My Christmas/Birthday Present I received a very neat present for my birthday/Christmas this year, a Canon MP-E 65 lens. This lens, at its least magnification is a true 1:1 macro lens, meaning the subject's size and the size on the camera's sensor is in a 1:1 ratio. The lens goes up to a 5:1 ratio. I thought I would share my experiences with learning how to use this lens. I am a novice photographer and have never owned a macro lens before, so this is all new to me. The subject I started out with (my very first shots so you can see where I am starting from) is from Sugar Grove, West Virginia, USA. It is an analcime coated vug with a calcite crystal inside. There are balls of nontronite scattered throughout the vug. When the vugs are opened, the nontronite becomes black. But before being exposed to air or light, however, the nontronite is blue - as can be seen when it is included in the calcite. I took 3 pictures at each of different magnifications, for a total of 12 pictures. I kept the best picture at each magnification. I used a Canon EOS Rebel T1i. I used a tripod with a sliding macro mount. And for lighting, I used 3 desk lamps crowded around the micromount (LOL!!). Here are the shots: [pic id=433134 width=600 float=left]This picture was the lowest magnification I could take[/pic] [pic id=433135 width=600 float=left]This picture had more magnification[/pic] [pic id=433136 width=600 float=left]This picture has even more magnification[/pic] [pic id=433137 width=600 float=left]This final picture was the highest I took[/pic] I should point out that the final picture was not the highest magnification available on the lens. But it was the highest magnification I could take given the lighting conditions. As I added more magnification, the lens got closer to the specimen. That closeness and the distance through the lens that the light traveled conspired to lose enough light that the desk lamps were simply not enough. I had to keep the shutter open long enough that my focus was not as sharp as I wanted. I may need to remedy that :-) For those of you that take offense at poor photography please excuse these first attempts. I am still learning and have decided not to do any post processing of these pictures other than white balance and 20% sharpening. no cropping, no color twiddling, no clean up, nor other enhancement of any kind. I know I need to figure out much with respect to setting up the shot, lighting, editing and probably a dozen other things. Advice for improvement is welcome, but help such as this sucks and doesn't belong on mindat won't be terribly helpful. But the real purpose of sharing these pictures is that I have not seen anything definitive in mindat about this lens. I am not really qualified to review it, but I can take some pictures and share more as I learn. Thanks Bob http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,246775#msg-246775 Thu, 23 May 2013 06:53:03 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247669#msg-247669 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247669#msg-247669
FOV about 4mm©

FOV about 4mm©

FOV about 4mm©

The photoshopping I did was limited to color balancing (based on a white card) and cropping.

Thanks
Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Tue, 03 Jan 2012 05:38:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247666#msg-247666 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247666#msg-247666
I took these pictures using the rear LCD as a way of visualizing the crystals. I used the 5x magnification of the LCD to do fine focusing. I then took the pictures while in the LCD mode, so I think I avoided the shutter vibrations.


FOV about 1 cm©
FOV about 4 mm©


FOV about 4 mm©
FOV about 3 mm©


I am interested in feedback about how to improve. One things I am noticing right off is that the 3 mm shot is not as sharp as I would like. I suspect this is because of the exposure time and vibrations. I did take the pictures with a 2 second delay to dampen any vibrations from pushing the camera's shutter button. I know that eventually I should hook up my laptop and do it that way, but to do so will require rearranging my room.

I also know the black spots are in the pictures, I left them in deliberately so you could see them :-) I ordered Giotto's "red rocket," which seems to be recommended by several web sites. Hopefully that will resolve the problem.

