are harmless, so its best just to keep quiet and moderate any risk AFAP. And politely accepting their viewpoint and making conciliatory gestures usually works better than telling such people they are stupid.]]> Ralph Bottrill Analytical Techniques Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:41:11 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232607#msg-232607 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232607#msg-232607
But let us accept what Gene and Joylon are saying is true, that the risks of ionization radiation are too great and so owning radioactive minerals is a real peril. Why is Mindat accepting advertising dollars from vendors who sell such material and why is Gene’s company selling that material? I know Gene’s company requires a waiver but that is for the protection of the seller. The bottom line is this – if the risks are too great even if there is a tiny, tiny chance that a radioactive mineral might cause someone harm Joylon should not be sponsoring those vendors which sell such minerals and Gene should surrender all his stock to the NRC for disposal. You can't have your yellow cake and eat it, too."]]> Anonymous User Analytical Techniques Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:41:18 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232604#msg-232604 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232604#msg-232604 Ralph Bottrill Analytical Techniques Sat, 13 Aug 2011 04:52:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232588#msg-232588 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232588#msg-232588
I have not failed to realise that radioactive dust and radon in high concentrations might be a problem. In my earlier posts I addressed this problem by telling mindaters not to eat or inhale their radioactive minerals, but you deleted these remarks. I still have copies of this advice on my computer.

No one denies that accidental inhalation of particles of radioactive minerals “might” be a problem. It is still an area of considerable research and debate, and there are many factors involved apart from the inhalation of a single radioactive dust particle itself. I suggest a review of the literature on the use of depleted uranium as armour piercing bullets, which deals largely with the problems of uranium dust particles that defense force personnel might be exposed to. What we do not need is ill informed paranoia suggesting that an accidental sniff of one’s Autunite will cause lung cancer without doubt. You might recall the HPS dealt with the accidental sniffing of Autunite by a Geology undergraduate.

What you have singularly failed to realise is that the supposed “risks” from keeping radioactive minerals are not a simple one alpha particle kills all scenario. If treated with the same caution one uses with other minerals such as Native Arsenic, Orpiment, Realgar, Stibnite, Native Antimony, Galena and many others the dangers will be minimal at worst.

All my minerals are given the “shake and bake” treatment on arrival, and by that I mean I soak them in water followed by a thorough cleaning with liquid soap and a brush. Some are even cleaned in an Ultrasonic bath. Any particles of loose material and dust are thoroughly removed before the mineral is displayed.

And please Joylon do not be so demeaning of me. You are not God and anyway the position is already filled.]]> Anonymous User Analytical Techniques Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:55:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232559#msg-232559 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232559#msg-232559 > in France also feels owning a small collection of radioactive minerals is not a problem or a peril, well I
> will agree with them.

And did I not agree with this myself?

> A few small radioactive minerals in your collection won't be that harmful if you ensure you are not exposed to their dust.

What you have singularly failed to realise is that the main danger from keeping radioactive minerals is not the mineral itself (although I agree, keeping them under your bed is a bad idea), but radioactive particles (and to a lesser extent radon gas). Distance is critical as you have mentioned, and when particles are inhaled and in your lungs, the distance is zero, which is when even the tiniest particles can be of serious danger.

Many radioactive minerals are safe as long as you treat them with respect. But it's an extraordinarily bad idea to let people think they have no risk.

Jolyon

ps. Cinnabar is relatively non-toxic.]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Analytical Techniques Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:57:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232555#msg-232555 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232555#msg-232555
LOL]]> gord major Analytical Techniques Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:48:34 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232552#msg-232552 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232552#msg-232552
Please do not take me out of context, and please do not call my comment about owning radioactive minerals dangerous. The real danger lays in maintaining beliefs that have no basis in fact which is the main problem with the linear no threshold hypothesis. If an esteemed body such as the Health Physics Society in the United States and the Academy of Sciences in France also feels owning a small collection of radioactive minerals is not a problem or a peril, well I will agree with them. The real danger lies not in the low level of radioactivity these minerals possess but the way the knowledge is misunderstood and misused by those not so well informed or misused by the informed with hidden agendas. You might recall the serpentine scare that hit the Californian legislature a year or so ago. We know lead is a cumulative poison yet what about Galena, we know Mercury is toxic so what about Cinnabar; we know Cadmium is toxic so what about Greenockite, we know Antimony is toxic so what about Stibnite or Native Antimony. And no sane collector would eat them, but I know a lot of people who have no interest in minerals who firmly believe that these dangerous rocks should be banned also. The Health Physics Society in the United States has already given clear direction about owning radioactive minerals, exposure to radioactive mineral dust and radon emission and it is not a bad as Gene and others would have you believe.

