Copyrighting photographs

I'm sorry you took this so personally Jamey.

I stand by my views entirely on this matter, although I do understand that the needs of the professional photographer who has to earn his living through the camera may well be different to that of the majority of amateur uploaders who upload here.

But as I keep saying (and you seem not to be noticing), this is my PERSONAL VIEW and not a rule about how things should be uploaded to mindat. I'm not trying to insult people who put copyright marks on their images. I was answering an original question from someone who may not already be doing this, and my advice for them is not to do it. Your advice is that they should. That's absolutely fine! We both give our advice, and those reading can make up their own mind about what they want to do. Don't get too upset just because my view is different to yours.

As for people complaining about my photos - they do! I even get other management members sending me "complain" emails about quality on my photo uploads (or lack of information in the descriptions). I'm treated no differently to anyone else.

Jolyon

Jamey

To keep it short, after reading your point of view in regards to watermarks or captions on photos, I may have had a change of mind to a degree. I should say that I am insulted by your comments as I wasn't warm to captions . But then I am not offended in the least and will not go into a rant. Copyright should mean something, but unless you have the money and / or means to persue the matter, it doesn't mean much. If captioning a picture is a means of protecting it, then perhaps it is a necessary evil.

I don't think that anyone on here had intentions of insulting the pro-caption proponents and the comments should be taken for what they are worth. Conversely it could be said that your last post is an insult or attack on the other point of view. So lets keep perspective and some civility. As you said, there are two sides to every story and verbal bullying will not solve the problem or bring others to your point of view. Civil dialogue goes a long way!

Jamey:
If your photography, as you contend "has been proven decades ago," they why do you seem to have the need to find insult in this discussion. I do not see that anyone has been trying to slam or insult anyone else, except maybe for you in that last post. Is your ego that fragile that you must find it insulting if someone doesn't agree with you? This is a topic that I think bears discussing, but if you want to participate on Mindat, please keep it civil and polite. Perhaps you would like to post a few photos, too, watermarks included, so others here can judge for themselves whether you're as good as you claim to be.

There are some incredibly good photographers on Mindat such as Volker Betz and Vita (above) who are willing to share their skills with this community freely, despite the risk that someone might steal their work. I've learned a lot from these people. I've also found my own photos lifted from this or my own website numerous times, usually for use by someone on e-bay who is too lazy to take their own. Once someone actually re-posted some of my photos to Mindat claiming they were his own. This is the risk we take for sharing these things with each other. Whether this is an acceptable risk is up to each participant to decide for themselves. I've also been contacted by legitimate (and paying) publishers who have seen my photos on Mindat, and had my photos used in several earth science texts as a result.

Life is full of choices, very few of them free of some sort of risk. If you want to be part of the Mindat "community" I think most would prefer that you participate rather than simply pontificate.

Jesse

Hmmm, Jamey, could you point out some specific insulting passages so I can recalibrate my insultometer ?
luckily, text can be automatically removed (think browser plugin, so even if you post a picture with copyright texts, my browser removes them before such offsensive content reaches my sensitive eyes), which kind of strengthens our point that text overlays are useless:
[cvsp.cs.ntua.gr]
watermarks and steganography, being "invisible", are not the object of this discussion.

Friends, does not really make sense to address pasted text directly into the image, because any reasonable thinking person knows as
copyright protection is useless. I understand my pasted text is just my signature photo.
Many people download our photos for their learning purposes and I want the people in my case, not looking at no-name pictures but to know that this photograph, I am doing personally. Who will want to exploit(misappropriate ) my photo does it whether there is text or not! I tried to create a new design and I think it might be acceptable.

Not problem to provide images for study purposes
but I would if my photos are downloaded and I know that they are downloaded to the one who can download the information was the name of the author.
I absolutely agree with Jolyon that it is inappropriate to upload directly to the author's name in the picture but if placed out of the picture not affect the viewing and the one who downloaded it will have at least information about author.
From my perspective, this is practical for both parties! For me as an author but also for those who have downloud thousand pictures and would like to contact me. It is already happened to me repeatedly, and in particular on the basis that the photographs were shown my name.



open attachments


Vita



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2009 06:02PM by Vítězslav Snášel.

Joylon,
I think you missed my point, it was not you insulting them. People calling them ugly, ruined, etc. Quite frankly that is rude. Maybe they dislike the copyrights/watermarks, but that is no reason to insult others. I personally find it appalling. I am not insulted personally, so please do not take it that way. But to many it would be insulting. No different then saying some one's pictures suck period, not very nice at all. There are much more polite ways of stating aside from using harsh words as ruined, ugly, etc. Again, I am NOT personally offended at all, just find it very impolite on the part of the posters using the degrading terms about others' work over a simple watermark.

