For abstracts of new minerals, discreditations, new information, CNMNC actions. http://www.mindat.org/msgboard-14.html Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:44:07 +0000 Phorum 5.2.8-RC1 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161254#msg-161254 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161254#msg-161254
Chris is correct in saying that this paper was published on the GeoScienceWorld service for the October issue (it went live on Friday of last week; it was accepted at the end of August). The Society has invested in a 'publish ahead of print' service in the hope that it will serve to get material online as quickly as possible. At present we don't have a 'publish ahead of print' service on the Ingenta platform (referred to by others in this thread as the "MinMag" page), hence the difference in what is presented. As soon as all of the papers for October are complete, they will be posted on the Ingenta service.

One point to note: all individual members of the Society subscribing to the journal are entitled to access MinMag on both the Ingenta and the GSW services. To access MinMag content on GSW go to www.minersoc.org (the Society website homepage) and click on "login" on the left-hand side. You'll need to register the first time you use the service. Please contact me - Kevin Murphy (kevin@minersoc.org) if you need any assistance.

Regular readers will be aware that MinMag has been running behind schedule for some time. We're working hard at completing the catch-up; hence the closeness of the August and October issues. Membership for 2010 costs £33 and for e-access to the journal a further £20 - so excellent value. (For non-members, you can also join up online!)

Sincerely

Kevin

Kevin Murphy
Executive Director, Mineralogical Society]]> Kevin Murphy IMA Status Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:15:53 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161056#msg-161056 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161056#msg-161056 en.wikipedia.org]
Will update page.]]> Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:55:23 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161052#msg-161052 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,161052#msg-161052
Why the mineral is named nyholmite?

Thanks.]]> Armand Dutroux IMA Status Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:50:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,161050#msg-161050 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,161050#msg-161050
Protomangano-ferroanthophyllite is larger than haga....woite and is terrible!I am prefer more original names than very boring systematic names.

Nickeltalmessite have nice photos in the RRUFF project but with the name IMA 2008-051.RRUFF forgotten the real name of the aproved mineral or present the same dubs about the nomenclature will be use?

Thanks!]]> Armand Dutroux IMA Status Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:48:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160978#msg-160978 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160978#msg-160978 Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:16:17 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160900#msg-160900 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160900#msg-160900 Stuart Mills IMA Status Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:18:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160866#msg-160866 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160866#msg-160866
Yeah, it's quite annoying that GSW is always faster with the issues - as a Mineralogical Society member I have to wait until I can download PDFs from the Min. Mag. homepage... (someone correct me if I am wrong).]]> Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:02:18 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160860#msg-160860 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160860#msg-160860 Jim Ferraiolo IMA Status Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:08:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160858#msg-160858 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160858#msg-160858
Probably even the authors haven't got their e-copy yet.!!!!!!!!!!

Chris S]]> Chris Stanley IMA Status Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:37:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160851#msg-160851 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160851,160851#msg-160851 • Elliott, P., Turner, P., Jensen, P., Kolitsch, U., Pring, A. (2009): Description and crystal structure of nyholmite, a new mineral related to hureaulite, from Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia. Mineralogical Magazine, 73, 723-735.

Abstract:
Nyholmite, Cd3Zn2(AsO3OH)2(AsO4)2·4H2O, from the Block 14 Opencut, Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia, is a new Cd-Zn arsenate species, isostructural with the minerals of the hureaulite group. The mineral occurs in a quartz-garnet-arsenopyrite matrix as white globules, tufted aggregates of fibrous crystals and radiating hemispheres of thin, colourless, bladed crystals. Associated minerals are goldquarryite, lavendulan-sampleite, scorodite-strengite and gypsum. Individual crystals are up to 0.2 mm in length and 0.05 mm across. The mineral is transparent to translucent with a vitreous lustre. It is brittle with an uneven fracture and a white streak. The Mohs hardness is 3-3.5 and the calculated density is 4.23 g cm-3 for the empirical formula. Electron microprobe analyses yielded CdO 34.58, ZnO 9.72, MnO 3.59, CuO 3.39, Al2O3 0.20, CaO 0.16, PbO 0.37, As2O5 34.55, P2O5 6.29 totalling 92.85 wt.%. The empirical formula, based on 20 oxygen atoms, is Ca0.03Pb0.02Cd2.80Al0.04Zn1.24-Cu0.44Mn0.53[(AsO4)3.13(PO4)0.92]4.05H1.91·3.79H2O. Nyholmite is monoclinic, C2/c, a = 18.062(4) Å, b = 9.341(2) Å, c = 9.844(2) Å, β = 96.17(3)°, V = 1651.2(6) Å3 (single-crystal data, at 123 K). The six strongest lines in the X-ray powder diffraction pattern are [d(Å),I,(hkl)]: 8.985,30,(200); 8.283,85,(110); 6.169,25,(111); 4.878,25,(002); 3.234,100,(2, 420); 3.079,65,(222, 511); 2.976,45,(113). The crystal structure was solved by Patterson methods and refined using 2045 observed reflections to R1(F)= 3.73%. The structure is characterized by a kinked, five-membered chain of edge-sharing M6 ( = unspecified anion) octahedra, or pentamer, that extends in the a direction. The pentamers link by sharing corners to form a sheet in the (001) plane. Pentamers are also linked, via corner-sharing, by (As,P)O4 groups forming thick slabs in the (001) plane. The slabs link in the c direction by corner-sharing between octahedra and tetrahedra to form a dense heteropolyhedral framework. Moderate to weak hydrogen-bonding provides additional linkage between the slabs.]]> Marco E. Ciriotti IMA Status Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:18:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160774#msg-160774 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160774#msg-160774
Why not add some new 'clase's to the nomenclature - hagawagawoowooclase is an even better name!

