Howdy! For many years now I've had a great example of an Australian Selenite crystal cluster in my collection. I wonder if any Down Under folks here can educate me as to where these are mined and how they are formed? I'm talking about a thin plate with numerous crystals sticking out top and bottom, so that it looks like it formed as a mineral layer on standing water. I've always thought it was some sort of cave formation, but info I've found on the internet seems to indicate these are from actual lakes. Given how many of them are being sold on ebay, it doesn't seem to be cave formations. Any help? http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,46525#msg-46525 Thu, 23 May 2013 04:49:31 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276717#msg-276717 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276717#msg-276717 Steve Hardinger Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:42:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276712#msg-276712 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276712#msg-276712
I am not having a beef at anyone, I merely asked a question, to which your answer thus far appears, by that of public records to be that of a lie (until proven different by SARIG/PIRSA).
Even the papers you have posted on facebook do not prove any different.

While you may have lodged an application for a mining lease, the mineral claim MC 3443 is and has been since expired since 6th January 2005. It was also only approved as of 7th January 2004, meaning any, and all material you may have removed from the site prior to this time and since has in fact been removed illegally according to the Mining Act! If the minister has cleared those specimens removed during the period of the MC, then I stand corrected on my previous post, stating 'all'. However I would have thought, if such was the case you would have posted proof of that with the other documents you posted, I guess we will know soon enough.

Yes, you are correct, I have not met nor dealt with you in anyway, and until this changes, I have no personal opinion of you. I am only putting forward the facts as per public records.

I have been fighting hard to fix the attitudes of property owners and the like in this state regarding fossicking for some time now. Many of whom will not allow fossicking due to bad experiences with people entering and removing minerals without permission or under false pretence.
In some cases, this has been done under the guise of either an EL or MC, and not a mining license. If you feel I am having a beef at you, then maybe you are guilty of something. If you have done nothing wrong as you claim, then my posts should not upset you at all, they are only clarifying facts.

And, in regard to knowing how the system works, my father and his partner have a mine in Coober Pedy, and I worked on their application process. So yes, I know how it works!]]> Mark Willoughby Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:17:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276711#msg-276711 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276711#msg-276711 Re crystals coming out of a HCl acid bath while cleaning Rum Jungle Malachites
Crystals appeared over night
Beautiful green rosettes similar to gypsum formation
David Sheumack indicated that they were mostly likely copper lead chlorides or something similar
Unfortunately they were left out over night and after a light rain only a green smudge was left
Can't upload it from my iPad]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:08:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276710#msg-276710 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276710#msg-276710 I wasn't offended. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I objected to you using this forum to spread your false accusations and innuendos. It has no place here because the question was what caused the color in the gypsum not whether you feel you were ripped off. I am sure you received my response to you PM so I will not reiterate what I said but you keep spouting on about signed affidavits but as I said, signed affidavits are only as good as the people who signed them and I know as least one of the people you are referring to and I definitely would not believe or trust anything he signed. Yes I know all about Amy and Gunter who are good friends and as I said above this is not the forum for you to spread false accusations and rumors. I have known Rob for almost 20 years and know him well so I know better. From all that I have read here, I think the saying about people who live in glass house not throwing stones applies.]]> Donald Slater Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:04:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276705#msg-276705 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276705#msg-276705
Now back to the original topic, in regard to the formation of gypsum and halite.

The basics...generally, when 80% of the water content has evaporated gypsum will form, once evaporation reaches 90% halite forms.
Obviously there must be the corect percentage of salts precent in the water to start with, or neither forms.

Many of our inland lakes in Australia are renown for gypsum specimens but often only rarely do they produce halite.
While halite does occur, there are two factors helping to prevent it, first the level of fluorine is considered low in many of these lakes, second cool night air condensates on the lakes daily, not allowing the full 90% evaporation to occur. Some of these lakes are also below sea level, allowing an easy pooling area for cooler moist air!

