POTD......

i second Norman Kings opinion .. POTD is POTD
And for me it is the uniqueness which is the first criterion .. second a rare or uncommon form, third a good photograph, fourth etc etc ... but in the end it is what those who choose it like on that specific day. No questioning about that to me. This is not a showroom or a competition for photographers ... there are other forae for this (like fotocommunity.de in GER). There has been a time i remember when there were complaints about "every day a micrograph from italian contributors as POTD" ... same issue, same answer .. there were good and unique photographs. I think that mindat would best proceed with POTD as it does now, a nice mix of great photos from the technical POV, interesting sites, astonishing views etc. That means more to me than a row of high end pictures i also could buy as calendar or book. If i want that i would do so.

BTW... Donald, your post changed recently ... i think you made a valid point wrt to critics - did you censor that yourself?. But i also have to defend Matteo - first he is a great photographer, i really like his work also outside the mineral world and second he was very kind to grant me use of his photos for some info displays in the past without any charge (only credits) and provided high res files lightning fast .. so give him a break. I understand his critics from the technical POV but in this case it doesn´t hit the "soul" of the POTD.

Cheers
4 cents ;)

Roger

Roger Lang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i second Norman Kings opinion .. POTD is POTD
> And for me it is the uniqueness which is the first
> criterion .. second a rare or uncommon form, third
> a good photograph, fourth etc etc ... but in the
> end it is what those who choose it like on that
> specific day. No questioning about that to me.
> This is not a showroom or a competition for
> photographers ...

For myself as well; POTD is what it is and should stay that way. Also, I look forward to each afternoon when there is a new POTD posted. Its like getting a small gift every single day of the year.

I would like to commend Matteo on posting an apparently unpopular opinion in his attempt to improve the quality of mindat.
You can tell that he is passionate about his work, and I hope he continues adding to the database.

I have wondered about the name for Photo Of The Day. Would it be more appropriate to call in the Picture Of The Day to cover digital scans, Scanning Electron Micrographs, postcards, watercolors etc?

-Dean Allum

I critics the technical POV of the photo, not the mineral show. Probably I look to much the photo under the view of photographer, normaly, example today nice pyrite, but background out of focus, ghosts on borders etc.... all problems its easy take off with a normaly photo program. Also the eye wants its part, not only the mineral eye

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)

Hi all,
Dean, i do not think that Matteos opinion is unpopular .. his critics are based on a technical POV and certainly valid. But in my opinion (and i read that others second that) it is not photo of the day but picture of the day, as you wrote .. you have my FULLACK. It is part of the mindat philosophy of a user driven database and forum. Sometimes i also wondered what the criterions were to choose the POTD .. but if you leave the path of technical perfection to the joy of everdays surprise what the POTD may bring one can enjoy it thoroughly. BTW i happen to know how the iridescent limonite POTD from a few days ago was made. Technically maybe very unorthodox but a great subject and certainly worth it - i really enjoyed.

Matteo, you criticise ghosts on borders etc. From the technical POV valid, but not everybody has Photoshop or GIMP (ok, freeware but rather complicated) or else with blue-fringe filters, contrast mask etc. - and without profound knowledge of those correcting filters in pixel editors you are lost as an amateur. I think that having a POTD is encouraging people to contribute and it should be encouraging yourself to contribute more of your excellent pictures as there will be some more POTDs for sure.

Cheers
Roger

The best way to help improve the quality of POTD photographs is to help teach people how to make their photos better!

Jolyon

I honestly love seeing what the POTD will be, no matter the subject or the photo quality. The professional photographers will always critique any photo no matter what forum it is presented in; maybe a little constructive criticism is a good thing here (lord knows we could use some of that for the Identity Help photos). While I have no problem seeing the best of the best minerals, I fear that if popular thought wins out here, the users of Mindat will lose seeing the spectacular localities some of these minerals come from, as well some very pretty rocks and geologic features because the photo isn’t perfect.

My one concern I do have is that Jolyon stated “The best way to help improve the quality of POTD photographs is to help teach people how to make their photos better!” However, as I read your homepage Matteo, I see the line “Please don't write to me for ask informations on my photography techniques, its my work and I not speack of this, thanks.” You are a great photographer Matteo, but if you want to see better photos for the POTD, why won’t you share some of these coveted photography techniques? B)

Paul Brandes Wrote:

You are a great
> photographer Matteo, but if you want to see better
> photos for the POTD, why won’t you share some of
> these coveted photography techniques? B)

hello, sorry no, time ago I have speack of some techniques with a person, with the resulted he have use this for to steal me some mineralogical works in a book, from that moment I never give any photo info. Good ok, but not idiot.

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)

Matteo complains that most people do not have enough skill to create good photos for mindat, but is reluctant to share his techniques for better photos because more good photographers reduce his ability to sell images commercially.

this seems an insolvable contradiction to me.