Thanks!
Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Tue, 03 Jan 2012 03:55:28 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247659#msg-247659 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247659#msg-247659
Second curtain sync works well on my still functional Canon 10D, and 2 seconds over 1 second exposure time is just being paranoid. I am also using Canon MT-24EX dual macro flash, but using off-camera flash mounts to better position the flash heads.]]> Jeff Weissman Mineral Photography Tue, 03 Jan 2012 02:38:33 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247652#msg-247652 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247652#msg-247652 Justin Case (2) Mineral Photography Tue, 03 Jan 2012 00:03:53 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247650#msg-247650 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247650#msg-247650
Regards
Steve]]> Steve Sorrell Mineral Photography Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:57:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247642#msg-247642 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247642#msg-247642 Is this going from Live view (Car Crash) mode with front curtain sync, or
from normal view, front surtain sync?
What about the flash exposure (percentage)?

Interesting, I thought it might only be on the ones with the barn doors for mirrors.

Most vibrations, as seen in a few tests published, die away in the first tenth second or so. One second seems to be OK, I haven't done careful tests. Maybe you're right, 2 seconds would be better.
I do worry about this sort of thing ... Are we being paranoid enough??


I think apologies are due to Steve Sorell - this topic had been thoroughly hijacked!
Ok, Steve did you know that if you can find a few adapters to put a teleconverter ( which is of course a negative lens) on the front of your MPE-65, you can get it to focus at much lower magnification than 1:1. Google for "Lord V" and his observations on that.]]> Justin Case (2) Mineral Photography Mon, 02 Jan 2012 22:44:26 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247618#msg-247618 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247618#msg-247618
Quote
Justin
You can avoid the shutter first curtain vibration when using flash, (C or N) by using Rear Curtain Sync for the flash, in a darkened room, with say a 1 second exposure doing nothing, then the flash at the end. This is the only way on a Canon too - you can't use Flash at all with any Electronic First Shutter Curtain mode, on any Canon.

I noticed a notable improvement in sharpness after switching to this method, but I am using 2 second exposure just to allow all vibrations to dampen out. The key is a camera and flash unit that allows for manual mode and second curtain sync on the flash.]]> Jeff Weissman Mineral Photography Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:17:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247571#msg-247571 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247571#msg-247571 I'd be interested to see how the new 1DX(?) does it.

If you Aren't using Live View then in both (Canon Nikon) cases it's worth using mirror lockup of course.
There's no "silent mode" equivalent on any Nikon, On the Canons, you have different methods on different models, to invoke it. Going from Live View is easier than digging into the Custom Settings - depending on the camera somewhat. LV locks the mirror AS WELL in effect.

Perhaps surprisingly, if you're using flash at high magnification, then it is also worth using mirror lockup - depends on the camera and the flash duration. With a Full Frame (Canon or Nikon) and a full flash at around 1000th, it's easy to show a difference. Smaller format and flash operating at 1/32nd power, (1/32,000th of a second) then I would very much doubt it would be possible to see anything much!
You can avoid the shutter first curtain vibration when using flash, (C or N) by using Rear Curtain Sync for the flash, in a darkened room, with say a 1 second exposure doing nothing, then the flash at the end. This is the only way on a Canon too - you can't use Flash at all with any Electronic First Shutter Curtain mode, on any Canon.

Simply using Live View on a Canon then, means using long exposures. If you take the image out to a larger screen (tethered, or a separate HDMI monitor), expand the view, and can't see ANY vibration, all is well, But that depends on the building you're in and the floor you're on and how rigid your "rig" is. Nothing is ever 100% still!

