Hi All, could someone please tell me if there is such a thing as Tundra/Tunduru/Tundura Sapphire or are they just garnets/other gemstones. I would like to purchase some but I want to know what they really are? Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Di http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219609#msg-219609 Tue, 21 May 2013 07:42:11 +0000 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219739#msg-219739 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219739#msg-219739 Jason Barrett Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:58:02 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219701#msg-219701 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219701#msg-219701 Yes Be Treatment has been to the core now for quite some time. They are even doing some at much lower temps then they used to, like with the gold/yellow, which makes it very difficult to tell. This is why they have become much more accepted and prices have greatly increased on the material as well. Standard diffusion only penetrates into the surface and if the stone gets chipped or scratched up the color will be lost upon recutting. Be Treated ones can typically even be recut now. :).

Diane,
There are still lots of untreated materials out there, but they carry a premium price tag. The easiest way to know what you are getting is to find a trusted source! Buy from China you will get all kinds of junk from flat out fakes to dyed to synthetics to anything but the real thing, lol. Thailand is not much better anymore, especially with beads! Odds are as well, if you buy cheaply on Ebay you will also end up with something other then what you actually purchased, sadly. :(. This is one area where if something seems to good to be true and too cheaply priced, it is! There is a reason if the material in question is a fraction in price compared to that in a real valid store! Same goes for TV, don;t fall for the BS, "we buy in bulk so we just get it cheaper", load of malarkey, lol. There are only a few things that make a material cheaper:
1. Treatments
2. Poor cutting and lower quality polishes
3. Not as advertised, meaning it is a synthetic, simulant, reconstituted and/or dyed, etc.
4. Did I already mention treatments and poor cutting/polishing? ;)

But do NOT just assume that because a seller is in the USA, or not in an Asian country, that their wares are as advertised! Many USA sellers simply buy from the overseas scammers and resell the garbage at a profit, :/ Investigate your seller, ask questions about credentials... i.e. are they a Gemologist? How many years experience? etc. Ask about possible treatments and see how they respond. Scammers will immediately get on the defensive and flip out typically, lol.

Side note, watch out for the latest scams all over Ebay and such! Girasol... It is NOT blue opal, it is NOT gem silica, it is NOT anything super super rare... What it actually is, is nothing but simple old quartz with a twist. You know the nice star rose quartz you see out there in cabochons? This is the same exact thing, except it does not have the same chromophore(coloring component) and is white. It is nothing more then white star quartz or white quartz with an asterism, your choice. But it is NOT blue opal, NOT Girasol(which is a type of golden flash opal), nor any kind of gem silica, lol.]]> Jamey Swisher Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Thu, 07 Apr 2011 05:43:49 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219693#msg-219693 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219693#msg-219693
The rough is mainly sapphire, spinel and chrysoberyl with some garnet. The amount shown is 100 cts.

Four jars of faceted Tunduru sapphires and one of Songea (2.5mm), the Songeas are in the front right corner and these have paler shades. Perhaps that is why they make for more vivid treated stones.

Sorry for the indoor lighting.

[attachment 29750 P10704691.jpg]]]> Stephanie Martin Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Thu, 07 Apr 2011 05:14:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219677#msg-219677 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219677#msg-219677 Diane Bushby Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:24:31 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219671#msg-219671 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219671#msg-219671
Thanks Jamey for that explanation as Jan noted.

regards,
stephanie]]> Stephanie Martin Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:48:18 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219670#msg-219670 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219670#msg-219670
Jamey,

I didn't know that Be Heating had progressed as far as altering the entire stone's color and being stable. Thanks for that info! I've been away from my minerals, gemstones, home, and the internet for a while. Time to do some reading and catching up!

Jan]]> Jan Styer-Gold Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:39:25 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219666#msg-219666 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219666#msg-219666
I also don't believe these are Tunduru sapphires, but most likely Songea. But since most Songea sapphires are Beryllium treated now, many sellers try to pass them off as Tunduru and/or Umba material, because these produce natural vivid colors as well. Tunduru do tend to not be as vivid as Umba material though.

The first stand I can almost guarantee are Beryllium treated. The second probably are, but not as obvious. Also, most beads are Beryllium treated as well as stabilized or clarity enhanced as well. Lots of Beryllium treated glass filled sapphire beads have been flooding the market as well as even some glass filled faceted sapphire gemstones! These would be a dime a dozen! For untreated faceted sapphire beads, you will pay same price per carat almost as faceted gemstones, if cheaper, then there are treatments involved.

But keep in mind, Beryllium treatment is pretty well accepted now that the color is all the way through, completely stable, and do not wear off nor fade.]]> Jamey Swisher Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:17:29 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219660#msg-219660 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219660#msg-219660 Jason Barrett Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:49:34 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219659#msg-219659 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219659#msg-219659
I am aware of heat treatments etc, but I still don't think those are sapphires, heat treatment or not, in my humble opinion.

regards,
stephanie]]> Stephanie Martin Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:38:56 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219656#msg-219656 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219656#msg-219656
Tunduru Sapphires (beads and gemstones) are commonly known to be heat treated with beryllium, especially the golden yellow, orange, and red ones to enhance their color. The color is usually only "skin deep," so they may revert back to their original color with "wear and tear." If you have some beads or gems to spare, I would break some open and see what's on the inside. Beryllium heat treatment of these sapphires is commonly done in Thailand. You might not see the word "beryllium" used in the treatment description by unscrupulous sellers, just the word "heated." Here are some links to discussions regarding the "shenanigans" going on with Tunduru sapphires.

[gemologyonline.com]
[cs.beadandbutton.com]
[www.mindat.org]

Jan]]> Jan Styer-Gold Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:23:23 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219651#msg-219651 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219651#msg-219651
The second pic looks more like pink and green tourmaline or green tourmaline and garnet IMO.


regards,
stephanie]]> Stephanie Martin Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:07:35 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219638#msg-219638 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219638#msg-219638
Check out these pics, perhaps you can enlighten me because i really dont know and neither it seems to the sellers]]> Diane Bushby Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:29:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219636#msg-219636 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219636#msg-219636
How large are the beads? Faceted or polished chip style? A picture would be helpful.

If I have time much later this evening I will try and post pictures of Tunduru rough as well as some faceted stones that you could compare.

regards,
stephanie]]> Stephanie Martin Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:16:09 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219623#msg-219623 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219623#msg-219623 Diane Bushby Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 15:20:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219621#msg-219621 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219621#msg-219621 Jason Barrett Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 15:12:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219620#msg-219620 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219620#msg-219620 Diane Bushby Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 15:04:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219618#msg-219618 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219618#msg-219618 Jason Barrett Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:59:23 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219609#msg-219609 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,219609,219609#msg-219609 Diane Bushby Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 06 Apr 2011 13:30:32 +0000