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LocalitiesCalifornia, USA

29th Apr 2010 15:53 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Welcome to the California talk forum!


This page is created to provide a forum for Mindat contributors/users with an interest in improving the California state and sub-locality files. All with such an interest are welcome to use it. All manner of issues dealing with the California project are permitted and interaction is encouraged.


I envision this utility as a means of exchanging information and coordinating efforts to avoid conflicts such as two people starting work on the same area without each others knowledge.


Chet Lemanski

29th Apr 2010 16:00 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Right now I am continuing to add in data extracted from Murdoch & Webb (1966) and Pemberton (1983). I am almost finished with localities beginning with "G." Thereafter I still have "H" to "K" and "S" thru "Z" plus some prolific localities which I have shelved until the end.


Thus far this effort has resulted in the addition of many of the mining district and mountain range files and numerous intermediate locality files (towns and other features). The county files are now complete (we were missing a few). A relatively large number of duplicated files were identified (and are still being found) and consolidated with subsequent editing to merge all data within the combined data fields.

30th Apr 2010 02:33 UTCJim Bean 🌟

Great to see locality info opened up to comments and your efforts in adding all this info are appreciated, Chet.

30th Apr 2010 12:11 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks Jim!

1st May 2010 16:48 UTCJake Harper Expert

Hi Chet,

My small library contains some great references on Calaveras County, CA mines and minerals and I am currently working on descriptions and locality info for:

Gwin mine, Calaveras Co., California, USA


Could you let me know how to go about obtaining Latitude / Longitude for this mine?

Ah... questions from beginners!


Thanks much in advance,


Jake

1st May 2010 18:55 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


They are: 38°16'33"N, 120°45'29"W - got them, from: http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/


You can also use: http://peabody.research.yale.edu/COLLECTIONS/


With this latter site go to the last button down on the right side (GNIS database) and click on it. Fill in the data you want to search for and search. I have these on my favorites list and use them very frequently when I add in the intermediate levels in the locality strings (towns, mountains, etc.). Don't forget that when you enter coordinates into Mindat you have to go back after submitting them and change the longitude from E to W and re-submit or else your North American localities will show up in China!.

1st May 2010 22:56 UTCJake Harper Expert

Excellent. Thanks a million, Chet!

2nd May 2010 17:12 UTCJake Harper Expert

Hello Chet,

I am currently working on:

Green Mountain mine, Chile Gulch, South of Mokelumne Hill, Mokelumne Hill area, Calaveras Co., California, USA.


However, I did notice there is another entry for this locality that includes Chile Gulch and Rough Diamond crystal mine from "Tuolumne County":

http://www.mindat.org/lsearch.php?from=nsearch&loc=chile%2Bgulch

This is incorrect, as the both the Green Mountain and Rough Diamond are both located in Chile Gulch, South of Mokelumne Hill, Mokelumne Hill area, Calaveras County. (15 mi away, in my back yard)


Jake

2nd May 2010 23:45 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


When you find a duplicate like that and you know what the correct data are, just correct it. In this case, simply delete Tuolumne Co. and replace it with Calaveras Co.


Nice write ups on these localities!

3rd May 2010 00:00 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


I eliminated the 3 duplicated files and edited the combined data to eliminate the stuff from the deleted files. Please have a look at it now and see if it is correct. Thanks!


Chet

3rd May 2010 00:02 UTCAnonymous User

Mark Mauthner,


I appreciate you coming online to help with some of the California pegmatite localities.


If you feel that the Oceanview/Elizabeth R. mine area is not accurately reflected on mindat, please consult with me and we can work out a meaningful correction and update together. I know we need to update the text to reflect the Kunzite find and underground progress, etc.


I am excited to see that you are going to help with Chihuahua Valley and possibly the Cooper Canyon area.


Regards,


Scott

3rd May 2010 01:15 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


One of the tasks that I have been working on as I encounter eligible files is adding in "Mother Lode Belt" in the locality strings of all mines and their districts. If you have references providing these data please keep this effort in mind. "Mother Lode Belt" would go to the immediate left of the county name in the strings (i.e., between the district and the county.

3rd May 2010 02:42 UTCJake Harper Expert

Chet,

The clean-up on the "Moke Hill" localities look PERFECT! Very cool that you Merged the Rocks & Minerals reference instead of removing a very valuable resource.


Thanks also for the addition of "Rich Gulch, Poloma" to the Gwin mine locality: I am still unsure how to go about adding those "middle" data to the locality strings as well as what exactly my abilities/restrictions are when editing these localities. I will certainly keep in mind "Mother Lode Belt" when appropriate. There are actually three belts in the "Mother Lode" area:


The East Belt: Mines located in Mesozoic granite and Granodiorite.

The Pocket (central) Belt: Mines located in Calaveras formation and Mesozoic Granitic intrusions.

The Mother Lode Belt: Mines located in Calaveras and Mariposa formation rocks to the west.

From the excellent Mineralogical Record article by Wayne Leicht: Gold occurrences in Tuolumne County, California, Vol. 18 #1, 1987.


Jake

3rd May 2010 13:38 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


You can make the changes. If you don't know how to merge duplicate files yet let me know. Adding in the intermediate steps is rather simple. Usually the nearest town. If it is more than about 3 miles in a more crowded area, or about 10 miles in a wilderness or desert area, I use "area" after the town. I also use "area" if the nearest town/feature is in an adjacent county. Distance and direction help. If there is firm information that the locality is in, on or near a river, in a canyon, on a mountain, then that feature is in the string, before the town name (usually). If something is "near" a mountain, it is obviously not "on" the mountain, so it is also then "area" after the mountain name.


Chet


I was aware of three belts but I haven't educated myself very much on the two others (east & middle). You can add them as required.

31st May 2010 23:33 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Can you please take a look at the new In-Ko-Pah Gorge file added by Jolyon?? I corrected the spelling and add in some location relationship data to Ocotillo and Jacumba. Is the gorge within the mountains of the same name (I take it that it is not). Does nthe gorge extend into San Diego County?? If not, should we correct the file to Imperial County? BAsed on your description of the Jacumba District, it extends into Imperial County - correct?? If so we need to make an entry for the district in that county as well and explain that it is an extension of the district from San Diego County. Thanks!


Chet

1st Jun 2010 00:06 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

This was to accommodate an entry from Rruff.

1st Jun 2010 00:16 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jolyon,


I am aware of that - we needed the entry, but I am questioning the acuracy of the locale particulars and Scott should know more than I do in this case.

1st Jun 2010 01:55 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Excellent - was a little worried i'd just dropped some crap in that upset your neat organization, glad you're dealing with it!


Jolyon

1st Jun 2010 02:09 UTCAnonymous User

Okay, I was wondering why the Jacumba District http://www.mindat.org/loc-195122.html had become broken. I first noticed the problem when a locality was added called the In-Ko-Pah Mts (In-Ko-Pah Range), San Diego Co., California, USA http://www.mindat.org/loc-209424.html.


By error or omission, the Jacumba District has become both a sublocality of In-Ko-Pah Mts (In-Ko-Pah Range), and a separate top level locality. Based on the existing input, the district has both the In-Ko-Pah mountains and the Jacumba Mountains, as well as many peaks, gorges, canyons, etc.


Chet, If there are no other issues I will fix what we have so far for the Jacumba District and make sense of it all. Is there a consensus on splitting the Jacumba District into two separate sublocalities of both San Diego and Imperial counties?


Jolyon, I can also correct the county and town errors on the new page for In-Ko-Pah Gorge http://www.mindat.org/loc-217652.html.


It's probably historically important to note that the Jacumba District was around prior to Imperial County being created by the splitting of San Diego County. I'll add this information to the district pages, and make the other corrections tonight if there are no objections.


Update: Corrections have been made, can use a few more hours of work for sure, but will likely wait for live cache clearing software update.


Scott

1st Jun 2010 11:52 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks Scott! I really appreciate the assist on this one. If a district is in 2 counties it needs 2 entries unfortunately. When I touched this yesterday I noticed the mess with this area. Unless I find new localities to add, I shouldn't be touching this anymore.


Chet

6th Jun 2010 23:20 UTCJake Harper Expert

Greetings Chet,

Located a very questionable locality here: http://www.mindat.org/loc-29593.html

I have never heard of the Gwin mine 2, nor can I find any references at all in the literature.


Perhaps you might have something?


Thanks a'million,

Jake


P.S.

I would not feel comfortable deleting an entry without looking under every rock.

8th Jun 2010 18:51 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jake,


Actually it was quite a large hydraulic mine. Researched it on Google. Please check out the revised file. Thanks!!


Chet

10th Jun 2010 04:14 UTCJake Harper Expert

Thanks Chet - I do not know why I did not think to locate these online references - fantastic (my brain just grew!).

My wife and I actually know the Pitto family, but were not aware that they actually owned the Gwin mine!! Your help is so much appreciated.


On an unrelated subject, I recently obtained permission from Wendell Wilson to reproduce portions of the Mineralogical Record article on New Melones California axinite for Mindat: http://www.mindat.org/loc-3447.html

All of the text is ready for upload, however, I have a few images including a map and a chart displaying paragenetic sequences that will need inclusion. Do I simply upload these images to Mindat for inclusion, or can I use an alternate URL with HTML "image" code to insert the images from my server?


Many thanks in advance,

Jake

10th Jun 2010 08:28 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

> Do I simply upload these images to Mindat for inclusion,

> or can I use an alternate URL with HTML "image" code to insert the images from my server?


Please upload the images to mindat - there are various options within the "Other" photo classification that may be appropriate for your images.


External images aren't acceptable here. In 10 years time your server could be dead and the images unavailable when people view your articles, or worse still the domain name could be in the hands of someone else who could replace your images with something malicious.


Jolyon

10th Jun 2010 16:45 UTCJake Harper Expert

You got it, Jolyon - will do!


Jake

26th Jun 2010 00:27 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Milestone reached (in a way). I finished up the K's today, meaning that A through R are done. I will start the S's tomorrow. After I finish the outstanding localities which I have on cards, I will be adding the county level references, starting with the southernmost counties (I did San Diego County already) and then go back into these same counties and tidy up the remaining locality files resulting from Dave's bot extraction of the MRDS database. That will get me out of these southernmost counties and out of Scott's hair. The remaining counties will probably be addressed alphabetically in the same manner.

26th Jun 2010 00:41 UTCRock Currier Expert

Thats a lot of work. We need ten more like Chet.

26th Jun 2010 02:38 UTCJim Bean 🌟

Much appreciated, Chet!

28th Jun 2010 23:11 UTCDave Bese

First week of May I ventured down to Coulterville for Mariposite. The Icon on the Mindat map is off by a few blocks. The site is on the first curve of CA 132 west of the intersection with CA 49. Long; -120.19810, Lat; 37.70883


I need to take pix as I also found small pyrites along with the quartz and mariposite and pyrite isn't listed here.

16th Aug 2010 04:22 UTCPaul Favia 🌟

First, thanks to Chet and Jake for this effort... I would like to add the following locality for some interesting California Quartz, which I do not think is listed currently.


Would appreciate any guidance as to how to add this locality myself......


Quartz


Occurs in albite dike, well formed crystals to 3 cm in pockets, all crystals found as floaters with fractured surface "healed" with small terminations.


Location is roadcut on Hwy 49, 1/2 mile south of Bagby Bridge, Mariposa County, California. N37 36.37, W120 8.069. It has been covered up by debris in road clearing activity and is not accessible at present

16th Aug 2010 15:05 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Paul,


Thank you for your interest in Mindat and the California project.


You can start by reading the Mindat manual on entering localities. This locale would be entered as:


State highway 49 roadcut, Bagby Bridge, Mariposa Co., California, USA.


Since there is no entry for Bagby Bridge yet you would go to the Mariposa Co. file, select "add sublocality" and then type in "Bagby Bridge" to the left of the main locality name line. Then submit the entry with the "submit" button near the bottom of the page. Next, go to "view locality page" for this new file, select "add sublocality" and repeat the function by typing in "State highway 49 roadcut" to the left on the main locality name line and submit. Now go to "view locality page" again. Enter "A quartz occurrence located 1/2 mile S of Bagby Bridge along highway 49." and the comments about its not being accessible. Enter the geographical coordinates in the appropriate boxes near the bottom and "submit" again.


Select "view locality page" again. Now enter the mineral species by selecting "add minerals" near the top of the page. List the minerals (don't forget the albite) and enter an appropriate reference at the bottom of the page. Select "submit." Now, you can click on each of the 2 species in turn and select "associated minerals" from the row of buttons along the top. Check the boxes to relate each of the 2 species to each other, select "submit" each time. Finally, on the page for the quartz, go to the "comments" box and enter the data: "Occurs in albite dike, well formed crystals to 3 cm in pockets, all crystals found as floaters with fractured surface "healed" with small terminations." Hit "submit" again. You should now be finished. Go to the locality page to proof your data.


Chet Lemanski

17th Aug 2010 04:33 UTCPaul Favia 🌟

Chet


Thanks so much for your mentoring, but I regret I may need a bit more. The locality is successfully loaded, but I cant seem to link in the minerals. When I go to the "add minerals" page type in the names, my references, and then hit the "Add/Update box, the minerals are loaded, but dont show up on the locality page. Probably something glaringly obvious that I am missing


Despite my embarrassment, I will greatly appreciate any assistance


Thanks


PF

17th Aug 2010 06:25 UTCLyla J. Tracy

Greetings,


I see some locality information has been changed on my Home Page. I have shown photos of some gold specimens from the mine currently named Eagles Nest. However, that is a more recent name, and the actual name of the mine when these specimens were produced, prior to the 1950s was DeMaria/Garbe.


The daughter of the former owners, Dawn DeMaria is a close friend of mine and inherited this gold collection on the death of her mother.


Lyla

17th Aug 2010 13:35 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Thanks, Lyla, All photos on Mindat should be entered under the current mine name. We should add older names and alternative names in parentheses after the current name. And of course in your photo caption you can mention the time period when the specimen was collected and what the mine name was then, if you like.


The Eagle's Nest locality description on Mindat currently mentions the De Maria mine as a "sublocality" of the Eagle's Nest deposit. We should probably add this name to the locality heirarchy. And how does "Garbe" fit into this? Same place, different era? Do you happen to know which year the name was changed?