Canon makes things slightly more un-straightforward in other ways too:- you can't use rear-curtain sync with a non Canon dedicated flash, and if you use the Infra Red Remote, Canon won't let you have Mirror Lockup!
Nikon don't have those (particular) interactions so life is simpler - though some models may differ from mine.]]> Justin Case (2) Mineral Photography Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:14:24 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247543#msg-247543 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247543#msg-247543
Doug]]> Douglas Merson Mineral Photography Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:44:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247435#msg-247435 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247435#msg-247435
If you can tell an image is “sharpened”, then it's been done wrong.
There's a good argument for something around 80% at 0.8 pixel radius unsharp mask, to put back some of what the low-pass filter in the camera, and the MTF curve of the lens, took out. You really do get to see more detail – if the lens is up to it.
Also, if you use a large radius, say 30 pixels, and a much lower degree of sharpening, perhaps 15%, it can do a lot to clear down the "haze" you often get in the shadows, from stacking.
Use Smart Sharpen for "Lens" blur not "Gaussian" blur and "Less precise" to help avoid any fringeing from sharpening - something I hate to see.
Best quality Jpegs don't have any artefacts to get worse in sharpening. Canon's Jpegs (best on eg Rebels) aren't all quite that good, but you have to look really hard to see it. (100% on screen at least). Nikon's algorithm is a bit better - no sign of anything. (I use both and am not religious about them. They each have "best" points.)

Having said all that you need a top lens to get anywhere near sharpness at a few pixels level, at high magnification. If you're only looking at ( or showing, as here) the image 1000 or 2000 pixels wide then you're using what, about 2 megapixels worth! At that size, most that sharpening is really doing on a typical image is altering contrast. Anything from jpeg compression of the original size will be long gone if the image has been shrunk by 4-5 times.

The "Spots" across your stacked image are from dust on the sensor. They do move around! (Spots on the lens lose you contrast, is all, usually.) "Dust bunnies" are a major problem with stacking (I have a 650 image stack running at the moment, and I forgot to check the sensor first... :-X ) If you look close you'll possibly see one spot per exposure, per trail, and probably in a curve as the stacking aligner shifted the image about.
Some stacking algorithms (including the most useful) are worse than others for dust trails.
At 5x magnification your lens, if used at a marked f/4, is effectively f/24. Any smaller and you'll just get blur from diffraction, on anything like an APS 15MP sensor. You see dust spots at small effective apertures - or very small effective apertures. Take a low iso photo of a neutral blank thing (out of focus is good) at your smallest aperture, shutter timed as long as it takes to get a light/mid grey overall. You can move the camera about to make the exposure even across the frame. A marked f/32, say. (If you want to be nasty to yourself, a marked f/32 on a long bellows!!). Then look at the image at pixels level, and you'll probably be horrified. I was. (If the camera's newish, and the dust doesn't blow off, it's likely to be oil spots - I would (now) send it back for cleaning if it happened again to me.)
They only show at tiny apertures because you need a sharp "shadow" of the dust ( which is on the sensor's filter) on the sensor itself, behind it.

Oh – you don’t need to use a Canon "tethered" to get the Electronic Front Shutter Curtain. It's easiest really to just go from Live View. (It doesn’t work either way on a 60D, by the way, they still shake!!)
I've reverted to flash though, with wooden floors I get sharper pictures that way, when using high magnifications. On my Nikons with jack-hammer full frame mirror, that needs Mirror Lockup as well :).

Oh - a SPLENDID Christmas present, by the way, one reason for going "Canon"! Beatable, but not by much, and only with a lot of money and more than one lens.]]> Justin Case (2) Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 22:59:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247418#msg-247418 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247418#msg-247418
I can't explain why your black spots move with the different lenses. More thought required on this one. However, I find it hard to believe that the spots are caused by anything on the lens. Nothing that is on the lens should be in focus at the focal plane. In fact, if you put an obstruction in front of the lens, the result should be a little less light and resolution. But, you will not see an image of the obstruction. For example, consider a catadioptric lens, with a large central obstruction.

Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:26:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247403#msg-247403 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247403#msg-247403
When I stack with this lens, the black dots become long black lines. These are much harder for me to edit out than the few black dots which I currently am editing out when I take pics. So, I need to wait to hear back from Canon to see what the accepted method is of lens cleaning. Since it is brand new, I don't want to do anything that will void my ability to return the lens if there is a problem.

