Ethical Crystal Mining

Alfredo's first response had the best conclusion, but if you must see a hole blasted just to get specimens, check out a picture of the Red Cloud.

Whoa Richard, OK, that's what I was looking for. And they did that specifically to mine for wulfenite?

Now hear again though, the Red Cloud mine was originally explored for silver and lead ore. That's how they discovered the other mineral pockets.

Phanie,

I am also not in favor of wholesale destruction of nature's beauty for no reason, as I am sure is the case for most reasonable folks. But as has already been mentioned, the cost/benefit analysis is something that differs from case to case and the perspective of the viewer as well. I wholly concur with Alfredo that any relative cause for concern from most mining efforts (especially mineral specimen mining) pales in comparison when you consider other activities.

I am curious, however, why you specifically mention blasting as a big concern? Blasting simply is breaking rock to move it. Why is that different from moving rock with a backhoe or some other method? It seems to me that the scale of the operation vs. the benefits to humanity should be much more of a concern than the method used to move the rock.

Best regards,
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

You bring up very good points. So here's the whole story.

I am simply trying to get the facts straight. You see, for years I've been defending mineral collecting against environmental activists (of which I consider myself to be one) & book authors, however I feel these environ. activists may be very misinformed since they often say we are collecting at the cost of "raping the planet", slavery, and blowing up and blasting away whole tracts of land to do so. I think they are confusing mineral collecting with mining for diamonds or conflict minerals/ore. To which I feel if there’s a problem there then let's get off our computer right now & throw our cell phone out b/c that’s what’s driving that economy: [youtu.be] I do try to choose a tech company that makes a conscious effort to minimize its use of conflict minerals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2012 09:48PM by phanie moon.

Phanie,

You've brought up a tough question overall. I think it's a credit to you that wanton destruction concerns you but also that you realize there is still a cost/benefit question in the equation. As with many things in life, I think there are shades of grey here.

Many of the mineral specimens we collect as wouldn't be possible without the initial ore mining operations, which expose these deposits, although the any follow-on mining for specimens will have minimal additional damage. And some of what is sold by dealers these days are specimens being recycled from old collections rather than recently-collected material. More than likely the recovery of these specimens caused a much greater degree of deforestation, etc. when they were collected than specimens from modern mines. I agree with Peter that (as with all products) it would be great to know that they came from a "fair trade" source. Certainly there are areas where there is a legitimate concern that your money ultimately financed drugs, terrorism, forced labor, or brutal regimes (blood diamonds, emeralds, etc.).

Modern mining companies in developed countries are typically forced to mitigate environmental damages. And recovery from older, more callous methods may happen more quickly than a lot of people realize. An interesting comparison is to look at the photographs in the coffee table book titled Colorado 1870 - 2000, which contrasts photographs of Colorado landscapes taken by W.H. Jackson in the late 1800's with photgraphs taken from the same viewpoints by photographer John Fielder just over a century later. What amazed me is how little evidence remains of some of the areas that were completely clearcut mountainsides in the original photographs.

Best regards,
Jonathan

"Also do you know of sites where copper derived specimens have been mined but straight copper has not from the same locale?" - Red Metal produces copper specimens from the Caledonia mine. It did produce copper commercially before shutting down. It was reopened for specimen production.

There probably aren't many mines that were set up to produce just specimen material (one wouldn't sink a 100 foot shaft on the hope of discovering specimen material). The mining of amethyst in Uruguay is sort of a regular mining operation [www.mineral-forum.com]
I also think that the Chihuahua geodes are mined underground,

Regarding the supposed contribution of mining to supporting bloody conflicts and child slavery in Africa, there's been a lot of bad press in recent years about "coltan" (tantalum-niobium ore) in the Congo. Then you got people feeling guilty about using cell phones, because that was a big consumer of tantalum, and there arose a movement to impose a heavy bureaucracy regulating international commerce in tantalum. But to put this into perspective, the Congo produces less than 1% of the world supply of tantalum, the majority of which comes from much more civilised countries, like Australia and Canada. And the tantalum operations in the Congo produce no specimen material, so it's of no relevance to mineral collectors.

