Mindat Mineralogy Messageboard - Fakes, Frauds and Marketing Ploys

Fake (irradiated) dark fluorites from "Bikov, Siberia" (no replies)

Uwe Kolitsch — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:04:21 +0000

I was told by Mindat member Martin Gruell that [www.mindat.org] is one of typical fakes on the market since about 2002 (fabricated "by a Hungarian"), now also sold on the web.
The specimen is actually from Yaogangxian, but there are also faked specimens from Xianghuapu/Xinghuapin.
Irradiation turns the fluorites blue to emerald-green, and the normal quartzes to smokey quartz.

An article by Robert Brandstetter on these fakes is planned for Lapis magazine.

The more you learn... (1 reply)

Gail Spann — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:38:20 +0000

Last year we were offered a scapolite specimen, it had two index finger sized crystals perched side by side, straight up...about 1/8 inch apart. It was about 2 in the morning and we bought it. The next morning I saw that it was too good to be true, it was glued with matrix crushed in to make it look natural, and upon further examination I saw that the crystals were not actually grown in that matrix at all. I called the dealer to come get it and was satisfied with the exchange. I also told the dealer that it was fake and I never wanted to see it for sale, anywhere. He claimed he picked it up from another dealer and would return it and pass the message along.
A few weeks later I talked to him and he claimed he had told the original dealer and that the fellow had scoffed at the idea. ( Even my dealer had admitted it was, indeed, a fake! )
I heard the piece was for sale in Tucson and at a high price. I saw a photo of it in the dealer's case. I hope that anyone who saw it and held it noticed that it was not as nature made it.
Anyone else have stories of returned fakes that are up for sale again?

Smelt Quartz? (10 replies)

Kristi Huggins — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:24:35 +0000

I found a dealer on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260508247278 selling "Smelt Quartz". This looks like another lovely item (enter sarcastic look here) from China.

Can anyone tell me about this?

Thanks,
Kristi

gold? (16 replies)

Marius Utens — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:47:55 +0000

Is it possible too post a photo of the back site of specimen 263851.
I think it is not a natural specimen but a melt product.Can you tell me the alloy?
Marius

Ebay diamonds in kimberlite?? (54 replies)

Jennifer Nemitz — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:36:52 +0000

Hello all,

Found this on eBay and am wondering what you all think... I should know better but want to make sure... Seller says it has been tested as diamonds by jewelers. Any idea as to what the diamonds are? Most of the other "diamonds" in Colorado kimberlite currently listed on eBay are obviously not diamonds - either calcite or quartz. I gave up trying to communicate with that seller and report them.

Here is the link:
[cgi.ebay.com]

To me, the flaking of the rock to make the "tool" is not characteristic of kimberlite, there are no other visible KIMs, no phenocrysts or xenoliths, not to mention 23 diamonds in a small cabinet.

Thanks,
Jen
Kimberlite Nut

Native silver (9 replies)

Barry Miller — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:34:57 +0000

A question - is it assumed that all native silver specimens should be tarnished black? Sometimes the silvers are rather silvery to very slightly discolored. Were these specimens treated in some way to discourage tarnishing and, if so, does this treatment put the specimen into the realm of fakery?

Chinese fluorite (13 replies)

Rob2 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:27:49 +0000

Has anyone seen these "new" chinese fluorites yet? Seem to be quite new on the market, sure to appear in Munich and Tucson.

While the dealers swear to high heaven those to have grown naturally (some may have realized something's with their purchase, now trying to pass the hot potato), with localities given as Henan or Yunnan Province (or any other random place), a reliable source told me the pieces are actually carved from massive fluorite (said from Inner Mongolia), then treated with hydrofluoric acid to mask the carving marks, finally oiled of course. Note the rough, etched surface. Also, fluorite balls forming along pentagondodecs seems rather unlikely, what do you think?

Have the reverse-skeletal Madan galenas been faked? (82 replies)

Patrick Haynes (2) — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:09:56 +0000

I have always suspected that the reverse-skeletal galenas we have been seeing from Madan, Bulgaria had been manufactured by "sandblasting" existing specimens. I expected to see only an initial few, but now they seem to be at every show. Other opinions?

irradiated Quarts from Arkansas: Danger?! (18 replies)

jervin goedhart — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:17:09 +0000

At a Mineral Fair in The Hague, Netherlands, I have bought two Smokey Quartz for 11€ and 13€. They appeared to me as being nice and special, since they are very dark, and I like Smokey. they really give an onther color in my Collection. Mindat picktures showed that they are very much alike with the irradiated ones from Arkansas shown, and indeed the Seller told that they are from Arkansas.

Now my Wife says that since they are Radio Active they must leave the house.....and I refuse so imagine what this does for the Hobby!