17th Aug 2010 13:44 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Paul,


You did good! The only thing missing (and I filled it in for you) was a reference for the occurrence on each mineral page. I entered "collected by Paul Favia" for each. There was no problem with the mineral entries, simply that your level of access requires peer review and approval for the entries to appear. They should be there now. You can check the locality page to see the end product. Congratulations on your initial entry!


Chet

17th Aug 2010 15:55 UTCLyla J. Tracy

Thanks Alfredo,


As I understand the history of the mine, Mr. Garbe was an early partner. I will speak to Dawn regarding the dates.


Lyla

18th Aug 2010 09:37 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Is it safe to resume my work on the southern California pegmatite localities?


Scott

18th Aug 2010 13:38 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Right now I am on the "T's" alphabetically for the entire state. My intent is to complete the data input from my extraction cards and then go county by county and tidy up the remaining files which Dave's bot program extracted from MRDS. I will do San Diego County first and then I will then do Imperial County, and at that point, I should be out of your hair. Your can make input anytime you wish but there is no guanantee that our paths won't cross. I am moving as fast as I can right now. Thanks for your patience!


Chet

18th Aug 2010 14:22 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Thanks for the reply, I'll give you the space you need. No worries.


On another note, and I know it's a can of worms - are we going to be listing mineral springs as valid mineral localities in the db?


Scott

18th Aug 2010 14:51 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

If a mineral spring deposits any minerals at all (calcite, aragonite, opal, 'sinter", "tufa", whatever) then it could certainly be listed, If it produces nothing but the water, then it would be irrelevant for our purposes.

18th Aug 2010 16:22 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Ditto on Alfredo's comments. We include any occurrence where a mineral/mineraloid can be identified.

18th Aug 2010 18:55 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Hi Chet, are you interested in and have use for a few old California Journal of Mines and Geology volumes??

I have a smattering of these from the late 1920's to late 1940's. Please let me know and I can ship them to you or bring to the Franklin show at the end of Sept.

Steve.

19th Aug 2010 14:05 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Steve,


Thanks!! My run of these is incomplete and these would be appreciated. Save the dimes & bring them to the show. Thanks again!!!


Chet

26th Aug 2010 21:23 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


We're gonna have to work on some of your mineral localities within boundaries of towns and state parks, etc. I understand you want to reference those towns and parks or other political boundaries because of other references, which often are inaccurate - so maybe descriptions in those distinct town or park locality pages would be more accurate than arbitrarily putting mineral localities into those jurisdictions where district levels exist?


Scott

27th Aug 2010 17:10 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I think I understand what you are saying but I am not quite sure. Are you referring to those cases where a district may lie both within and outside of a special feature such as a National Park? I include these select features into a locality chain due to the significant difference in the access and ability to collect versus the National Forests, which are far less restricted.


Populated places are designated by the nearest one to the locality, as is USGS practice. Are you referring to those instances wherein the munipality may not lie in another feature, such as a nearby mountain range?


Can you point to some examples for me to evaluate? There will be need for much tweeking once I finish the data extraction cards and tidy up the remaining localities extracted from MRDS by Dave's bot program. If there are glaring errors we can adjust them now; otherwise, I would prefer to wait until all files are in the same format where changes can be made area by area - it should be easier at that point. You might have noticed that occasionally I find a small rats nest of localities with obvious problems and address them on-the-spot. Again, you know much more than I do about California geography and mining districts so I appreciate the oversight and discussion.


Chet

27th Aug 2010 20:14 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Here's a couple of examples of locality string errors resulting from changes you've made:


Carmelita Mine: http://www.mindat.org/loc-73296.html


The Carmelita mine is a unpatented lode mining claim, within a parcel of unappropriated public domain lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, and adjacent to the Cleveland National Forest. This deposit is not located within the jurisdictional land boundaries of the city of Warner Springs. The mine sits on the ridge which divides Chihuahua Valley from the Indian Flats area. I've been debating whether to incorporate either of these names into the locality string.


Cryo-Genie Mine: http://www.mindat.org/loc-15973.html


The Cryo-Genie mine is a unpatented lode mining claim, within public domain lands of the Cleveland National Forest that are open to mineral entry and jointly managed by the Bureau of Land Management and US Forest Service. This deposit is not located within the jurisdictional land boundaries of the city of Warner Springs, and is not within the jurisdictional land boundaries of Anza-Borrego Desert State Park. The mine actually sits on the ridge that divides Ward Canyon and Agua Caliente Creek, which are the closest named features. I've been debating whether to incorporate either of these names into the locality string.


BAT Pocket: http://www.mindat.org/loc-55915.html


Inadvertently, when you made these changes, you also severed the sublocality string for the Cryo-Genie BAT pocket.


I would appreciate if we discuss these types of changes in advance, at least for the pegmatite localities that I am working on. You should be aware that regulatory agencies are using the database on mindat to advance their agenda, and have been suggesting that the areas listed within the city limits of Warner Springs on mindat are now within their jurisdiction, based solely on those changes you've made.


I know it seems silly, and obviously a legally untenable position, but some of these younger people thrust into positions of regulatory authority are not necessarily as well educated in these matters as you or I am. The guys at the Cryo-Genie have already encountered serious permitting delays and problems based on these simple erroneous changes to the locality string on mindat, which is why I feel we should more careful when listing localities as a sublocality within a particular government jurisdiction, and think of unintended consequences.


In other words we should expect that if we give them an inch, they'll take a mile.


In these cases, the "District" is already named after the nearest populated area or major landmark, which is Warner Springs, and the city of Warner Springs is listed as a distinct, separate locality or point of reference in that District-wide area, so searches are not hindered by the separation in the locality string. In this case, I'd prefer to keep it that way. The same would apply to the Pala District, and the Cahuilla District, etc. Of course these were never official organized mining districts, but the segregation of the deposits into a district format helps to alleviate problems of perceived authority, and narrow the search results into a tidy package of reasonable and relevant data.


I appreciate the work your doing, and I enjoy our discussions. We can discuss the merits of using Hanks as a genuine reference for localities he never described at a future time. ;)


Scott

27th Aug 2010 22:10 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Not necessarily disagreeing with either of you gentlemen, Chet or Scott, but keep in mind that a hierarchy level on Mindat (like "Warner Springs" ) does not in any way imply political jurisdiction. The names of populated places (like Warner Springs) are generally far better known, and easier to find on a road map, than obscure Flats, and so there is a long tradition among collectors, museums, literature authors, of listing the nearest populated place on locality labels. It makes collectors' lives easier and, again, is not intended to imply any legal or political jurisdiction. If we start eliminating from Mindat locality hierarchies all levels that are not jurisdictional, we open an immense can of worms, and a lot of work, for many parts of the globe, not just California. So I would vote not to remove Warner Springs from the locality string, if that is the nearest named populated place.

27th Aug 2010 22:45 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Alfredo,


I agree with you about populated places, the main point I am trying to make is avoiding the use of political boundaries, which in this case would be inclusion of the Cryo-Genie mine into the Anza-Borrego Desert State Park, when it is not even close to those boundaries, let alone within the geographic boundaries. I have no problem including the nearest populated town in the strings, although they should definitely be below the District in the string hierarchy, because many Districts encompass multiple populated places.


IMO, the localities within the State Park system, Wilderness management areas, or National Parks etc. should be referenced to in the individual locality text. If we start (which we have) using arbitrary political boundaries which are subject to future changes, the workload will be unnecessarily increased in order to make appropriate changes to hundreds or thousands of individual strings to maintain accuracy, plus it increases the likelihood of errors like the ones I am pointing out here, and all those devilish complications that can arise.


Just trying to point out the impact and unforeseen consequences of our actions here, so we can minimize them where possible and prudent.


Scott

27th Aug 2010 23:04 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

In these cases Warner Springs is the nearest populated place on the maps. There is nothing whatsoever that dictates that a location must be within the jurisdictional boundary of the nearest populated place to list that ppl in the string. As Alfredo pointed out, using only the nearest (and often obscure) geograhical/topographical features would provide little assistance to Mindat users. If these features are not listed in the USGS GNIS database (or the Yale/Peabody GNIS database), then they would only provide confusion outside the context of a readily identifiable ppl or other major feature. Only listing a municipal or other ppl name in cases wherein the mine etc. lies within the municipal corporate limit or recognized town "boundary" would result in very, very few localities being attributed to a named ppl. This is not to mention the tremendous amount of work involved in changing it across the database (can't have a relatively limitless number of policies for this aspect of input), and the relatively useless remnant locality files gathering dust in Mindat.


If regulators are intent on acting like idiots, there is little we can do to stop them. Blaming their actions on Mindat is absurd. Connecting a locality with a municipal jurisdiction by mentioning the jurisdiction in Mindat (an unofficial, private, international reference database) as the nearest ppl, versus making a legal/official regulatory decision/actions based on legal maps and plots of incorporated areas, or other official legal documents, is absolutely, and insanely absurd. Which regulatory agency are we talking about in this instance????


As far as the district name (in this case) already including "Warner Springs," does not necessarily mean that all of the localities within the district are closer to Warner Springs than to another named ppl. That may be the case, but it may not. In many districts this is not the case. Again, we would be generating special rules for single localities or groups of localities, which we try to avoid.


If I had noted that I had severed the link with the BAT pocket I would have immediately fixed it. I am fixing analogous situations almost daily as I modify locality strings. This one can easily be fixed. There have been repeated conversations among management on Mindat regarding the inclusion of sub-localities within mines. Right now they are still in, but are discouraged unless truly exceptional. This no judgement on this particular instance.


I don't mind posting a discussion/proposed course of action on these localities in the future. I am nearing completion on my input based on data extraction over the past several years. After that, I will be working almost exclusively with the existing data in Mindat which was extracted from the USGS MRDS by Dave's bot program. As I stated in an earlier post, I will complete the MRDS tidy up for San Diego County first, Imperial County next, and then turn these 2 counties over to you. Riverside County is one of the really big ones and will wait its turn.


I added in the distance statistics for the Carmelita to clearly reflect its distance from Warner Springs. The Carmelita string could include the element: "Chihuahua Valley - Indian Flats divide," while the Cryo-Genie can similarly contain the element: "Ward Canyon - Agua Caliente Creek divide."


Chet

28th Aug 2010 00:06 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Thanks, I had already noted the distance from Warner Springs in the Carmelita locality text under the Setting heading, so deleted your addition, but included the distance in kilometers as has been suggested by Jolyon. Of course when I get around to editing these specific localities I will update the distance references to include standard and metric. There is no rush, I just wanted to point out these types of errors I have noticed.


When I get started again after your work is completed, I will be sure to include the nearest named town or populated place in the locality hierarchy string, underneath the district holder.


I am not attributing overzealous regulators' actions as the responsibility of mindat, but simply letting you know that mindat has now (apparently) overtaken these other gps driven mineral data sources as the "go-to" source for information by many regulatory agencies. This is obviously a testament to the great work of the contributors here, yourself included (obviously). I don't feel comfortable putting the heat on any specific agency, nor do I feel that it would solve any particular issue at this point in time. I hope you understand my feelings on this.


Thanks again, I love discussing these things with you and Alfredo and the group as a whole, and I appreciate you taking the time to make corrections, suggestions, and clarity of policy etc.


Scott

28th Aug 2010 17:08 UTCLyla J. Tracy

Greetings,


I have noticed on my home page that the name (Omega District) has been added to my locality for the Red Ledge mine. As the previous owner/operator of the Red Ledge, I am curious why this was done. Lyla

28th Aug 2010 18:38 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Lyla,


The Red Ledge Mine, Washington, Nevada County, California, is in the Washington District (Omega District). If you go to the file for the District, the Red Ledge is in the clump of mines depicted on the map with the Mindat tourmaline icons. It is at the lower left of the clump. Placing your cursor over the icons will reveal their identity. I hope that this answers your question. Thanks for your continued interest in Mindat.

29th Aug 2010 17:51 UTCLyla J. Tracy

Thank you Chet, however I would like to know what the source material was for the reference to the "Omega District"? Lyla

29th Aug 2010 21:53 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

The reference is the one on the locality page for the district:


Murdoch, Joseph & Robert W. Webb (1966), Minerals of California, Centennial Volume (1866-1966): California Division of Mines & Geology Bulletin 189: 545.


The entry for the "Omega District" among the list of California mining districts on that page refers you to the Washington District.


Chet

8th Sep 2010 17:17 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I have arrived at my data card for the Vanderburg Mine, Pala. The data I have include additional species (Phenakite, Topaz, Stibiotantalite, Heterosite, Triplite, Vivianite, Pucherite, Cookeite and Bertrandite), not yet listed (references include Janhs & Wright (1951) and Pemberton (1983). There are also additional references to Cleavelandite, Sicklerite and Purpurite. Do you have these on your to-do list? Can I add them??


Chet

8th Sep 2010 22:38 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Your merge of the Vanderberg mine with the KC Naylor mine was totally inappropriate and unacceptable.


Additionally, you need to stop using references that pre-date the discovery of the deposit(s). It is impossible to use a reference to a text older than the deposit discovery as a bona fide mineral ID reference.


There is no topaz known from the Pala District. Is this another Pemberton reference? I warned you in advance about how inaccurate the Pemberton book is, please stop using it on the localities I am working on without checking his references in advance.


You have now increased my work load for naught and jacked up another two pegmatite localities. Are you done monkey wrenching yet? B)-


Scott

9th Sep 2010 01:51 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I'm trying to keep this civil at the moment. Based on the changes log for this locality, it was merged almost exactly one year ago, apparently predicated upon the posting of a photo by someone else:

21/Sep/09 22:22 Update by Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. (lemanskibirds7@comcast.net)

Changed name from 'Vanderberg Mine (MS 5391; Vanderburg; Vandenburg; Naylor-Vanderburg; Sickler; Naylor Rock), Hiriart Mountain (Heriart; Heriot; Hiriat Hill), Pala District, San Diego Co., California, USA' to 'Vanderberg Mine (MS 5391; Vanderburg; Vandenburg; Naylor-Vanderburg; K.C. Naylor Mine; Sickler; Naylor Rock), Hiriart Mountain (Heriart; Heriot; Hiriat Hill), Pala District, San Diego Co., California, USA'

Changed Lat/Long from '33/22/33N 117/2/11W' to '33/22/33N 117/2/11W'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


21/Sep/09 22:23 AUTO MERGED with entry 55869

25/Aug/04 11:05 New entry by Dr. Robert Lavinsky (rob@irocks.com)

Added name 'Naylor Rock, Pala, San Diego Co., California, USA '

Added Lat/Long '// //'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

26/Aug/04 00:01 Added minerals - by Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. (lemanskibirds7@comcast.net)

Elbaite"




The photo was apparently that of elbaite and the way it was titled led to this action. I added the elbaite based on this. You were not yet on my radar one year ago! Dividing the file back out may be a bit of work, but hardly a major onerous project. I have had to undo many such mergers in the past.