Another example is the gemstone pegmatites of Afghanistan, which do produce material much beloved by mineral collectors. A few years ago, when terrorism and Al Qaeda were a daily news item, there were a couple of hot-headed mineral collectors proposing to boycott Afghan specimens because the proceeds from their sale supposedly helped fund terrorism - a boycott which would have been completely illogical and counterproductive! Luckily most collectors didn't pay any attention to this. Afghanistan is a very very poor country, with hardly any decent employment options for young men, who often join militias just because they get paid salaries by rich warlords and can feed their families that way. Common alternatives are to make heroin or become a smuggler. Mining for specimens is one of the few legitimate job opportunities available, so we should be doing everything possible to encourage it!

This was very informative and enlightening and I discovered that I was on the right track in my thinking. I feel that, for the most part, mineral collecting is not to be directly blamed for major destruction and raping of the planet. I have the confirmations from many people here (whom I greatly respect) that I need to go make my argument now.

Specimen mining may not have much of an impact on the environment, but commercial mining for ore is a different story. I believe the Bunker Hill Mine in Idaho turned out to be one of the largest Superfund Sites in the history of the United States.

[yosemite.epa.gov]

Neal, that's why I wanted to make a clear distinction between industrial ore mining (including conflict minerals) and mineral collecting.

Major destruction of Earth, i.e. California falling into the Pacific Ocean or the Nile Delta drying up, no. The largest commecial mines on this planet are mere scuff marks compared to what nature achieves. The "minor" effects of mineral collectors are of no consequence to me unless they are highly illegal and grossly imoral. I used to envy, lament or maline the results, luck and sucess of those who came before me, but as I grow old I'm letting go of what I cannnot control.

To me, an important aspect relating to the "ethics" mineral collecting is about not robbing your friends' pocket more than it is about the environmental damage someone can do with a pick, shovel and rock drill.

There was once a saying up here in Washington State.

"Tools in the Vug".

It supposedly layed claim to a pocket. It was not rare for the next collector to use those tools to collect the pocket.

Mineral collecting brings out the worst in the best people. Imagine what it inspires in the worst people.

Bart



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 12:17PM by Bart Cannon.

The fundamental problem is that the population of the earth is still increasing, and in an effort to provide resources to sustain them in as much comfort as can be managed, we cut down trees, farm the land, mine fish from the ocean, and dig holes in the ground for building materials or ore. The efforts of people who object to these activities should directed to reducing earth's populations rather than trying to treat the symptom instead of the disease.

The raping of the earth by man starts with using a pointed stick to make a small hole in the ground in order to plant a seed and grows from there with increasing population to leveling forests and the strip mining of coal and tar sands, which now in Canada, is I believe the largest earth moving operation in the world. Up to a hundred yeas ago, the amount of dirt and rock moved by erosion each year dwarfed the amount of earth that was moved by man. About 20? years ago, from what I recall having read somewhere, the amount of earth moved by man exceeded that being moved by nature, and that amount continues to grow year by year.

That being said, there are probably several hundred specimen mining operations, especially if you include the mining of gemstones, that produce open pit operations and dumps that are easily seen from satellite. As example look at some of the quartz crystal mines in Arkansas or Minas Gerais Brazil as only two examples. Though the mines at Santa Rosalia, Baja California Norte were developed for their copper. Pala Properties/ Ed Swaboda/Bill Larson put in a 300 foot incline strictly to produce specimens of Boleite. The amethyst mines of Rio Grande do Sul must have by this time put in several hundred kilometers of tunnels into the basalt to produce amethyst geodes, agates and some gem grade amethyst. Each year they produce three to four kilotons of amethyst specimens.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

Amen Bart...

Neal,

The "Silver Valley" of Idaho which includes the Bunker Hill Mine produced more silver and lead than any other mining district in our country.

The costs of the clean up have far exceeded the value of all metals produced. And the clean up bill grows by the day.

How are we doing ?

Bart

Phanie, just remember that you can't change the mind of a true believer.

A point-counterpoint long discussion with your activist friends will only release carbon dioxide into the environment......contributing
to global warming......violent storms in some parts of the world, drought in other areas, glaciers drying up, and rising sea levels.

Better to just sip some iced tea or nice wine and smile at your activist friends. They will eventually move on due to the lack of conflict. Then
you can enjoy your mineral specimens.

I know that I am straying from the central topic, but I will expand a bit upon my last post.

The "Silver Valley" is about 20 miles long and about 3 miles wide.

The mineralization is vein type and the multiple veins cross the valley at right angles.