Thankfully there are plenty of photographers who are willing to share their secrets, including of course Jeff Scovil, who is running workshops on advanced mineral photography techniques at our Mindat Conference soon.

Jolyon

no problem, my opinion is this and I not change for sure....the same I say to who in Italy ask to me some photo info. Its my work, is not a my hobby. Others photographers its free to say what they want. I want seen after when others photographers ask a low price from what they ask, and seen clients lost.
I not know in what you work Jolyon, but you are happy if other persons have ask info on your work after they offer the same your work for lowest prices and you lost your clients why they go where the price is lowest?

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2011 08:01AM by Matteo Chinellato.

Matteo, photographic techniques can be learned by anyone. Good photographic techniques only don't make a good photo. Artistic values (like composition, clair-obscur, balance etc) however can't be learned. Either one's an artist or one's not.
Take for example Fred Kruijen or Jean-Marc Joannet, whom I consider to be probably the best micro photographers around. Fred and J-M share their techniques with anyone showing a real interest, yet I've never seen anyone else being able to make such remarkable photographs as Fred's and J-M's! That's because Fred and J-M are artists, and true art can't be copied. Technique is only a vehicle.
Sharing ones knowledge and skills is what makes a place like Mindat very valuable. And if you are very honest Matteo, you also benefited from the skills shared with you by other photographers. I can send you the long topics we wrote on the old Strahlen.org forum, and then have a look at the progress you made. We all did, and that's great, it's the way to get to higher levels. Imagine that I, and the rest of my fellow professional musicians would say the same: "I won't teach anyone to play his/her instrument the way I do because I'm afraid he/she'll become a good musician and will steal some of my work"
That sounds a bit ridiculous, doesn't it?

Harjo Neutkens Wrote:

> That sounds a bit ridiculous, doesn't it?

for me no sorry

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)

No??
That would mean that we can close all conservatories, academies of Art and universities!
If I have a very good student, it makes me proud, and it also makes me look closer at my own skills, and improve myself as a consequence.

a school its a school, a personal work its a personal work...a question is if I open a photography school and I teach what I know to others, another its a personal work

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)

That's your choice Matteo.
The discussion has strayed a bit from the original message, being the quality of POTDs.
I think I showed enough good quality photos from the recent POTDs, and if we want to have an even higher standard, and that's what your initial post was all about, I think by having an active photography board where people share their skills we can raise that level. But, of course, it remains your own choice if you want to share or not. I respect that choice.
And I'll still like your photos very much Matteo ;)

This is a mineral site.
If you want technically brilliant photographs, go to a photography site.


Brilliant photographs cost money, in terms of equipment.
Many mineral collectors cannot afford such expensive equipment, mainly because they are mineral collectors first and formost, and not photographers.

That is my opinion, for what it is worth.

Regards
Eric B)

United Kingdom, Cornwall

I'm sorry, but to me this seems very selfish, and not in the "I need to make a living" sort of way. To come on to a site that is provided for free to the end-user and complain about the quality of yet another free offering? And on top of it claiming some kind of trade secret technique instead of sharing information despite having benefit from that in the past? And presumably the future? So only the best photographers with the best equipement should get free publicity? This seems more like a feeling of entitlement and indirect self-promotion rather than wanting to enhance the pedagogical functions that the site offers. I would hope that that kind of mentality would be selected against, despite the quality of the offerings, in future choice of POTD.

George Eric Stanley Curtis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a mineral site.
> If you want technically brilliant photographs, go
> to a photography site.
>

the site its free and all its free to say the personal opinion, fur sure you are not the boss to say to another: go to another forum to speack of this.

Mindat Page

[www.mindat.org]


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)

Matteo Chinellato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... example
> today nice pyrite, but background out of focus,
> ghosts on borders etc.... all problems its easy
> take off with a normaly photo program.

First off, I have always been highly impressed by Matteo's stunning photos of micro specimens.

<morning rant mode>

When I look at the photo in question - I'd rather call it the picture in question - I see an aesthetically pleasing pyrite group with interesting striations and realistic color. Background out of focus? Huh? To my eyes, (admittedly not optically perfect) it's a flat field of white with nothing to be in or out of focus. Ghosts on borders? By the time I blow it up enough to see this, the borders look jagged because of the low pixel count - it's only 465 X 428 pixels, fer chrissakes!

I guess I'm not sensitive and artistic enough to be offended by this terrible photo. ...and I can't see the emperor's new clothes, either.

</morning rant mode>

Real love is about sharing...

So, here I explain my photosetup -> [www.mineraltravel.com]
My pictures are by far not as good as the real Maestro's, but I stand on the shoulders of giants like Jean-Marc, Fred, Gerhard, Harjo and many others who helped me the last years. Thanks to them I can do what I do now, and learn a little more every day. Matteo, your pictures are among the best in the world, please do share your knowledge!

Cheers, Frank



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2011 11:28AM by Frank de Wit.