The topaz issue is based on a Murdoch & Webb entry citing Jahns and Wright (1951), page 31.

You have now increased my work load for not and jacked up another two pegmatite localities. Are you done monkey wrenching yet?



I have been trying to cooperate with you since you came up on my radar. The reason you responded today is because I reached out to you prior to making any more changes to this file. I have repeatedly stated that I am not an expert on California and that I am tackling a large project to improve the chaos with this state in view of its significance. By the way, the word is naught, not "not." By the way, I don't even own a monkey wrench.

9th Sep 2010 08:14 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Thanks for catching my typo.


Now, if you would have looked, I had already placed the Naylor Rock locality under the Vanderberg mine. The problem is Rob didn't search for the locality, so he added it again. He has had a tendency of doing this in the past. If you would have looked at Hiriart Mountain, you would have seen that there was already a locality entry covering Naylor Rock, which is really a sub locality of the Vanderberg mine.


The KC Naylor mine is a separate locality and pegmatite, and my text for both sites was completely distinct and also addressed the whole name and location confusion issue. If you would have read the two page texts prior to combining the two localities into one text, you wouldn't have made such a glaring error. I spent years putting the data together, you destroyed my efforts in a matter of minutes, and mucked up history once again for the masses. You could have easily emailed me based on the page changes log, but I never heard from you. Why naught?(sic) B)


So, please, no worries, and you should know by now I respect you like the mindat brother you are to me... but you have made dozens of changes after promising me you would consult with me prior to making them, some of which we have already discussed after the fact via email. I understand the frustration both ways, so maybe you can forgive me for rattling your cage, esp. considering the extra work that will have to be done based on some of these errors we have already discussed, and many more which I know I will have to correct.


Don't even get me going on your uncommon list of references based on date versus the common use of alphabetical order refined by date! This creates more problems than it's worth in my opinion. :P


Ah yes, the Pala topaz conundrum:


Page 31, Table 3 contains several entries which were observed by the authors, Jahns and Wright, which were later proven inconsistent or outright erroneous as reflected in later published data as well as later field observations during more recent mining activities.


From page 31 through 42 covering principal minerals and other minerals makes no mention of topaz, and there is only a mention of the chemical fluorine in 'pocket pegmatite' on page 21, which states "fluorine... or combinations of these elements".


The only mention of the mineral Topaz in the whole report is on page 27 for 'other units', described under 'replacement bodies' which says: "Numerous accessory species are present in some of the pegmatites, but rarely in more than very small quantities. They include... topaz".


It is impossible to attribute Topaz to a specific mine or prospect or pegmatite locality, based on Jahns data. I would say this could be a legacy artifact related to recycling data from earlier manuscripts published on other pegmatites by Jahns, if it is in fact an error.


Therefore, based solely on page 31, Table 3, the only localities in Pala using this chart as a nebulous reference for topaz (which is likely erroneous in my opinion,and should be noted as such), the species topaz would only apply to the page for Hiriart Mountain (not common occurrence), and the page for Chief Mountain (very rare occurrence). No specific mine site or prospect locality should be used for the Jahns and Wright 1951 reference.


Scott

9th Sep 2010 12:50 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Thank you for your response. I am virtually done with the initial state of this project (I am now in the "V's"). There should be little, if any, additional issues with the files you have worked on. One thing to keep in mind is that it is Mindat policy to enter and retain species occurrence entries which are later found to be erroneous. They should be entered and categorized as "erroneously reported" on the entry page. This puts a black line through the entry and records the erroneous reference(s). This then presents anyone who later comes along with an intent to make the entry again clearly aware of the error and that there is no need to re-enter it because we have already been there. There have been quite a few instances wherein we have had the same same errors re-entered without this sort of indicator.


I apologize for any impact that I have had on your project. I will check all files in the San Diego-Imperial-Riverside Counties for any efforting on your part. If there is any, I'll give you a push first.


I am absolutely certain that when I am done with the California files that there will be many errors based on the literature, MRDS, myself and other factors (such as a lack of data in the literature). I have corrected many hundreds, if not thousands, of errors during the course of this project. This includes placing names on occurrences which Murdoch & Webb listed as unnamed, and the elimination of hundreds of duplicated localities. This process is multi-step and requires validation of physical location by description in the literature & MRDS, so far as is possible based on the data present. There are still mining districts where the MRDS coordinates for individual mines place them far outside the boundaries of the mining districts in which they are situated according to MRDS. Eventually, the California project will require the efforts of a greater number of California collectors to fill in the blanks. My collecting group records GPS coordinates of localities which we visit, but, at best, that is a very few localities, especially in California.


Chet

11th Sep 2010 18:16 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I have additional data on the Vista Chief. Alternate names are: Moosa Canyon deposit; Freeman deposit. Kunzite is listed as unverified (Kunz; F.J.H. Merrill - both references you already have in the file). I also have multiple references for Ferroaxinite (Schaller (1911b); W.A. Deer et al (1962, Vol. 1: 322; F.H. Weber (1963a): 114; and Sanero & Gottard (1968): 1408). Are you waiting to do additional work on this locality?


Chet

11th Sep 2010 22:52 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Yeah, I'm going to work on these in the future, but feel free to make whatever changes you feel are necessary.


Bonsall http://www.mindat.org/loc-209632.html, should have the Hanks reference deleted (they predate any discovery on the ground), the 1905 Kunz references are the first reported. Moosa Canyon http://www.mindat.org/loc-180848.html, needs to be a sublocality of Bonsall, right now Bonsall is a sub locality of Moosa Canyon.


The Kunzite references for the Vista Chief http://www.mindat.org/loc-91689.html and Mountain Belle http://www.mindat.org/loc-91473.html, are very questionable, and most likely erroneous (bogus).


I've spoken with several parties who investigated these dikes prior to the modern housing construction in the area, and there was no sign of lithia mineralization in the pegmatites around the old diggings (shallow trenches). The tourmaline (black) was noted, as well as the quartz, but no sign of colored tourmaline or lithia mineralization was visible. The axinite and laumontite shown to Schaller was supposed to be by the falls which was likely another dike in the area. I will add separate coordinates for this occurrence in the future.


In my opinion, based on the observations over the last century, the lithia gem minerals in the Moosa Canyon were purchased from the operations in nearby Pala and used to entice investors or to sell the claims during the peak of the gemstone rush in the region. This subject was mentioned by Murdoch and Webb. However, anything is possible (in theory), and I never visited the area myself, so it remains questionable.


Scott

11th Sep 2010 23:03 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks Scott. In view of this info I will just leave this one entirely to you.

1st Oct 2010 19:58 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


I'm beginning to go through again and add localities and correct mistakes for the areas I am familiar with in southern California. I have noticed you have gone to great lengths to change the reference format on the locality pages. I am unfamiliar with your referencing system, specifically your use of comma's after placing the date of publication in parenthesis (example: Surname, Forename (Year), Title of Report...).


All of the reading material and writing guidelines I have do not use a comma after a date in parenthesis for a bibliography or reference list, whether it be in alphabetical or chronological. Could you please explain why you have chosen to use this unconventional format, provide any references to where it is used in scientific, or otherwise used in similar styles of reporting; and if not, an explanation of the perceived benefits of utilizing a comma after the publication year placed in parenthesis.


Additionally, I would ask you to not use the arcane method of bunching the author's initials together (example: Kunz, G.F.), but preserve the space between initials (example: Kunz, G. F.)


Also, the benefits of chronological ordering of references for minerals listed at a site are obvious, and I am in full concurrence - although it seems duplicative to list all references for the same mineral post initial reference, I understand this will help track down erroneous mineral listings); but I do not understand the benefit for listing references on locality pages underneath the text area in chronological order, versus alphabetical order - which is the preferred and common referencing method.


Please advise, as this information will also be helpful to other contributors for California.


Scott

1st Oct 2010 20:21 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Scott:


Although adding a comma after the year is not normally done, we can't be so strict - Mindat is not a scientific journal but a web database, and we have to live with having about 15-20 different formats of citations used. If you look in wikipedia, they also have lots of different formats.


"the arcane method of bunching the author's initials together"


I disagree - there are lots of journals who require this in their notes of authors.



"but I do not understand the benefit for listing references on locality pages underneath the text area in chronological order, versus alphabetical order - which is the preferred and common referencing method."


I disagree - especially in mineralogy and in a dedicated database such as Mindat, chronological order is much more useful, also since only very few localities have more than 10-20 refs.

It's different when you write a (+/-) scientific article which usually has 20-60 refs.

1st Oct 2010 21:58 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I think that Uwe covered most of the issues. "Bunching" the initials of the authors saves database space - thousands and thousands of blank spaces. Virtually noone uses a double space after a colon or semi-colon any longer. This practice also "grates" against my education in the English language, but it is also a space saver so I go right along with it. The age of the computer has virtually eliminated the comma between 3-character segments of large numeric strings. This is a computer age change in our written communication practices. I don't like it, but that is the way it is. I use it when I state distances in feet for example. There are other such space-saving practices in use throughout the database. It is insignificant in a single file - much more relevent in the big picture.


Mindat has several unique formats. They allow identification of Mindat data that might be used without permission, for example. Besides, what states that a new format can not be used in Mindat?? The comma is such a minutial issue to get wrapped around the axle about. Please lighten up! I have been over many thousands of referenced publications extracted from many sources. I found over time that many had very confusing formats, especially when a publication is divided into a series, volume, number, pages, plates and maps. Some also have "editions" and "parts" just to make it a bit more confusing. Contributors tend to use their own formats, often inventing the abbreviations. This has been very confusing in the past. Since there were virtually NO references in Mindat locality files, and relatively few in species files when I joined the project shortly after its inception, there was a lot of "trail blazing" required to get it to where it is today. I have no regrets. At any point along the way, if Jolyon mandated a particular format, or the management team voted to adopt one, that is what I would be using. It is hard enough to get everyone to use one of the few mandates which we have - "Mine" and "Quarry" are capitalized when used in a locality name string (unless they are "unnamed") and other terms are not - e.g.: deposit, adit, claim, etc.


Listing references in chronological order is convenient to provide Mindat users with the latest and greatest data on a particular locality at the end of the list, without being required to scan the list to find the most recent data. The latest is usually the greatest, but it is all relevent, including the older, erroneous references, which need to be included to use in the "erroneously reported" species occurrence entries. We need to start using this latter practice more religously to document the errors once and for all time so that the errors are not reintroduced into the database as valid occurrences.


Spelling out entire references for clarity, and using space-saving formats at the end, e.g.: 75(5): 225-226, Pl. C versus vol. 75 No. 5, pp. 225-226, Plate C, or some variation of this, is a tremendous space saver in the database and, if standardized, is easily interpretted by users.


Chet

2nd Oct 2010 00:04 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

"but I do not understand the benefit for listing references on locality pages underneath the text area in chronological order, versus alphabetical order - which is the preferred and common referencing method."


The main benefit to this alphabetical ordering in an article is that it allows you to easily find the reference that is referred to in the article (most citations use author and year in the main body). Most mindat locality pages don't refer to references in the descriptive section (if there is any descriptive section at all), so much of the benefit really doesn't apply to the database.

2nd Oct 2010 00:29 UTCAnonymous User

Thanks for the response guys,


I'm going to ignore the server space saving formula excuse as total minutia, especially if we are not going to take concrete steps regulate the use of initials versus full names, etc. I don't think server space is a valid issue regarding references, if it was we would not be using multiple references in the minerals section for localities, instead we would use only the first reported reference. Plenty more examples exist of ways to save space, if that indeed was an issue. I think server space and speed will be less of an issue as time goes by and technology advances.


Chronological order is of crucial importance in mineral species listings for sites, but I see little purpose for chronological order for locality pages after the text, especially when many references do not necessarily involve mineral specific data (often they will involve historic people or places only). Like it or not, when people refer to a specific author's text, they always state the author's name, then the date of publication (with or without in-text citations). Even if we agree that listing references in chronological order after the site description text is somehow useful, then why shouldn't the date appear first, followed by the author's name in the references?


Please keep in mind the references for the locality text are not the same as the mineral species listed for a specific locality, I think text references should be listed alphabetically, and mineral references should be listed chronologically. I am willing to accept nearly any reference format, and I am fine with no specific standard on mindat. I like my pants loose fitting anyway.


As a potential future solution, the database storage and page entry code could be written to allow storage of individual reference lists for the locality page (similar to what is done in the minerals section) which could then be user controlled to switch between chronological and alphabetical order. This would be helpful. I am quite familiar with the SQL database design, so I understand the extra strain on system resources, etc., although this is becoming less of an issue with modern server units, I know from experience it is always good to keep things simple, where practical.


Based on Chet's response to the comma issue, I take it this is his personal choice, and I will therefore choose to delete the comma after the year in parenthesis when I add or alter the references section for those specific localities and areas I am currently working on. This comma seems to serve no purpose whatsoever, and is highly unorthodox.


I can go with the chronological order after text since you guys feel it is necessary, but I still prefer spaces between initials for names. I've found that for initialisms, forenames and midnames are properly expressed using a space between the periods (e.g. G. F.), and initials minus space between letters will be used for common words or place names (e.g. U.S.A.) or otherwise substituted by an acronym which should be prefaced prior to subsequent use (e.g. United States of America; USA).


My response here is based on my experience and education, and so we can all agree to disagree, and that's cool. I would prefer that if somebody adds additional references to my list of references used below the locality text, they not alter all of my earlier references' to their own personal format, at least not before contacting me first to discuss the change (i.e. Chet).


Surely out of the thousands of localities in California that need help, it's silly to be wasting time and effort by editing those areas I am working on simply to make the reference format match you own personal preferences or personal library organizational format. Let's continue to try and maximize our resources and time allocation towards the project.


Scott

2nd Oct 2010 00:47 UTCAnonymous User

Hi guys,


Another idea that would be helpful, is mindat markup language for adding in-text citations which would function like the footnotes code already available. This would encourage the use of citations for locality page textual data and articles, although I understand that since we have split the text and references into separate database areas for locality pages, this is currently not an option. Perhaps we should rethink the way references are entered and stored again? It would also basically nullify the chronological versus alphabetical debate, providing quick access to any reference source, regardless of format.


