About the auctions, if this is to work there should be some strict rules; rare species category should contain rare species not Calcite, Quartz etc. Display mineral specimens should show mineral specimens not the tumbled stones and carving rough, cutting stones and gems should be in the category provided for this only. Already this auction attempt looks worst than eBay. If it can be kept clean and to the subject it will bring in serious collectors, otherwise it will be a site for junkies to post their barbarous soliciting in a way telephone soliciting is done. I may sound very orthodox in my views but being to strict is better than anarchy. I believe that we could in the realm of minerals and fossils beat eBay by leaps if only we think straight and keep away from flea market attitude. So jump on the bandwagon and do some thinking. http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,182905#msg-182905 Thu, 23 May 2013 16:42:12 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,219091#msg-219091 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,219091#msg-219091 Rob Woodside Mindat Auctions Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:14:04 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,218954#msg-218954 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,218954#msg-218954 ) - they are not specimens! Please do something about it, it creates a mess.]]> Dawid Godziewski Mindat Auctions Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:58:02 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,218007#msg-218007 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,218007#msg-218007 only way to contact them) and have had no response. How am I supposed to rectify this if I can't contact the seller directly??? There are serious buyer protection issues here that need addressed!!!]]> Ron Cogar Mindat Auctions Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:40:10 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,215060#msg-215060 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,215060#msg-215060 Thanks everyone for posing these concerns.]]> Kristopher Dingfield Mindat Auctions Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:26:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214924#msg-214924 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214924#msg-214924 Richard Felicioni Mindat Auctions Thu, 24 Feb 2011 20:06:06 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214920#msg-214920 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214920#msg-214920 Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:11:25 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214916#msg-214916 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214916#msg-214916 Thanks,
Kris Dingfield]]> Kristopher Dingfield Mindat Auctions Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:26:20 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214191#msg-214191 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214191#msg-214191
Don S.]]> Don Saathoff Mindat Auctions Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:44:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214178#msg-214178 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,214178#msg-214178 Michael Beck Mindat Auctions Fri, 18 Feb 2011 23:00:28 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,191351#msg-191351 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,191351#msg-191351 Van King Mindat Auctions Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:20:01 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184382#msg-184382 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184382#msg-184382 > towards the continued costs of the site. No one ever said anything, or acted apon such a great idea.

You never suggested this to me! One would think I was probably the right person to suggest this to ;)

In general, the idea of donations to support mindat.org, be they collections, books or just as importantly copyrights on articles, books etc, on death would be something I would absolutely support.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Thu, 27 May 2010 12:50:47 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184381#msg-184381 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184381#msg-184381
A while back when a thread was started up concerning what to do with our unwanted collection, I offered to donate my entire collection to MinDat apon death, where it could be sold (auctioned) with all profits going towards the continued costs of the site. No one ever said anything, or acted apon such a great idea. Anyway to late now, my collection is going to a museum where it will probably sit in boxes out the back and collect dust.]]> Craig Mercer Mindat Auctions Thu, 27 May 2010 12:05:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184369#msg-184369 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184369#msg-184369 Rock Currier Mindat Auctions Thu, 27 May 2010 09:06:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184337#msg-184337 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184337#msg-184337
I generally alternate in my spare time between work on mindat that is of purely information work and things that could help with mindat (and my own) future financial success - this includes other projects semi-related to mindat (such as minfind.com) and things which are entirely unrelated (such as allworldjobs.com). I'm just started some work which will help improve mineral pages (after the work i did previously on locality pages), so after this is done the auctions (and revised mindat page sponsorship) are next on the agenda.

The future of mindat is secure financially, obviously I'd like it to be in a position where it could bring in enough money for me personally that I could devote a much greater percentage of my time to it - in the long term auctions will be one part of this, but there are other areas too, and what I don't want is to be sucked so much into running the auctions that I have no time left to continue to grow the information side of the site, which is really where my interest lies.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Wed, 26 May 2010 20:52:33 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184324#msg-184324 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184324#msg-184324 Though your heart may not be with the auction part off mindat (that is also not my main interest), I think most of us realize that if Mindat is to have long term viability and grow into what we would all like to see it become, you do need to concentrate, when possible, on the portions of mindat, like the auction that are going to bring it long term sustainable income. I for one would encourage you to concentrate on these areas of the website, and the auction is one of those areas along with advertising and of course outright donations and gifts. Once the financial side is addressed, then we can all go off and play all we want. Have you thought of trying to set up an endowment fund, the proceeds of which can be used to fund Mindat activities?]]> Rock Currier Mindat Auctions Wed, 26 May 2010 19:33:32 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184251#msg-184251 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184251#msg-184251
>I would much appreciate a listing by where the specimens are (not just where they originate).
>The reason is simple - shipping costs. (I would love to bid on Australian minerals, but the
>shipping raises the bar a bit too high.)