Are these Quartz Fake? Are they Irradiated, and does this mean that they are still Radio Active? Did they sell me bad stuff??

Thanx

Betafite!? ;) (20 replies)

Pavel Kartashov — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:28:27 +0000

How you like such "betafite from Silver Crater mine" - [cgi.ebay.com]

This is only smudgy Pyrite pentagondodecahedrons intergrowth.

Wulfenite Crystal & Gem Essence Remedy (34 replies)

Karsten Eig — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:42:32 +0000

Yep - the headline tells it all:
Wulfenite essence

It seems thay haven't even bothered to match description and item:

"Wulfenite - 1 x 10ml Bottle

Eliminates impurities from the body when due to wrong diet.

Emotional/mental - Turquoise stimulates psychic gifts and helps with the development of communication skills. It promotes emotional stability and a state of peacefulness at a mental level. It can also help to clear fears of psychic attack or being adversely affected by negativity. The energy of Turquoise can be used to remind us of forgotten knowledge or abilities from the past that we can use in our current life situation."

But, hey! Wulfenite does make you feel good!

AZEZTULITE Heaven and earth Guarantee (41 replies)

Adam Kelly — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:52:48 +0000

This is such a load of rubbish, I don't know where to start.

[cgi.ebay.com]

Ruby in Zoisite versus Ruby in Fuchsite (6 replies)

Kristi Huggins — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:55:57 +0000

I am having a discussion with a friend on a specific piece. I say it is ruby in fuchsite, she says it is ruby in zoisite. To me, fuchsite is lighter with little mica sparkles while zoisite is a darker, almost emerald green with black spots (have no idea what the black spots are). Can anyone explain to me the major differences between ruby in zoisite and ruby in fuchsite? I know there is a chemical difference (found that on mindat.org) but how would one identify these properly? I think Fuchsite is softer than Zoisite......

Online, I see lots of vendors who are saying what they have is Ruby in Zoisite, but it is a light green to blue/green which I have always known to be fuchsite. How do you tell the difference?

Also, are there fake/fraudy pieces of this out there?

Any help is gratefully appreciated!

Native Copper on Epidote from China (15 replies)

Richard Dale — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:55:20 +0000

Did anyone else notice the bright cauliflower growths of "Native" Copper on attractive specimens of Epidote crystals, for sale at the recent Denver show? They seem just too planned to be real and look just like the "sprouts" that sometimes grow between plates in an electrolytic refinery (something I spent a summer job eliminating - they short out the process). There are a number of ways that they could have been faked... is anyone convinced that they are natural?

"Malachite after wood" (18 replies)

Ben Kirchner — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:43:27 +0000

Hi all,

I hesitate to post this in the Fakes section because I don't want to imply that the seller is a malicious scam artist!!! More than likely, he/she was just misinformed, or the piece is mislabeled, or what have you.

[cgi.ebay.com]

Or actually it's just as possible that I am wrong! However I have a piece that I think is virtually the same as this one, and I was told that it is indeed petrified wood, just chalcedony replacing old fossilized wood, but colored by chromium - no Cu involved at all.

Are these two really different pieces? I have seen the copper pseudos after wood at the "Petrified Wood Museum" (there's a store right outside of Holbrook, AZ, near the Petrified Forest National Park, a pretty new store that has an absolutely amazing collection of petrified wood! Including some native copper crystallizing on petrified wood, amongst others. I need to go back and get some pictures - really amazing stuff in there!!!) but I am under the impression that those are pretty much unique. I mean, there's very very little copper in that part of Arizona from what I know.

So basically, do Malachite pseudos after wood really exist? Or is it just the "regular" chalcedony colored by Cr? My hunch is that it's a mislabel or perhaps indeed deception - that a lot more people would be impressed by Malachite (a mineral they've actually heard of) instead of just regular petrified wood colored by Cr. I have one and it is in fact very cool, and expensive. This one's about the same size and same price as mine, but mine is a much darker, more saturated green, unless these pictures are way off.

Anyone have any ideas about this auction?

(If the seller reads this, I'm not trying to call anyone out as a scammer! Just trying to get my own facts straight, and I plan on sending the seller a message pointing to this thread so no one else will be misinformed!)

Thanks all

Warning: mineral email scam (34 replies)

Stuart Mills — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:50:56 +0000

I got this email today:

Quote

Hi There,

I got your contact from the internet in the process of searching for sellers of
Minerals. Unfortunately i may not be able to make it down to the show but would have
loved if you could pass on my request to other sellers on the list of available
minerals they have for sales. Perhaps if you have any for sale, kindly e-mail me the
list,the cost estimate,types or perhaps make a random selections of rear minerals
you have and let's take it from there. Hoping to hear from you, thank you.

