How to ID minerals http://www.mindat.org/msgboard-100.html Thu, 23 May 2013 15:24:02 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,217193,294535#msg-294535 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,217193,294535#msg-294535 I see that this is an old thread but anyway I' like to contribute a link to an downloadable EXCEL (TM) sheet concerning the identification of mineral fiber on EDX data (German, but understandible). It was designed by the G. Mattenklott for the identification of asbestos.

[www.dguv.de]

cheers
Gerd

Jared Freiburg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi-
>
> Does anyone know of any software out there to
> identify minerals from EDX spectrum? I'm using a
> Philips XL30 ESEM-FEG featuring EDAX light-element
> energy-dispersive spectroscopy (EDS).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jared]]> guest Analytical Techniques Thu, 23 May 2013 07:47:59 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293140#msg-293140 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293140#msg-293140 Brian Robin Analytical Techniques Sun, 05 May 2013 15:50:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293037#msg-293037 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293037#msg-293037 Alfredo Petrov Analytical Techniques Sat, 04 May 2013 12:19:55 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293034#msg-293034 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,293034,293034#msg-293034 Q - how best to remove the calcite?.]]> Brian Robin Analytical Techniques Sat, 04 May 2013 11:25:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292237#msg-292237 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292237#msg-292237 Rock Currier Analytical Techniques Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:42:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292236#msg-292236 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292236#msg-292236 It made me pause to consider how much a/ the forest service personnel may be on a power trip, as can easily happen, or how much abuse they may have already seen in coming upon areas where 'overzealous' collectors may have truly plundered a natural area. It would not look pretty to a non-collector. I'm not defending policies here, it is just a thought. I have been places where the people before me made it easy for me, and other places, harder, based on their conduct before I got there.
So, again, nice to see the resolve.]]> D Mike Reinke Analytical Techniques Thu, 25 Apr 2013 20:41:34 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292229#msg-292229 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292229#msg-292229 Matt Ciranni Analytical Techniques Thu, 25 Apr 2013 18:45:17 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292182#msg-292182 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292182#msg-292182 Jenna Mast Analytical Techniques Thu, 25 Apr 2013 02:32:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292164#msg-292164 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292164#msg-292164 David Von Bargen Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:45:20 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292162#msg-292162 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292162#msg-292162 No worries, I agree with you 100%. Not all public lands should be treated by the feds like National Parks, regarding collecting. But I do agree with the zero tolerance at the NPs and I got a little carried away in my post, sorry bout that.

With that said, want to read a well-written tale about gubmint over-reach? Check out "Tyrannosaurus Sue" by Steve Fiffer. I guarantee you will want to throw the book at the wall in disgust (several times) over what the feds did to Peter Larson, who collected the skeleton with "permission" from the "owner" who in fact mis-represented himself (and got in no trouble at all!). This is, granted, an extreme case, but Larson went to federal prison for I think 4 years for not being able to document that he didnt collect other (non-dinosaur) fossils on BLM land (not cuz of Sue, ironically). Never mind that rocks and fossils found on the ground dont come with receipts, they confiscated everything, no matter where it supposedly came from. The sympathetic jury that largely acquitted him called it "a glorified trespassing case". The hardened criminals he got to spend time with could not believe he was put in there with them for picking up a few rocks!
So having read this book, part of the unstated reason for my initial post was to simply warn people who may not be aware of the rules, as very bad things can happen to you by simply picking up the wrong rock on the wrong side of an imaginary line. Like it or not, the feds take their rules very seriously, some too seriously, I'm afraid.]]> Harold Moritz Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:28:10 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292161#msg-292161 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292161#msg-292161
Sarcasm aside, while we shouldn't encourage theft of a rock (or pine cone or bug or...) from a national park, it's not like the guy put explosives in a pressure cooker. I'm a well-know anal-rententive (or is that anally-retentive?), uptight, control freak, but even I'm not going to fuss about this rock.]]> Steve Hardinger Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:24:45 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292154#msg-292154 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292154#msg-292154
And I've seen a lot of bubbly agate like the piece Bruce Feldman inquired about out here on Idaho/Oregon BLM lands (to get us back on topic.) If his son does decide to "do the right thing" and returns it, he is welcome to come out here to our high sagebrush desert BLM lands and find all the bubbly agate he wants without any such moral quandry.]]> Matt Ciranni Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:08:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292145#msg-292145 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292145#msg-292145 To the original poster, Bruce, my comments were directed toward the possible action (if it occurred), not toward anyone's moral character. If I did not make that clear initially I apologize and please keep on posting things.