This cool night air and condensation also means there is a level of moisture retained within the soil, often retained only a few inches under the ground surface, even in periods of drought, thus the 90% mark is rarely ever reached. The 80%-90% range though is normal, thus allowing the perfect conditons for gypsum formation. This is how the large clear plates found throughout Australia manage to be formed.]]> Mark Willoughby Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:31:26 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276704#msg-276704 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276704#msg-276704 That's better and clarifies numerous points
Have a great day]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:29:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276703#msg-276703 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276703#msg-276703
I have emailed Jolyon requesting guidance re posting , without a response

So here goes
Gerry
I have no idea what your are talking about re "humble rock man" or "educator "
Please enlighten me

Your posts are vexatious and ad hominem (new word for the week)
It is my by my good grace based in a call from Sergent Ross Andrews of the Victorian Police prior to you appearing in court
,Indicating that a criminal covincfion would prevent you from travelling to USA or China
, that I agree to allowed them to reduce the charges against you .


For your sake I will try to improve my spelling and grammer ., not sure whether my iPad with comply to this though .
But those of you that use a iPad while laying in bed may better understand the issue of words being changed by iPads

I have ADHD , my mind moves at a hundred miles per hour and I skip read
I also regularly destroy very expensive reading glasses when I move rocks around
So now I use $2 ones
So my apologies to those hate bad spelling

On a different note Gerry have your realised that you have ADHD as well
This is not a dig at you. But a general observation

This is the last reply I will make to your emails
Enough has been done and said

I prefer not to lower myself to your level of debate]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:22:59 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276700#msg-276700 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276700#msg-276700 Also if anyone wants a copy of all 158 pages I have a copy on pdf, it is also free from SARIG or PIRSA.

1.7.2011—Mining Act 1971

Part 1—Preliminary
1—Short title
This Act may be cited as the Mining Act 1971.
6—Interpretation


fossicking means the gathering of minerals—
(a) as a recreation; and
(b) without any intention to sell the minerals or to utilise them for a commercial
or industrial purpose,
but does not include the gathering of minerals by any means involving disturbance of
land or water by machinery or explosives;
the Land and Valuation Court means the Land and Valuation Court constituted under
the Supreme Court Act 1935;
machinery means any device operated otherwise than by muscular force exerted by
the operator;
marine park has the same meaning as in the Marine Parks Act 2007;
mine means any place in which mining operations are carried out;
mineral land means any land that is mineral land in consequence of a declaration
under this Act;
minerals means—
(a) any naturally occurring deposit of metal or metalliferous ore, precious stones
or any other mineral (including sand, gravel, stone, shell, coal, oil shale, shale
and clay); or
(b) any metal, metalliferous substance or mineral recoverable from the sea or a
natural water supply; or
(c) any metal, metalliferous ore or mineral that has been dumped or discarded—
(i) in the course of mining operations or operations incidental to mining
operations; or
(ii) in other prescribed circumstances;
but does not include—
This version is not published under the Legislation Revision and Publication Act 2002 3
(d) soil; or
(e) petroleum or any other substance, the recovery or production of which is
governed by the Petroleum and Geothermal Energy Act 2000;


Part 12—Miscellaneous
74—Penalty for illegal mining
(1) A person who—
(a) mines; or
(b) sells, or disposes of, minerals recovered by him in the course of mining
operations, or utilises any such minerals for a commercial or industrial
purpose,
without being duly authorised by or under this Act shall be guilty of an offence.
Maximum penalty: $250 000 or imprisonment for 2 years.
(1a) A person who encourages, or procures the commission of an offence under
subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence.
Maximum penalty: $250 000 or imprisonment for 2 years.]]> Mark Willoughby Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:57:09 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276699#msg-276699 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276699#msg-276699
Sorry but what's your beef with me .
I don't believe we have ever met or dealt
As you must realise all mining applications etc volumes and regular reporting
Work , ,ground disturbance and even disposal of material collected
The Minister and or the department can authorise disposal of all material collected from the site .
The application of this process is to ensure the mineral rights are secured , a process adhered to under the act
It's is very easy for you to validate my statements as you suggested you would do so
please do so or don't comment until you understand the facts
You post tenement maps and jump to the conclusion that I have mislead the group without checking your facts properly .
And what concern of yours is it what I do or how I manage my minerals rights .
Please ensure you understand what up write before you publish
It's 6.30 in the morning here
And I have a large number of. Emails to attend daily

The lease has had very limited production since I took it over
Due to the volume of theft that has occurred

In Bolton in Victoria
Just by entering the pondages and removal of specimens stirs up the mud and mud becomes included in the crystal structure and cavities
Destroying the aesthetic value of the specimen, I regularly consent to fossickers to collect from my leases for personal use
But ask that they only collect from the edges of the lake .