Scott

2nd Oct 2010 20:00 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


I could even be persuaded to retain your commas, if only you would accept my friend request on fbook! B)-


Scott

17th Oct 2010 19:59 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

An update on California:


I'm more than half way through the more prolific/complex localities which I put aside to the end. Crestmore, which I started updating last year, will probably be the last set of files completed. I will then be tidying up the remaining files extracted from MRDS.


Chet Lemanski

20th Oct 2010 23:11 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I "finished" my Kalkar Quarry update this afternoon. There is no description for this file (geology, etc.). There are also still 4 remaining species listed without references: Allanite, Huntite, Symplesite and Powellite. All seem reasonable except the allanite. No pegmatite or pegmatitic rocks described. If anyone has knowledge of this locality, perhaps you can take the time to help "finish" the file. Thanks!


Chet

21st Oct 2010 18:18 UTCAnonymous User

Mark Mauthner,


I've updated the Elizabeth R. mine page http://www.mindat.org/loc-10921.html, and the Oceanview mine adit page http://www.mindat.org/loc-171343.html to reflect the kunzite discovery in 2009, among other relevant data. Please let me know if the information is accurate.


Chet,


One of the references for the Oceanview mine that you added back in September of 2002 is Rocks & Minerals: 63:21. I believe that there is an error in this format, as this bimonthly magazine would only extend from 63:01 to 63:06. Could you please provide a more detailed long format including author, article name, page numbers, and month for the publication so I can accurately update this reference. I don't think I have this available in my personal library at this point in time.


Thanks,


Scott

21st Oct 2010 18:40 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Rocks & Minerals: 63:21 - It's page 21 in volume 63.

Sinkankas, J. (1988) Beryl: A Summary. Rocks & Minerals 63 pp 10-22.

21st Oct 2010 19:10 UTCAnonymous User

David,


Thanks for the help, I've made the appropriate changes to the 1988 Sinkankas reference.


Scott

21st Oct 2010 21:00 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Did we ever come to a conclusion as to whether there is a valid reason to use a comma after the date in a long format reference? So far, I've been following your lead, adding the comma after the date in parenthesis, although I feel this may be erroneous. Typically, if the year is in parenthesis, there will be no comma afterwords, only a space. Alternatively, without the year in parenthesis, a comma or period is commonly used. I don't wish to duplicate errors, if in fact this format was accidentally derived from cutting and pasting from other reference sources. Please let me know if these reference entries should be corrected, or if this is actually your preferred standard long format. If we are going to stick with parenthesis around the year, I would prefer example number 2.


Examples that could be used:


1. Fisher, J. (2002), Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

2. Fisher, J. (2002) Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

3. Fisher, J. 2002, Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

4. Fisher, J. 2002. Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.


Scott

21st Oct 2010 21:00 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


That Rocks & Minerals reference was added way back when. At that time I was too concerned about hard drive space conservation in Mindat so I abbreviated references to the maximum extent possible. Dave has it right. By7 the way, if I am referring to a number within a volume, it is a parenthetical entry (e.g.: 49(3): 333). I don't see the entry you referred to any longer. Was it removed?


By the way, I will be updating all those super abbreviated references in due time. I have many of them across both California and Arizona. I have to access my shelves with the runs of periodicals to do so and it will be more time efficient for me to wait until I get another load or two moved to our Arizona home and have free access to the book stack shelves. I am tracking these in a California bibliography document which I am constantly updating, eventually to be published as a Mindat article once cleaned up to a conventional bibliographical format.

21st Oct 2010 21:10 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I prefer the year in parenthesis followed by a comma. There is no firm "rule" on this. As I stated in the past, Mindat has a few unique formats. I don't care if you don't use the comma, but I do care about the references being in chronological order. The parenthesis around the date make it stand out and is consistent with some other publications, though not all.


By the way, I am now working on the last set of locality files - Crestmore. After that I have several San Diego County locality files set aside and I will be sending you a message with the additional species and references that I have in addition to what you have in the database. Based on Mindat policy, these will either be additional occurrences or they will be entered as "erroneously reported" with relevent references. I will gladly let you make those calls based on your expertise.


The files pending are: Mesa Grande District, Little Three Mine, Himalaya Mine, White Queen Mine, Vista Chief Mine, Victor Mine, Vanden(r)burg-Katerina / Katerina (Catherina), Vanderburg-Naylor, Pala Chief, Pala District, Ramona, Stewart Mine, Mountain Lily. Not all necessarily have additional species but may simply have addition references. I should be sending the data your way within the week.

22nd Oct 2010 00:28 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Ok, comma after year in parenthesis it shall be. I am in the process of reformatting the references in order to list them chronologically, per your request. I'll keep an eye out for data package to update those locality species and/or references.


Scott

22nd Oct 2010 01:26 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

In my view:


1. Fisher, J. (2002), Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

2. Fisher, J. (2002) Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

3. Fisher, J. 2002, Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.

4. Fisher, J. 2002. Gem and rare-element pegmatites of southern California. Mineralogical Record 33(5): 388-389.


Either 1,3 or 4 are fine. 2 is slightly confusing


I don't really think it's a big deal which of these formats is used, although obviously i'd prefer we were at least consistent within individual locality pages!


I don't really have any preference which of 1, 3 or 4 are used, but if other people prefer 1 I'm happy to back it.


Jolyon

24th Oct 2010 18:37 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I just finished phase 1 of the California files update with the completion of the Crestmore Quarries series of localities. There are still some occurrences which have as an only reference: "micromounts@yahoogroups.com." I cleaned this up to establish a link by using: "http://www.micromounts@yahoogroups.com." I get no connection whatever. Does anyone in the California community know if there is a currently active version of this link or a substitute link?? If you go to the "Crestmore Quarries" file and choose "detailed listing" you can see which species occurrences have only the "micromounts@yahoogroups.com" reference, which now appears to be invalid. Does anyone have the information of the source(s) who/which identified these species from Crestmore?? Many are the most recent "exotic" species for the locality. I also eliminated quite a few of the listed occurrences for the parent file "Crestmore Quarries" where there are one or more listings of the same species at subordinate locality(ies) with valid references. If anyone with knowledge of Crestmore has the time, could you please look at the Crestmore files and provide any further input, corrections, etc.?? I am certain that there are probably many additional associations to be entered, color data on local species occurrences, etc.


The next action is to resolve several alleged occurrences at San Diego pegmatite localities through coordination with Scott Ritchie. After that, the next phase starts with the tidy up of the remaining files imported from MRDS (provide in-the-clear references, pinpoint locations geographically, and attribute districts if required). This will be done by county, starting with San Diego and Imperial, then smaller counties, ending up with the monster counties such as San Bernardino.


Chet

25th Oct 2010 05:07 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

Chet,


Is this the link to the site you are looking for?


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/micromounts/


There is also a Yahoo group site in micro mineral photography.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microphoto/


Doug

25th Oct 2010 05:24 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

Chet,

The photography site looks dead. There are current messages posted but they have nothing to do with micro minerals. It has been a while since any photos of minerals have been added.


The other site is moderated and you must be approved by the moderator. I have a request in and will post here if I find it to be interesting.


Doug

25th Oct 2010 15:15 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Doug,


Thank you for your assistance!! I would hate to think that someone would use a restricted site as a reference in Mindat. This is the danger in allowing websites as references - they die, may be restricted, or otherwise present problems.

25th Oct 2010 16:29 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Here is part I:


Here goes! The following are the outstanding files and data for San Diego County pegmatite locales:


1. Mesa Grande District: This is a general file for the entire district. References do not specify a particular mine/pegmatite:


a. Apatite – not attributed, but probably referring to the Himalaya Mine material – lacking the color and comment: “Colored red-violet at times due to the presence of Nd” (photo on apatite page for Himalaya Mine is this color). Ref.: Wherry (1917).


2. Little Three Mine/pegmatite:


a. Stibiocolumbite is listed but without any comments regarding Bi content. Foord (1977) & Foord & Mrose (1978) document Bismuthian Stibiocolumbite.


b. Uranmicrolite is not listed – major amounts of Bi content stated (Foord 1981: p. 7).


c. “Axinite” is listed; however, Pemberton (1983), p. 508 documents: “Cooroded tabular crystals up to 2.5 x 0.6 cm in the pegmatite on the N end of the claim; pale brown, transparent to translucent).


3. Himalaya Mine:


a. Gahnite missing (leek-green grains ranging in diameter from less than 0.01 to slightly more than 0.1 inches) (Foord (1977: p. 471)).


b. Todorokite missing (minor constituent of pocket alteration material) (Foord (1977: p. 471)).


c. Heliodor missing (Kunz, George Frederick (1905a), Gems, jewelers’ materials, and ornamental stones of California: California Division Mines Bulletin 37: p. 49.)


d. Cassiterite – missing comments: “Euhedral crystals 1 inch (2.5 cm) or more in diameter; deep golden to reddish brown or black)


e. Manganocolumbite missing (pure end member to Mn(Ta:Nb = 1:1)O6) (Foord (1977): p. 468)


f. Antimonian Microlite missing: (Foord (1977): 468-469; Foord & Mrose (1978): 710)


g. Stannian Microlite missing: (same refereneces as antimonian microlite).


h. Beyerite missing: Yellow to greenish yellow, fine-grained, earthy powder (Foord (1977): 471)


i. Herderite missing: (Foord (1977): 473).


j. Apatite: comment missing: “crystals up to 7.5 x 5 x 5 cm in the dike system.”


k. Monazite: comment missing: “Euhedral tabular crystals up to 0.5 inch in size.”


l. Rock Crystal and Milky Quartz missing: (Pemberton (1983): 348).


m. Plagioclase missing: comment: foot wall and hanging wall graphic pegmatite; about An10) (V. Carnahan (1960): 24; Foord (1977): 466-467).


n. Thomsonite missing: (Foord (1977): 472).


o. Heulandite missing: comment: “common.” (Foord (1977): 98).


p. Kaolinite missing: comment: “sparse in the pocket zone” (Foord (1977) no page provided).


q. Zircon missing: (Foord (1977): 471).


r. Uraniferous Zircon missing: (Foord (1977): 471).


s. Thorogummite missing: (Foord (1977): 472).


t. Allanite-(Ce) missing, comment: “as inclusions in quartz crystals.” (existing entry is for “Allanite” only) (Carnahan (1960), 23).


u. Almandine missing: comment: “Relatively abundant; Alm73:Spes24:Pyr3 to Alm:49:Spes:50:Pyr1.” (Foord 91977): 467).


v. Dravite missing: (Foord (1977): 469-470).


4. White Queen Mine:


a. Apatite missing: comment: “Contains Rb & Sr” (Riley, G.H. (1970): 729).


5. Vista Chief Mine (Moosa Canyon deposit; Freeman deposit):


a. Missing references: Merrill, Frederick James Hamilton (1916), San Diego, Imperial Counties: California Mining Bureau. Report 14: 635-743; <…(abstract): Geol. Zentralbl., Band 27: 395 (1922)>; Schaller (1911b): 37; Deer et al (1962), vol. 1: 322; F.H. Weber (1963a): 114; E. Sanero & Gottardi (1968): 1408.


b. Missing Kunzite: (unverified report) (Kunz (1905): 62; Merrill (1916): 702).


c. Missing Ferroaxinite: comment: smoky-colored crystals up to nearly 5 cm in size); (Schaller (1911b); Deer et al (1962); Weber (1963a); Sanero & Gottardi (1968)).


6. Victor Mine:


a. Bismutite missing: comment/associations: “with bismite;” (Rogers, A.F. (1910b): 208).


7. Vanderberg Mine:


a. Phenakite missing: comment: “flat, colorless crystals on cleavelandite;” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 31, 38.


b. Topaz missing: comment/color: blue. (Jahns & Wright (1951): 31)


c. Stibiotantalite missing: comment: “X-ray ID by W.S. Wise;” (Pemberton (1983): 178).


d. Triplite missing: comment: “Occurs sparingly; rough crystals 0.25 to 5.0 inches diameter; also as tabular, fracture-filling masses.” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 40-41)


e. Vivianite missing: comment: “Occurs as blue-gray films on triplite crystals;” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 40-41).


f. Pucherite missing: comment: Occurs in a mix of gray to yellowish orange coatings on fractures.” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 38).


g. Cookeite missing: comment: “Occurs as aggregates of small plates and flakes;” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 40-41).


h. Bertrandite missing: comment: “Small, tabular crystals white to light gray;” (Jahns & Wright (1951): 38).


Chet

25th Oct 2010 17:57 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


I'll get on it. I may have some questions for you regarding the references, but we'll see how it goes*.


Thanks,


Scott


*Update:


Wherry, Edgar T. (1917), Neodymium as the cause of the red-violet color in certain minerals. U. S. National Museum. J. Wash. Acad. Sci. 7(6): 143-146.


"...and red-violet material from the San Diego Mine, Mesa Grande, Cal. yield that of neodymium."

25th Oct 2010 20:21 UTCAnonymous User

While I'm in the database cleaning things up and adding references and minerals, a few problems keep popping up.


Specifically, I'm noticing that Van King has gone through and altered text and deleted minerals, by changing minerals noted in early literature as amblygonite and orthoclase to montebrasite and microcline... etc. I'm all for correcting archaic information, but this is the wrong way to do it.


First, instead of completely removing minerals from a locality (deleting entry), they should instead be noted as erroneously reported (when this can be conclusively proven).


Second, it is inaccurate to change the locality history text to reflect minerals noted in early reports to modern names. For example, when Kunz in 1905 said orthoclase, he literally said orthoclase, not microcline.


The correct method to specify a mineral being referred to in the history text section of a particular locality page would be to add a footnote (using Mindat Markup Language) where that particular species is mentioned so that the reader understands that the mineral a particular writer was referring to is now known as .


I'll go ahead and incorporate these type of corrections when I see that changes have been made in the logs.


Scott

25th Oct 2010 20:25 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I agree on the latter issue.

26th Oct 2010 07:08 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

Chet,


I received access to the micro minerals group. I did not see anything there that would warrant using it as a reference for localities and minerals found there. It is mostly postings of ads and shows, and questions one micromounting. If you go back far enough you see some of the regulars from here were making posting at one time.


Doug

26th Oct 2010 14:02 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Doug,


Thanks again!! I really appreciate your assist here. I fear that the use of a website for those Crestmore alleged occurrences was a mistake in judgement, at least without further data identifying the original source of the data. I'll post one more request for assistance in resolving them or they will have to be deleted.