el cascaillou:
Agree 100%. There is much more to our natural heritage than the NPs and on other federal lands it is silly to create policies that just let the stuff rot. Most significant finds are made by amateurs, the federal staff dont have the time or budget to go look for them. National Forests are "Lands of many uses" as the signs say, and one use should include collecting and prospecting (and mining with the proper claim). Imagine what the loggers and stockmen would say if all the trees and grass in the NFs, for which there were created, were suddenly off limits? Those lands are for exploitation of resources.]]> Harold Moritz Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:55:34 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292141#msg-292141 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292141#msg-292141 However I can't help thinking of isolated fine crystallisations which are condemned to remain unseen until they disapear , only because the necessary protection rules are unfortunately being thought and applied blindly.]]> el cascaillou Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:48:50 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292137#msg-292137 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292137#msg-292137 -------------------------------------------------------
> Please read the words I actually posted, I said
> "National Parks".
> ......
[Big snip]
> So now you know something about me and I hope you
> see that I am (mostly) on your side, but I expect
> that none of you will apologize...

As always, Harold, you are right. So have a beer :)-D

Bruce, as a long-time lurker, you will know that there is greater aggregation of intelligence and specialist knowledge gathered here that is to be found in the average warp and weft of life. It's a little sad (but true) to note that high intelligence is frequently associated with some element of social disfunction. We recently even had a mini-discussion here on the meaning and correct grammatical treatment of the words 'anal' and 'retentive' when used in conjunction:-) But we are mainly harmless and try to be helpful. Welcome!]]> Owen Lewis Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:10:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292132#msg-292132 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292132#msg-292132
Collecting there has been, is, and always should be prohibited - they are protecting the geology for all of us to enjoy. What incredible selfishness that some would condone stealing say all the petrified wood laying around at Petrified Forest NP for your own collections! Attached is a photo of an in-situ pocket of calcite crystals. I could easily have collected or destroyed these crystals, but I took only a photo because I was happy and amazed to see them still preserved in place since the 1930s (still unweathered) when the trail was built. But I wont tell you what national park they are in because some of you apparently will go and ruin it for everyone else.

Also attached is a photo of a pile of gypsum crystals, one of thousands of such piles washing out of the mud and into a large delta of just gypsum crystal fragments. These can be seen, held, trampled, etc. on a ranger-lead tour of an otherwise off-limits area of White Sands National Monument. You can pretty much do whatever you want with them but take them with you. Why, because they are the source of the dunes. If they didnt wash out and weather into bits there would be no White Sands dunes. If they had all been picked up by collectors, there would be no dunes. So sometimes the weathering and destruction of crystals is critical to something else. I was grateful to be able to see this unique and thankfully preserved phenomenon, yet even here it is heavily trampled from many visitors. Go to the White Sands web site and see photos of how amazing the crystals look cropping out in areas where no one can visit.

I apologize if my initial email came across the wrong way, but when IS the time to point out what you all consider obvious? If it was so obvious why did many of you unfairly and inaccurately extend my comment to any and all places on Earth rather than just the National Parks I commented about? I know we are all frustrated by the many ways collecting has become restricted and/or overzealously prosecuted. But whenever I visit a national park I hear tales of how it used to be even better before collecting was restricted and people pretty much trashed the place. So I find myself sensitive to it.

You make me out to be some evil bureaucrat, but you dont know jack about me. Nothing could be further from the truth. I NEVER said that there arent other places where minerals, rocks, fossils shouldnt be collected to protect them from just the weathering etc. y'all speak of. I agree completely, in fact I have written my congressmen and senators several times in opposition to such restrictions on BLM land and National Forests (even though I never collect there). And two years ago I contributed to a mindat forum about an attempt by the New Mexico Parks division to end mineral collecting at, of all places, Rockhound State Park! I wrote letters to authorities there decrying the attempt, which eventually failed. Here's the link in case you think I'm just making it up: [www.mindat.org]
Here in Connecticut, there is essentially no federal land, and we are allowed only three places to collect on state land. For all the reasons you mention and more I've been working with the state to open up more places, so far unsuccessfully, but there is always hope.

