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Field CollectingEssential Equipment and Tools needed for Collecting

5th Apr 2014 20:04 UTCturtledove thrushe

I am currently in possession of a nice backpack and several field guides and some boxes/thumbnail cases to store the rocks and minerals but I am wondering where can I obtain a list of tools and equipment that is essential for collecting. Also does Canadian Tire or Homehardware/Homedepot sell any good chisels or hammer for obtaining mineral samples ?

6th Apr 2014 05:58 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Ordo,

There should be a few threads on here devoted to proper tools to field collect, although what you plan to collect will ultimately determine what type of tools you'll need and the amount you'll need to spend.

One place I can recommend for tools is a place called Ben Meadows out of Janesville, Wisconsin. They are great folks and have always treated their customers right for many years. Even though some will disagree, I've always used Estwing tools as they have never failed me in the field!

6th Apr 2014 07:08 UTCRock Currier Expert

If you are planning to collect underground, a somewhat different set of equipment will be needed than if you want to collect on dumps and quarries or outcrops.

6th Apr 2014 09:01 UTCsteven garza

Dear Ordo (& others);

I send all my prospective trippees & inquiring beginners, a letter I call the "links letter", which, in addition to having reviews of various useful collectors sites, the answer to my "puzzle pic letter" (2 of 5 letters I have on hand, which I call my "beginners' series"), &, most importantly, an essentials list, which has the most important tools & stuff, you can carry, on the field; this list saves $, space, & weight, as well as having safety in mind. Some people, here, do carry other items, &, may, for one reason or another, prefer substitute items, but, most of what they carry, when they trip with me, they SOON dump/leave behind, as I show them why those tools are inferior/near useless, in comparison to the tools/equipment I've listed. Nothing I say changes minds, faster, than seeing an 8 YO beginner work faster & getting better results, than the "advanced collector", in the same rock & conditions; more than one time, I've had to divert a trip, JUST to stop at a hardware store, so they can get a tool I've listed, to continue the trip!

I'm including that excerpted list from the "links letter"; if anyone has any questions/suggestions, please post & I'll answer on this topic.

Here's the tools & paraphernalia, the required in red & the suggested in black; forgetting or ignoring any of the required will be it's own punishment & handicap you to the point that it'll make helping you near impossible. I'm SURE you're going to have Q's about some of the things listed or the reason for certain types; continue to remember: the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask when you had the chance. Here goes:

TOOLS

Estwing 22 oz. masons hammer

2 1/2 or 3 lb. hand sledge (short handle) * 4 lb. is WAY too big & so unbalanced it will hurt your wrist LONG before day is finished!!!!

foot long chisel * nothing else needed! you'll see.

5' pry bar * NOT a crowbar!

wood wedge *try to find a older soft steel one

PARAFFIN ALIEN

boxes, UNbroken down!

knapsack w/frame

newspaper *NOT the colored ad sections

FULL sized Bounty, Brawny, or Oasis papertowels

notepad & pen(cil)

insect repellent

Pough's FIELDGUIDE TO ROCKS & MINERALS (older version is best)

safety glasses

buckets

tool belt

hand lens

water bottle(s)

nibbles

2 velcro-type ace wraps

gloves

Again, I expect some people to disagree or wonder why an X tool/equipment, or, why NOT an X tool/equipment; I'll answer all question, especially those of experienced collectors, who, once I explain how certain collecting circumstances make their preferred tools/equipment obstructive/impossible, during typical collecting situations. Also, bear in mind that this is just an ESSENTIALS list; all other tool, including the ones I've listed in black, are for specialized collecting & "specialized" means it's not the normal conditions/material you are after. Expect surprises, as my answers!

Hoping this helps;

your friend, Steve

6th Apr 2014 11:53 UTCBob Harman

A HARD HAT is mandatory if you plan to collect anywhere close to quarry or road cut high walls!!!!!!!. CHEERS……BOB

6th Apr 2014 14:10 UTCGary Moldovany

Here in the US, Home Depot has a good selection of hammers and chisels for the collector. I suggest you also get a mason's hammer unless you are able to buy a good pick hammer elsewhere. I strongly suggest that you purchase Estwing products. They are all steel and last forever. I also bring a shovel, whisk broom, knee pads and a long-handled screwdriver. A small first-aid kit may also be useful.

6th Apr 2014 14:47 UTCAnonymous User

Essential tools/equipment depends heavily on the what/where you intend to field collect. If I plan to cover lots of ground in rough country I will want to travel as light as possible, and what I will carry is much different than if I plan to work a prospect pit in a fixed location.

If I am surface prospecting for small crystals I would most likely only carry in addition to what you see in this picture a small chisel, pair of leather gloves and sunglasses with impact resistant lenses that can double as safety glasses. I am a big fan of the gem scoop as it works great as a light weight digging tool, allows me to reach into tight spots more safely than I could without, and doubles as a great walking stick. I have dug/filled yards of material from many holes with the 5 of them I have gone through over the last 20 years.
http://www.pbase.com/bjorn_b/image/3460219/original.jpg

The number one recommendation I would make to anyone starting out field collecting, if you think you will spend anytime at all in rough country, is to get as good a pair of boots that you can afford. Your feet will thank you. Also if you plan to wander very far in the field don't leave home without a good map/compass, or these days a portable GPS with extra batteries, to get you back home. In my younger days I did my best to get myself lost on more than one occasion, even with a good topo map in my pack and a Brunton on my belt, and knowing how to use them.