Chet

27th Oct 2010 01:40 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Does this reference describe the Vanderberg mine, Katerina mine, or the Vanderberg-Katerina pegmatite localities? Also, does it specify XRD, or XRF analysis?


7. Vanderberg Mine:


c. Stibiotantalite missing: comment: “X-ray ID by W.S. Wise;” (Pemberton (1983): 178).


Thanks,


Scott

27th Oct 2010 14:03 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


It reports it as the Vanderberg. Specific method of analysis is as I stated it in the message. Nothing more specific.


Chet

28th Oct 2010 00:27 UTCAnonymous User

Chet or David,


I was wondering if either of you guys could give me the long format reference data for these two references:


Merrill 14:699.

Rocks & Min.: 65:349.


Also, Chet I owe you an apology, I was totally wrong on the Pala topaz issue with Jahns. While going through the text, again, I discovered the specific locality attribution for the topaz to the "Vanderberg-Katernia pegmatites", tucked away on page 38: To err is only human, but I don't know how I missed this one. Anyways, the db has been updated to reflect the data.


Very small crystals of white to pale-blue topaz are associated with colorless crystals of phenakite, and both are attached to the exposed edges of large cleavelandite aggregates in the pocket pegmatite.


Reference: Jahns, R. H. and Wright, L. A. (1951), Gem and Lithium-bearing pegmatites of the Pala District, San Diego County, California. California Division of Mines special report 7A: 31, 38.


Anyhow, I'm still cleaning things up in Pala, a few legacy reference typographical errors from original entries way back by J. Fisher that were later propagated throughout the district.


After that, I'll get to work on the Little Three mine, Himalaya mine, Vista Chief mine, and Victor mine.


The Mesa Grande District reference for apatite was added to the San Diego mine, which it was actually attributed to within the source text. The Vanderberg mine and Vanderber-Katerina pegmatites, and Katerina mine references have been added, as well as the White Queen mine addition.


Also, while I have your attention, do you have the Tucker and Reed report handy? I have to borrow Larson's copy at the shop to verify the Big Buck prospect you added to the Warner Springs District. The Weber 1963 report gives a legal location, but not compass directions and distance that you added, which I suppose were based on that legal location.


Additionally, the Weber report mentions that it is south of Chihuahua Valley, but the legal location places it west of the valley, within Holcomb Village area in Sunshine Summit. There is no mention of the mineralogy or geology in the Weber report, so I was wondering where the information you added regarding a Lithium occurrence there came from.


I have a feeling, that the error traces back to the Tucker and Reed report in 1939. I know from previous investigations that there were a few legal location errors in that report that I will be dealing with in the future as I clean up the Warner Springs District. Some of these errors appeared to have originated with interpretation of the County claim records. I have a strong suspicion, being that it is located in section 36 and the name Molino is involved, that this is actually the Victor mine (Big Buck) in the Rincon District. I'll do more research into the subject.


Thanks,


Scott

28th Oct 2010 18:52 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I don't have anything more detailed on the Rocks & Min. reference. The Merrill reference is:


Merrill, Frederick James Hamilton (1916), San Diego, Imperial Counties: California Mining Bureau. Report 14: 635-743; <…(abstract): Geol. Zentralbl., Band 27: 395 (1922)>: .


I believe that I have the Tucker and Reed report; however, it is not available since I am moving to Arizona and much of the library, other than periodicals, is packed.


Hope this helps a little.


Chet

5th Nov 2010 21:58 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Yesterday I completed the updated mineral list for the Little Three mine and the Himalaya mine. The only problem I had was attempting to add 'Uraniferous Zircon', as there are no matching species or analogue currently listed in the database. For now I added 'zircon group', and put uraniferous zircon' in the comment field. If you have a better idea, or if I missed something obvious, please let me know.


I also noticed that the Himalaya mine was listed as the type locality for 'Rynersonite', but according to the studies published by Foord, the samples tested came from the San Diego mine, which is located along the same pegmatite system, but not within one of the three lode claims that make up the Himalaya mine property. I don't have the ability to change this setting in my current capacity, but I think the other managers should consider fixing this error. I should probably add Himalaya pegmatites to the alternate names for the San Diego mine as well, since this is likely why there was confusion as to the type locality attribution.


Next I'll get to work on the Vista Chief mine, and the Victor mine additions, as well as continuing to clean up other SoCal pegmatite localities as I come across them, and all that jazz.


Have a great weekend,


Scott

14th Nov 2010 17:52 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Thanks for the update. I'll add the variety "uraniferous zircon" and change the TL as required since I am now back home from Arizona. I'll probably start working on Mindat tomorrow.


I am now up to starting the "P's" for San Diego County. The remainder shouldn't take long. When I finish I'll let you know so that you can do peer review and let me know what I messed up. I have a few areas of particular concern right now and I might have more before I am done.


Thanks!


Chet

14th Nov 2010 18:46 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


Uraniferous Zircon is now in the database.


Chet

14th Nov 2010 18:50 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


The rynearsonite TL issue is fixed. Thanks!


Chet

16th Nov 2010 14:35 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Scott,


I am working on the "P's" for San Diego County now. We need to clarify the issue of "Pala Mountain." Right now we have two files which cover a "Pala Mountain." The first is simply "Pala Mountain" and the second is "Tourmaline Queen Mountain (Pala Mountain; Queen Mountain)." I noted your explanation that the latter was erroneously called "Pala Mountain" in older literature. If "Pala Mountain" is a separate summit, then perhaps we should have a corresponding clarifying statement under this file. Something to the effect "This is the true Pala Mountain and is not to be confused with Tourmaline Queen Mountain, which was erroneously referred to as "Pala Mountain" in older literature." This would, of course, be at your discretion based on your knowledge of the situation.


Also, we should include "Pala" in the locality string of the files in this district (before "Pala District") since it is the closest populated place and we already have a (orphan) file for it. Thanks!


Also, should we put "Pala District" in the locality strings for the granite quarries now listed simply under "Pala?" If they are within the boundaries of the district, they should be indicated as such.


Under the "Little Joe adit" file, we need to clarify "SDMC" in the reference. Could you please spell it out? Thanks.


Chet

16th Nov 2010 15:23 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Can I just say thanks to both of you. I can only dream of a day when we get the same level of attention to detail across the rest of the world on mindat.


Jolyon

16th Nov 2010 18:05 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Your very welcome Jolyon!

16th Nov 2010 18:31 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Sounds good, I'll get working on these changes tonight. I know the nearest town has to be added for several other districts in southern California as well, such as Mesa Grande, Warner Springs, Aguanga, Jacumba, Ramona, etc. I'll clean up the references to match the new standard long format for these as applicable when I add the nearest town. I've been putting it off till we had more complete sublocality listings, so I'm glad the time has come to get it done.


It's great to be working with you... someone who actually reads my work here and offers meaningful assistance.


Jolyon,


It's really a pleasure to be a contributor on mindat. You are most welcome!


Scott

16th Nov 2010 23:24 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

S cott,


Please just attend to the Pala Mountain and Pala District issues right now. Until I finish tidying up the remaining files (I'm on "R's" now) any effort in other districts will be incomplete and will require double work. There is a list of areas of concern to me (due to my unfamiliarity with the details of the county) which I will post as soon as I finish. These will then allow you to polish up the county since I will be "finished" with it then. Thanks!


Chet

17th Nov 2010 11:57 UTCAnonymous User

Chet,


Pala issues have been addressed. I have a few more localities to add for Pala, but I'll work on this later. Tomorrow night I'll attend to the Vista Chief and Victor mines.


Scott

17th Nov 2010 13:30 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks!

22nd Nov 2010 17:25 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Hooray!! San Diego County is finished (from my perspective). On to Imperial County.


Scott,


It's all yours! I have some concerns about how I attributed localities between the Julian and Banner districts. The definition of the Banner District is rather narrow. Please have a look at it and change as required. Also, I don't know if all of the localities within the city limits of San Diego are stated as such. The city's 2 sets of boundaries are very irregular and confusing. Finally, the Jacumba District needs a look. Thanks!!


Chet

22nd Nov 2010 23:01 UTCAnonymous User

Hi Chet,


Indeed, the Spanish Ranchos makes boundaries in San Diego city a bit confusing. I'll take a look at it.


The Banner District, as I understand the area, is separated from the Julian District along it's western boundary by the ridgeline of Chariot Mountain, which separates Rodriguez Canyon from Chariot Canyon. The southern boundary of the Julian District is at the Cuyamaca Rancho. The area from the Oriflamme Mountain top and west would also be in the Cuyamaca District. It's somewhat nebulous as to the Blair Valley area along the eastern side of Granite Mountain; whether it's traditionally part of the Vallecito District or not.


I'll take a look again at the Jacumba District as well.


I'm sure it will take years of organizing and tidying to really define certain aspects of what is and isn't or shouldn't be part of many of these district boundary areas, but it's really starting to take shape. So... thanks for being such a trooper.


Anyways, you've done a great job and made some really good judgment calls and separating those difficult unorganized district boundaries by ore and deposit type to get things in order. It seems in all these areas, we have gemstones adjacent to tungsten adjacent to gold. The absolute division between the three primary ore and deposit types seems to be by gold, yet tungsten localities will share gold districts and gem districts evenly. Depending on a particular historic author's geographic area or mineral of interest, you have numerous overlapping boundaries. Fun stuff to decipher.


Scott

23rd Nov 2010 02:37 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks Scott! The Vallecito District really didn't come up on my radar - I don't recall mention of it in the literature. That means that there is probably a good bit of reassignment to do. Anyway, the thing is in better shape than it was before. Good luck on further refinement! I'm already working on Imperial County.

3rd Dec 2010 14:47 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Imperial County is finished (from my perspective). There may be a need to do some reassignments between the Jacumba District and Ocotillo in general. On to Orange County!

7th Dec 2010 17:56 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Orange County is finished (from my perspective). Three counties down and only 55 more to go!! On to Los Angeles County.

8th Dec 2010 14:36 UTCRock Currier Expert

Chet,

Don't you dare go and die on us.!

8th Dec 2010 15:17 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I don't plan on it Rock!

13th Jan 2011 15:08 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Los Angeles County is now in the bag. Probably the last before Tucson.

14th Jan 2011 05:07 UTCJim Bean 🌟

One Los Angeles County issue I stumbled upon this evening is that a search for Santa Monica Mountains produces no hits while Santa Monica Mts gives the expected results. This probably belongs in Mistakes and Errors but I'm just tossing it out here due to laziness.

14th Jan 2011 14:31 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

The Mt is the convention here. see http://manual.mindat.org/index.php/Naming_Conventions

14th Jan 2011 15:11 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

The use of "Mts" for "Mountains" in the locality string is required by Mindat policy. "Mountains" may be used in the comments, titles of references, or in the locality string if "Mountains" is part of a mine name or other feature (e.g.: Spirit Mountains Mine, or San Gabriel Mountains Ski Heaven).

15th Jan 2011 05:41 UTCJim Bean 🌟

Thanks, I'm not at all opposed to shortening things. Looks like the manual has expanded quite a bit since I last looked at it, time to do some reading.

25th Jan 2011 15:46 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Ventura County is finished.

31st Jan 2011 15:42 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Santa Barbara County is finished.

24th Feb 2011 01:40 UTCBob Griffis Expert

I am working on two localities which I think are confused with each other.


Today, I updated the description of the Chance Mine, Mono Co., California locality ( http://www.mindat.org/loc-41045.html ). I added site photos and a mineral photo, and added lat/long and township/range. I am still researching for references and developing a more complete mineral list.


As part of this effort, I ran across the mincat locality reference for Long Chance & Vanelmart Mine (Chance Mine; Long Chance Mine; Chance No. 4 claim), Chidago District, Benton Range Rare II Area, Mono Co., California ( http://www.mindat.org/loc-83054.html ). It has a mineral list that I believe is the same as what I have seen from the Chance Mine. The mineral photo attached to this locality definitely belongs to the Chance Mine.


It is suspicious that the township/range in the Long Chance Mine mindat listing ( sec. 2, T4S, R32E, MDM ) is so similar to that of the Chance Mine ( sec. 2, T4S, R31E, MDM ), which I know because I relocated the claims in 1997. I reviewed the reference Copper in California, California Division of Mines Bulletin 144 (1948): p. 274, and it lists the Long Chance & Vanelmart Mine at sec. 35, T3S, R31E?, MDM and a claim owner of H.A. Van Loon, Bishop, CA (1935).


The reference in Pemberton, H. Earl (1983), Minerals of California on p. 90 is for Chalcopyrite at the Long Chance Mine (Sec. 33, T3S, R31E, MDM), and on p. 338 for Stolzite "in altered galena from the Chance No. 4 claim in the Chidago District (sec. 2, T4S, R32E, MDM). These are clearly two different mines. The Chance Mine consisted of several workings on several different contiguous claims and a mill site. The mineralogy is consistent with the altered galena reference. I believe that Pemberton contains a typo listing the range as R32E rather than the correct R31E.


I still need to confirm the data in the other references to the Long Chance & Vanelmart Mine listed in Mindat, but don't have them in my library. These are:


Rinehart, Charles Dean & Donald C. Ross (1956), Economic geology of the Casa Diablo Mountain quadrangle, California: California Division Mines Special Report: 48, 17 pp.: 8-9.


California Journal of Mines and Geology (1957): 53: 562.


If anyone has reliable specimens from the Long Chance & Vanelmart Mine, it would be nice to confirm its specimen production. Also, any assistance with the missing references for this locality should clarify what happened to these two localities.

20th Apr 2011 21:49 UTCDavid Zakharov

Hello there!

I'm russian student-mineralogist and going to USA California this summer.

I'll live in Walnut Creek. Please help me with nearest locality for collecting. May be some geological info.

Thanks for all.

David.

20th Apr 2011 23:49 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

David,


Walnut Creek is a nice place to visit. You can educate yourself on Mindat by searching on "Contra Costa Co., California." This will give you all locations in the county, including those nearest to Walnut Creek. If you go into the individual files, you will have all of the information we have on each location and its geology. You will also have all of the references for those localities (listed under the county file). Since you will be close to San Francisco, you can stop in at the Division of Mines and Geology in the famous Ferry Building. They have a large collection of California minerals and an extensive library with the references. Please remember that California is a project in progress and more information will be added in the future.