It would be nice to see Mark peg his own lease , manage it , pay all the fees native title compensations , public liability ,
Cost of oversite , and then have people steal from it

With all due respect Mark , please butt out unless you have something verifiable or valid to contribute
It's tall poppy syndrome]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:47:25 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276694#msg-276694 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276694#msg-276694
Tom, in regard to the sale of minerals from a Mineral Claim (which is all MC 3443 actually is), the Mining Act of South Australia states;

1.7.2011—Mining Act 1971
Prospecting for minerals—Part 4

Part 4—Prospecting for minerals

25—Rights conferred by ownership of mineral claim
(1) A mineral claim confers on the owner of the claim an exclusive right, subject to the
provisions of this Act—
(a) to prospect for minerals in the land comprised in the claim; and
(b) to carry out such other exploratory operations on, or in respect of, the land
comprised in the claim as are approved in writing by the Director of Mines;
and
(c) to apply for a mining lease or a retention lease in respect of the whole or part
of the land comprised in the claim.
(2) A person shall not remove from the area of a mineral claim minerals, or soil and
minerals, exceeding a mass of 1 tonne unless authorised to do so by the Director of
Mines.
Administrative penalty.
(3) The ownership of a mineral claim does not confer any right—
(a) to sell or dispose of any minerals recovered in the course of mining
operations; or
(b) to utilise any such minerals for any commercial or industrial purpose.

Thus Tom, under the current Mining Act of South Australia, each and every specimen you have sold, have for sale or intend to sell, is in fact a breach of the law!

As to the state of your current application, I am yet to receive word as to it's validity and status.]]> Mark Willoughby Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:13:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276672#msg-276672 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276672#msg-276672
We're not even interested to know what you're (note the correct spelling? it's YOU'RE not YOUR) doing but business must be bad if you have time to keep writing this drivel. I'm retired now so I don't have time for anything else.

99% of people I talk to don't like you or trust you. I don't blame them.

There's no way you're going to clean your name or reputation by trying to discredit others. Best way to start is to become a reputable dealer and pay people you owe money too. Like Clement who is currently doing it tough! I noticed you ignored this.

In NT all minerals belong to the Crown until a legitimate MINING claim or lease is granted.

In NT, EL holders are not permitted to sell anything taken from an EL. It is taken for testing. The prehnite taken from your EL (if it really came from your EL) is being sold and there are receipts from your company for the purchase of some of that prehnite from the TJ Mine, Wave Hill. According to my research there is no other legitimate prehnite mine in NT other than the one held by Crystal Universe. It was only BIZARRE that Crystal Universe was granted a Mineral Lease ONLY because you missed out!

You just were not smart enough. You can't get anywhere by bullying.

Fossickers now have a bag limit in NT. So how do you explain the 10 or more tonnes that you have for sale?

The Crystal Universe Lease was obtained legitimately but I don't need to tell you anything about it.

I have a history with NT Mines Department dating back to 1970's when I assisted the BMR geologists at Batchelor.

With regards to Tasi, you never had a partnership with the Phelan's. You forget what you told me when I worked for you!

To Trevor, How are you? G'Day Ralph.

Finally, If you don't peg a lease and mine legitimately and mine and sell specimens etc. you are breaking the law. So, how many deposits do you mine illegally, Tom? Well, you said it!

How are the pseudonyms going, Tom? They may all emanate from your camp.

Say hello to 'Humble Rockman'. We know who you are, as well as 'Educator'. What a load of cowards.