Mother Nature has recklessly allowed the erosion and re-deposition of the lead / zinc / antimony / arsernic deposits of more of those metal bearing minerals than the mining companies. The mining companies are stridently devoted to keeping every speck of metal from going down the hill.

Their job is to recover every penny of metal.

One bit of nonsense is that the Bunker Hill Company had to remove the top 18 inches of topsoil from every home in Kellogg and replace it with lead free topsoil. Is that a good investment ? It would have been cheaper to just give every homeowner a million bucks and let them buy a house in a lead free location. Anywhere is more charming than Kellogg.

Here is the "Kicker". The children in New York City have higher blood lead concentrations than the kids in the Silver Valley.

Wouldn't it be smarter to take that Super Fund money and clean up NYC rather than to spend it on Kellogg ?

There are some old mining locations that should just be moved away from by the fearful.

I sure wish I could have bought one of the lovely homes near the old Everett Asarco smelter which became an arsenic rendering plant after the failure of the Monte Cristo gold mines. Spectacular views of Puget Sound. All of the neighborhood grew tomatoes. No reports of arsenic poisoning though I was able to easily extract perfectly formed arsenolite crystals from their lawns. Arsenolite being one of the effluents from the rendering plant.

The City of Everett used the arsenic rich slag to gravel the City's streets and then ten years ago sued Asarco for the hazard. Many of you know that Asarco went bankrupt, and Gruppo Mexico bought their liabilities. Some reward for providing the vital metals for the development of our country.

Bart

phanie:

Don't worry about certain environmental activists. Most of them (but not all! Some are brilliant) are worth ignoring because they hardly do any personal sacrifices to lower their demand for resources. I have seen some drive SUVs, wear make-up or perfume regularly, have tons of gadgets (other than computer, and maybe a small cell phone, it is luxury), replace their stuff regularly, buy way too much clothes, or have kids! Sorry but a real environmental activist should not have kids, since growing population (especially combined with affluence in fortunate countries) makes the largest impact. They should at least say "goodbye" to consumerism, buy used, new only when necessary and make sure they buy durable products - nothing with planned obsolescence. They should also tend a food garden. (I already do much of this, and working on more - and I don't consider myself an environmental activist).

The illogical environmental activists (as opposed to the respectable ones) get angry at mining while embracing the results.

Mineral collecting usually does little or no impact on the environment. Furthermore, it interests people in natural science - like you and me - who learn to care about our planet and appreciate its wonder. If the minerals are by-products of mining - why not take the time to appreciate them? They are being extracted anyway!

Too late Doc. Excess CO₂ has already been expelled.

Well said Phil. I too have no kids, grow what food I can in my modest garden, etc. etc. I have come across the accusation that we collectors, gold panners, rockhounds etc. are causing damage, but it is all baloney. This nonsense was used recently as a pretext to ban gold panning in Wales, but recent floods there swept away trees and bridges in the same river courses! This was discussed at length in this forum some time ago (http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,15,211396,page=1). Ah, but that's natural, so it's OK then, the anti-panners might say. So a natural flood that churns up the entire river from source to estuary, and all the tributaries too, is fine. But a gold panner's hole a few metres across is "damaging". I have had it personally from petty-minded little Hitlers when out collecting. One time I pulled a rock out leaving a hole about 20 cm deep in the side of a small, old opencast, and I got asked by the group leader, "Must you tear the hillside apart?" I will never go on a trip led by that jerk again. On another occasion I was berated by a hill walker after I knocked from an outcrop barely enough rock to half fill a shoebox and I found myself accused by this puffed-up, self-appointed, vigilante guardian of the countryside of "Defacing the rock that God put there". I asked him, "Which one, Allah?" He didn't take that well. He continued to berate me, but I stood my ground, telling him I had checked with the relevant authority and been told there was no law against it (true), I was not going to stop (true), and what was he going to do about it? Eventually he went away in a huff, muttering something. I wish I'd had the wit to shout after him that I was going to come back and do some more the next day - on the Sabbath. But it's usually the case that one doesn't think of the best ripostes until too late. The "damaging the landscape" argument was also used in the Lake District as one of the excuses to ban collecting there. So, in a landscape already marred by acres of mine tips and opencasts, a few little holes in those tips was supposed to damage the landscape, It would be laughable if it was not so serious in that it was used to take our freedoms from us. It was episodes like these that inspired me to write my article "Defending the freedom to collect minerals" on this website. I hope Phanie reads it - it can be found on the home page, under "Mindat News".