Kind Regards

"Raymond Winston Grey"

Several others have also recieved this message.

Halite, your opinions (4 replies)

Timothy Jackson — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 02:11:30 +0000

Hi all, the attached images are of a couple Halite "hopper" crystals at about 1cm square each.
I found these in a box of MALDON sea salt used for cooking and table use.
They are grown using the traditional methods of evaporating sea water then scraping off the resulting salt.
Now would you consider these crystals to be "natural" as this is how they form naturally in evaporate deposits OR because humans have played a part in deliberately evaporating sea water are they "man made"?
Love to hear your opinions(:D

Buyer beware! Native zinc is back. (1 reply)

Howard Heitner — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:42:46 +0000

The specimen shown below was part of a parcel of minerals sold at a recent estate auction in New York State.

Craigslist humour (19 replies)

Alfredo Petrov — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:38:43 +0000

A big calcite specimen currently offered on Craigslist - New York includes the following generous offer:
"As a courtesy, I will clear them and infuse them with Reiki Energy for the new owner."

Hmmmm... makes me think,,, I have a battery charger; perhaps I'll charge all my specimens with electrons as a courtesy for future owners. Actually, ALL specimens are exposed to cosmic rays, unless they are kept in very deep mine shafts, so maybe they're "charged" with cosmic energy?

Fake Russian crocoite? (6 replies)

Ben Grguric — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:05:00 +0000

Hi,
Does anyone have any knowledge of faked crocoites from the Urals (e.g. Beresovsk)? Along the lines of synthetic lead chromate crystallised on a suitable rock matrix. I have a specimen bought from the US about 10 years ago which is more or less a continuous coverage of crystals and crystalline on brownish host rock. No associated minerals, very clean and sharp crocoite, a bit too fresh looking.

Cheers,

Ben,

Fake Trinitite (13 replies)

Mineralogical Research Company — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:29:00 +0000

Most of us are familiar with Trinitite, formed by the first nuclear blast at the Trinity site in Alamogordo, NM. Trinitite has been confirmed to be nearly pure melted silica with traces of Olivine, Feldspar, and other minerals which comprise the desert sand. This material has always been a curiosity for collectors and even more so in recent years. While Trinitite was once common, it is now quite rare and has become relatively expensive and is sold by the gram. Go figure.... Because of unethical activities by some money grubbers, I wrote an editorial about Fake Trinitite some time ago. I will attach it below, but I first must make a preemptive statement regarding this. That is, there are several ethical, bonafide dealers that offer authentic material for sale and this editorial in no way implicates them.

Editorial by Eugene Cisneros

It's a sad commentary, but true. Some unethical people have been selling fake Trinitite on the web and online auctions. We were recently offered some of this material as well. If it's too green, too translucent or too inexpensive to be true, it probably isn't real Trinitite! So how does the collector know if a specimen is authentic? Well, usually the only means for the collector to eliminate the fake stuff is to use a sensitive dosimeter and take a reading to verify that residual induced radiation exists. This will be very small, but it can be detected. This will not rule out the possibility that clever fakers will not add some small amount of weakly radioactive material to their formula. The only way to be 100% certain of authenticity is by means of nuclear energy spectroscopy. I have worked under contract of the Department of Energy, at a national laboratory, for the past 37 years and have the resources to perform these tests. Thus, we at Mineralogical Research Company can assure you of the authenticity of all of the Trinitie specimens that we make available to you - - - we guarantee our specimens 100%.

The energy spectra, below, shows the radioactive isotope Cesium 137 photopeak at ~666 keV. This radionuclide has a half life of 30.2 years and is one of several unique byproducts of nuclear fission or atomic detonations. It is present in all authentic Trinitite specimens.

Brazilian Hemimorphite (3 replies)

Richard Dale — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:05:24 +0000

I recently purchased this piece with location given as Mina Campo Verde, Rio Grande do Norte. The specimen is not faked, but I commented to the vendor that I had never seen such rich blue Hemimorphite from Brazil, and none at all from RG do Norte... more like Chinese stuff. He is an old friend, and said he bought it in Tucson a couple of years ago, and pieces were still wrapped in Brazilian newspaper. I suspect that it is Chinese, sent to Brazil as lapidary material, and brought to the US as an afterthought for specimens. Any comments appreciated.

Blue Halite / Carlsbad NM / real or fake? (3 replies)

John Krygier — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:12:52 +0000

Hi all,

This item was identified as Blue Halite from Carlsbad NM. Zoning at several different angles,
and purple rather than blue on one end. The wood cube in the pictures is 1 inch square.

After I bought it I wondered if it could be fake? Can blue halite be faked?

