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Native silver in quartz ?

Posted by Heath Barnes  
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:29PM
Rob Woodside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uwe is quite right. Attack it with a needle and
> see if tiny plates result, then you probably have
> a mica. The plates should be elastic. No plates Rob the material thats not tarnished comes away quite easily with a needle, the tarnished stuff is tuffer but again does shift with the needle, as ive said to Claire ime gonna try get some better pics posted of all sides, thanks for help, i wish ide found the site before now.
>
> The last of your 3 pictures looks like a flint
> nodule. Similar nodules can be found along the
> Atlantic coast, They were ballast from England and
> dumped to take on cargo for the mother country. The last is as you say a flint burrow nodule, this one never made the boat though;winking smiley
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:29PM
1) Quartz + mica cobble.
2) Hematite pebble, perhaps?
3) Septarian concretion.
4) Flint.
The latter two are quite nice specimens smileys with beer
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:32PM
Rob Woodside Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is what I have been told. The white rind is
> suppposed to be from English Chalk deposits.Thats the story as ive heard it Rob, thing is we aint got no chalk cliffs round here there in the south were we defenetly aint had no ice flows from !
avatar Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:32PM
    
Alfredo nailed 3
avatar Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:33PM
    
I don't really know but maybe the glaciers ate the chalk???
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 07:35PM
Yea Rob i think i need one of them flags eh !
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 10:25PM
Here are some improved pics hopefully plus some other items hope ime not putting too many on ?
Attachments:
open | download - DSCF1077-001.JPG (125.4 KB)
open | download - DSCF1081-001.JPG (116.1 KB)
open | download - DSCF1075-001.JPG (102.9 KB)
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 05, 2012 10:47PM
And the rest ps is there any probs posting more as i have plenty iide like to show and learn more about ?
Attachments:
open | download - DSCF1085-002.JPG (109 KB)
open | download - DSCF1093-001.JPG (77.9 KB)
open | download - DSCF1096-001.JPG (74.6 KB)
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 12:45AM
    
Hello Heath,
We don't know how much experience you have had with chemistry or whether or not you have access to a chemist......BUT, a sure test for silver is to dissolve the metal in a ~25% solution of Nitric acid kept warm in a glass container (no need to boil and only a small fragment is needed). After the metal has disolved, add some Muriatic acid (a small amount.....or common table salt). If a feathery white precipitate forms, you have either silver or lead. Let the precipitate settle, pour off the liquid, and add a quantity of warm water greater than the amount of liquid left in the container. If the feathery precipitate dissolves in the warm water, you have lead....if the precipitate doesen't dissove you probably have silver. If you filter off the precipitate (with a coffee filter), put it in the sun, if it is silver it will turn dark lavender or even black. The key to this procedure is the temperature of the water you add - Silver Chloride is insoluble in hot water whereas Lead Chloride is soluble.

Good luck & have fun!!!

Don S.
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 07:04AM
Heath - I like your blog, it is cool and very very interesting!

I hate to put a spanner in the works, but I dont think it is chalk or flint. I have been to the southern england area of chalks and flints and your peice is nothing like that. I reckon yours is quartz (or calcite) with phyllosilicote (mica grp) - nice though; the black bit, I dont know. The rectangle pebble is nice, very nice. Haematite iron with a thin vein of ..... running through it giving it a weakest point of fracture.

In Teeside, there is a geology mueseum? or the university runs geology? Could they be helpful to you? I know that over here in Oulu, the geology museum and university have been very helpful - they even speak english!

Happy digging and finding

Claire
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 01:06PM
Don Saathoff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Heath,
> We don't know how much experience you have had
> with chemistry or whether or not you have access
> to a chemist......BUT, a sure test for silver is
> to dissolve the metal in a ~25% solution of Nitric
> acid kept warm in a glass container (no need to
> boil and only a small fragment is needed). After
> the metal has disolved, add some Muriatic acid (a
> small amount.....or common table salt). If a
> feathery white precipitate forms, you have either
> silver or lead. Let the precipitate settle, pour
> off the liquid, and add a quantity of warm water
> greater than the amount of liquid left in the Thanks for that Don and i will attempt the procedure, but ime far from experienced in chemistry!
> container. If the feathery precipitate dissolves
> in the warm water, you have lead....if the
> precipitate doesen't dissove you probably have
> silver. If you filter off the precipitate (with a
> coffee filter), put it in the sun, if it is silver
> it will turn dark lavender or even black. The key
> to this procedure is the temperature of the water
> you add - Silver Chloride is insoluble in hot
> water whereas Lead Chloride is soluble.
>
> Good luck & have fun!!!
>
> Don S.
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 01:24PM
claire Brimson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heath - I like your blog, it is cool and very very
> interesting!
>
> I hate to put a spanner in the works, but I dont
> think it is chalk or flint. I have been to the
> southern england area of chalks and flints and
> your peice is nothing like that. I reckon yours
> is quartz (or calcite) with phyllosilicote (mica
> grp) - nice though; the black bit, I dont know.
> The rectangle pebble is nice, very nice.
> Haematite iron with a thin vein of ..... running
> through it giving it a weakest point of fracture. Thanks Clair to be honest the blogs a bit rough and theres proberbly incorrect posts early on, its been a learning proscess, ! I use the blog as a record for myself so that doesn't help its presentation i suppose, ile sort it out one day !winking smiley
The gravel beds ive uncovered are a mystery at the moment, ive got the help of a couple of local geologists, and we have done quite a bit of work yet we seem to uncover more questions than answers. ie I have descovered the near by Cleveland dyke ( Basaltic Andasite) quite easily attracts a small magnet, and that the gravel beds contain lots of it, along with other unidentified magnetic material other than load stone. The beds seem for some reason to remarkably preserve both organic and mineral material including bone and carboniferous - jurassic and triassic fossils.