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph IMA Status Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:29:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160772#msg-160772 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160772#msg-160772 Rob Woodside IMA Status Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:24:50 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160743#msg-160743 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160743#msg-160743
What a great name hagawagawoowooite is for a new Australian species.]]> Laszlo Horvath IMA Status Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:50:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160707#msg-160707 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160707#msg-160707
But as for "all nomenclature decisions were based on mineralogical logic"... that seems to be a rather questionable statement, given the numerous examples of questionable logic already raised and beaten to death in this and many other threads, making it unnecessary to repeat them all here. If there is in fact a "mineralogical logic" applied to nomenclature, then we need to do a much better job of communicating its structure to the public, and indeed to other mineralogists (some of whom are currently just as upset as I am about some of the recent gratuitous changes).]]> Alfredo Petrov IMA Status Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:58:59 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160644#msg-160644 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160644#msg-160644
???
Any experienced mineralogist with an excellent overview on the presently known minerals, their classes and their chemical and structural relationships IS a taxonomist (e.g, Ernie Nickel, R.I.P., and many others).
What exactly do you mean by "background in taxonomy"? - I wasn't aware one can study this...
And I am sure all nomenclature decisions were based on mineralogical logic (not necessarily collector's logic).]]> Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:35:11 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160634#msg-160634 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160634#msg-160634
Firstly, A concern in this case (as already mentioned) is the similarity between Nickeltalmessite and Nickel rich talmessite or nickeloan talmessite - There is something to be said about having completely different names for end members of a series so that there is no confusion as to which dominant end member is present should someone care. For example if a person tells me I have a arsenical pyromorphite, I know I have a pyromorphite with a bit of Arsenic in it, and converseley when someone says a phosphatian Mimetite, the speciation is obvious. But were someone to say i have a nickel talmessite, I must admit I might go....ummm, do you mean a nickel rich talmessite? or a nickeltalmessite? Its just not the most friendly sort of nomenclature.

Lack of consistency from the IMA regarding the suffix nomenclature is annoying from a logical point of view, but in reality does it really matter?

Actually in my opinion in some instances it does, but often only when nomenclatural changes get more complex as our understanding of the science changes, and names become entrenched because we are adverse to changing them. Personally I am particularly amused by the small group of minerals that have names like "Yttrotungstite-(Ce)" - What a classic blunder of nomenclature! - If I were to find an end-member composition of this material - I might be quite confused when i realise that it... contains no yttrium!

Its instances like this where nomenclatural rulings and the understanding of the science change after the original name was proposed that lead to awkward confusion, One way of getting around this is the suffix nomenclature and by leaving chemicals OUT of the main name entirely - that in my opinion is where the value in chemical suffix's are - but even then who knows where nomenclatural changes might take us in the future. There is no crystal ball - perhaps every mineral should ideally have names that give no idea about the chemistry at all!!!

Anyway - just thinking out loud.

Mike

P.S - This could even happen with minerals that are not part of the REE-nomenclature - eg Kaliborite, I could imagine a scenario where someone finds an Na equivalent and it gets called Kaliborite-(Na) or Natrokaliborite, but ideally contains no Potassium - This is where the IMA must be careful as a name could become actively confusing.]]> Mike Rumsey IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:40:53 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160624#msg-160624 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160624#msg-160624
When a small committee makes a decision, there ought to be a period allowed for discussion and comments, feedback from professionals in related fields, before the decision becomes permanent. That way, some rather silly decisions could be avoided before they become written in stone.]]> Alfredo Petrov IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:56:34 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160623#msg-160623 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160623#msg-160623
What I think is entirely unnecessary is renaming minerals in certain groups because someone feels new names are somehow 'better' in describing the mineral's composition and relationship with other minerals.

Why do names NEED to describe the composition or relationship? What does Epidote-Pb offer as a name that Hancockite didn't in terms of scientific merit? Any reference work on hancockite, or website, will say that it is a member of the epidote group and a cursory glance at the structure and composition, even to amateurs, will show the relationship clearly.

A name is a name is a name. If the authors want to call it nickeltalmessite because of the relationship with talmessite then that's fine. If they want to call it hagawagawoowooite then that's fine too, it's up to them. Names don't have to have any special meaning!

All that's happened is that we've now got official names at odd with decades of use of the older names in references. A real step backwards for absolutely no scientific benefit.