Thanks,

jbk

Two flats of faked gold specimens (52 replies)

Lyla J. Tracy — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:25:43 +0000

Little did I realize yesterday morning when I was sniveling about "enhanced" specimens on another post, that by the afternoon I would end up with two flats of very well done faked gold specimens. Well almost two flats full. The guy threw in a few natural pieces to provide some authenticity.

To back up a bit, a couple of months ago a friend told me about some gold that a guy he knew was producing from a "mine" in Nevada. The story and the gold sounded a bit bizzare to me, so I asked him to bring some up next trip if the "miner guy" was agreeable. Was he ever...but most of it is faked and my friend doesn't have a clue. I will see him tomorrow and tell him the bad news and if he gives me the go ahead, I will post some pictures here. I am not quite sure what the liability issues are so I intend to tread lightly.

Last night I e-mailed a well know, and respected dealer friend in Reno, describing the gold to him. He responded instantly with more details, that in fact there is no such mine. From what my friend tells me this "miner" has developed quite a few buyers in Europe and Asia and has shown the gold at some major U.S. shows.

Lyla

Fulgurite question (10 replies)

Barry Miller — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:30:14 +0000

I see lots of fulgurites for auction. I thought that they are relatively uncommon. Are these legit?

Fluorite and silicone oil (7 replies)

Howard Heitner — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:56:16 +0000

The use of silicone oil on fluorite has appeared in a number of threads on Cleaning and Preparation. In my opinion, this practice is an "enhancement " of the specimen, not "cleaning". The oil is making cracks less visible. Its use is apparently widespread. I have even heard people complaining that they can't put a price or inventory sticker on fluorite specimens because of the oil. All you fluorite collectors out there, what do you think?

Azeztulite description changed! Wikipedia used to be cool, but it has changed man... (8 replies)

Justin Zzyzx — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:31:06 +0000

I was just checking out the Azeztulite description on Wikipedia and it has been changed to redirect to "Charmstone" which is a poor article itself.

I think we have lost a great beacon of awareness for this complete scam.

fakeminerals.com reports Azeztulite description changed on Wikipedia

My question for you is how often do you hear the word "Charmstone" brought up in metaphysical circles?

New Gem Misrepresentation - "Scorolite" (no replies)

Jeffrey Shallit — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:04:58 +0000

I recently bought some faceted gemstones advertised as "scorodite" on ebay. When I tested them at home, however, I found a specific gravity of 2.6, much too light for scorodite. I suspected they were actually quartz, and this has now been confirmed by Kerry Day using EDS.

The seller immediately refunded my money and informed me that the supplier actually claimed they were "scorolite", not "scorodite". Although "scorolite" is sometimes used as a synonym for "scorodite", it seems to be some new misrepresentation on the market. Doing a web search produces dozens of pages advertising or discussing "scorolite" as a "new" gemstone.

I suspect all the advertised "scorolite" is actually quartz - something to watch out for.

Turquoise - How do you tell the difference between natural and powdered? (10 replies)

David Weiss — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:02:56 +0000

My wife has become interested in turquoise jewelery, and I'd like to get her something.

However, I've heard that it's often powdered and reshaped and colored. I'd like to avoid that and get her a naturally cut piece.

Some pieces are quite obviously not natual, but others aren't. What's a good way of telling the difference?

>1kilogram black tourmaline crumbles with bare fingers (13 replies)

margo — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:31:30 +0000

I was wondering if any has come across a big piece (1.1kg) of "supposed Black Tourmaline" that crumbles away by just holding it. (mohs 7-7.5)
[attachment 16136 tourmalinehardness7-7.5.JPG]

I bought it for an equivalent of usd100 which is dirt cheap.

The edges are ragged and it looks more like black kyanite (mohs 3-4)
[attachment 16139 21072009295.jpg]

The lab test I had done at a jewelry testing lab, tested it as tourmaline but seeing as this was the first time they tested some I send it back with 2 genuine pieces for comparison.

Some details:

When wet is has a strong chemical smell
7 inches (18cm) long 1.5 inches (3.5cm)thick
Very fragile; pieces can be easily separated from the bigger stone, just touching gives sediment on the hands or dust where it was placed [attachment 16133 21072009294.jpg]
these pieces break in half and can be pinched to powder with bare fingers
some small circular holes with what looks like rust
the color is black but seem to be clear in some places like dyed
several fractures on the stone
a crystal healer who works with black tourmaline (she is so sensitive that she can't hold even small pieces very long) did not feel anything and could hold it with problems

I don't feel it is genuine and would like to know if anyone has EVER come across this type supposed black tourmaline or maybe has a clue what it could be?

The person who sold it to me professes it to be genuine and from Brazil, and will not take it back