Thanks
Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:12:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247401#msg-247401 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247401#msg-247401
You may be able to go up an f-stop or so without any/much degradation of the image. Some degradation may be apparent at the pixel level but may not be bad at all in reduced images that are suitable for the internet. Still, that will only give an incremental increase in DOF. You may want to consider the multi-focus technique, which can synthesize any amount of DOF required. You are correct that every improvement incurs a cost, or tradeoff. Multi-focus comes at the expense of technical complexity and time invested to make a better image. So far, I still haven't had a free lunch...have you? :-S

Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:01:11 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247318#msg-247318 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247318#msg-247318
Unless you don't have Tuesdays on your calendar then as J said - Never on Tuesdays either!!.
Better to do it if you only sharpen on the third full moon in the month (i.e the one that occurs after the Blue Moon) !!!:-D

Cheers and Happy New Year - think I'll start early !! :)-D

Cheers]]> Keith Compton Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 02:39:56 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247313#msg-247313 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247313#msg-247313
Gene - I read somewhere a while back that unsharpening is preferable to sharpening. Not that I had a choice. The menu option is listed as Sharpen (Unsharp Mask), and when you undo, shows as Undo Blur Image.

Regards
Steve]]> Steve Sorrell Mineral Photography Sat, 31 Dec 2011 00:24:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247307#msg-247307 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247307#msg-247307
As fa as the angle, I played for awhile and the above is an improvement :-) The crystal is in a slight indentation in the matrix. If I angle upward enough, I lose depth of field. The loss will cause me to play with the f stop or iso, which I think will degrade the image in a different way. I think one of my first lessons has to do with each improvement also costing something. Choose which evil you want.

Thanks Steve and Gene!

Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:50:02 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247306#msg-247306 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247306#msg-247306
Your second image shows horrible JPEG artifact sharpening. I much prefer the first! The background quartz is unnatural on the second.]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:45:54 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247305#msg-247305 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247305#msg-247305
That's a nice image! Am I correct in assuming that it is a 3/5 crop of the original? The only improvement that I can suggest is to either shoot at a different angle or get rid of some of the obscuring matrix. The latter may end up being a disaster, so I only mentioned it and did not recommend it.

Steve,

Why would you want to unsharpen you image?

Cheers,
Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:44:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247303#msg-247303 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247303#msg-247303
Also, take a copy of this shot and sharpen, then look at the two images side by side. You should be able to see what Jolyon wrote about.

I don't fully agree that you should never do anything, but look at the results before you decide what to keep. A little unsharpening can be beneficial and still look natural. But try it on a copy, always keep the original. Here's a quick shot taken this morning of an Elmwood fluorite with sphalerite. The first as is, the second with a slight unsharpening. I use Sagelight for most photo editing. There is a free version (Lightbox) with very basic capability. Sagelight is only in the $50-60 range though and gives me all the capabilities I want.

[attachment 35684 1338-fluorite-elmwood-9mm.JPG]

[attachment 35685 1338-fluorite-elmwood-9mm-u.jpg]

Regards
Steve]]> Steve Sorrell Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:24:03 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247301#msg-247301 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247301#msg-247301
Here is a new shot with a FOV of about 3mm of a Red Cloud Wulfenite. No sharpening was done!

Red Cloud Wulfenite. FOV 3mm©


I think I should work on the micromount a bit. Some of the matrix is obscuring my ability to get a full shot. But I would be interested in peoples comments - how do I improve?

Thanks
Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:53:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247297#msg-247297 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247297#msg-247297
Just to be clear. That's NEVER.

Why? Because it just makes a nightmare mess with the compression artefacts. It looks horrid.

Your camera will automatically run a sharpening filter (to compensate for the filters in the camera and the way the pixels are built from separate R, G and B elements) if you are saving as JPEG, critically this is done before the image is compressed as JPEG.

Be happy with the end results and never mess around with sharpening. Never.

Thank you :)


If your camera saves as RAW files, then you may be able to use sharpening, but ONLY if you turn off the automatic sharpening option when you import it into Adobe Raw - You can then do sharpening on the image when it's converted to RGB inside Photoshop, Unsharp Mask is often used for this.