Gerald Pauley.
When the last question is answered.............. the illusion ends. Gerald Pauley 1997.]]> Gerald Pauley Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:53:11 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276653#msg-276653 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276653#msg-276653 Let you know , if its successful and they accept my 12 month old application
Due to the unprofessional nature if certain people , I am reluctant to declare further info .]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:42:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276651#msg-276651 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276651#msg-276651 Ralph Bottrill Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:37:27 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276649#msg-276649 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276649#msg-276649 Western Australia and NSW have no such restrictions ,
Is that specifically for Tas ?
Each state has it own mineral groupings , classification and documentation process .
Recently fossickers at Agate Creek were prohibited from selling or advertising Queensland agates
Northern Territory allowed a dealer to pegg a exploaration and then mining license over a fossicking reserve , that was quite bizarre
Particularly as they removed 40 tonne for resale .
Often Mine department staff don't even understand or misinterpret their own legislation,
no inference on Tasi Mines dept .
I currently have had a mining lease application held in reserve for 12 months as the department is unsure how to proceed .]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:19:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276647#msg-276647 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276647#msg-276647 Ralph Bottrill Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:59:15 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276641#msg-276641 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276641#msg-276641 I had one of my tenement officers call the department today to verify the mineral rites are still held by me over the West Lagoon Mine since
2003 till now
We're you able to confirm this as well ?
I would appreciate an independent verification to the group , to support the claims and documentation that I posted as being legitimate .
Thanks very much Tomk]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:46:50 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276632#msg-276632 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276632#msg-276632 With regards to exploration leases , it varies state by state , not sure of South Australian legislation as I have held any in Sth Aust
Western Australia allows ownership as does Tasmania , and Vic
Queensland and NT do not , but allow sampling to occur ,

As far as secret locations go , if its great best to pegg it , but when you do you end putting an x marks the spot and open yourself up to theft .
Get a group of people together and do a joint project .
Land holders , land access , native title , conservation and land management CALM and public liability are really limiting the ability to collector
And getting a lease seems to be the most effective way
Patrick Gunderson , and Deanne Mc Glaughlin have produced wonderful specimens over the last few years

Unfortunately the mining industry around the world is full of claim jumpers and thieves , it just that they don't air their dirty laundry in public .
In Lightening Ridge and Cooberpedy they solve this problem with a few careful dropped sticks of TNT when night raids occur
So the problem goes away very quickly , it's not so easy here .]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 07:03:55 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276629#msg-276629 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276629#msg-276629 This issue also came about with the Vaughn case in the mid 1990 's
Where they repatriated fossil specimens from Japanese Collectors , using search warrants .
If the South Australian museum (SAM) wants it , they can take it when ever they want regardless of where it is located
Early last year or the year before , I was culling my meteorite collection and had a broken 20 gm piece if Cook meteorite
which my wife put on eBay for around $40 dollars , I acquired this 20 years earlier from Ausrox for about the same price .
This specimen of Cook is a H5 chondrite , and the museum has about 40 kgs of the main mass
Another Meteorite dealer , who has since died , called the collection manager Ben Mc Henry and told him I was selling it
Ben and I had a run in over the honesty of the South Aust Museum , with regards to raids on collectors and my very public accusations on Radio
regarding the museums hypocritical attitude to this very issue .
So as you could imagine , Ben saw a great opportunity to get back at me .
He emailed me and demanded I return the 20 gm specimen .
I replied politely and informed him that I was happy to donate it back to the museum , if he could explain to me how it would add the the valueo f their collections knowing that
they held tens of kgs in storage
No response was received , but eBay delisted all my meteorites inc W.A meteorite as stolen items .
I then called Dr Alex Bevan director of WA Muesum who has always made himself available to talk and he informed me that he received a call from Movable Cultural Heritage in Canberra regarding this matter . And that while he was not concerned , he was aware of the involvement of others .
On contacting the staff member who's name I was provided at the department, she immediately denied any knowledge , until I referred to Alex and my conversation .
She stated he made no right to have used her name .(Movable Cult Heritage , generally takes this approach of denial particularly when their actions are illegal or misguided)
To make a long story short , after a few heated emails with (SAM) , Dr Alan Pringe seeming to be the only one at the museum with common sense ,
requested I write a letter to the board , whom in good faith conceded ownership to me.
And this was for insignificant meteorite.
Ebay relisted all my meteorites and I donated the offending specimen to Museum of. Vic .]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:48:39 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276628#msg-276628 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276628#msg-276628 IMO
Best,
EMJ]]> Evan Johnson Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 06:33:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276611#msg-276611 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276611#msg-276611
augoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you have a distorted sense of history Ian,
> twisted and skewed by your own planet sized ego..
> you do nothing except on the shoulders of
> others..]]> augoldman Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 01:04:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276610#msg-276610 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276610#msg-276610 augoldman Rockhounds Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:58:28 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276594#msg-276594 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276594#msg-276594
"Under South Australian Mining law, all specimens minerals etc fossicked, by law remains property of the crown. The finder only has the right of caretaker ship, and at anytime the crown may reclaim ownership. Fossickers under the act may not sell or profit financially from the disposal of these specimens. Though they may trade with others."