Chet Lemanski

25th Apr 2011 17:05 UTCDavid Zakharov

Chet,


Thanks you a lot. You give me good information about what locality i should see on mindat =) I sure i have to go to Ferry Building in San Francisco

soon...


Thanks,

David.

25th Apr 2011 20:14 UTCDavid Zakharov

Chet,

excuse me but i missunderstand about individual files and referens. I know that i can see list of referens in almost each locality.


Thank you,

David.

26th Apr 2011 00:51 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

David,


There is also a list of references under the county level file (Contra Costa County). Many are duplicated in individual files. The county file list makes it easier to see all of the county-wide references in one list.

3rd Jul 2011 23:29 UTCPeter Haas

Chet,


Please check the grid reference of the following locality:

http://www.mindat.org/loc-74747.html

4th Jul 2011 00:02 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Peter,


I just started working on Del Norte County yesterday. This file will be scrutinized in turn.


Chet

3rd Nov 2011 20:44 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I am finally done with Siskiyou County and its 1,900+ localities, more than any other county, many states, and even many countries. It took slightly over 3 months to get it done. Next will be an easy one - Modoc County - I need a break.


Chet

4th Nov 2011 01:10 UTCJohn Magnasco Manager

Wow Chet, awesome work on the California localities! I know many of them well.


Once on this thread, I noticed earlier references to the mineral collection at the Ferry Building in San Francisco. Unfortunately, that was moved and the display collection was drastically downsized in 1983 when the powers that be decided to move it to a new California State Mining and Mineral Museum housed in Mariposa and part of the State Parks. Well, it is now scheduled to close in 2012 as part of the California State Park closures aimed at reducing costs. These moves, together with the demise of the California Academy of Sciences display, have literally pulled thouisands of displays specimens away from view, opened up the collections for pilfering and back-door deals (none sanctioned, of course), and relegated great specimens to the dark abyss of rolling lock-boxes and storage units. Bummer!


Just wanted to set the record straight on the Ferry Building, but got on a bit of a soap box there, didn't I?

4th Nov 2011 13:09 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

John,


Thanks! I obviously wasn't aware of the Ferry Building issue. Too bad! It is a continuing trend in many places. Arizona just did the equivalent with their state display and the Philadelphia Academy de-accessed a chunk of the Vaux collection a few years back.


Chet

4th Nov 2011 18:39 UTCRock Currier Expert

Chet, I think you have been violating our no more than 60 hours a week rule.

9th Nov 2011 23:21 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Modoc County is finished! That was easy. It only took a week. I'll decide which county is next after the 19th.

4th Dec 2011 16:59 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Lassen County done - on to the next!

14th Dec 2011 06:10 UTCDavid Mastry

Hi, I just inadvertently deleted the message i spent most of an hour writing...and as I'm now so steamed as to be ready to scream I'm just going to be brief and anyone that is interested in any more info can arrange to contact me by phone or something whereas I won't have to write or type

My folks have owned a parcel <2.6 acres> of land on Grannite Ave. in Orangevale Calif. since 1976. The parcel is divided into two sections by a natural creek, Linda Creek. Linda Creek used to dry up in the summers until the late 1980s. This property is literally right at the base of the Sierra Mountain foothills as the hill that rises right behind my folks property is the last such rise from there to the western edge of the Sacramento Valley. Along Cherry Ave that intersects with Granite some 90 or 100 feet from my folks place is a section of fenced pasture to which said hill abuts and that picec of land along Cherry Ave goes back and then behind the private homes and rural property , of which all are no further back than a hundred feet or so along Cherry Ave is a State owned preserve known as 'Indian Stone Corral. It is a huge maze of swollen finger like or oblong and stretched fat egg shaped granite boulders that boil up out of the ground at the base of the hill that abut one another so tightly as to be impenetrable and they form a maze around sections of flat grassy areas and some dead end ...hence the term 'Stone Corral' as they were probably used as such at one time...and it apparently was a favorite location for the local tribes people in the past as you could easily get lost in this maze and or hide as to which you could only be found by knowing the ins and outs or by happenstance. The entire area between Cherry Ave, in Sacramento Co. on the south to Douglas Blvd. on the north in Placer Co. bordered by hazel Ave/Sierra College Blvd on the west and Barton Dam Rd. on the east was still wild and undeveloped until recently. In the late 80s, Linda Creek which cuts across my folks property quit drying up in the summer months and as the folks had had trouble with the creek flooding very damagingly and surprisingly so as to the extent of amt. of water 4 times between 1976 and the early 1990s my folks and the neighbor on Cerry Ave that borders Linda Creek complained to the County gov't and got no answer or explanation as to why it was now running year round which caused much concern as any future flooding could expect to be even more damaging . My father, our neighbor on Cherry Ave, and I, we all put on waders and decided to follow Linda Creek upstream, to hopefully find the fount as no maps were ever accurate made of the immediate area it turned out. known as Barton Dam...apparently it is a spring that comes out of the ground and then runs south and west in a general very snakelike manner eventually finding its way into the Sacramento River somehow ...to the west.

We probably got about an eighth of a mile, give or take, up stream from the granite corral area and it started to get narrower, deeper and too much overgrown to continue and I seem to recall that it was skirting along the base of the hill i mention at the beginning of this post and at that point I noticed on the banks of the creek on the north side was a mine shaft that was cut into a small rise of the skirt of the hill and which appeared to go in and down at an angle into the earth or side of the hill which had granite columns and a granite lintel framing the entrance.

I contacted a gov't agency a month or two later about this as a 'Curiosity and something of much possible historical significance..and as it was in an area to which one had to be most determined to get to and is, for a fact, a rather slow, arduous and frustrating hike I doubted it would be accidentally discovered by kids... and the lack of development in the area pretty much assured that...till now. The agency requested that I get a topo map of the immediate area and pinpoint its location and My efforts at obtaining any such map was met with total frustration and when i contacted them again and requested someone to come out and see for themselves I was met with a rather sarcastic reply that due to some voter initiative or something like that they didn't have the manpower or even that much time as I had already had them commit by talking to me on the telephone.... All the area north of Cherry Ave and also on the Placer Co. side of the county line has been developed and the buffer area between placer Co. and Sacramento Co. that the High Power transmission lines run through and which we were under the impression was also a 'green area' which wouldn't be developed has apparently been okay-ed for some sort of development and thus I am now concerned that ..as Murphys' Law will not be denied...and I'm sure most of you will agree...some kid or bunch of foolish kids {or even adults} will stumble upon this in little due time and ....!?!?!?..

As I did do some panning on my folks property in the alluvial like deposits left by the flooding from that winter around the large oak that grows partially in the creek bed in the 90s and found to my delight a small but large enough to be identifiable piece of flat ribbon barbed wire I know the area to have been inhabited by settlers from at least the 1880s. and has remained relatively unchanged in the area till the present this mine could be from around then. Or possibly older as it is about 2 miles or less west of the American River and slightly Northwest of the old town site of 'Nigger Bar' or present day historical Folsom...and I understand Oak Ave. to the south of the folks a half mile was an old stage coach route with a stop at a site just a few yards west of the intersection at present day Oak Ave. and Hazel Ave.

There is also a local legend that one or more of the notorious bandits of the 1800s in Calif used Indian Stone Corral as a hideout...and that possibly one of the still missing hauls from a stage robbery that is alleged to have been rather large is possibly buried in the area.

..all in all ..Who knows...

Anyone interested in checking this out for themselves or wishes more info on this can contact me at. piercethevale@yahoo.com ...please title the subject of your e-mail as 'Indian Stone Corral' as I get a tremendous amount of spam at this e-mail address which I use for all correspondence other than personal...anything not identifiable as other than spam from the subject title is deleted as I do not open unsolicited and or questionable e-mail.

Thanks,

14th Dec 2011 13:35 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Dave,


The mine shaft is one issue, but perhaps the bigger one is the intermitttent stream, now of continuous flow! You mention the "spring" near a dam. I would certainly fear that the dam may be compromised either due to the mine workings in the area or simply an inadequate foundation which is now being undermined by the water pressure. That is what the authorities should be looking into. Remember the Johnstown, Pennsylvania, flood. That dam also started leaking around the bottom before giving way.

9th Feb 2012 03:08 UTCDavid Zakharov

Does anybody know where may I explore and collect ophiolites somewhere in Contra Costa Co. or Alameda Co.?

Thank you,

David.

15th Feb 2012 12:50 UTCAmir C. Akhavan Expert

As far as I can tell, there are no ophiolites in Alameda County.

On a map of ophiolite outcrops I've seen in the book "California Geology" by Deborah Harden, there was an ophiolite patch at Mt Diablo, that would be Contra Costa Co. It is also a state park, so collecting might be prohibited. I remember a vvery small exhibition of local mineral and rock specimen in the Mt Diablo visitor center (many years ago), might be worth to check this out.


There are small ophiolite outcrops in the southern part of the Bay Area, and to the northwest in Marin County, even in San Francisco (but you wouldn't want to start digging on Union Square).


I've never checked these outcrops out myself, though.

17th Mar 2012 07:00 UTCDavid Zakharov

Hi everyone!

I have been in Mt Diablo State Park.

So I found only one place with th blue schists.
http://s003.radikal.ru/i202/1202/3e/f11982b7a3a1.jpg

David.

16th Apr 2012 07:26 UTCRon Layton

I just added a reference to the Mohawk mine, San Bernardino county locality. In 1990 the San Bernardino County Museum published a 32 page booklet titled "The Mineralogy of the Mohawk Mine, San Bernardino County, California" by William S. Wise. It is Quarterly Vol 37 #1. It is still available from the museum bookstore but I have no idea how much longer. Its a very good write up on this locality and I ordered mine a few weeks ago. If this is the wrong place to post this please move or remove it.

16th Apr 2012 13:39 UTCRock Currier Expert

Bill Wise was/is a careful and accurate researcher and is we should be glad to have any work done by him referenced in our database.

18th Jun 2012 22:46 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Shasta County is now "finished." I have already started Trinity County. The California project marches on!

20th Jul 2012 20:05 UTCRon Layton

Saddleback Basalt in the US Borax mine, Boron, Kern County, California. I just found these on the web. These publications contain a good write up on the minerals of the Kramer District Borate deposit.

Kramer District Borate deposit minerals part 1

Kramer District Borate deposit minerals part 2

20th Jul 2012 22:53 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Ron,


Thank you very much. I printed them out and they will be added to my California library. They will be of significant help when I get to Kern County. Right now I am working up in Sasquach land - Trinity County.


Chet Lemanski

28th Sep 2012 23:46 UTCDavid Zakharov

Short report about visiting Mt Diablo State Park.


http://opticalmineralogy.blogspot.com/2012/01/mount-diablo-ophiolites-exploration.html


Thank you,

David

22nd Nov 2012 14:20 UTCAnonymous User

Hello all,

what is Kramer District's industrial use of Borax?

23rd Nov 2012 18:48 UTCRock Currier Expert

Wolff,

I don't understand your question. The Kramer district in California does not have much industrial use for Borax. The big open pit mine at Boron is mined primarily for borax, which occurs naturally in the deposit. It is the preferred ore because they can refine it easily by simply dissolving it in hot water and recrystallizing it. The refinery adjacent to the mine produces a number of different borate products, mostly sodium borates using the recrystallized borax as a feed stock which they then sell and distribute to many customers.

17th Jan 2013 15:59 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

To see what are the primary uses of boron containing minerals the USGS Mineral Yearbooks are good resources.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/boron/index.html#myb

25th May 2013 00:06 UTCKris Rowe, Rockhound Field Trip Fanatics!

Thanks for the great work!


I'm working on plans for field trips throughout Central California, and plan on asking about collecting status for numerous sites.


Lets start with something fairly obscure; the Big Creek-Rush Creek District of Fresno County, CA.


mindat lists numerous claims in that area, and several of the mineral collectors on my website (Rockhound Field Trip Fanatics!) have expressed keen interest in visiting these prolific type localities.


Any assistance that y'all might provide in ascertaining collecting status of the claims within that area would be most appreciated.


Best regards,


Kris Rowe

Admin, RFTF!

Hand-2-Mouth Mining

25th May 2013 13:09 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Personally, I have never been to these sites although I would love to collect there! Perhaps someone else will chime in with good information.

22nd Jun 2013 19:46 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Onward!! Mariposa County is complete. I am moving on to Tuolumne County now - please refrain from making any changes to this county until after I am finished with it (est. 2 months).

23rd Jun 2013 03:08 UTCRock Currier Expert

Jesus Chet,

They should at least give you a free hat or a few picks of the POD or something. I hate thinking of who mindat might replace you with if you get run over by a truck in Tuolumne County.

27th Jul 2013 07:40 UTCChristopher O'Neill

Hello,


I have California locality question: I have a specimen of massive tan scheelite mixed with white quartz. The label states that it is from the Black Eagle Mine, Glamis, California.


I found the following info on http://www.trailbehind.com/node/1131733/ which shows the town of Glamis on highway 78 and the Black Eagle Mine located about 10 miles north of Glamis.


There is also a Mary Lode Mine which is listed in the MINDAT database (Mary Lode Mine, Squaw Peak, Chocolate Mountains District, Chocolate Mts, Imperial Co., California, USA). The Mary Lode Mine seems to be located about 4 to 5 miles south of the Black Eagle Mine.


Do you have any additional info for the Black Eagle?


Many thanks,

Chris

27th Jul 2013 14:48 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Christopher,


The Black Eagle is now updated with all available information. Unfortunately, it is on a naval gunnery range - not even I would go there!!


Chet Lemanski

27th Jul 2013 23:11 UTCChristopher O'Neill

Chet,


Thanks for the info on the Black Eagle Mine and I posted the specimen.

I agree, probably not a lot of collecting going on around there anymore....


Regards,

Chris

1st Sep 2013 21:44 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Today I tidied up the files for these localities. Added refrerences as required (some now published, not "in press") to locality files and species occurrence files. Also added full references to the master species files in the database. Tony! Slow down please.......!!!!


Chet

4th Nov 2013 01:24 UTCRandall Humiston

Good Day. Just joined and find the message threads very interesting.


As a relatively new rockhound, I find that one of the most difficult parts for me is knowing what's about in the areas I am in.


I spend a fair amount of time around the Bridgeport, CA area and have not had much luck finding out what might be some interesting rocks and minerals in the area. Just looking for specimen collection for personal display and not anything large-scale. Mainly as part of an educational adventure for myself and my nephew.