I recommend Kingsley North as a reliable source for basic collecting tools over Home Depot

6th Apr 2014 17:01 UTCsteven garza

Dear Bob;

Although a hardhat is required, to collect in any quarry, no state (if they allow collecting roadcuts, in the 1st place; CT comes to mind, in that case) requires hardhats for collection purposes. If you wish to do so, that's great, but, none of my trippees (over 20K) or myself, have rarely needed such. I don't get hit in the head & have to go to the hospital; I watch where I'm working, know where my rock will hit on the wall & where it can go to. As David points out (& I did), the circumstance can dictate what to bring; HOWEVER, the tools I have in red, wiill always come on my trips, which is why they are on my "required" part of my list, which is what Ordo was asking. The gem scoop you have pictured, is useless, at most raw localities I prospect; although it IS useful, in some mine dumps/streams, in other instances, its just a space & weight burden. I'd rather carry extra rock, instead of the space that tool takes up. &, although most collectors have (& nearly ALL books/guides suggest it) a geologists pick/pick hammer/rockhound hammer, as all my trippees will testify to (including some initially diehard advanced collectors), the masons hammer will spank butt. I show people how that tool is 6 - in - one tools, saving much money, incredible amounts of space, & much less weight. Many of my sites are excellent $ producers & are quite a hike to reach, so, I better bring ONLY what I MUST have. As Ordo is a beginner, and, isn't likely to be able to collect in a quarry (if he hasn't joined a club, yet; he's asking, which means he probably doesn't - a club member would have given him some idea, already), he'll be freeroaming like crazy, just exercising his curiousity. The reason I don't suggest a rock/pick hammer, is the masons does all that hammer can do, better, faster, & has more uses beside what the geohammer does. You need a solid steel hammer (all one piece; handle & all) bcs wooden handle will shatter, after a few hard hits when being used as a safety chisel) & one with a pipe handle will bend/destroy itself when you use it as a prybar. It's a :

1) small/sharp force hammer

2) precision safety chisel

3) a 3 ft. prybar (no, it's not 3 ft. long, but, used correctly, it's effort can be multiplied, by torquing, instead of simple pulling, which is all a geopick can do; nothing is more impressive than having a child, one-handed, pull a 500 lb. block out of a wall, using this tool, correctly. this happens, frequently)

4) a grubhoe/maddox (bcs a geopick has only a point, it's not very good at this; it can break up soil/scree, but, can't move very much, per sweep. A masons dams material in front of it, almost immediately, producing a wider removal swath than the actual blade/chisel end)

5) hatchet - although this is mostly for use during camping trips, I do often spend more than just one day, at harder to reach, better producing spots. Most of my summer vacations in New England, consisted of me bicycling to mines in ME & NH, spending several days collecting & camping in them, so, this was a necessary use for me; making big branches into smaller feed insured plenty of fuel with less time searching for the "right size" stuff.

6) axe - tree roots are a bane, to most dump diggers; but, to me, they're "time capsuled treasure chests". A healthy tree, in a dump pile, means the material in it's roots, has been undisturbed, since the day the seed dropped there (that can be over 100 yrs!); it also means that material from that mine's "heyday" is likely still there. Without much effort, I can be through a 4" diameter root in under 5 min., opening the door it this natural vault.

When you add the cheapest fleamarket prices of all these tools, versus the $28 of this tool, you come out ahead, on that point, alone, but, the real savings is in the weight & space areas; the 200 - 300 lbs I'm carrying on my back, on the way out of a location, is, except for 2 - 3 tools, all specimen weight - not tools & specimen weight! The other difference, between the Estwing masons' & the Estwing geopick, is the metal: the geopick is a good med-range stainless that's case hardened; the masons is self-hardening chrome-vanadium steel, which is harder, &, self-hardening under the heat of normal chisel end regrinding, which if the hammer is used correctly, will never be needed. Sharpen a geopick a few times, & you now have a silly putty point, that dulls just looking at it, on the field; sharpen the chisel end on the masons', &, it'll be as hard / durable (without special treatment) as the original edge! I have one hammer, that's over 30 YO, & it's only been sharpened 4 times (always bcs I lent it out to an inexperienced to advanced collector during a collecting trip); I show trippees the correct methods of use & they all have similar results (some have NEVER sharpened their chisel ends), so, it's not a "fluke".

If you have any questions, ask!

Your friend, Steve

There are 2 things, I DO want to warn you about:

1) NEVER strike the hammer head, as I suggest, using a same sized/smaller headed hammer; THAT is when the head will spauld, sending metal slivers anywhichway! They will travel VERY fast & embed themselves quite deeply, if given the chance; if you use the hand sledge, as I suggest, this has NEVER happened, if struck squarely, no matter how much force is used.

2) DON'T buy, as I previously suggested, a Lowes Chinese knockoff version, as their steel is more brittle (different comp? different casting method?) & has cracked & even SPLIT IN HALF, during usage! The glue they use, for attaching the rubber handle, also releases, within 2 yrs of usage; these reasons are probably why they don't guarrantee them.

I've been collecting/prospecting/teaching with these 2 tools, for 40 of my 55+ yrs of collecting experience; I go nowhere witout these, at least.

6th Apr 2014 17:13 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

I've found bandaids useful.:-(

6th Apr 2014 20:28 UTCAnonymous User

Steve, some of the particular circumstances that have made me a fan of the gem scoop for many hundreds of field trips and over 20 years now include turning over and searching through loose rocks on steep talus slopes like the one pictured, and then trying to trace back to the source any float that I find. I almost always surprise myself with something when I am covering prospective ground, like these two etched aquamarines found on 6/24/02, on the same date and same mountainside as my earlier photo. I have never found it a burden to carry along even on days where I have climbed 6,000+ vertical feet and back down again. I am certain it has helped prevent me from taking a couple of nasty spills on steep 30 degree plus slopes, and is an excellent extra balancing hand when crossing talus fields with good size boulders.
http://www.pbase.com/bjorn_b/image/17425497/original.jpg

Now I will agree it is not very useful as a hard rock mining tool. Then for myself I prefer an Estwing 2lb sledge with the Estwing Gad/Pry bar over the largest Estwing paleo pick, which I also have. Even then I prefer the gem scoop over a pack shovel to fill buckets with loose material from the bottom of a pit, and find it useful to drag 100lb boulders out of the way. Anyway that is how I have found one at least a little useful.

