Mindat Mineralogy Messageboard - Lapidary and Faceting All aspects of working with minerals and stones, for example faceting, lapidary and flint/obsidian knapping. http://www.mindat.org/msgboard-57.html Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:48:51 +0000 Phorum 5.2.8-RC1 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160222#msg-160222 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160222#msg-160222 Ramble on! What areas have you mined jade? Have you ever collected in Washington state? I appreciate your prespective on jade, especially in regards to it's variability. I'm still learning the ropes, but I think I'm past the neophyte stage:-) Have you any interesting examples of jade? Blacks, patterned, botryoidals, reds?
It was my understanding that the "orange peel" is caused by the "undercutting" of softer inclusions. It is also my understanding that the difficulty of cutting/polishing jade has been over stated. Traditionally beeswax has been used as a final treatment to jades...perhaps to combat a little left over 'orange peel'?]]> Ezekiel Hughes Lapidary and Faceting Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:29:07 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160213#msg-160213 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160213#msg-160213 The toughness of nephrite jade is due to the "micro-interfelted" texture of the tremolite/actinolite crystals. There is no directionality to this texture. Sometimes, there are veins of parallel growth tremolite within a piece of nephrite which exhibit chatoyancy, but these are probably not tecnically nephrite themselves. There is a lot of variation in a jade deposit and many associated alteration minerals and inclusions. Talc, asbestos, serpentine, coarser tremolite/actinolite are common associations with the metasomatic process that forms nephrite. Uvarovite and chromite are common inclusions. The relative hardness and size of inclusions can influence the quality of the polish. The grade of the nephrite is related to colour shade and the brightness of the polish it takes. Nephrite is also subject to retrograde metamorphism,where it starts to become serpentinized. High pressures also cause some to be schistose or irregularly micro-fractured. These changes all affect grade, toughness and polishability. The value per pound can vary from a few dollars to around a hundred dollars, depending on quantity purchased. I guess this old jade miner/geologist just got triggered into rambling a bit.]]> Alex Homenuke Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:08:57 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160195#msg-160195 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160195#msg-160195
Thanks,

Aaron]]> Aaron S Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:30:14 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160178#msg-160178 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160178#msg-160178
Jade is not that hard to polish with the right tools. and good jade. Not all jade will polish well.

I have made jade cabs, spheres, book ends, and just polished pieces for decades with and without orange peel. I use a Genie starters. When I get to the 600 grit stage, I switch to a wornout 600 grit silicon carbide belt. After that I use a leather or felt buffing wheel at slow speeds with tin oxide and a very light touch. You can get really good results with 3,000 grit diamond paste inplace of the tin oxide.

This is just one method. I am sure there are others.

Good Luck,
Rick]]> Rick Dalrymple Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:57:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160163#msg-160163 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160163#msg-160163
I tend to have best results with diamond. Kind of sounds like your grandfather may have used a red rouge bar to help keep the diamond charge on the lap.]]> Michael Croxell Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:25:05 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160161#msg-160161 Re: how is electroplating of magnetite in jade done http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160161#msg-160161 Michael Croxell Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:53:18 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160152#msg-160152 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,160152#msg-160152 Ray Hill Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:35:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160151#msg-160151 Re: how is electroplating of magnetite in jade done http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160151#msg-160151 There are also electroplating brushes that can be used to sort of brush on the electroplated metal to a metallic substance, using its electrical conductivity to make it work.]]> Ray Hill Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:33:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160063#msg-160063 Re: how is electroplating of magnetite in jade done http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,136856,160063#msg-160063
Dennis Armbruster]]> Denman Lapidary and Faceting Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:50:02 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158908#msg-158908 Re: Polishing machine ID http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158908#msg-158908 Donald]]> Donald Slater Lapidary and Faceting Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:39:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158905#msg-158905 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158905#msg-158905 I have had some jade that polished easy with no orange peeling and others that I couldn't get a decent polish no matter what I did. One old lapidarist that I knew told me to use a worn out 600 grit belt dry. I have tried this and got good results most of the time. The stone will get quite hot and you have to be careful the stone does not pop off. I have had better luck using the resin bonded diamond sanding disc with water on a hard flat wheel. They are maybe 1/16 thick or less and have less give than the belts on a expanding drum. Diamond is also better because it maintains its cutting edge longer and doesn't round off. The disc are made by several companies such Ameritool and Crystalite. Diamond is more expensive of course but last a long time and more than worth it in time saved and overall cost. They come in grit from 220-8000. When it comes to polishing a lot of people use Chrome oxide on leather but I have never tried it and generally just use Aluminum oxide then diamond paste if you want a higher shine. Jade is one of those stones that usually does what it wants no matter what you do. I hope this helps some.
Donald]]> Donald Slater Lapidary and Faceting Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:27:50 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158858#msg-158858 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158858#msg-158858 David Von Bargen Lapidary and Faceting Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:28:46 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158775#msg-158775 Re: Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158775#msg-158775 Tell us if you figure out any tricks.
This took me about four hours to polish.
AK]]> Adam Kelly Lapidary and Faceting Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:33:21 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158392#msg-158392 Re: Polishing machine ID http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158392#msg-158392 Jamey Swisher Lapidary and Faceting Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:38:48 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158361#msg-158361 Jade polishing http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158361,158361#msg-158361 I am trying to reconstruct the polishing technique my grandfather used in the 1960s for jade. He got excellent results and avoided orange peel. I have the original leather laps he used, which range from 3,000 to 100,000 grit. What I haven't been able to determine is what polishing material he used...I assume diamond or carbundum. The laps have a reddish stain on them similar to rouge.