>
>
> In Teeside, there is a geology mueseum? or the
> university runs geology? Could they be helpful to
> you? I know that over here in Oulu, the geology
> museum and university have been very helpful -
> they even speak english!
>
> Happy digging and finding
>
> Claire
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 01:41PM
This piece i can never seem to get close enough to do the crystals justice, when moved the crystals realy come to life if ya get my meaning, the matrix is very hard and i think but am not experience to know for sure! seem pentagonal.
Attachments:
open | download - DSCF1089-002.JPG (92.4 KB)
open | download - DSCF1091-002.JPG (87.9 KB)
avatar Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 06:26PM
    
Thanks for the new pictures. It is definately not Silver. Perhaps an amphibole? What is its hardness?

Claire, why do think this is not flint?
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Heath says the purported silver does not produce micaceous flakes, I agree with you that it does look like some kind of mica..
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 06:43PM
Thanks Rob can you tell me why you are sure its not silver is it the new pics that have made your mind up ? and also do you know the best method of cleaning the quartze ie is there a way of making it more clear as the silver material can be seen through it at the top.
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 06:46PM
Heath Barnes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Rob can you tell me why you are sure its
> not silver is it the new pics that have made your
> mind up ? and also do you know the best method of
> cleaning the quartze ie is there a way of making
> it more clear as the silver material can be seen
> through it at the top.
Forgot Rob how best can i tell its hardness ime really new to this?
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 07:21PM
Rob it scratches steel and and fingernails but not glass 6-7 ?
avatar Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 07:50PM
    
The new pictures show that th 'Ag' is too white and it has the foliated texture of mica group.

Tiny inclusions make quartz milky, just as water droplets make clouds white. Sadly you can't render milky quartz clear.

I've been criticized for suggesting hardness tests and there was talk of making a video or at least a good description, but I don't know if this was ever done. Mohs developed the hardness scale in the early 19th century and its ease and simplicity make it, with streak, still the first line of attack when identifying minerals.

First as with streak, pick an inconspicuous spot to do the test, say on the back or broken surface. Do not destroy good specimens by testing on good xl faces leaving bruises and gouges on what would have been an aesthetic specimen. (You needn't worry too much about this "Ag")

The Mohs scale from 1 to 10 is based on what will scratch what and starts with the softest and ends with the hardest..
1 Talc
2 gypsum,
3 calcite
3 fluorite
5 apatite
6 feldspar
7 Quartz
8 Topaz
9 corundum
10 diamond
You can buy commercial hardness points, but I'm not sure how long they would last and give no better results than small pieces of these minerals that one accumulates. Until you get such you can use a finger nail (about 2), copper penny (these are scarce now, hardness is 3) Steel knife (5), Window glass (5.5, Mohs hardness is only reported to the nearest 0.5)

To measure hardness you need a pointy bit on the scratcher and a flatish bit on the scratchee. Then firmly try to make a scratch on the flattish bit. Splintery (such as your "Ag") or powdery minerals may appear to be scratched by something softer, so beware. You can sort this out by reversing the scratcher and scratchee or approaching the hardness from above or below. You must also make sure that you do have a scratch and not a line of debris. So rub the purported scratch to remove debris and try to catch the scratch with your thumbnail. If your nail catches on the scratch you have a real one. Some minerals, possibly your "Ag", may have a softer altered surface so a fresh surface is best. This is a petty crude way of determining toughness of a mineral and so although many minerals are slightly harder in one direction of an xl than another, the Mohs test usually misses this . A notable exeception is Kyanite, formerly known for this reason as Disthene,
avatar Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 07:54PM
    
Scratches steel but not glass, so he hardness is about 5. Silver streak with hardness 5. Could be an amphibole, but other may have better ideas.
Re: Native silver in quartz ?
May 06, 2012 08:41PM
Don't know if this helps but the piece weighs just short of 6 lb i woul say the quartz silver material are not far from equal in the total mass, hope that makes sence!
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