6th Apr 2014 23:38 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

extra socks, and/or comfy shoes once you get out of the bush

7th Apr 2014 00:06 UTCturtledove thrushe

I'm looking at Estwing's geological section and I cannot seem to choose which one to purchase. Is there any differences between a long-handle , pointed tip and square head rock pick ?

Is it also recommended to purchase a crack/chipping hammer and a geo/paleo pick ?

I'm located in Canada so I am looking for distributors in Canada for Estwing. I remembered this name from the early days of my rock and mineral collecting and I am glad to see it mentioned.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

7th Apr 2014 00:31 UTCPhil M. Belley Expert

Where are you in Canada? Some Estwing geology products are carried in Bancroft and Ottawa. A lot of gear is available at the PDAC conference in Toronto each March. Otherwise, online (geology/prospecting supply stores or other) is a good avenue.

As for my suggestions:

-Good steel toed boots

-Safety goggles, never glasses.

7th Apr 2014 00:58 UTCturtledove thrushe

I have seen some Estwing equipment on Amazon.ca but I am wondering if there is any other websites or online stores that carry Estwing ?

7th Apr 2014 01:03 UTCGary Moldovany

I would say to get the normal sized rock pick hammer with the pointed tip and square head. You will use this for trimming specimens as well as chipping/picking. The other necessary item is the 3 or 4 pound chipping(sometimes called drilling) hammer, get the regular sized handle. As your collecting experience increases, you may decide to purchase additional specialized tools. A flat head chisel as well as a long 1/2" chisel will be the 2 you will use the most. Stay away from the chisels with the large plastic handle guard, they are useless and annoying, in my opinion. I also do not like the chisels with a plastic cap on top. I also find the gad (pointed) chisel very useful for splitting cracks and breaking boulders. At some point you may need a sledgehammer, 8 pound is good enough unless you are a bodybuilder.

7th Apr 2014 01:12 UTCturtledove thrushe

Thanks for the suggestion Gary. How is the durability on the Estwing Geological picks and hammers ?

I used to use before simply a Mastercraft Hammer and a German forged wooden handled Sledgehammer (Quite heavy too and the handle eventually broke).

In terms of Field guides and books I am looking at purchasing the "Handbook of Rocks, Minerals, and Gemstones" (by Walter Schumann Dr. (Author), R. Bradshaw (Translator)) and was wondering whether that is a good companion for a field guide. I have several other field guides including the Audobon , Peterson , and finally the Simon & Schuster's Guide to Rocks & Minerals which are classics from when I first started out.

7th Apr 2014 01:47 UTCAnonymous User

The Estwing tools are considered top of the line geological tools in North America. I still have and use the original Estwing pick I purchased back in 1980. I have worn out a couple of the large paleo picks though. The problem with the old model of these is that they are made from two pieces and eventually come apart.

7th Apr 2014 08:04 UTCDale Foster Manager

As with all things your local circumstances will dictate what is needed for collecting.

From my personal circumstances for collecting here in Cornwall ,where the bulk of what I do is from old mine dumps, with some from beaches as well, the following is what I carry:

Ex-army rucksack - not sure of the volume, but sufficient to hold tools and enough specimens that if full makes it bearable to return to the vehicle.

Three hammers:

1. Estwing rock pick - 20 years old and going strong although the pick end is somewhat shorter now. Used for prying, trimming small pieces and as a climbing aid when on steep slopes.

2. Estwing crack hammer - 2lb short handle - does most breaking on smaller pieces and light chisel work.

3. Estwing crack hammer - 4lb long handle - used for larger rock breaking. The weight of the tool reduces the effort required to break larger material.

Two chisels - one 12 " cold chisel, one shorter flat section splitting chisel - this latter is one of my best investments and is brilliant for splitting material how you want it to go.

Set of safety glasses, hand lens (old eye piece from a broken rifle scope - way better field of view than normal folding lens), roll of kitchen towel.

As most of the sites I visit are within short distances of parking I don't tend to carry much else as it can be retrieved from the vehicle if needed. If heavier artillery is needed then there is a 14lb sledge in the vehicle - body building not required to use well, rather let the tool do the work rather than flogging your guts out with a lighter tool.

A pan is also in the vehicle along with sample containers if there is likelihood of going after tin bearing sands or stream alluvials. Collecting from quarry faces or underground is extremely rare, but if that is planned then appropriate equipment is brought accordingly.

If the site is a bit further from the vehicle then a bottle of water and a snack might get shoved into a side pocket on the rucksack, but that is a pretty rare requirement.

29th Apr 2014 14:09 UTCturtledove thrushe

I am actually in the midst of composing a list of equipment required and I have noticed it amounts to quite a few gear which would require some expenditure. Is there any equipment that is not required or is more optional. I can't really see a metal detector being useful for Bancroft unless I visit Cobalt or a Copper area. While I understand safety is important but what can be excluded from the list for being absolutely optional.

19th May 2014 20:17 UTCVitya

I'm finalizing my equipment list but I need advice on whether to purchase a 2lb/3lb or 4lb Estwing Crack Hammer. I've also decided to go with the E6-24PC versus the E3-22P. I was wondering whether anyone had any experience with the newer model versus the older one. Thanks for the help and suggestions.

19th May 2014 22:05 UTCWayne Corwin

Vitya

I recomend the long handle Estwing # E3-23LP rock pick, the long handle means you don't have to bend over as far when using the hammer to turn over rocks and it can deliver a stronger blow to a rock because the longer handle puts more momentum to the head.

About the crack hammer, I prefer the 4 lb. hammer, theres only 1 lb. diffrence in weight but it makes a big diffrence in hitting power.

Unless your not a strong person, 1 lb. is not that much diffrence to carry.