Can I get some hints about possible finds and locations in the area from anyone that might know? If not, does anyone know of some reliable resource material that might contain this information?


Thanks for any help you provide.


Randy

4th Nov 2013 12:59 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Randall,


I presume you are referring to the Bridgeport in Mariposa County. Simply type in Bridgeport to the locality search block on the Mindat home page and search for it. You will find a list of old mines nearby. This county was already updated and the information reflected in the files is the best we have right now.


Chet Lemanski

25th Nov 2013 17:54 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Unfortunately, recent changes in online maps by Google has caused Mindat to lose the USGS topo maps feature. There is no suitable alternative at present. Without these maps, the California project has to stop for now. This hiatus will be temporary provided that the topo maps access can be reestablished. If not, the project may continue; however, the data will be noticeably less comprehensive for the remaining files.

25th Nov 2013 21:56 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

The USGS does make 7.5' maps available for download as a pdf file (~20M/file). The ones that you probably would want are the historical series. They often are available from different eras.


http://nationalmap.gov/historical/

27th Nov 2013 23:26 UTCWilliam W. Besse Expert

Chet,


I agree with David. Download the topos from the USGS Map Store. And, yes, the older are commonly better for our purpose. They have not been sanitized.


The rest of this you probably know but just in case and for other Mindaters:


Do you know about TerraGo Toolbar? It is a very good, free tool for finding coordinates and distances in USGS topo PDFs.


You know about USGS MRDS but I am finding the USGS GNIS better in many cases for locating localities.


Bill

7th Dec 2013 00:26 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Bill,


I use the USGS GNIS database daily. There are some drawbacks to it as a stand alone source. It provides coordinates for any feature named on a USGS topo map. If it is not named on the topo, it is not in the GNIS database. Many mines are depicted on the topo as symbols only. The MRDS coordinates must then be used and the topo is a confirmatory tool, especially when the coordinates place it directly, or nearly so, on a symbol on the topo map.

7th Dec 2013 03:54 UTCWilliam W. Besse Expert

Oh, I use both. In my last project though, on Nevada, I found more in GNIS and not in MRDS than I found in MRDS and not in GNIS. Interestingly enough when they are in both they do not always agree, even though USGS says that the GNIS is their reference for publication.


When you have to use a topo to retrieve coordinates is when TerraGo comes in real handy.


Bill

7th Dec 2013 16:26 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

A lot of the MRDS records came from the Mil/Mas database of the Bureau of Mines. I don't believe that they actually recorded locations in lat/long, but rather used a Section/Township/Range format and at some point this was converted to lat/long.

7th Dec 2013 16:36 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I believe that you are correct Dave. I often find that when there are 2 or more MRDS files pertaining to a locality that the higher numbered file is merged from the ML/MAS database and that the coordinates are less accurate, but not always. Sometimes it is the opposite, and sometimes neither make any sense while disagreeing between them!

24th Jan 2014 12:51 UTCTony Charlton

to who ever?

I have entered a new mineral location ,

Unnamed occurrence, Big X Mountain, Claussenaus, El Dorado Co., California, USA


As it is My first successful attempt to enter a new location and I have a couple of questions ---

1) The program will not take all of the minerals for the site, How do this get fixed?

2) Is the text that I attached to the site adequate ?

3) I gave the site as "slab creek drainage" because this geographic feature covers a large portion of the formation and has a few different locations for crystals. Claussenaus was a historic logging camp with no visible evidence of its having been there (the closest "place of habitation" would be Quintett)--- guess that is not so much a question as an observation.


Wish I had found this string before I entered My location!!!

Thanks in advance.

24th Jan 2014 17:09 UTCZachary MacPhearson

That's a great location Tony.

I know it well, in fact spent a trip last summer digging alongside the road about a quarter mile up the road just before the bridge at Slab Creek.

The camp at Slab Creek was trashed by some huge group.

The creek has turned out many interesting minerals over the years for me.

There are a few pockets of Citrine in the area as well.

It would be great to get back there with an expert, to explain what I'm looking at.


Cheers.

Zach M.

24th Jan 2014 17:46 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


Thank you for your interest in Mindat. I am the manager who reviewed your new entry. The entry is fine and the narrative is great. I changed the locality string to enter elements with specific sets of coordinates as per the USGS topo map sets. Claussenius is not only on the topo map as a prominent entry, but also appears in the USGS GNIS database as a populated place. Even if it isn't populated, it has a specific set of coordinates with which it can be related to the mineral occurrence. Based on your posting above, I went back and researched Quintette and made mention of it in the locality narrative, including the distance and direction relative to the locality. I can not find any mineral species entries pending review and approval. If there are still species/varieties to be added, please let me know.


I am working the California project but I have not yet addressed El Dorado County.


Chet Lemanski

24th Jan 2014 20:05 UTCeugene reynolds

hi yaaa chester..please contact so. calif.friends of mineralogy bob reynolds, email rreynolds220@verizon.net & no.calif.min.assoc. ,mike

kokinos email,zeileitz@directcom.net.& john clinkenbinder st.. of calif mineing divison,they are all working on updating calif. mineral locations,with hope of publishing a up dated verison of he pemberton book.... gene reynold.,,so.cal.friends of mineralogy

24th Jan 2014 21:54 UTCTony Charlton

Hey Chet

Thank You for the reply

The minerals that I have found there that did not get up loaded are Chlorite var. Clinachlore and Anatase.

The Pyrite that I have found there is inside Quartz or altered to Limonite, just thought I should mention that.

You have done a wonderful job on California!! Thank You for organizing this great knowledge base.

25th Jan 2014 16:54 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


I added in the species, including limonite. I am virtually finished working on Tulare County and will shortly (probably tomorrow) do the preliminary setup work to start on the Inyo County files. After that I will probably finish up the Mother Lode counties before going to the monster counties in the San Bernardino Meridian. I still have to go back and refine the counties I worked on before the MRDS database allowed searches for individual deposits by name. They need to have the MRDS files identified and entered into the locality files plus any additional data in the MRDS files need top be extracted and entered as well.


Chet

26th Jan 2014 13:32 UTCTony Charlton

Chet, :)-D

Thanks for taking the time to fix My errors. Sounds like You have a very large project on Your hands, and have had for some time. How close are You to completion? Can You see any light at the end of the tunnel yet?

Respectfully Yours,

26th Jan 2014 15:48 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


I have about 13,500 files to go out of the 25,000 plus that I started with. It is a big job. There are a few other folks contributing but the majority of the effort is one person. It is usually very relaxing to work on, occasionally a pain. The system that I have devised makes it go as fast as practical but there are so many errors in the literature and lack of data on many sites that slow it down. My bibliography is now about 348 pages at 12 point font. Again, I/we appreciate your contributions. Every little bit helps make this the most comprehensive and intelligible list for California. There is still a lot of other work to do. Mindat is also a mining history site (industrial archeology). There are a wealth of data yet to be researched in the California governmental offices (state, county tax records, local libraries and historical societies) regarding the mines and mining history. Hopefully we will have a team of devoted folks to carry this on into the future. There are a few other states with one or more contributors devoted to making comprehensive lists but California is the top dog for number of localities and diversity of deposits that I couldn't let sit idle.


Chet

26th Jan 2014 18:24 UTCRock Currier Expert

Chet,

Remember our rule. No more than 60 hours a week on Mindat!

28th Jan 2014 18:23 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Finally! Tulare County is complete after several delays while in progress. On to Inyo County. The basics were set up for the county this morning and the files will probably begin tomorrow. This will be a slow county not only due to the large number of records (over 1,700), but also due to the shape of the records as they exist now (several sets of records for the same district/mountain range/RARE II area, etc.).


Chet Lemanski

1st Feb 2014 21:21 UTCTony Charlton

heylo Chet:)-D

I have been looking at sites here on mindat and noticed that most list smokey and rutilated as varieties of Quartz on the site's mineral list.

I wonder if this should be done for the Big X mountain site? Just a thought.

I also want to thank You again for all the help with that.(tu) :-)

2nd Feb 2014 03:26 UTCJake Harper Expert

Howdy Tony,

Added the requested quartz varieties for Big X mountain and will do same for Unnamed occurrence.

Really great to see your quartz specimens (which I covet) on mindat!

7th Feb 2014 04:04 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

07733470016016453851001.jpg
I picked up material from the giveaways at the Pacific Micro-mount Symposium in Redlands, CA this past weekend, attributed to the Santa Rosa Mine, Inyo, County, California. Mindat has two localities called Santa Rosa in Inyo County. One is in the Darwin District, a few miles north of the town of Darwin. See:


http://www.mindat.org/loc-218545.html


The other is in the Lee District with coordinates of 36°25'4"N, 117°43'16"W. See:


http://www.mindat.org/loc-27941.html


People at the Symposium who are knowledgeable about Inyo County say that there is only one Santa Rosa Mine in the county. So, I used Google Earth to locate Darwin, CA on an image, then added the coordinates for the other site. See:




The second site is about 12.6 miles NW of Darwin. Is there another way to confirm that these localities should be conflated into one? It looks that way to me.


Thanks!

7th Feb 2014 07:06 UTCMarek Chorazewicz

Hi Steve,


It was a pleasure to meet you in person at the micro-mount conference. It was my first, but what a great event. I also got some free samples from that great material from Paul Adams.


As for the mine entries -- the second reference is correct (except for placing it in Lee district). The first is most likely based on some vague description in some general document. If you go to the Map pages and look at the ACME Topo map you'll see the mine location almost dead on. I've visited those mine tailings several years ago as well. The first entry actually gives you the correct location in the description as sections 26 & 35, T17S, R39E, which matches the second entry very closely.


I had a copy of the MacKevett Santa Rosa Mine CDMS report somewhere, but cannot find it at this moment. If I remember correctly the Santa Rosa Mine was treated as a separate deposit in Inyo Mountains, not belonging to either Darwin or Lee districts, hence the district association should be corrected. As for the list of minerals they differ slightly, so might need some merging and adding whatever Paul Adams found there as well.


The reference is:

MacKevett E M Jr, 1953, Geology of the Santa Rosa lead mine, Inyo County, California: California Division of Mines Special Report 34


And by the way Chester is doing a phenomenal job of figuring out the California locations despite sometimes contradicting statements in the bibliography.


Best Regards,

MarekC

7th Feb 2014 15:24 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Steve & Marek,


I just started Inyo County a little over a week ago. I will get to this(these) mine(s) in due course. Thanks for the research!!


Chet

7th Feb 2014 21:30 UTCMarek Chorazewicz

Chet,


Here is another paper that describes Santa Rosa as well as Lee District mines (missing from Mindat today I think) and Darwin of course.


In case you didn't see it before: Hall, Wayne Everett & Edward M. MacKevett (1963), Geology and ore deposits of the Darwin quadrangle, Inyo County, California: USGS PP 368: 62, 76;

Here: USGS Report PDF


Best Regards,

MarekC

7th Feb 2014 22:55 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks Marek!


I took as quick look at the Santa Rosa files. They are apparently the same mine & will be fixed soon.

7th Feb 2014 23:26 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

Thanks!

15th Feb 2014 00:01 UTCTony Charlton

Dear Chester'

I was wondering if You had done Placer county yet?

15th Feb 2014 16:49 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


No. After I finish Inyo County I will go back North and do the remaining Mother Lode counties. So far I have only done Mariposa and Tuolumne.

23rd Feb 2014 22:28 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I am now working on Inyo County. So far I am finding a mess!! It seems that half the county is in the Black Mountains! Many files will be changing and are not yet in final form. Please do not make any changes to any files in this county until I have completed it. Thanks as always!


Chet

10th Apr 2014 19:19 UTCTony Charlton

Dear Chet,

The following is a history of the Stifle Claim/Traverse Creek Area El Dorado co,

Thought it may improve the site page.



History of Stifle Claim



The Stifle Memorial Claim

Situated on Traverse creek, 1.3 miles from Georgetown Road (Highway 193) is the Stifle Memorial Claim, which is now part of the Traverse Creek Special Interest Area. At one time, it was owned by the El Dorado County Mineral and Gem Society but was relinquished to the U.S. Forest Service in 1995. It is maintained for the enjoyment and collecting interests of all rockhounds and students of the county's geology.

The Stifle claims were deeded to the Society as a memorial to William Louis Stifle by Byrl A. (Jack) Stifle, a second cousin. The claims are essentially a serpentine deposit, but contain many other mineral formations such as chrome, clinochlore, grossular, diopside, idocrase, psilomelane, and tremolite.


William Stifle was not the simple prospector ordinarily association with hardrock claims. He was born in 1862 and raised in Crawford County, Illinois. Rumor has it that Stifle's earliest ancestor in the United States was a Hessian soldier who came over as a mercenary at the behest of George the Third of England, and who evidently thought more of the States than he did of returning to the old country. Stifle's grandfather was a farmer in Crawford County and one of the earliest providing oil wells was on this farm. (William Stifle's Cabin is seen in painting)


William graduated from Merom Bluff College in Indiana, taught school in Illinois for some time, and then came to California where he first tried his hand a selling real estate in Los Angeles. This not proving to his liking, he moved north. While working on the estate of a prominent San Francisco financier, he made up his mind to try prospecting. He went to Georgetown, bought a burro and equipment and prospected in the vicinity.


While it is not know as to just why Stifle was attracted to this locality, later newspaper clipping refer to his panning for gold on a serpentine belt running east and south of Georgetown, and having assay tests showing nickel ore with some silver present. Gold colors can still be obtained by panning in Traverse creek on the claim. Jack Stifle recalls tales by old timers of Chinese miners having a cabin and sluicing above the junction of Traverse and Rock Canyon creeks (site covered by the present Keystone claim). The Chinese were later victims of smallpox, and stones marking their graves near the site of the burned cabin could be seen as late as the 1940's.


El Dorado County records show that the original Stifle claim was recorded November 4, 1918.


In a letter to a friend in North Bloomington in 1924, Stifle complains that a man whom he took along as a partner to do assessment work on claims in Chocolate Mountains in Nevada had not proven to be much of a prospector. He continues that, he had stopped off in Los Angeles on the way back to sell some of his emeralds, and that he was going back with some more just as soon as he dug them up. He wanted to find a partner as he felt that it would take some cash, but felt that they would make a handsome return as they had the only emeralds in the United States outside of North Carolina. "Can get fifty men with money, as partners, but they don't want to work" was how he stated it.