Let's call a halt to renaming of historical minerals, except when a group is being redefined structurally/chemically (eg the regular amphibole redefinitions) when there's a valid reason to do it.

And let's rename things back the way they were before, please!

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:44:17 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160618#msg-160618 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160618#msg-160618 However, in the lack of strict guidelines on nomenclature to be scrupulously adopted for all mineral groups, each research team (including the ad-hoc CNMNC subcommittees) may prefer to tailor nomenclature to each specific case.]]> Marco E. Ciriotti IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:26:56 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160617#msg-160617 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160617#msg-160617 Alfredo Petrov IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:24:32 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160612#msg-160612 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160612#msg-160612 Each case / mineral group is to be considered separately.]]> Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:09:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160599#msg-160599 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160599#msg-160599
Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:57:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160590#msg-160590 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160590#msg-160590
One of the best things that they can do is to undo the Epidote-Pb and restore the rightful name of Hancockite. That was a really, really bad decision.]]> Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:45:07 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160589#msg-160589 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160589#msg-160589
Epidote-Pb certainly wasn't suggested by the original authors of hancockite!!!

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:36:26 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160579#msg-160579 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160579#msg-160579 Anyway some other "nickel" prefixes exist:
Nickellotharmeyerite
Nickelskutterudite
Nickelschneebergite
Nickelzippeite]]> Marco E. Ciriotti IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:27:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160576#msg-160576 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160576#msg-160576 Uwe Kolitsch IMA Status Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:04:04 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160488#msg-160488 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160488#msg-160488
very kind!
maurizio dini]]> maurizio dini IMA Status Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:20:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160483#msg-160483 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160483#msg-160483 Ciao.]]> Marco E. Ciriotti IMA Status Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:02:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160479#msg-160479 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160479#msg-160479
this is definetly means that now Nickeltalmessite is a new mineral, and NOT a variety of Talmessite rich in Ni ??

thanks for your coments
Maurizio Dini]]> maurizio dini IMA Status Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:49:07 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160475#msg-160475 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,14,160475,160475#msg-160475 NICKELTALMESSITE, Ca₂Ni(AsO₄)₂.2H₂O — A NEW FAIRFIELDITE-GROUP MINERAL FROM BOU AZZER, MOROCCO

ZRMO 138(4), 32-39(2009)

A new mineral of the fairfieldite-group, nickeltalmessite Ca₂Ni(AsO₄)₂.2H₂O has been found in association with annabergite, nickelaustinite, pecoraite, calcite and a mineral of the chromite-manganochromite series on a dump of the Ait Ahmane mine (Bou Azzer district, Marocco). The new mineral forms botryoidal aggregates consisting of split individuals up to 10 x 10 x 20 mkm in size. Color is apple-green, streak white. Brittle, Mohs’ hardness 4, cleavage perfect on {010}. D_meas = 3.72(3) g/cm³ (volumetric method), D_calc = 3.740 g/cm³.
Wave-numbers of absorption bands in the IR spectrum are (cm^–1;s—strong band, w — weak band, sh — shoulder): 3100sh, 2885s,2410, 2300sh, 1760w, 1540, 977, 910sh, 865s, 844s, 803s, 530w, 434s. Weight loss on heating in vacuum from 24° to 500 °Ñ (heating rate 4 °Ñ min–1) is 8.03 %. Under the microscope nickeltalmessite is colorless, nonpleochroic, optically biaxial positive, alpha = 1.715(3), beta = 1.720(5), gamma = 1.753(3), 2V_meas = 80(10)°, 2V_calc = 60.4°. Dispersion is not observed. Chemical composition (electron microprobe, mean of 5 local analyses, wt %): CaO 25.92, MgO 1.23, CoO 1.08, NiO 13.01, As2O5 52.09; H2O (determined by the Penfield method) 7.8, total 101.13. The empirical formula, based on (AsO₄)₂ is: Ca_2.04(Ni_0.77Mg_0.13Co_0.06)Ó _0.96(AsO4)_2.00.1.91H₂O. The idealized formula is Ca₂Ni(AsO₄)₂.2H₂O.2H2O. The strongest reflections of the powder diffraction pattern [d, Å (I,%)(hkl)] are: 5.05 (27) (001) (100), 3.57 (43) (011), 3.358 (58) (110), 3.202 (100)
(020), 3.099 (64) (0-21), 2.813 (60, (-121), 2.772 (68) (2-10), 1.714 (39) (-331). Unit-cell parameters refined from
powder data are: 5.858(7), b = 7.082(12), c = 5.567(6) Å, alpha = 97.20(4), beta = 109.11(5), gamma = 109.78(5)°,
V = 198.04 Å3, Z = 1. Supposed space groups is P1or P-1. The mineral was named for its chemical composition,
being the Ni-dominant analogue of talmessite. The holotype specimen of nickeltalmessite is deposited in the
Fersman Mineralogical Museum of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia, registration number
3750/1.]]> Jim Ferraiolo IMA Status Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:08:19 +0000