However.... in my experience converting to RGB and then doing Unsharp Mask doesn't usually work as well as letting Photoshop do the sharpening in the Adobe Raw loader - which is done before it is converted to RGB.

So. Unless you're an advanced Photoshop and Digital Image wizard who knows what they're doing with raw images, please avoid using sharpening functions at all!


Many people think a sharpened image looks "nicer". In fact, it just looks artificial. Because it is.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon & Katya Ralph Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 21:24:38 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247292#msg-247292 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247292#msg-247292
those small bits of dirt are probably dust on the sensor - I found that a good quality sensor cleaner, and inspection of the sensor to verify cleanliness, with a microscope, is needed to get rid of them. They are mostly a problem at highest magnifications]]> Jeff Weissman Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 19:46:58 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247277#msg-247277 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247277#msg-247277
I was going into proper photoshopping after I got the basics down. Right now I am battling with what appears to be very small bits of dirt somewhere. They only show up under 4:1 and 5:1 but they do show up as black dots. Now to find and eliminate them so I can try other ideas I have.

Steve what do you do for sharpening? I see there I not just a percentage but radius as well.

Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:12:59 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247223#msg-247223 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247223#msg-247223
The one I use now is a commercial product and folds up neatly into a unit a bit bigger than a briefcase (see photo). It also sits on our dining room table nicely, much to the annoyance of the boss!

You only need the big one if you collect Andrew-sized rocks!

Bob - 1 question - why sharpen 20%? That seems a bit extreme.

[attachment 35675 DSC04220.JPG]

Regards
Steve]]> Steve Sorrell Mineral Photography Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:08:19 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247105#msg-247105 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247105#msg-247105
The light box i was speaking about is as follows. Constructed from light metal box frame and white acrylic side sheeting. The bottom/back is one sheet on a curve from the top edge to the bottom front edge. This give a graduated white to grey background and I use a piece of black cardboard for a dark background. The lights are run of a singe big transformer where I can turn on as many or as few lights. I am not sure where Steve got it from but I think the light box is a commercial product...


© Andrew Tuma



cheers Andrew]]> Andrew Tuma Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:04:39 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247103#msg-247103 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247103#msg-247103
You should get a copy of Scovill's photography book from The Min Record or Min Research Co - it will give you a great deal of camera hints, irrespective of the camera being used.

And remember at least with digital you can take hundreds of pics until you get it right without costing an arm or a leg if you were using film.

Happy snapping

Cheers]]> Keith Compton Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:46:33 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247100#msg-247100 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247100#msg-247100 Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:36:27 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247099#msg-247099 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247099#msg-247099
My fingers didn't type what my head was saying. The 23.3mm, in the first line of my post, should say 22.3mm, like in the calculations. It has been corrected. There is nothing like an error, when trying to correct an error, to further confuse. :-)

I think that you are going to have a lot of fun with that lens!

Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:29:19 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247098#msg-247098 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247098#msg-247098
1x = 22+ mm
2x = 11+ mm
3x = 7+ mm
4x = 5.5 mm
5x = 4.2 mm (I really can't call it 4.5, but what's 3/10 of a mm)

So, I guess I was wrong with my measurements of the datolite, sorry everyone! Thanks for the cross check Gene! Why, if the sensor is 23.3mmX14.9mm would 1x lose a mm and become a 22.3 FOV? The ruler says 22 or so, therefore I can't disagree, just puzzled.

I will fix the FOVs in the picture, but not the message above (else future readers will get confused about this discussion)

Thanks Again!!!
Bob]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:11:19 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247095#msg-247095 Re: My Christmas/Birthday Present http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,13,246775,247095#msg-247095
I got so interested in the numbers that I failed to mention, that is a very nice Xmas present!

Gene]]> Mineralogical Research Company Mineral Photography Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:35:55 +0000