Always use the biggest tools you can, let the tools do the work for you, example: you can hit a boulder 40 to 50 times with a 10 lb. sledge,, or,,

you can hit it once with a 20 lb. sledge and crack it in 1/2,, (and the 10 lb. sledge may still not crack the boulder in 1/2) ;-)

One big trick to cracking any rock is to keep the spot your hitting Clean, no little pieces of rock, not even dirt or dust, it absorbs a lot of the force.

A small brush is always good to bring.

Always ware Safety Glasses !

Always keep your chisles sharp (it's easyer to drive a sharp chisle into the rock) !

And VERRY IMPORTANT >>> KEEP MUSHROOMS GROUND OFF THE TOP OF THE CHISLE's ! ! ! (tu)

Good Luck , Be SAFE

Keep On Rockin'

Wayne

19th May 2014 22:57 UTCVitya

After reading some of the earlier posts they mention that a 4lb sledge might be simply too tiring or fatiguing. If that is the case I would like to know whether I should go with the 3lb or the 2lb. I do not wish to spend money on extra or additional crack hammers so I need a crack hammer that is sufficient force for 99% of the rocks to crack. Also what is the proper procedure for safely using a crack hammer with an estwing rock chisel.

Also is there a big difference between a masons hammer and a geological hammer. I would assume that the geological rock pick hammer is more hardened and durable for geologists whereas a masons hammer is for light masonry such as brick.

20th May 2014 01:58 UTCJohn Kirtz

Vitya, Your tool collection may depend on what you can afford and your size. If you and afford it, buy new Estwing or like quality. I took a broken hammer to a dealer and they replaced it for free. The Estwings I have now are quite old(they do not break often), but I assume they still offer the same guarantee. I have tools found at swap meets, garage sales and hardware stores too. If you can swing a 12 lb. sledge get one. If you will be hard rock mining they are very useful and can do things a 4 pounder simply cannot. A large(5 ft.) heavy pry bar has similar advantages. Last week in the Inyo Mountains of California I found myself struggling to lift a slab of granite with a medium pry bar. The extra length and weight of the big bar popped the slab right out. As others have suggested, the further a dig site is from our truck, the more selective we are about what goes into our packs and buckets. After 35 years of field collecting I still tend to carry to many tools. Last week I struggled with my big bar half a mile up a very steep slope to a large outcrop of quartz to no avail, but there have been plenty of times that the effort was worth it. As mentioned, put a lot of thought into safety. Consider where you dig and what is reasonable and safe to attempt. Have fun and take pictures!

20th May 2014 03:28 UTCDoug Daniels

What most have missed here is the need for a good set of eyes, and (hopefully) some knowledge about the area your are searching. Of course, with that good set of eyes is the need for protection. As for the second need, yes, you can be lucky just wandering anywhere, but why waste your time (which most collectors have too little of).?

20th May 2014 06:28 UTCDale Foster Manager

Vitya Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

After reading some of the earlier posts they mention that a 4lb sledge might be simply too tiring or fatiguing.

This I would say is a double edged sword. Carrying the hammer might be slightly more labour intensive, but being 'undergunned' when trying to break large or tough rocks is a damned sight more knackering and just plain annoying.

Since I have added a 4lb long handled Estwing to my arsenal life is much easier for larger breaking. The 2lb hammer is still useful for smaller work and chisel. Unfortunately I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' solution the tools work better if tailored to a job.

20th May 2014 08:54 UTCJohn Oostenryk

Hello Vitya,

I just came across this thread and am compelled to share a couple opinions on hammers and chisels.

Before we get to the nitty gritty of WHICH tools to get...

HOW MUCH hammering have you done in past? This is ALL ABOUT experience resulting in control of your tools. Hitting the rock is easy! Hitting the rock so it breaks the way you need it to and hitting the chisel effectively (not your hand) takes time and experience.

Hitting yourself ends the day pretty fast.

I do not mean this discouragingly AT ALL. I know a couple folks who still just do not have good control of their chisel(but they only go out about once a year?)

There was a boy(maybe 10) next to me at last weekend's quarry who was newer to collecting, and he was doing quite well with respect to his handling and effectiveness. I found that encouraging:)

Thus for chisel I highly recommend the DASCO brand chisels with yellow strike guard. I LOVE these- do NOT buy the knockoff ones- they are trash. Save your fingers and wrist and check those out. Go with .75" and 1.25" tip.

.75" is better suited to chiseling material.

I use the 1.25 to force open existing/created cracks.

I don't care much for the Estwing chisels due to length- but that is due to my collecting localities and materials- others like them for utility in their area...
SKIP the masonry chisels with wide tips- USELESS unless you are splitting layered sedimentary for fossils- maybe.

Steve Garza is talking about the Estwing masonry hammer to use for a safety chisel(similar concept -protect hand) and it's added utility as a lever/prybar. As he stated- the flat chisel tip is different material that the pointy geohammer. His ideas on using the masonry hammer have merit- and being lighter than "crack hammer" will give control when using with a chisel of any size.

The Geohammers-with pointy tip- are really too light to effectively hammer specimens. they are intended for securing samples (bits/pieces) in the field for lab analysis~ Far better than any carpentry tool, but not my favorite either. They are excellent for digging in scree/or for up close picking like for thunder eggs and geodes or pyrite in shale... after moving bulk material with a larger pick...

I Love my 3lb ESTWING crack hammer-I have at least 6 other brands- those are ones I loan out(and feel bad doing it cause I love the Estwing- but as loaner is better than lame carpentry hammer)

2 lb is too light...and 4lb is awkward beast(short handle). 3lb is where it is at.

For heavier chisel action(see Dasco!) 3 lb!

For cobbing down med rocks- 3 lb(As Steve says- 4 lb SUX bad)

Now the 4 lb with long handle- is not gonna be used for chisels. Personally - if the 3lb is too little to get traction on a big rock- get to the sledgehammer. As you know...