I have two questions in regards to this.

1. What happens when the minerals are taken out of South Australia and sold? Once they leave the state there is no way to prove who was the collector of the minerals and the "caretakership" law only applies in South Australia.

2. What if a sample is collected in South Australia and then sold on to another person - who paid good money for it - can the crown still lay claim to it even though it has passed through different hands? This could open a huge can of worms as any mineral dealer purchasing collections containing South Australian material may find that they have no ownership on their stock...

I think that the finders have to "not profit financially" if they wish to stay within the law when selling off their excess material.

This also means that any material recovered while a lease is an "exploration lease" and not a "mining lease" would come under the fossicking act and not allowed to be sold for profit.

Finally, about all of the in-sinuous banter between the mineral dealers who have posted on this thread. Build a bridge and get over it guys, you are supposed to be professionals. Your accusations and psuedo-omniscient claims are only extending the belief that most Australian dealers are shonky con-artists. This sort of behaviour is why we collectors never tell any of you where the best new finds are located, as we all live in fear that we will one day go back to these prize locations only to find an empty pit or bare patch of ground, where some shonky dealer has come in and taken it all back to their warehouse in Melbourne.

Trev]]> Trevor Dart Rockhounds Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:44:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276572#msg-276572 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276572#msg-276572
If you're really spending millions why not pay the poor man in D. R. Congo what you owe him for the malachite?

I remember you telling me that "I didn't make much out of it".

Tom, you're just plain greedy!]]> Gerald Pauley Rockhounds Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:49:36 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276567#msg-276567 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276567#msg-276567 Did you see my document (photos of )on my Facebook page ?
I will be posting many more supporting docs over the next few days
I would like some feed back from Jolyon as to how appropriate these posts are !]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:13:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276537#msg-276537 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276537#msg-276537 Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:55:15 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276536#msg-276536 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276536#msg-276536 The main issue as usual in Native Title claims .
These can take forever to process .
If you have time could you please verify the mining act regarding Fossicking is South Australia. Queensland also has a very similar Act .
A times my interpretation are also open to debate
Thanks
Have a great day
Tomk]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:49:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276535#msg-276535 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276535#msg-276535 If you look at my face book site you see the application to role over the MC to an ML is still valid
The MC expires but the ground is still held under the new application]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:41:45 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276490#msg-276490 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276490#msg-276490
Sorry Tom, but looking at this (attached photo) I can only begin to wonder about the truth! It was listed as 'Industrial Minerals', and expired quite some time ago.
No, this is not an old page, check the 'lasted updated' log on the bottom left, this is the new look SARIG site!
I guess I'll have to drop into their office tomorrow while I'm in the city.]]> Mark Willoughby Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:50:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276488#msg-276488 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276488#msg-276488 Gerald Pauley Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:14:49 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276475#msg-276475 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,46525,276475#msg-276475 Have spent near $30,000,000 over the years in pursuit of minerals .
There are a few Bills i will never pay .
Current Telstra call me regularly of $250 bill from 5 years ago
I politely tell them where to go .
Unfortunately there are some bills that don't desires paying .
And there are a few debts that I can never collect on as you yourself are very aware off]]> Tom Kapitany Rockhounds Sun, 18 Nov 2012 02:50:34 +0000