Very good idea - these are the sorts of ideas that can help make the auctions work right. I'll add it close to the top of my auction to-do list.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Wed, 26 May 2010 10:10:06 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184241#msg-184241 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,184241#msg-184241
1. Like some others, I find hidden reserves a hindrance, and would like to know immediately if I can be competitive (without insulting the dealer with a too-low bid!) When I encounter a hidden reserve, I look elsewhere.
2. The categories can be very helpful, but I would much appreciate a listing by where the specimens are (not just where they originate). The reason is simple - shipping costs. (I would love to bid on Australian minerals, but the shipping raises the bar a bit too high.) I also appreciate Dana's comment about charging actual shipping costs, rather that a high, flat fee. (The sellers I dealt with did that, and it kept the cost down.) This is simple to do with internet access to postal rates.
Many thanks, and I do look forward to future auctions. Becky]]> Becky Coulson Mindat Auctions Wed, 26 May 2010 06:53:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183911#msg-183911 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183911#msg-183911 Matthew Barrand Mindat Auctions Sun, 23 May 2010 06:42:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183902#msg-183902 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183902#msg-183902
A very interesting conversation! Many good points and some that frankly I just don't get. I've only listed three items on mindat and all received multiple bids and I was happy with the final price reached on each item. I guess that I just don't put a whole lot of thought into the process. I try to upload several very good and representative photos that are not photo-shopped so as to make the specimen look different than actuality. This is my biggest gripe about mineral dealer websites. I also give a fairly lengthy (for mindat) description of the specimen along with full locality information. I do not gouge on shipping---why charge $5.00 for a rock that can be sent for $2.50? Again, another one of my peeves. Lastly, I ship everything right away and I pack items carefully.
It seems that there is little interest in most of the mindat auctions. But I've also noticed a dramatic decline in the number of hits that specimens are getting in my eBay auctions as well. Some items that would get 100 hits are now getting 30-40. There is definitely a decline in general traffic though I've noticed that my items are increasingly being purchased by the same band of 15-20 buyers. I don't mind as I would rather good rocks go to good homes and good people that I've come to know. There has been a general bias against buying specimens on auction sites within the mindat conversation history. Some people definitely have been burned and many outright swindled (not here, but on eBay, etc) and are hesitant to buy again. That's to be expected. But a number of collectors expect to get $100 rocks for $6.00 and hence the reserve price insertion.
I used to start virtually all of my auctions on eBay at 99 cents but I actually did have a $100 rock go for $6 (fortunately it went to one of my regulars!) and have now switched almost exclusively to the Buy-it-Now format. I would like to see this added to mindat auctions. I also would love to be able to see feedback from buyers and sellers. And I would like to see the mindat management team to have the right to move items into proper categories, remove bogus items entirely and, in general, have the right of final authority on all auctions. I, too, am disturbed by the loose use of words like "rare" or "museum quality," etc. Lastly, I really want the mindat auction and sale site to work as I would much rather contribute a portion of my sales to mindat than to eBay! I'm on mindat every day and appreciate the enormous amount of work and time that has gone into making this the world's most trusted and valuable mineral resource. Sure, there are still some warts but we must all understand that it is a work-in-progress.
In the meantime, I will continue to add a rock or two every now and again to the mindat auctions. It seems to me that my regular customers on eBay are largely unaware of mindat despite the fact that I have a link on an eBay page directly to the site. A fair number use mindat regularly as I do and also love the site. Still others liken it to a good mineral show that is gradually being turned into a flea market. There are some characters out there that detract a bit from the site but, unless they are excessively obnoxious or belligerent, there is probably not much that can be done.
In the meantime, I will check the auctions regularly (I have two bids on items right now!) and will add more items to the auction as time allows. Thanks to Jolyon and his team for this remarkable web resource. The auction service is a minor part of the overall experience and I would like to see it grow so that we can toss a little coin into the mindat coffers.