Articles in Georgetown, Stockton and Placerville newspapers of December 1924 state that emeralds of commercial value were found by Stifle at a depth of 8 to 50 feet. "Pockets containing about a pint of crystals were found in hornblende schist veins, cutting the serpentine, principally in a 175 tunnel on the Stifle claim. Stifle claims to have found and sold some 4,000 carats of these crystals, pronounced by San Francisco experts as being genuine emeralds."


Adolf Pabst, University of California geologist, mentions small crystals of vesuvianite being sold by mineral dealers in 1925. His report in Volume 21, Report of California State Mineralogist, states "Veins exposed in numerous pits and prospect holes. Veins in main gem pit on West Hill (small hill west of Traverse Creek and north of Bear Creek Road) 3 inches thick, worked to a depth of 15 feet for 50 feet in strike. Most common crystals are yellow green. Violet and purple crystals are rare and found only in patches lining vugs". He also mentions finding colorless grossularite crystals from main pit.


In Volume 22 of the California State Mineralogists Report, reference is made of emerald beryl being found near Georgetown, but re-examination of material indicates it is a green pyroxene rather than beryl. (Small vesuvianite crystals may still be found in an area above the mine tunnel on the original Stifle claim. Jack Stifle and some of the early club members have sizable green crystals in their collections).


Sometime around 1926, Stifle was contacted by a man who had either worked for or represented the Cornwall Tin Mines of Wales, who was sure than tin ore would be found on the property. No records exist to substantiate this, but Jack Stifle recalls that a man who was supposedly a partner of William Stifle's was killed in an automobile accident in 1929.


Jack Stifle became aware of the Stifle property when he first visited his cousin on Thanksgiving Day in 1929. In later years, a need for lumber to complete housing projects in San Leandro caused Jack Stifle to purchase the Bird Ranch several miles east of the claims. Bird was an old sea captain, who in early days had homesteaded the ranch and developed a thriving apple and pear orchard. Sawdust piles on the Bear Creek Road still mark the site of the mill that Jack Stifle built to get out the lumber.


William Stifle was strong in both body and mind. His cousin remembers him as a tall, white-haired man, who at the age of over 70 was still vigorous and active around the claims. A clipping left in the cabin after his death indicated his interest in the humanitarian ideas of the time. Those of the life and philosophy of Abraham Lincoln dominated his files. A card in his handwriting states "Wishing a Happy and Prosperous New Year to every man who swings a pick. Take courage miners we are living in a wonderful country."


William Stifle had confided in his cousin, Jack, his disappointment in not having accomplished anything for the good of his fellow man. For this reason, when the claims were deeded to Jack's daughter upon the old man's death, Jack Stifle had discussed with Mrs. Amy Drysdale of Georgetown about deeding the claims to the University of California School of Mining. For some reason, the University had shown little interest. When George (Bert) Young learned of this from Mrs. Drysdale, he told her he felt sure the Society would be glad to take them over.


In July of 1954, Jack Stifle arranged for the Society to take over the claims by means of a quit claim deed and bill of sale for the cabin and tools and furnishings.


In 1957, two members of the Society (Bert Young and H.N. Schultz) resurveyed the original Happy Hills Claims (10 claims of 20 acres each located between 1918 and 1928) and filed on the present five claims of approximately 100 acres.


Prior to relinquishing ownership to the U.S. Forestry Service, the El Dorado Mineral & Gem Society held a special use permit for two acres containing the site of the Stifle cabin and outbuildings for use as a private Society Clubhouse, issued by the U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, on a year-to-year basis, for a yearly rental fee.


Research by Harley Bareuther. Reference credit gratefully acknowledged to Mr. and Mrs. Jack Stifle, Mr. George "Bert" Young, and Mrs. Beverly Cola of the El Dorado County and Gem Society.CA.

11th Apr 2014 01:32 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


Excellent!You can upload it into the description block of the locality file. Is there any copyrighted material in the writeup??Thanks!


Chet

11th Apr 2014 13:46 UTCTony Charlton

Hey-loo Chet,

This article was copied from the El Dorado Mineral and Gem Society, of which I am a member.

As far as I am aware there is no copyright on the information, but I will check with them to be sure.

Jake Harper said that He moved it to the site page. (I am still trying to learn how to use a computer.)

11th Apr 2014 14:37 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

I saw it last night. Great job. I appreciate the help on this magnificent state! That is the type of data we would like to have for all locality files!


Chet

14th Apr 2014 21:30 UTCTony Charlton

Chet,

I checked with the society and there are no copyrights on the information. I will check for copyrights first with any other stuff I can contribute.

14th Apr 2014 23:42 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Thanks!


Chet

20th Apr 2014 03:14 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

Hi, Chet!


How's the update to Inyo County going? When might you be able to conflate the two Santa Rosa mines near Darwin? Did you get the updated mineral list I sent you by e-mail?


I'm planning a talk about the mine at the CMMA Symposium in early May and will repeat it at the NCMA Symposium in El Dorado, California at the end of May. I'd like the most current status; right now, I'm just saying that it will be done.


Thanks,


Steve

20th Apr 2014 18:01 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Steve,


I am almost half way through Inyo Co. right now. Later today I will jump ahead and update the Santa Rosa files for you. No problem!


Chet

20th Apr 2014 19:27 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Steve,


Your all set on the Santa Rosa. What's there now is the whole enchilada (sauce, cheese and sour cream!). Note that it is not in the Darwin District but it is in the Darwin Quadrangle. It lies N of the Talc City District and West of the Lee District, in what is an undistricted area as far as I can ascertain at this time.

19th Jun 2014 22:10 UTCJason Ferguson

Good afternoon! New to this website and new to rock hounding stuff... minus gold prospecting. Anyway I don't know where to discuss decent locations and what not to dig for quartz crystals and other minerals, but when I saw california I figured this is the best place to ask?


Just in case it isnt, I'll continue the convo once confirmed.


Thanks

20th Jun 2014 01:12 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Jason,


The best forum to discuss actual collecting in California would be the "COLLECTING" forum. General discussions of California-related mineralogical or mining/mining history issues can be included here. Thanks for your interest in Mindat!!


Chet Lemanski

6th Jul 2014 17:27 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Well, Inyo County is completed after 5 months of effort. It was an interesting county to tackle to say the least. Initially it seemed that half the county's localities were attributed to the Black Mountains. All should now be rather accurate; however, simply due to the vague nature of the data regarding many localities, it is certain that there remains room for fine tuning. This is particularly the case of attributing mines and prospects to a district, versus another district or no district. Literature consulted in the effort points out that the district boundaries are often vague in themselves and older districts were replaced or partially overlain by more recent districts.


Chet Lemanski

6th Jul 2014 17:29 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Onward!!


I will return to the Mother Lode Belt counties now, starting from the South. Calaveras County is next. Due to the number of files (over 1,500) it is anticipated that this county will take about 4 to 5 months of effort, despite its relatively small size.


Chet Lemanski

6th Jul 2014 20:49 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

NOTE: The files of Calaveras County are under active revision, commencing July 6, 2014. Please do not make any changes until this process is completed, at which time a posting will be made under the California thread under the Localities forum, Mindat message board. Any questions, please contact Chet Lemanski. Thank you!

24th Aug 2014 17:53 UTCTony Charlton

Posted photos to the Black Chasm Caverns, Amador co., CA page-- and they were removed-- why?

24th Aug 2014 19:44 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


Please see my private message to you!


Chet Lemanski

7th Dec 2014 21:36 UTCLee

Hello California,


I am a geode hunter from Ohio. Rock and Mineral enthusiast. Hunt in southern Indiana. Son is building home in Mountain Ranch, Calaveras County. Spoke with a couple of the construction guys working on his home and they said that there are geodes in the abandoned mine areas. Wanting to get some expert advice. Are there geodes and is there someplace that we can mineral hunt? Will heading there for a week in April 2014. Anxious to explore and discover. I was also told that there is a new rock shop in that area. Looking for some guidance/help to make the week successful and fun. Thank you!


Lee

7th Dec 2014 22:42 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Lee,


Thank you for your interest in Mindat!


I am not aware of any geode occurrences in Calaveras County whatever. The geology is not right throughout most of the county. Perhaps there are other folks from the local area who might know something that I don't. There are undoubtedly areas to collect but most of the old mines are located on private land.


Chet Lemanski

8th Dec 2014 01:23 UTCJohn Kirtz

In Inyo county, just north of Crystal Ridge there is a surface mine that is unnamed on all maps I have seen. It is just above the Owens River and Powerline Rd. and approached by N2486. There is also a shaft directly bellow at the base of the hill. Is it unusual that a mine of this size and visibility(approx..100 meters long)is unlabeled while so many small shafts are? The best indicator I found there was chrysocolla and our camp had spectacular views of the Sierras and the Owens River but I would love to be able to put a name to the place. Thank you for your consideration and efforts here at Mindat!

21st Feb 2015 16:28 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

CALAVERAS COUNTY IS FINALLY COMPLETED!! This one took some time but it is not done to the extent it can be without detailed research at local libraries and county records offices and historical societies archives.


Chet Lemanski

21st Feb 2015 16:51 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

PLEASE NOTE THAT AMADOR COUNTY IS NOW UNDER SYSTEMATIC REVISION, EFFECTIVE 2/21/2015. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY EDITS TO THE LOCALITY FILES IN THIS COUNTY WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH CHET LEMANSKI, UNTIL THE REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE AND A NOTICE IS POSTED IN THIS FORUM. THANK YOU!!


Chet Lemanski

4th Apr 2015 19:34 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Amador County is completed. It went very fast since it has the fewest number of files in the Mother Lode region and many of those had a relative paucity of data. I have already begun El Dorado County.

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY EDITS TO THE LOCALITY FILES IN EL DORADO COUNTY WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH CHET LEMANSKI, UNTIL THE REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE AND A NOTICE IS POSTED IN THIS FORUM. THANK YOU!!


Chet

15th Apr 2015 09:33 UTCAnonymous User

Hello, I had a question about something I found while searching maps of my local area, Novato. On the Novato page there is a location labeled only as "RMP Pit No. 1" which reportedly contains Lawsonite, 'Garnet', and 'Mica Group', but it does not appear on any maps or have any listed location. Does anyone know anything more about this location or the validity of the information?

Much appreciated,

James

15th Apr 2015 11:42 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

James, that info and locality name came from a serious local field collector, Chuck Trantham, member of the BAM club in San Francisco (Bay Area Mineralogists). If you are interested in serious investigation of your local minerals, and are not yet a member of the BAM, I highly recommend you consider joining them and participating in their activities. Nice group of people and much more knowledgeable about minerals than those in most gem and mineral clubs. I'm sure they could point you to lots of localities in your area that are not found on maps nor even yet in Mindat.

15th Aug 2015 17:05 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

El Dorado County is completed. It went relatively fast since it has a good percetage of files with mininmal MRDS data. I have already begun Placer County.


PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY EDITS TO THE LOCALITY FILES IN PLACER COUNTY WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH CHET LEMANSKI, UNTIL THE REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE AND A NOTICE IS POSTED IN THIS FORUM. THANK YOU!!


Chet

14th Feb 2016 19:45 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Chet,

See my message http://www.mindat.org/mesg-105-374234.html: the New Melones Dam has been entered 3 times inthe database.

14th Feb 2016 20:06 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Erik,


I fixed the duplication of the dam page for Calaveras County. The so-called third file pertains to the dam in relation to Tuolumne County. It spans the county line in an area where there are scarce features/localities to use as a reference for the mineral files so I have it entered for both counties. This is okay.

14th Feb 2016 20:42 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Chet, I understand, but a dam spanning a county line is not something one encounters every day. I'm glad things got fixed, and I must say: thanks for the quick response and action.

23rd Apr 2016 22:34 UTCTony Charlton

Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> El Dorado County is completed. It went relatively

> fast since it has a good percetage of files with

> mininmal MRDS data. I have already begun Placer

> County.

>

> PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY EDITS TO THE LOCALITY FILES

> IN PLACER COUNTY WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH

> CHET LEMANSKI, UNTIL THE REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE

> AND A NOTICE IS POSTED IN THIS FORUM. THANK YOU!!

>

> Chet



Are You done with Placer county yet?

26th Apr 2016 17:38 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Tony,


Yes, Placer County has been completed. Open to further input!


Chet

26th Apr 2016 17:39 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY EDITS TO THE LOCALITY FILES IN KERN COUNTY WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH CHET LEMANSKI, UNTIL THE REVISIONS ARE COMPLETE AND A NOTICE IS POSTED IN THIS FORUM. THANK YOU!!


Chet Lemanski

26th Apr 2016 17:40 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Sierra County was finished this morning. That completes all of the Sierra Mountains/Mother Lode counties. Kern County is next.


Chet Lemanski

26th Feb 2017 17:00 UTCskirmante rudzinske

A very touristy question. I need a help. I live in uk and will have holidays in california. Nevef been therde before. I am gemologist. I would like to visit some mine and buy some local gemstones. Have no clue where to go and how to look for such information. Internet is too full of places. Could anyone recomend me best, beautifull places. What gemstones are most famous in california? Thank you sincerelly for information. Skirma.

18th Apr 2017 06:07 UTCJohn Christian

Benitoite from Central California and colored tourmalines from near San Diego are California classics. Poppy Jasper from Morgan Hill is also world renown. Rock and gem shows in California are a good place to find them. Schedule your trip around one of the shows.

18th Apr 2017 15:15 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

There are a few pay-to-dig mineral sites in California. An internet search should reveal them. We also have numerous mineral shows; some small and some large. Depends upon where you go (north, central, or south...California is a huge place), and what date(s).

18th Apr 2017 22:14 UTCMichael Harwell

Can we find bentonite there or would we be paying for a long walk? Is it worth it?

Hmmm you caught my interest. Thank you.

Has anyone been there?

19th Apr 2017 04:36 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

I haven't been to the benitoite fee dig. As far as I know, they have a dump pile in a parking lot, and you don't get to go the actual mine site. As to cost and chance to find something, I don't know.

21st Jul 2017 14:24 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

San Bernardino County is finally completed! Almost a year's effort for the 3,000+ locality files!


If anyone notes any required corrections please let me know.


Chet Lemanski


P.S.: Only 1 more county to go: Riverside. After that I still have to go back and relook several counties (Imperial County to the coast and up the coast to Siskiyou County) that I completed before I had all the tools that became available while I was still working on the counties up near the Oregon-Nevada borders area. Please do not make any locality string changes on Riverside County files until the county is completed.
 
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