I build Geiger counters and scintillator counters as well as Ham Radio gear and a lot of digital electronics and I can tell you it is easy to make things look worse than they are. Place an Americium 241 smoke detector source right next to a GM tube and watch the count rate rise rapidly, yet 4 inches away and you are struggling to get a reading much above background. If I put my large Uraninite right next to the GM tube the counts go very, very high but from 5 feet away you are again struggling to get a reading much above background. My 9x8x7cm Torbernite specimen from Rum Jungle does not even cause any increased clicks even when two feet away. Things only start to “heat up’ when it is about 1 foot away, but not too hot. If you want precise readings I can give them. The best defense against any form of radiation is distance.

And please Joylon do not be so demeaning of me. You are not God and anyway the position is already filled.]]> Anonymous User Analytical Techniques Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:34:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232534#msg-232534 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232534#msg-232534
I agree that natural radioactivity in most minerals is statistically irrelevant compared to background radiation levels. And some minerals which are samples of "radioactive minerals" actually have a lower natural radioactivity than some samples of minerals we would think of as harmless which happen to have small % of radioactive impurities, or are associated with a radioactive matrix.

A few small radioactive minerals in your collection won't be that harmful if you ensure you are not exposed to their dust. Having lots of large radioactive specimens in your home, or worse still breaking them up with a rock cracker (for example), is certainly NOT safe.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Analytical Techniques Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:25:47 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232533#msg-232533 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,232533#msg-232533
My posts were removed for reasons unknown to me too. The debate was about low level radiation and collections containing a few radioactive specimens. I am not talking about very large collections as might appear in a University Geology Department or the basement of an old Museum. Nor am I talking about people exposed to X-Rays or Gamma Rays on a daily basis, or those working at Nuclear Power Plants.

The debate on the real hazards of low level radiation will go on for decades. I am inclined to agree with the philosophy, findings and reasoning of Bernard Cohen and others, and reject the Linear No Threshold Hypothesis outright. The model is flawed and is really an administrative tool than a scientific one. There is overwhelming evidence to show the model is flawed, but not just flawed, very seriously flawed. But like religion belief in the hazards of low level radiation is a personal one, perhaps based on fear and misunderstanding, perhaps part of a hidden environmental/greenie agenda. So I am not here to convince you. All I can say is read the HPS responses and if you have any doubts or misunderstandings please put them to the HPS. Also put the questions regarding the Radon issue back to the HPS, but do not expect them to change their opinion or their findings. On matters of radiation I gave a good reference, chapters 4 and 5 of the book by Richard A. Mueller "Science and Technology for Future Presidents. It contains a wealth of practical information some of which even surprises Physics graduates. Allysson’s PDF was good but if you really want to see how the experts perform their calculations with lots of details given for the underlying assumptions please look at "Introduction to Health Physics" 4th edition by Cember and Johnson. I encourage Alysson to read this book also. So where does this leave us? For me I categorically reject the Linear No Threshold Hypothesis. I will gain great joy in handling and viewing my radioactive mineral specimens and I will continue to maintain my regular exercise program involving walking and serious weight training. According to the WHO obesity will rival tobacco smoking and low level radiation as the number 1 taker of life in the 21st century. To those people who collect radioactive specimens I congratulate and encourage them in their endeavours, and tell them they have more to worry about the size of their girth than the size of their collections.]]> Anonymous User Analytical Techniques Fri, 12 Aug 2011 09:59:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,229649#msg-229649 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,228633,229649#msg-229649
Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Analytical Techniques Fri, 08 Jul 2011 19:56:39 +0000