Anyone know how can ascertain this?

FYI, as a child I sat at his side and watched him work, and am now setting up his old equipment...the challenge is figuring out exactly how he did it.

Thanks, Doug]]> Doug Inkley Lapidary and Faceting Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:45:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158360#msg-158360 Polishing machine ID http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,158360,158360#msg-158360 I am looking for information on the make of the vertical two lap machine in the attached picture to learn more about it. I can find nothing similar on the internet and there is no manufacturer name on the machine itself. It was used in the 1960s and I am interested in using it.

Anyone know anything about it?
Thanks, Doug]]> Doug Inkley Lapidary and Faceting Mon, 02 Nov 2009 01:38:03 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151695,151695#msg-151695 help needed with DVUE2 gem collection http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151695,151695#msg-151695 I am requesting ANYONE, who is willing to share the Datavue 2 ASC files (containing the proper files, not the few-byte fillers), to contact me on e-mail p-kun80@hotmail.com. It would be the best if they could simply be sent as an e-mail attachment; however, if you wish to get money for it (which we should discuss privately), send it as a Collect on Delivery package.
I am unable to know if it is legal for anyone to sell data like that in their respective regions -- it will be your task to check (if you care, actually).

Regards
Peter]]> goldfish Lapidary and Faceting Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:32:42 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151620,151648#msg-151648 Re: Tumbling Lapis http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151620,151648#msg-151648 Let us know how your project turns out.
Tom]]> Tom Klinepeter Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:38:44 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151620,151620#msg-151620 Tumbling Lapis http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,151620,151620#msg-151620
Many thanks,

Henry
San Francisco Bay Area]]> Henry T. Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:07:31 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,28572,151398#msg-151398 Re: B&I mfg http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,28572,151398#msg-151398 cdbakken@lakedalelink.net
Thanks for the help.

I was wondering if anyone had found a good source for a replacement 10 saw blade with the correct arbor size to fit the 10 inch gemmaker?]]> Craig Bakken Lapidary and Faceting Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:43:17 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,125069,147152#msg-147152 Re: Polishing Softer Stone With Tagit Vibrahone Tumbler http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,125069,147152#msg-147152
After viewing your image (which are very good quality, considering other images I have seen here and at other sites) It would appear that you have reached a point where your just about to "over tumble" them in an attempt to polish. This would be a good time to clean the stones and/or re-cut and shape some to the odd ball stones for a better tumbling surface.

I agree with the user above on the aspect of the plastic pellets and you seem to be doing very well with your over all procedure.. However.. dealing with softer stones.. one will have a hard time in getting any type of polish to adhere to the stones.. Using polish compound like cerium oxide instead of the aluminum oxide.. will reduce the "haze" or "milky" discoloration on the stones.. As for the walnut shells.. These should only be used for jewelry and not rock tumbling..

One of your main issues with tumbling softer minerals and stones, is the grouping you placing one type of stone in with another.. When you start getting into more advanced tumbling and minerals.. you'll have to be more precise with the hardnesses. Typically stones like: Amethyst, Smokey Quartz, Citrine, etc are all within an acceptable range for tumbling.. but it's not wise to place a stones hardness of 3 in with a batch of other stones hardness of 7. The 3 will simply round quicker and not polish and corrupt the whole batch.


Image By Wizard (Small Sampling Of Soft Tumbled Stones)

One thing I noticed about your images.. You have left small pockets in many of the stones (which should be cut or shaped away) with these pockets or channels.. Your allowing for corruption or contamination of the batch, by carrying over grit and other material from the last batch. Personally if your happy with the brand of tumbler your using.. stick with it.. Thou I prefer the "Roto" tumbler over the "Vibe" tumblers.. 89% of the persons I have spoke with have the vibe type of tumbler and have never been able to get an adequate polish. In this case I would use the Vibe tumbler for the first two stages then switch to a roto system for the final two or three stages.