NO matter what weight with Sledgehammer-- fiberglass handle. FORGET wood handles-yes they are cheaper-and you will be soon buying replacements- and your collecting is quite over when broken- having to leave and return is expense ALL its own so don't bother.

The thing to consider here is your strength vs control of the tool, AND what you are after. Breaking down big rocks to get at the hidden minerals and retrieving the exposed xtls. I have not been to Bancroft but am a tiny bit familiar with the igneous/metamorphic material up that way.

The large, dense hard stuff is going to require some sledgehammer action.

I would say at minimum-take an 8lb

If you(or a collecting partner) can swing it- 12lb is great. I personally have finally broke down and bought a 16lb. yes it is heavy to lug around but it moves some material that I would wear myself out trying to crack with the 12...

BIGGER is better when it comes to cracking material open/breaking it down!

-as to other tools.

A) I carry a very small ball peen hammer with a shortened handle to do cobbing on most pieces. The small size allows me to really whip it creating a small (flat end!) area of effect(removing excess stone) with out th eBIG shockwave that is ALSO rocking through the xtls you want whole. those lil edge snaps chew the thing right down, without repeated shocks thru fragile (and typically already fractured) specimens. (due to quarry blasts, freeze thaw or past tectonics). This is a newer addition and I LOVE it.

B) Duct tape- to use to secure specimen in place(prefractured)and to protect from flying debris during extract. Cover over vug for same reason.

I use a concrete saw and use it to cover pening to exclude dust too.

consider covering fragile stuff with a bit of tissue so tape doesn't stick to xtl!

Field expedient bandage! Secure wrapped storage to protect specimens.

C) Plenty of material to separate specimens and protect during return. I like to bring some nested containers and ziplocks for extra small or fragile retrieves(or pieces to reassemble.)

D) Small LED flashlight to look inside vugs- be sure there is something good in there to take- and know if something extra delicate needs protection? I have used wet tissue to best mold/fill before to lessen vibration from hammering.

20th May 2014 18:02 UTCVitya

I believe I mentioned it before in this topic but this collecting will be primarily for Bancroft (Hastings Co.) area. I've chosen to go with the 3lb crack hammer instead of either the 2lb or the 4lb as I will also have a 24oz rock pick/hammer from Estwing complementing it.

John Oostenryk thanks for your suggestion for the led flashlight. That will come in handy. I have ordered one as I recall seeing how cavities can often be small and can be hard to see inside without proper illumination. I've also ordered some long screwdrivers for prying/chipping in those deep cavities.

Aside from frame backpack's are Army or Military surplus backpack's worth considering. I am looking at possibly some MOLLE Army Surplus backpack's and was wondering whether they would be durable enough for the role. I understand frame has an advantage in that it shifts the weight to the knees and not the back. In addition should I consider a camelback/camelpack for hydration ?

21st May 2014 00:33 UTCJohn Kirtz

Vitya, Sounds like you are on your way to a great collection of tools and crystals! Two suggestions I like a lot are, get a long chisel, and taking time to protect crystals in situ with padding and tape. As for back packs, consider a frameless day pack, the type sold for school. Some are very well made and have several useful compartments. I have customized mine with extra shoulder strap padding. A box made of strong cardboard or a plastic equivalent(used for signs tec.)inserted into the main compartment acts like a rigid frame and keeps tools and rock from wearing through the fabric. For extra comfort I slide a gardening knee pad between the box and back panel. That knee pad is very nice when kneeling on rock for hours! Even with my tools and lunch these pack have plenty of room for canteens or bottled water.

21st May 2014 03:56 UTCBarry Miller

I was going to suggest to bring water but I just noticed that John mentioned it.

21st May 2014 09:23 UTCRock Currier Expert

If you are going to be working in the open like on a dump or on a blast pile in a quarry you might find that a long handled crack hammer will be ok. If you are going to be working in tight areas, like in a pocket or under ground, you may find that the short handled crack hammer is better. It was always a 4 pound short handled crack hammer that I preferred. \

21st May 2014 14:29 UTCVitya

I think a 4lb crack hammer is simply too much weight so I chose a 3lb short handled Estwing crack hammer instead. Besides if i need a heavier or lighter one I can always order another one. Even John Betts recommends a 3lb/4lb and some other suggestions in tbis thread also suggested a 2 1/2

or a 3lb crack hammer.

So I have ordered the Estwing rock pick, Estwing chisels and the 3lb crack hammer. I still have some additional safety equipment to order (looking at Military surplus safety goggles) and some additional clothing against the heat and humidity that we are known for in the summer.

Knee pads and elbow pads have also been ordered before just waiting on the tools and safety equipment and additional clothing.

Speaking of which how essential is a CDV-700 Geiger counter for collecting radioactive minerals in Bancroft. It is somewhat expensive even for an older mil spec model and modernized versions sell for upwards of $300. Iwas looking primarily at the Lionel version and it does have less batteries instead of the 4 normally seen in the Victoreen models.

21st May 2014 18:39 UTCDennis McCoy

I have been enjoying this thread immensely. (Thanks Vitya!)

As a "newby", who lives where there is no rock, I have limited my collecting to purchases heretofore. I anticipate some trips of my own this summer and have been planning my collecting kit, largely influenced by the previous suggestions.

This is what I have so far; all purchased at estate sales except for the new Estwing masonry hammer and the pry bar, which I already had. (Less than $40 for the lot.)

Also planned: shovel(s) and pick axe in the truck; wide brimmed hat and my iPhone with 10x magnifier lens for field magnification and safety.

21st May 2014 21:10 UTCGeorge Creighton

Most important is the toilet roll.

To pack delicate specimens in, stem cut bleeding and always handy for it`s original purpose:-D

21st May 2014 21:13 UTCVitya

Thanks Dennis I am glad you found some of these suggestions helpful. If i may also recommend the following:

Safety goggles not glasses (due to materials and safety differences)

Boonie Hat

I am also in the process of acquiring the Boonie Hat. The rock pick, chisels, and crack hammer/pry bar I had to order from the USA since in Canada there are very few locations that sell it and if they do either charge a premium or out of stock. Other Estwing equipment is more readily available but not the Geological equipment here.