It is a bit hard to offend me, I have competed in many live expos and get critiqued much harder face to face with the judge(s) and viewers, so some internet comments are anything but insulting to me personally, rofl. Internet comments about my work that are awesome.. great... sucks... crappy... etc.. mean exactly nothing to me, never have and never will, unless they are constructive to allow me to get better as photography is a never ending learning experience, if someone tells you differently, then they know nothing about photography! But I participate in many forums and you would be surprised how offended many would get reading those kind of words, my whole point of my last post.

To answer the question about my work, look around here, search Google, plenty of examples all over the net, books, etc. Not hard to find as there are plenty of links and images right here on these forums.

Jamey

I think photos with obtrusive text added to them (whether it is copyright text or other) are more ugly than the same photos without such text.

This does not mean a photo with text added to it is worthless or too ugly to upload, it's just I appreciate them less than I would the untainted photo.

But a good photo is still a good photo if it has a copyright message on it or not.

Jolyon

I think that gives us Mindat place for it so we can show our work.
Most of us have done with the knowledge that their work could be misused but it is a lot of photographers here on Mindat,for which the benefit that pictures knows many people.
At the moment as created my Mindat Home Page so I canceled all evidence of minerals that I had in PC
because Mindat Home Page offers me absolutely everything what I need for my hobby.
Anytime - anyone - anywhere I can give a link to the photo from my gallery and have nothing to send by e-mail etc.

For this reason, I see absolutely no problem to adapt to the requirements so that my photos are also acceptable for others !
.....as I write above

Vita



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2009 06:04AM by Vítězslav Snášel.

for me its not good, a person want steal a photo is not interested the copyright its present in the text of the subtitles, another is if the copyright its present on the photo. I doubt many my type of copyright I put in my photos ruin this



Another question is if I put a biggest watermark, type this



this is another question, this " ruin " the photo why if I put a similar watermark in a mineral photo its horrible. The question is, I am a professional photographer, this is my work, and I not like a person steal a my photo and use this without my permission. Another question, normaly I put photos of minerals from Museums, and they want the photo not go around internet without permission of the Museum and of the photographer, after, if a photo go stolen, its only legal problems for the site from where the photo its go stolen.

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Una fotografia bisogna leggerla, inutile fare mille complimenti quando questa magari ha dominanti di colore sbagliate, troppo contrasto etc... perchè già questo basta per rovinarla

Matteo,
Of course, it is bad when someone uses our photos without our permission.
There is more to it that it would be better to put our names outside their own picture.

If anyone wants to remove it does it whether it be in the picture or the author text down picture.

Vita

Delete the text in the photo is a matter of minutes! Therefore I think that is one if it is in the picture or out of the picture but as part of the picture.

But as I wrote above - I think it is good for both parties to be part of the author name of the photo. It can do so as not to disturb the image and perception placed anywhere under the name of the image. Many people who contacted me, did just by being my name on photo.

But this is obviously just my opinion and I am not a professional photographer.


Vita



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2009 08:22AM by Vítězslav Snášel.

Jolyon,
I think the core problem is that the illegal use download photos, download the image only and it is then placed on another site without the copyright information and author, he who can then download a photo can argue the fact that he thought that photos for free use.

I have personally met with the fact that my photos where not in the image copyright information are downloaded to a CD and offered for sale on burses without my knew! After my inquiry as possible, I got a reply that the person thought that they were free to use! Although it is clear that copyright law applies just about everywhere but on the other hand, it must be said that, provided they have not name author in which the information on the author included as part of the whole picture (¨ in my case, I will in fixing in the frame images ) can operate the fact that the author was unknown.

Information about the author, of course, go to insert a photo so as not disturbed look. But in my opinion, there should be download with photo as part of photo.

The optimal solution would be to lock down information about the author as part of photo.

Vita



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2009 07:53AM by Vítězslav Snášel.

