From a website that is run by the "International School of Gemology" "Fluorescence is made visible by using ultraviolet light that is of high wave lengths and barely visible to the human eye. The colors are caused when a gem material takes these ultraviolet light waves and slows them down sufficiently to be visible to the human eye. Just like the black lights that used to be hanging in the bars in the 1960's, where you could walk in with a particular shirt on and the colors would stand out. The black light was actually very bright and the material interacted with it to slow the light beams down enough to become very visible." www dot yourgemologist dot com/fluorescence dot html Yeeee HAH! http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,56640#msg-56640 Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:51:30 +0000 Phorum 5.2.8-RC1 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64251#msg-64251 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64251#msg-64251
Sophia]]> Sophia Shultz Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 22:35:00 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64248#msg-64248 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64248#msg-64248 yey.be]]]> Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:54:24 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64247#msg-64247 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64247#msg-64247
Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:50:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64245#msg-64245 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64245#msg-64245
Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:43:31 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64244#msg-64244 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64244#msg-64244 I personally will back you on any retaliation that you might see fit Jolyon if you feel it is merited.
I would not be too angry if Robert had called me a ''wannabee'' but the fact that he said it about everyone on MinDat some of which are the worlds leading scientists in their respective fields truly hurts me.

Barry

P.S. Alain, didn't Robert accuse you about using inuendo or sexual comments on the forum? Robert does not seem to be too afraid of doing the same...! Such a hypocritic fool...!]]> Barry Flannery Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:35:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64243#msg-64243 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64243#msg-64243
I think that was uncalled for. If you need professional help on topics that puzzle you, come here and they will help you with it.
Jolyon does understand the true meaning of open community.

p.s.: James deleted the post again, you can read it at [yey.be]]]> Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:28:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64242#msg-64242 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64242#msg-64242
E]]> Everett Harrington Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:19:11 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64238#msg-64238 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64238#msg-64238
Robert has a problem with us. He threatened me last night by saying that if I didn't delete this thread he'd re-open a thread on his message board criticising Mindat.

I told him that, unlike him, I'm perfectly happy to receive criticism about the site - and UNLIKE HIM I don't react in a crazy manner when people say this site is no good (and people have).

So - tell me who is being unreasonable here. Are we? I've left EVERY message that Robert has posted in this thread unaltered, I have given Robert every opportunity to respond to the allegations that we raised about the quality of his online materials.

He seems to believe that if you publish information into the public domain you should not expect public criticism if you get your facts wrong. That's plain wrong. If you're out there telling the world you are an expert on the subject, and especially if you are taking money for this, then you should be prepared to defend yourself IN PUBLIC if you are wrong.

So I told Robert in no uncertain terms that I wasn't prepared to give in to his threats and I have been waiting all day for his revenge. And here it is:

[www.yourgemologist.com]

I must admit I was expecting a little bit more of an intelligent attack, but I suppose when you run out of facts to support yourself then personal attacks are all you have left.

I could at this point get angry and make it my mission to ensure everyone involved in the International School of Gemology and the YourGemology website reads this thread and finds out what has happend, but I have no interest in being vindictive or looking for revenge. Robert's comments are so laughable that there's hardly any point trying to reply in any kind of sane way. I'm sure that it will backfire for him as more of his students read that message and come looking here to see what's going on.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 02 May 2007 21:07:26 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64166#msg-64166 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64166#msg-64166
Robert, I was disappointed that you dragged this up again with a pointless attack on mindat on your site, but I am glad that you have removed the message and I will now, again, lock this thread and hope this is really the end of the matter.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 21:15:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64165#msg-64165 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64165#msg-64165
I took down our thread on this issue. After confirming that it was indeed you at the bottom of all of this, I have no desire to continue any ill will between YourGemologist and Mindat.

I guess you can cut another notch on your belt. Let's see, it was YourGemologist Forums, Gemology Online Forums, Diamond Talk Forums, Mindat Forums.....where shall we continue this little te' ta te' of yours, Alain?

You lead the way. Someone will let me know where you have landed next.]]> Robert James Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 21:09:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64164#msg-64164 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64164#msg-64164
I don't see any reason why any of us should bother to join and comment on the forums at the Yourgemologist site - I prefer to reply here than to send unnecessary traffic to his forums.

Jolyon]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 21:08:40 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64163#msg-64163 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64163#msg-64163 Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 21:01:12 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64162#msg-64162 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64162#msg-64162
I would let the Devil himself come on my forums board before I would let you back in.

The Devil, and everyone else, is welcome to respond if they would like.