Dana]]> Dana Slaughter Mindat Auctions Sun, 23 May 2010 02:38:01 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183888#msg-183888 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183888#msg-183888
and Debbie thanks for your comments. I haven't bought anything from the auction yet. Whenever a good specimen is listed it unfortunately fall outside my theme. And yes the auction is still a baby and needs to grow; and that needs feedback and criticism.

I'm strongly intersted in the success of this auction as it allows a private collector to sell his/her specimens directly to another collector and thus reduce cost. As your collection grows there are bound to be doubles,ones that no longer fit your theme etc. A dealer would only pay half or less the going price. This auction has the potential to get a better price for the seller while letting the buyer have it for less than the going. A fair bargain for both. This can also be a good forum for field collectors to sell excess. Yes, I know, field collector seldom let go their stuff. Thats because they are offered nickles and dime.]]> sharath Mindat Auctions Sun, 23 May 2010 00:27:08 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183881#msg-183881 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183881#msg-183881
As a buyer myself, I hate hidden reserves and choose not to use them. I believe the starting prices on my listings were quite fair based on what I would be happy to let the specimen go for. In most cases, this price was considerably lower than what a full-time dealer would offer for a similar piece. But 25% lower is too low. Most items sell with only one or maybe two bids, so essentially the site isn't really functioning like an auction. I'm not sure if this is related to the low number of potential bidders, the amount of poor quality material, or other reasons, but the end result is that with one bidder, the starting price is a "buy it now" price.

Lastly, after contacting the buyer to arrange for payment and shipping on two sold items (not included in the above 16), I never heard back from the buyer. Why would someone bid on a specimen if they didn't intend to complete the transaction?

I have no problem with the proposed changes to the site as I already adhere to the proposed rules, but I would like to see the feedback issue addressed.

Michael Shaw]]> Michael Shaw Mindat Auctions Sat, 22 May 2010 21:20:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183868#msg-183868 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183868#msg-183868 Donald Slater Mindat Auctions Sat, 22 May 2010 17:44:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183830#msg-183830 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183830#msg-183830
No, too many security implications for me to deal with.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Sat, 22 May 2010 00:33:09 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183825#msg-183825 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183825#msg-183825
Will we be able to do our own web hosting of photos & html descriptions ?

:)]]> Debbie Woolf Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 23:22:35 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183824#msg-183824 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183824#msg-183824 Keep up the hard work, I would love to see this devolope as mindat has.
As soon as my new camera comes in, I plan on listing some pieces.
Adam K]]> Adam Kelly Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 23:20:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183823#msg-183823 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183823#msg-183823
:)]]> Debbie Woolf Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 23:15:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183820#msg-183820 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183820#msg-183820

> 1. Eliminate the hidden reserve since it is perceived as a waste
> of time to potential bidders.

I'm starting to agree with this. Sellers like the reserve feature, but bidders universally hate them. Perhaps we should try removing it for now.

> 2. A "Buy me now" capability would help.

I wasn't particularly keen on doing this before, but it is (apart from your point 1) the most requested addition - I think we may need to add it.

> 3. Too many poor specimens have a much too high starting price (if they do not have reserve).
> Remember that this is an auction and the starting prices should be low. It seems that too many
> sellers use the retail price as their starting price.

This is the problem of running auctions for free, sellers have no risk so can price things ridiculously. Other than charging for the auctions (which we're not ready to do yet) I'm not sure how we'd deal with this.


> 4. When an item is fairly priced, high shipping costs can double or trebble the final price.
> Sellers with multiple listings should consider consolidating shipping charges to reduce the
> per item shipping costs if a buyer buys multiple items.

I would expect all sellers to combine items and consolidate shipping charges whether they say this in their conditions or not, in fact (unlike ebay), I may make it a condition of sale in the future that sellers agree to this. On ebay people use this as a way of getting round paying ebay their commissions, and I don't want that here! Plus, it's unfair to the buyer.

> 5. Since buying based on a photo can be risky, a return policy would help. If a seller is
> not willing to give a full refund, he/she should realize that the asking price should be much
> lower because of the risk to the buyer.