Vítězslav Snášel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Delete the text in the photo is a matter of
> minutes! Therefore I think that is one if it is in
> the picture or out of the picture but as part of
> the picture.
>
> But as I wrote above - I think it is good for both
> parties to be part of the author name of the
> photo. It can do so as not to disturb the image
> and perception placed anywhere under the name of
> the image. Many people who contacted me, did just
> by being my name on photo.
>
> But this is obviously just my opinion and I am not
> a professional photographer.
>
>
> Vita

yes its possible delete, but in the site here its well visible with copyright write, a good point for an eventual legal controversy

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Una fotografia bisogna leggerla, inutile fare mille complimenti quando questa magari ha dominanti di colore sbagliate, troppo contrasto etc... perchè già questo basta per rovinarla

Vítězslav Snášel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jolyon,
> I think the core problem is that the illegal use
> download photos, download the image only and it is
> then placed on another site without the copyright
> information and author, he who can then download a
> photo can argue the fact that he thought that
> photos for free use.


right, if Jolyon confirm me for the 100% any of my photos have problems of download from other persons without permission, I but with no problem biggest photos without any copyright write....but this is not possible in any site on internet

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Una fotografia bisogna leggerla, inutile fare mille complimenti quando questa magari ha dominanti di colore sbagliate, troppo contrasto etc... perchè già questo basta per rovinarla

Matteo Chinellato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vítězslav Snášel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Delete the text in the photo is a matter of
> > minutes! Therefore I think that is one if it is
> in
> > the picture or out of the picture but as part
> of
> > the picture.
> >
> > But as I wrote above - I think it is good for
> both
> > parties to be part of the author name of the
> > photo. It can do so as not to disturb the image
> > and perception placed anywhere under the name
> of
> > the image. Many people who contacted me, did
> just
> > by being my name on photo.
> >
> > But this is obviously just my opinion and I am
> not
> > a professional photographer.
> >
> >
> > Vita
>
> yes its possible delete, but in the site here its
> well visible with copyright write, a good point
> for an eventual legal controversy



In both cases, ( below) - is what I think - no matter whether it's in the picture or down the picture
- but it must form a whole - as one photo. No one can excuse don´t know author and think that photos for free use.

Of course, any interference in the photograph is illegal but if you put a text directly to an image or down picture!
Who removed and used without the consent of the author commits a conflict with copyright law, whether it is in the picture or elsewhere in the photo as a whole photo!

Is that our photos will be downloaded and misused it nobody can guarantee!
But once I met with that used my photo with that question is thought to be free because it was never given text.
But from my perspective is really matter if it's across the photographs will place the image directly or under own image. In any event, to download photos with information about the author.


Vita



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2009 08:56AM by Vítězslav Snášel.

Unfortunately if you put photos on the internet you will ALWAYS have some people who will take them and use them without permission, that is a sad fact of life.

It is annoying when you find people trying to benefit from your work without rewarding you, but I cannot imagine anyone taking photos from mindat and using without permission is getting rich from it.

Jolyon

Some years ago a hotel in Bramberg (at the entrance of the Habach valley, Austria) used one of my Habach Emerald photos for their website without asking my permission.......I bet next time I go there with my wife and my daughter we can negotiate a serious discount

Agree Harjo

Dialog on small mineralogical burses.

Question: Hello sir, you know that the CD you sell are my photos?
Answer: Oh no - how do I know!
Q: Where did you withdraw?
Answer: I not download from web-site - it give me a colleague?
Q: Which fellow?
Answer: I do not know how to nominate and have long seen him before!
Q: Did you know that these photos come from Mindat and have them my copyright?
Answer: Mindat ? What is it? (really old man without PC and web-site)

I tried to (with laugh) the old man explained that before I do a single photo, it gives me a lot of work.
And it is everything with it could do.

But repeat - I´m not professional photograph and mineral photo is for me hobby.

Vita



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2009 10:48AM by Vítězslav Snášel.

Jolyon Ralph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I cannot imagine anyone taking photos from mindat
> and using without permission is getting rich from
> it.
>
> Jolyon


depend, we do a hypothesis: a person want write a book on Griesferner Antase's, go in my page and seen tons of photos on this type on Anatase seen I am the unique to have photographed many this Anatase's, and take this without my permission, put the photos in the book and pass for its this photos. Normaly I ask from 40 to 80 euro for photo when I have requests of works for books etc... calculate he put at 40 photos its 3.200,00 euro he take only for photos, after he sale the book and take other money.....again calculate the book have a high request and this it comes reprinted et voilà, you getting rich from it. The unique problem for this person is I put only low quality photos on Mindat, and if I discover this cheats, after I am become rich for the law problems this person have from me.

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Una fotografia bisogna leggerla, inutile fare mille complimenti quando questa magari ha dominanti di colore sbagliate, troppo contrasto etc... perchè già questo basta per rovinarla

> we do a hypothesis: a person want write a book on Griesferner Antase's

I'm sure a book may be interesting to some people, but it certainly won't make anyone a lot of money. And printing a book without asking for permission for photos will mean you could sue him anyway, so you really have no worry at all about your example.

Jolyon