You're out.

Robert]]> Robert James Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 20:58:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64161#msg-64161 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64161#msg-64161
You did solicitate people to join you.
Since you are in a generous mood, please give me an account so I can reply on your forum.
Mindat is very professional in the way that they let you comment here, how about some courtesy back?

Alain]]> Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 20:49:19 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64160#msg-64160 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64160#msg-64160 -------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Dominik
>

> It sure sounds like the main rule is "Don't
> embarass me by pointing out that I'm wrong."

>
> :~}
>
> Alan


Actually Alan, the concept is: Be professional in dealing with others.

And I do not go to other people's forums and invite them to mine. As I do not want them to do the same to me. Part of that professional respect I was talking about.

If you would like to come experience a little professional respect, and are willing to give it as well as receive it, the door is always open to anyone who comes to us with that understanding.

The rest is up to you.

Robert]]> Robert James Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 20:36:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64159#msg-64159 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64159#msg-64159
Your post prompted me to have a look at the site via Jolyon's hot link.

It sure sounds like the main rule is "Don't embarass me by pointing out that I'm wrong."

I also noticed that there is no way to respond to the post without signing up. I wonder if anyone who frequents Mindat would be allowed admission to the club?

:~}

Alan]]> Alan Plante Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 20:25:39 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64158#msg-64158 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64158#msg-64158
Regarding your statement: Many of the FGA and GIA people he refers to have stepped away from him over a year ago.

It was actually only 5 people who left because we kicked you out. And it was you and your cohorts who continually posted improper sexual innuendo and banter on the YourGemologist forums after repeated requests to stop your antics. And we had to close the board for a few days just to rid ourselves of you.

And afterward, you did indeed threaten to post up the ISG course notes on your own website if I did not pay you money.

And even today there is proprietary YourGemologist information on your website that you stole from YourGemologist when we kicked you off.

And now days, you go about posting up nasty things about the ISG to fulfill your threats 2 years ago to damage us in any way you could find possible.

You have done the same thing on other website forums boards in the past. These people here simply don't know you or have the years of experience with you that we do.?

I have no doubt that you are the person who started this thread. You are keenly smart when it comes to computer technology. And I am sure that you will start others.

The only difference now is that we are going to fight back against your antics and hateful vengence. And every forums that posts up your venomous rhetoric without a fair hearing for the ISG will be published in our YourGemologist forums, to let people know exactly what is going on when they stumble across these postings of yours.

Alain, you threatened to harm us 2 years ago by doing anything you could do to damage us. And you have jumped from one forums board to another posting under secret names, making every false and malicious accusation you could make just to fulfill your threat. And I am tired of it.

What no one here has bothered to answer is that we have many GIA students who have studied with us and use our course notes to take their GIA courses because ours are more indepth yet easier to understand.

Why did you not mention that, Alain?

And GIA students report that they did not understand many of the concepts of gemological properties until they read our ISG course notes and viewed our DVD Lectures.

Why did you not mention that, Alain?

And we have had our students pass the FGA and FGA(Canada) With Distinction, and give the ISG credit for helping achieve this distinction.

Why did you not mention that, Alain?

The ISG gemology program is one of the best in the business, and at a cost that allows more people to participate than ever before.

Anyone want to say something about that, have the guts to pick up the phone and talk to me person to person. 210.877.5816.

Seriously. If you have something to say, say it to me in person. I'm tired of these hide and seek shots at a good organization being made by Alain van Acker whose purpose is blind raging vengenge for our having tried to rid ourselves of him.

Robert]]> Robert James Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 20:22:43 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64146#msg-64146 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64146#msg-64146
He is running a school and so is responsible for getting his facts straight. Nothing much else to it.

He should be so lucky that the people here evaluated his site so he can hand out better information. His students are a lawsuite waiting to happen.

Alain]]> Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 17:06:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64144#msg-64144 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64144#msg-64144 David Von Bargen Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 16:32:06 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64140#msg-64140 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64140#msg-64140 kind regards,
Dominik]]> d. schlaefli Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 16:07:30 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64139#msg-64139 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64139#msg-64139
Sounds like the guy is a *very* immature and insecure person who simply can't handle criticism. I don't feel it is worth chasing him around the intermess to try to set him straight - with someone like that, it can't be done...

Alan]]> Alan Plante Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 16:03:24 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64138#msg-64138 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64138#msg-64138
Done! Thanks! We are on the high ground.]]> Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 14:59:03 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64137#msg-64137 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64137#msg-64137
As someone who has actually read the ISG course, I must say it contains many errors that are presented in such a simple way that you hardly notice they are wrong unless you start to think about it. Of course gemmology students with no background in science would never spot that.