P.S. You've caught me in the middle of an on going tumbling process with some Carmel Jasper Located near the Eastern Shore of maryland/delaware. Hoping I have some before and after images as well as documenting the full process at my site: "Adventures With Stone"
]]> Wizard Stone Lapidary and Faceting Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:00:37 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,128557,146850#msg-146850 Re: A technique to process hypersthene in the tumbler? http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,128557,146850#msg-146850
In a tumbler, I find that when getting down to fine grits (500+) and polish stages, adding small plastic pellets to the mix helps cushion stones from striking each other which affects final quality of the shine. One cup pellets to each 4-5 pounds of rocks gets the job done nicely. Pellets are usually available in lapidary supply shops or hobby shops like Michaels. They stock them for stuffing dolls and pillows.

regards,

edse]]> ed "cuervo73" Lapidary and Faceting Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:16:37 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,125069,146849#msg-146849 Re: Polishing Softer Stone With Tagit Vibrahone Tumbler http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,125069,146849#msg-146849
I think that you are missing another ingredient to your mix: plastic pellets. These can be obtained at a lapidary supply or a hobby store like Michaels. Their pellets are used for stuffing dolls, pillows, etc. Pellets play an important role in tumbling also.: they cushion the stones from striking other stones. If you mix in (I forgot how big your Gyroc is) maybe a cup of pellets per 4-5 pounds of stones, it should help alot. I have 5 tumblers: 3 vibrating and 2 rotary. I use the pellets for the last two stages of work: when I use the 500 grit and when I use polish. Try it. I think it will make all the difference.

regards,

edse]]> ed "cuervo73" Lapidary and Faceting Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:02:25 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,28572,145657#msg-145657 Re: 10" Gem Maker Novice Questions http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,28572,145657#msg-145657
Please assist if you can - tregra99 {at} netzero {dot} net]]> SteveK Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:56:16 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145629#msg-145629 Re: Dopping http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145629#msg-145629 Wizard Stone Lapidary and Faceting Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:07:22 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145429#msg-145429 Re: Dopping http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145429#msg-145429
Our mistakes (assuming I average all the different approaches I heard about) with the super glue:

1) We did not carefully clean the stone and dop with alcohol before glueing
2) Possibly during transfer, pushed the stone too far into the cone, meaning there was very little glue holding things together
3) We MAY (and I mean may) have pulled the stone out slightly form the cone after pushing in - allowing air in.


As for the black wax dopping - wow. The number of varieties of approaches are incredible. And our mistakes were numerous. I think the dop pot, while I have heard some people use it causes far to omany problems and prevents a lot of helpful techniques. So, again I took a lot of different people's advice and the result is an almost complete stone (#3). The crown need polishing and the table needs doing. But everything is holding together. I think our mistakes here were

1) The recommended technique to heat the stone was to leave it on the edge of the dop pot for a minute. I tried it again today and the stone didn't even warm! So, this approach did not get the stone warm enough to accept the wax!

2) The dop put rim did not heat the dop stick enough either so the dop stick did not accept the wax very well (maybe I was too impatient here).

In either case I went out and got a propane torch and everything went very smoothly from there! We have a newly wax dopped stone, mostly faceted already.]]> Jessica and Robert Simonoff Lapidary and Faceting Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:46:37 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145154#msg-145154 Re: Dopping http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,145154#msg-145154 Wizard Stone Lapidary and Faceting Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:27:18 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,144951#msg-144951 Re: Dopping http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,144951#msg-144951
For dopping you do so: take the gem with your fingers, heat slowly rough gem and wax(black or green as you like) when gem are warm put some warm wax on gem on table side, heat the dop and the wax, when are both warm put some wax on dop, so dopping the gem, if necessary heat dop,gem, and wax. When are all cool you can cut. When you polish the gem you make attention, sometimes polish can heat stone and wax, when wax comes warm you can loose the angle facet.

When you finish to polish gem facet, you do another times the first dopping. Take the gem with your fingers, heat the gem culet and wax, when are both warm put some wax on gem culet. Put dop with gem on transfer, heating a "new" dop( for example " V " form dop) and wax, when are both warm, put some wax on dop, put it on transfer and push together. So heat the "new" dop, because is necessary for heat the wax on dop and the wax on gem.

When are all cool, heat a first dop( for example on table gem), so very slowly you can take off the wax with knife, and start to faceting the crown.
When you finish to polish the crown heat the dop and take the gem. When are cool for take off the wax you can use knife or if the gem are soft you can use a alcool or acetone. Generally i use acetone for all stone because after 3 minutes make clean from wax.

For soft gem is necessary use epoxsy glue or other cool glue

p.s. Sorry for my bad english.]]> Alessio Piccioni Lapidary and Faceting Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:17:52 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,138303,144949#msg-144949 Re: Faceting Rhodochrosite http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,138303,144949#msg-144949 Alessio Piccioni Lapidary and Faceting Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:29:53 +0000 http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,144857#msg-144857 Re: Dopping http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,57,144682,144857#msg-144857 Ray Hill Lapidary and Faceting Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:29:24 +0000