So now you know something about me and I hope you see that I am (mostly) on your side, but I expect that none of you will apologize.....]]> Harold Moritz Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:57:07 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292090#msg-292090 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292090#msg-292090 John Kirtz Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 00:21:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292089#msg-292089 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292089#msg-292089 Rudy Bolona Analytical Techniques Wed, 24 Apr 2013 00:12:38 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292072#msg-292072 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292072#msg-292072
About 10 years ago an Indiana University graduate student, who happened to collect fossils, came across an unknown appearing specimen on the shores of Lake Monroe where all rock collecting including fossils and geodes is forbidden. He showed his find around, including to interested university geologists, but no one could help him identify it. It was sent off and described by an expert as a new invertebrate species and described in the June 2002 (?) issue of Nature magazine. The student was so proud he made the mistake of showing everything off to the local newspaper where it was prominently reported. A day or two later the Indiana conservation officers showed up at his door and gave him the options of "donating" the specimen to the Smithsonian or Indiana State Museum or being prosecuted. His specimen is now in a museum!

Conservation officers and the like all over the US are more interested in leaving important rocks and fossils to slowly decay underfoot rather than have them collected and preserved for study or display. RIDICULOUS. CHEERS......BOB]]> BOB HARMAN Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 21:42:39 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292069#msg-292069 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292069#msg-292069 Steve Federico Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 21:18:53 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292068#msg-292068 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292068#msg-292068
My pleasure, Bruce.]]> Jonathan Woolley Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 21:11:13 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292066#msg-292066 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292066#msg-292066 And if you're looking for nice people Bruce, stop on by the chatroom some evening.]]> Paul Brandes Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 21:02:59 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292062#msg-292062 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292062#msg-292062
Because some people are so politically correct they just can't help themselves. You will find a few of them scattered here and there on the net, its just part of the cost of "doing business". Its hard enough to get through as it is. So if your son stood up in said in civil protest. Yes I took the dman rock, put me in jail. Reductio ad absurdum. Who among us has not committed a crime by such standards knowingly or unknowingly. If Harold has a mineral collection I would bet that if we apply his standards of morality to it that much of his collection consists of stolen specimens, like they do in most collections. Anything in his collection from Tsumeb for example? If so should he not put it back too or perhaps go to jail?

[attachment 45136 NamibiaTsumebMineltttertoemployees197481.jpg]]]> Rock Currier Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:37:04 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292061#msg-292061 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292061#msg-292061
fossil and mineral protection is just plain stupid because here's what happen to an interesting specimen that wouldn't be collected and preserved into a collection: it will be weathered and turned into sand. Mineral matter is not making babies like live organisms. Environnemental protection people are just not educated enough to make the difference. Preserving our natural heritage is just not as simple as saying "nature should be left untouched" (wankers...). Any interesting mineral material that isn't studied or collected is just lost.
By the way, let's just prohibit making snowballs too.]]> el cascaillou Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:33:24 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292058#msg-292058 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292058#msg-292058 Bruce Friedman Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:21:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292055#msg-292055 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292055#msg-292055
I think that you have an agate nodule there. The color/texture is the spitting image of some of the Alpine area plume agates in buckets in my garage. When the agate nodules do not completely fill the voids left behind by gas bubbles in the magma from the volcanics in the area, the tops of the nodules tend to have that bubbly texture. If it were cut (or in this case if you were to find it worn into a cobble down the Rio Grande in a few millenia), you might see the typical black or red plumes coring that bubbly texture.

Look through the plume agate photos under Alpine, Brewster Co., TX and you'll see some resemblance. I have examples that look even more similar that I have personally collected. There would be nothing ususual about finding similar pieces in the Big Bend area.]]> Jonathan Woolley Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:59:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292054#msg-292054 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292054#msg-292054 Bruce Friedman Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292050#msg-292050 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292050#msg-292050 I never said anything about throwing the book at anyone. But saying nothing is agreeing with and tacitly encouraging the practice. It also violates the AFMS code of ethics, so I just suggested it be returned if actually taken. If everyone who went to our parks picked up a rock there'd be nothing left. I'm a geologist and I pay my taxes and entry fees and so I'd like to see those rocks exactly where nature left them. Imagine if everyone got to take home a stalagtite from Carlsbad Caverns NP, or petrified wood from Petrified Forest NP. These are just rocks, too, but where do you propose to draw the line instead of zero tolerance?]]> Harold Moritz Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:30:56 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292040#msg-292040 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292040#msg-292040 Matt Ciranni Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 18:42:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292030#msg-292030 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,100,292013,292030#msg-292030 Chill. I never said he collected it. He took a picture.I believe that is still legal in this country.]]> Bruce Friedman Analytical Techniques Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:45:44 +0000