For the Boonie Hat i am looking at army surplus equipment and i am using an existing fishing boonie hat as a benchmark for measurements.

21st May 2014 23:26 UTCJohn Kirtz

Vitya, Over the years I've developed an extensive collection of hats in search of the "fit". For a long time now I have traveled with both a hardhat and a wide brimmed straw hat. When it's hot a wet do- rag with either one cools and shade ears and neck. Another habit of mine is wearing a long sleeve shirt, even in summer heat. This seems to cool and reduce dehydration as it holds moisture against the arms. I end up with less cuts and it makes clean up at days end easier too. All leaving more time to dig, eat, brew tea and take pictures of the sunset!

22nd May 2014 13:21 UTCVitya

Interestingly enough i just checked and it seems home hardware carriers the E3-22P Rock Pick. I might also fo there and pick that up to complement the E6-24PC i have ordered.

22nd May 2014 13:22 UTCVitya

Interestingly enough i just checked and it seems home hardware carriers the E3-22P Rock Pick. I might also go there and pick that up to complement the E6-24PC i have ordered.

22nd May 2014 23:36 UTCEd Clopton 🌟 Expert

An egg carton is handy for keeping small pieces under control. An excellent packing material for small, delicate pieces is wads of thin plastic such as drycleaner or grocery store produce bags. Cotton should be avoided at all costs, since it contaminates specimens with fibers that are the dickens to eliminate. Consider wrapping big pieces, even if not fragile themselves, for the protection of more delicate pieces around them.

I concur with everyone else's recommendation of Estwing hammers: well-designed, well-balanced, and indestructible. I lived near Rockford, Illinois for a few years and drove past the Estwing plant frequently. A decorative plastic layer of the laminated leather handle (which I much prefer over the molded plastic handle--better shock absorption) of my first hammer had broken out and loosened up the rest of the layers, so on my way by one day I stopped in and asked whether it could be repaired. The woman at the reception desk disappeared with it and returned a few minutes later with a brand-new hammer! That was almost 30 years ago, and that second hammer is still going strong.

A pointer on technique: don't strike with the pick end of the hammer. It will dull the point prematurely, and you risk breaking it and sending shrapnel flying. Use a chisel if you need to concentrate force in one tiny spot. And a tiny 3/8" cold chisel is not heavy and is handy for small spots where a big one just won't fit.

23rd May 2014 18:18 UTCVitya

I just checked with Home Hardware today. They carry both the Rock Pick and the Masons Hammer from Estwing (E3-22P and E6-22BLC). I will have to special order them but I think these two in addition to the 3lb Crack Hammer and the E6-24PC will make up the main components of my tools and equipment.

Personally though I don't mind paying the price requested for these Estwing tools as it is a reputable manufacturer that does 'made in USA'. I looked earlier at Stanley tools but their made in China and only a very few select tools and equipment is 'made in USA'.

For anyone who is interested Home Hardware quoted me as about $49 CAD for the E3-22P and $37 CAD for either of those tools.

24th May 2014 15:16 UTCJacob Helton

I've found that for breaking really big/tough rocks and general digging that a large (maybe 20lbs?) rock bar does wonders. The best ones are probably the double-sided type, with the spike on one end and the blade on the other. Dunno where you'd buy one though, mine came from my grandfather's old kit of tools. . .

24th May 2014 17:43 UTCSusan Robinson

I suggest a small ice pick, for extracting crystals form narrow pockets, and a hardened plastic pocket "extractor" tool, so that delicate crystals will not be bruised with metal tools.

A good map, and a knowledge of property boundaries are both necessary. You don't want to enrage property owners if you didn't first obtain their permission to be on their land.

24th May 2014 20:06 UTCturtledove thrushe

So I have placed the order for the B3-4lb Crack hammer as well. I think it will serve and come in handy just in case I find that the 3lb doesn't have enough power or force.

I believe in my opinion that it is unnecessary to crack a sledgehammer beyond 4lb. During my previous collecting years I had a nice German manufactured sledgehammer that was about 3-4lbs and I felt It was sufficient. I used it in various collecting localities from Niagara Falls to Bancroft to Sudbury/Parry Sound.

I am still missing some equipment from my list such as a Boonie Hat , Military Safety/Protective Goggles and finally the 22oz E3-22P from Estwing. Once those are obtained I should have the essentials checked off on my list. Could also add a folding shovel to the list for Bear Lake Diggings in Bancroft.

7th Jun 2014 16:12 UTCturtledove thrushe

Just wondering whether any kind of small scratches on dents below the hammer will affect the structural integrity of my Estwing B3-3lb Crack hammer. I had asked this before but I was told not to worry about it.

Here are the pictures of the B3-3lb crack hammer (my B3-4lb didn't have these kind of marks):

http://i.imgur.com/0Hmd2Ix.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dOLoEEl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Hzworsg.jpg

7th Jun 2014 19:09 UTCWayne Corwin

Vitya

LOL,,,, It will be ALL scratches before your done, if your working hard, don't worry about them :-D

7th Jun 2014 19:33 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Agreed!

If they're not scratched up after your trip, you're weren't working hard enough! :-D

7th Jun 2014 23:40 UTCturtledove thrushe

Thanks for the reassurance Paul and Wayne. I'll hopefully make it look more like https://www.flickr.com/photos/actionatadistance/4423348951/in/photostream/) once I had several visits to Bancroft with the equipment. The majority of equipment has already been obtained and arrived. I am still missing an ILBE Backpack and Geiger counter but that will be for later this month. However the most essential equipment has already been obtained.

26th Jun 2014 18:34 UTCVitya

Paul Brandes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agreed!