Many of the FGA and GIA people he refers to have stepped away from him over a year ago.

I will not make inflamatory remarks on Robert James's character as that would result in a soap. Enough to state we are not the best of friends.
Him taking the "high road" as he claims on his forum and playing the victim is not entirly the truth; if he dislikes you, you'll suffer his wrath (google for Fred Cuellar and him) or just read here.

It is true that (in general) gemmologists are not much bothered with science but are more pragmatic, but there is some basic science involved that needs to be understood. Luckely there are many gemmologists out there that do groundbreaking research in our field and luckely for us they do have an interest in science.

Concerning the slowing down of light as the cause of luminescence, a simple night's sleep should render that impossible.
Aside from the fact that the speed of light is not changed atall (it is just absorbed and re-emitted which has a net result of slowing down), UV light travels at a lower velocity than blue light and blue light has a slower velocity than red light.
One can easily calculate that with frequency = V over λ. The frequency doesn't chance, so if V (for velocity) is slower then lamda (the wavelength) must also go down. So if you take a light wave with a wavelength of 400nm and slow its velocity down by half, you would get a shorter wavelength of 200nm.
If I follow James's his logic, the fluorescence should be due to a speeding UP of light (which we know is also wrong).
When you look at a prism which produces dispersion, the red light is bend less because it travels at a higher velocity inside the medium.

I was banned from his forum a few years ago for bad behaviour and recently asked him if I could get back in to comment here and there and he would put it before his student council (whomever they might be) to let me back in. Still no word on that.
The problem is that he doesn't take critisism very well and he presents himself as the best school in the world. He is basically a one-man show and every critic or hint that he might be wrong is punished immediately.

Another thing to read is his page on the refractometer. He claims a lot of things, like the light is refracted by the stone and more silly statements. There is no mention anywhere about total internal reflection, which is what a gemmological refractometer makes use of (hence the name "total internal reflection refractometer").

I'm sure James' will respond to this with the emphazise on my character, but so be it.

Finally I want to take the oppertunity to shamelessly plug a new project that we are working on: The Gemology Project ( gemologyproject.com ).
It's a closed wiki, but I invite everyone to please go over our mistakes (which I'm sure are more than plenty) and correct them through the "submission" links. If you want to become an editor, contact me and you will get an account (unless your initials are RJ).
You would make me very happy (I hope you read this Peter Nancarrow).]]> Alain van Acker Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 14:37:04 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64136#msg-64136 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64136#msg-64136 I always understood that general characteristic of mineral identicication was was just that "general". Perhaps it would be impractical to address ALL possible optical characteristics of every mineral, including thin-section, without intruducing more confusion, rather than less.

Just a thought.

PS: my apologies for the last line of my prevoius post, but it would seem the Gauntlet was thrown down by Robert, and I felt it this affront be answered. Feel free to edit the "disservice" statement out if you feel it was inappropriate here.

MRH]]> MRH Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 14:34:12 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64133#msg-64133 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64133#msg-64133 Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 13:57:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64132#msg-64132 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64132#msg-64132
Rather than accepting the errors he made on his website and correct them, he instead takes this insignifcant instances, misrepresent it to make it look "germaine" to the subject (which it is not), and tries to make it look like he has proved US wrong, thus concluding WE can't be trusted.

This reminds me a lot of the Intellegent Design folks. As we in science regularly question our understandings, in hopes of being as acurate as possible, they (and like Robert it would seem) approach the subject with the notion of "infailability", the idea that their concepts need not face challenges nor should be questioned, and for that reason alone, they consider themselves MORE right than those who regularly "fact check" to be sure thet are not missing something.

My two cents.

MRH]]> MRH Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 13:46:25 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64130#msg-64130 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,64130#msg-64130
[www.yourgemologist.com]

So. Apparently we have committed the heinous sin of not reporting that Turquoise can be TRANSPARENT. I'm not sure I can sleep tonight knowing that we have let this outrageous error slip through on the site.

Jolyon

ps. The thread is reopened]]> Jolyon Ralph Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 01 May 2007 12:31:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62909#msg-62909 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62909#msg-62909 James Gates Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:39:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62621#msg-62621 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62621#msg-62621
I like your sense of humor! I'm thinking of having one or all of these made into stickers.

Jeff]]> Jeff Nagy Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:32:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62507#msg-62507 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,55,56640,62507#msg-62507 Ollie Hoopnagle Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:22:20 +0000