For auctions the risk is always with the buyer - if you dislike it, then that's too bad. However, if the item is sold as a Mumbojumboite and it's really just quartz, (ie the description is significantly inaccurate) then a refund should be given. Similarly if it is damaged during shipping a refund would be appropriate (alternatively you could negotiate a partial refund).

For 'buy-it-now' style auctions, full distance sale rights would apply, which would mean you have the right to a full refund if the specimen is returned within 10 days of receipt.

The official policy that we will support is that sellers should refund specimen cost PLUS the original postage costs to ship the specimen out (regardless of whether the reason for return was incorrect description or just because the customer didn't like it), however the seller does not have any obligation to refund the cost of returning the specimen to the seller - this should be borne by the buyer and should be done in no less of a secure way than the original specimen was sent (so if it was sent to you by recorded delivery, that's what you should use to send it back).

If however the fault was the original seller (for example, he sends the wrong specimen, or significant damage was not described), then I would expect the seller to make good the return postage cost as well. HOWEVER, where it is something that would be regarded as an 'honest' mistake (and most mineral misidentifications would come under this category), the dealer would not be obliged to refund the cost of return.

These will be a minimum requirement from all sellers who participate in mindat auctions. These rules are not yet in place, but they will be soon. Sellers may of course offer greater guarantees to their customers (ie always offering to refund return postage cost), but that is up to them.


> 6. Many mindat folks are serious collectors and expect to see good photos of good or rare
> specimens at competitive total prices, including shipping. I do not believe that junk or average
> specimens of common species will sell on Mindat.

They may sell if the starting price and delivery cost are reasonable - but I agree it's not really what the auctions are for.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 23:01:32 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183819#msg-183819 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183819#msg-183819
1.very poor quality minerals

2. very poor quality minerals

3. photos are very small, you need to go into each on every page individually to look at the larger image. needs more time. a waste of time when a large fraction of the listings are actually junk.

4. no clear-cut policy : return/ shipping charge / where will it be posted from

5. appears the forum has been taken over by trash dealers rather than private collectors. pre-payment will not only make money for mindat but ask drive away the unscrupulos elements.

6. reserve price should be disclosed.

7. extent/nature of damage or incompleteness of crystallization should be clearly noted. Other sellers have to compulsorily state "No damage" or "Complete crystallization". Other wise, a cube in photo may actually be a wedge in real; also damages absent in photogenic face may be present on the pheriphery.

opinion:

1. you should expect sellers to list at very low price. you cannot expect him/her to incur loss.but the start price/reserve should be reasonable say 25-50% of retail. or there should be a buy it now price or a page where specimens can be sold for fixed prices rather than

2. may be users (even if they are not buyers) can be allowed to comment on listings. this way bad listings will get thrashed. people can comment on the quality of the minerals/ price. this will serve as a means for moderation.]]> sharath Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 22:50:41 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183800#msg-183800 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183800#msg-183800
1. Eliminate the hidden reserve since it is perceived as a waste of time to potential
bidders.
2. A "Buy me now" capability would help.
3. Too many poor specimens have a much too high starting price (if they do not have reserve).
Remember that this is an auction and the starting prices should be low. It seems that too many
sellers use the retail price as their starting price.
4. When an item is fairly priced, high shipping costs can double or trebble the final price.
Sellers with multiple listings should consider consolidating shipping charges to reduce the
per item shipping costs if a buyer buys multiple items.
5. Since buying based on a photo can be risky, a return policy would help. If a seller is
not willing to give a full refund, he/she should realize that the asking price should be much
lower because of the risk to the buyer.
6. Many mindat folks are serious collectors and expect to see good photos of good or rare
specimens at competitive total prices, including shipping. I do not believe that junk or average
specimens of common species will sell on Mindat.

It seems to me that some sellers have tried to unload their poor and not saleable specimens on
Minat at retail or higher prices. That is bad for Mindat and I believe that had a lot to do with many
people loosing interest in the auctions. John S.]]> John Sobolewski Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 19:00:01 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183772#msg-183772 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,102,182905,183772#msg-183772 Donald Slater Mindat Auctions Fri, 21 May 2010 16:05:23 +0000