> If they're not scratched up after your trip,

> you're weren't working hard enough! :-D

After the Bancroft trip on June 22nd it seems that they were pretty used and scratched up once I was done with them. This was particularly visible at the Faraday Hill Roadcut with the tough calcite and host rock. I ended up using the 3lb and the 4lb Crack hammer with/without chisels more than my 24oz Rock Pick. The tools were very reliable and I had an excellent grip on them even using Cattlehide gloves (leather). I don't regret investing the money in Estwing chisels/hammers plus their warranty is excellent and they are made in USA.

I also finally got my CDV-700 Model 6b Geiger counter along with my Estwing Geo/Paleontological Pick and my rucksack. Still waiting for the folding shovel and the Camelbak Thermobak Hydration Pack. Should have all of my equipment very soon just would need to order some ziplock bags from Uline.ca and maybe a seperator pouch for my rucksack.

26th Jun 2014 19:52 UTCRick Dalrymple Expert

Vitya,

I use the E6-23PC and think it is superior to all their other hammers for several reasons.

As for the crack hammer, I think the 4lb is to heavy to use all day. I like the 3lb for everyday collecting. The 2lb is to light.

I have all the Estwing hammers in my truck at any give time. I also have made myself a flip chart of specific tools for different places I go to collect. For example, I don't carry the same tools to collect micro minerals at Gold Hill, Utah that I carry when I go to collect trilobites. After a little field experience, you will get the hang of what to take and what is just extra weight.

Good Luck Collecting,

Rick

29th Jun 2014 21:27 UTCTish Hunter

One thing to consider is to mark your tools so you can identify yours and so they are easier to spot and don't get left behind. I mask a band someplace on the tool and spray paint it bright yellow. Especially if several people are working the same vicinity, it is really easy to lose track of your tools.

Tish

29th Jun 2014 22:35 UTCDennis McCoy

Tish, marking the tools is great idea.

When doing construction jobs I used to paint my tool handles emergency orange. It made it easier to spot them at the end of the day. My crew thought it was a good idea too, and before long, everybody had orange tools. Finally someone started using hot pink paint. They got a lot of ribbing, but their tools weren't mistaken for anyone else's.

1st Jul 2014 04:59 UTCturtledove thrushe

Thanks for the suggestion on painting the tools a certain color. I will have to look into that for my Estwing leather 30oz rock pick. My other tools have blue handles and colors so i do not believe those may require an additional paint color as i didn't have difficulty spotting those in Bancroft.

12th Jan 2015 17:08 UTCcascaillou

Guidelines and equipment for mineral prospecting:

https://www.mindat.org/mesg-5-411484.html

13th Jan 2015 18:38 UTCRock Currier Expert

Cascaillou,

Lots of good stuff here. Why don't you also make it into an article?

14th Jan 2015 00:07 UTCcascaillou

I was notified that I couldn't post articles on mindat under a pseudonym, and I agreed with that. I actually had two articles on my home page and replaced these by links to forum threads so to comply with the rules. Thus my articles are now on the forum, which doesn't make much difference anyway.

14th Jan 2015 06:58 UTCRock Currier Expert

cascaillou,

Why do you feel the need to use a pseudonym here on mindat? Perhaps some time in the future you may feel it possible to come here with your real name and then if you wish you can create articles of what you have written here. There is much good and useful information in your article on collecting.

14th Jan 2015 13:59 UTCcascaillou

I believe that keeping your private data for yourself is basic internet rule.

What I could do, if a forum moderator would grant me autorisation to proceed, is to post my tutorial as a single forum thread, an then create a mindat article that only contains a link to that forum thread (that way, the article itself remains on the forum accordingly to the rules, but could still be found through a mindat article search), just like this one: http://www.mindat.org/article.php/2144/DIY+specific+gravity+kit+%28tutorial%29

14th Jan 2015 23:21 UTCRock Currier Expert

I'm really not sure what to do in cases like this. Perhaps some sort of special permission could be arranged on a case by case basis, but with the change to the new format, our poor programmer is melting down and I think that this sort of thing will need to be put off for a few months. Also, although I am a manager, I would not want to make any decision about this till we can discuss what should be done in the managers forum and reach some sort of consensus. That's the way things work here on mindat. Dictators get the heave ho pretty quick, or rather those that have problems getting along with others here on mindat are never tapped to be a manager in the first place. I think I must be some sort of boarder line case and that way back when they needed more managers than they do now.

I know that some people value their privacy more than others. But I know that giving out general information about myself her on Mindat has not caused me any problems at all, so it is hard for me to fully understand your point of view, but I do respect it. Certainly Hollywood celebrities and heads of governments and large corporations seem to have valid reasons for building walls around themselves, so the idea of privacy certainly has good and practical reasons in some cases.

15th Jan 2015 09:16 UTCDale Foster Manager

On the subject of tools, I have been using a 4lb Estwing long handled hammer for almost a year now.

I would have to say far from it being tiring to use, it is now my most used hammer as it is just so effortless to use and when dealing with tougher matrix blocks will actually break them instead of generating bruising and powder on the surface of a block as I experienced with using my 2lb Estwing.

With practice I have found I can even delicately trim specimens using it and have gotten the hang of using it with a chisel as well.

It has become so useful that I quite often leave the 2lb hammer and the Estwing pick in the car unless I have a specific requirement for them.

17th Jan 2015 04:03 UTCSteve Pegler

Backhoe, diesel powered air compressor, pneumatic drill, dynamite, and a new 4WD Ram Power Wagon to haul it all around? :-) In my dreams anyway.

Actually I use a Ryobi cordless hammer drill with wedges and shims and a Ryobi cordless angle grinder with a dry type diamond blade plus three lithium batteries to cut out good specimens that a hammer and chisel might wreck. Drilling small holes and using wedges and shims splits some surprising large rocks (http://www.amazon.com/Wedges-Shims-Pkg-Sets/dp/B003838VE8). However, if all else fails, I resort to swinging a 10 lb sledge hammer. My old 2003 Jeep is good enough to haul it all this stuff around.

One time I actually used my AK-47 to blast down a rock that was too high to reach, long story, but that wouldn't be a good thing to do in Canada. Hey, I'm in Arizona, this is the wild west.

17th Jan 2015 16:30 UTCcascaillou

Legal in Arizona?

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/bagger-288.jpg

http://www.flash-screen.com/free-wallpaper/bagger-288-wallpaper/bagger-288-picture,1366x768,55069.jpg

The Destroyer of Worlds :-D

About rock blasting:

Concerning the use of explosives, in the mining industry, ammonium nitrate based mixes (ANFO, Tovex...) are prefered, for their low cost and safer handling.

Keep in mind that dangerous gases can be generated from explosive blasting (which is a concern inside an underground mine). Also the violence of the blast can be damaging to minerals.

However, I cannot recommend the use of explosives, as handling of explosives is quite dangerous and requires both specialized knowledge and authorizations.

On the other hand, there are other alternatives to conventional blasting agents:

1) "Soft" pyrotechnic alternatives (based on deflagration):

-Micro-blaster II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irkavDTDfIE

Fine for small work. Also fine for working in underground confined spaces. The device can fire 1 to 3 tiny loads (each holding a 1g charge). Required drill hole diameter: 8mm

-Boulder-buster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1SM8dqlOoQ

A bit more powerful than the micro-blaster (8-10g cartridge, which can be combined to an additional 10 or 15g booster load). Fine for small work, ideally for free standing boulders rather than in-situ rock. Let's note that the hole needs to be filled with water or gel before setting the device. Required drill hole diameter: 28-32mm holes for the smaller 26mm diameter breech unit, 38-42mm holes for the larger 34mm diameter unit.

-Nonex / Nxburst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eANuiiFFUM

These cartridges contain a deflagrating mix (based on nitrocellulose propellant and ammonium nitrate). They are electrically initiated, and the ignition system is built in to the cartridge. They produce a large volume of gas, primarily composed of nitrogen, carbon dioxide and steam. These are fine for small work as well as large work (i.e. large excavations, trenching, benching), depending on cartridge size (highest available load being 500g). The smallest loads (12-13mm diameter cartridge and not exceeding a 5g load) could also be used for underground confined spaces. Required drill hole diameter for the smallest cartridges: 14-16mm

-Other products:

Halifax cartridges: http://www.capral.fr/cadre_em6.htm

Pyroc cartridges: http://www.capral.fr/cadre_gb8.htm

PCF RocKracker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQlb2sAXWDQ&feature=youtu.be

2) Non pyrotechnic alternatives:

-Expansive mortar (Dexpan, Nexpand, Nitrex, Bristar, etc.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpQHtFmffxk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEpIYQqLAg4

It is used in quarrying. Its slow action produces no vibrations, which make it suitable for delicate jobs. Fracturing process can take up to 24h, or longer depending on ambient temperature and humidity (several formulations are available for different temperature ranges). Several holes are drilled in a tight driling pattern (recommended drill hole diameter is usually around 38-40mm, but it depends).

-Wedges & shims (aka plug & feather): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBMcMGBhUVk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orBZoJbqhPg

Fine for small work. These are available in various sizes.

-Hydro rock splitter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFcAdLzgMIs

The hydraulic rock splitter could be described as an hydraulic version of the wedges & shims principle (thus allowing stronger force and faster results). Available as small units (for instance, 18cm in length for 30-33mm diameter) which are appropriate for small work, as well as more powerful large units.

However the hydraulic rock splitter method require a power unit. Power units being available in three types: air, gas, or electric (but avoid the gas type if working underground because of toxic exhaust gases). Let's still note that the smallest units could also work with a small hand-operated hydraulic pump.

-Cardox (pressurized CO2 system): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OFsiYpDevI

This method can be used for large work. After use, the tubes are recovered and reloaded again. Required drill bit diameter for the 34mm diameter tubes: 51mm

All these methods will first require drilling holes into rock, which is done using a rotary hammer (which is not the same thing as a hammer drill!), and that's an expensive tool.

Although holes can also be drilled by hand, but it's exhausting and time-consuming: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/publications/fs_publications/84232602/page01.cfm

The technique of hand drilling involves using a club hammer and a long star drill chisel with slightly flared and sligthly curved edge (as seen in the pictures from the above link), and rotating it by roughly 45° after each hit. As drilling dust collects in the hole, some water is added so to turn it into mud which will stick to the chisel body (thus allowing to remove it by removing the chisel from the hole).

18th Jan 2015 02:38 UTCRock Currier Expert

Yes, that one is OK for small digs. I used to use one like it but traded it in for a larger model. Thanks God the price of diesel is going down.

18th Jan 2015 19:17 UTCSteve Pegler

cascaillou Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Legal in Arizona?

> http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/upload

> s/2014/04/bagger-288.jpg

> http://www.flash-screen.com/free-wallpaper/bagger-

> 288-wallpaper/bagger-288-picture,1366x768,55069.jp

> g

> The Destroyer of Worlds :-D

Yes! but it might be kind of hard on the crystals.:-)

4th Feb 2015 01:35 UTCGary Moldovany

Steve, thanks for the info on the angle grinder and hammer drill. I have recently purchased both tools. Could you please elaborate on the type of grinding/cutting wheel that you use? I was looking at some on Ebay and couldn't seem to find the right one. The owner's manual says you have to use a type 27 depressed center wheel but all I could find were grinding wheels in that configuration. Thanks! Gary

28th Feb 2015 13:32 UTCWayne Corwin

One thing about painting your tools, fluorescent is easy for you to spot,,, but,,,,,,

If your a black-lighter,, it can be awfull, tiny chips of the fluorescent paint on everything :-(

If you do use it, put a clear coat over it to help keep it on the tools.

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