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Field CollectingLooking for a kyanite source

14th Jul 2014 22:46 UTCRyan Allen

Been finding kyanite for several years. Most is float and poorly colored. Its usually in a very hard matrix and any attempt to free it just destroys the specimen.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/The%20Lake/20140704_141340_6_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140714_120653_7_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140714_120620_1_bestshot.jpg

This spring i was doing some internet research and came across an old railway footnote that described blue kyanite. I ventured into the area which required a river crossing (on foot) to see if i could find this place. I found a few tiny loose blue kyanite blades. Everything in this area appeared to be float so i started to work an ever expanding half moon shaped search grid. Late on my second day i came across a tiny spring run off creek in some of the worst dead fall patches ive seen in awhile. This little spot had some nicer blue kyanite but it is in a biotite style matrix and the actual kyanite is much more sparse. Now the questions i have are: does kyanite form in this type matrix or is it usually redeposited from somewhere else? Im hoping to find some more traditional looking specimens that one can easily find by googling blue kyanite. Would such specimens ever exist in biotite matrix?

Here are the pictures i took of this spot:

http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/library/kyanite%202014?sort=3&page=1

15th Jul 2014 02:30 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

Hi Ryan,

To answer your question, kyanite is a metamorphic mineral formed under moderate temperature and pressures. Associated minerals would include biotite and muscovite. The presence of kyanite in the mineral assemblage indicates that these rocks were metamorphosed to the amphibolite facies (or metamorphic grade). So, finding kyanite along with biotite is not unusual. Your photographs also seem to show what appears to be garnet, which is also a common mineral in amphibolite grade metamorphic rocks. Depending on the original precursor rock type, other minerals commonly found in amphibolite facies metamorphic rocks may be quartz, hornblende, plagioclase, diopside, scapolite and phlogopite. The temperature-pressure range under which amphibolite facies metamorphic rocks form spans the stability field of kyanite, andalusite and sillimanite, which are all polymorphic forms of Al2SiO3.

I'm not sure what you mean by "more traditional looking" specimens of kyanite. You may find fresher examples from unweathered bedrock, which were the source areas for these "floaters". Generally speaking, amphibolite facies metamorphism is regional in extent, so you can't expect to find much difference in the overall mineral assemblages over short distances.

Good hunting!

Holger

15th Jul 2014 05:33 UTCWayne Corwin

Ryan

Soak those in some Super Iron Out (SIO) for a couple of days,, they will be good.

where did you find them? We might be able to help you pin down the source.

15th Jul 2014 07:12 UTCEverett Harrington Expert

Hi Guys,

I have found that once the iron staining is in the quartz it's nearly impossible to remove it. I don't know exactly what happens but it ends up INSIDE the quartz?

Nice finds though you in NC? BTW Biotite and kyanite are very common in the southern states, I've always called them sweat pegs....

thanks

E

15th Jul 2014 07:57 UTCDale Foster Manager

Everett Harrington Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Hi Guys,

I have found that once the iron staining is in the quartz it's nearly impossible to remove it. I

don't know exactly what happens but it ends up INSIDE the quartz?

Bear in mind that the quartz is unlikely to have formed all at once, there are apt to be multiple phases of fluids from which the quartz has formed. If there is an iron rich pulse of fluids between quartz phases voila - iron inside the quartz. Also consider there might be subsequent penetration of iron bearing fluids into microfractures etc.

15th Jul 2014 08:44 UTCRyan Allen

Hey guys thanks for the input :-)

There is only one way to find if SIO will work i guess. Ill mix a batch and try it in the morning

Wayne, Im gonna throw this one right on the table for the mindat crew. I can find geological information on the area i just cant comprehend most of it. Like this clip i was reading tonight:

ftp://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/pub/geott/ess_pubs/121/121445/pa_65_02.pdf

You will have to use the keyword Canoe as there is other info about other places in this document.

Its roughly 10km south of the canoe river and one km west off the hiway 5 (south of valemount bc north of albreda)
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140715_000137.jpg

Everett, I do believe i met you on IRC some years back and was going to send you some garnet/mica samples but canada post wanted big $$ for shipping. They have since gotten flat rate bulk packaging and ive experimented with air scribe/ sand blast with good success(thanks Rock Currier). If you ever want to try your hand at it i would be glad to send you some material.

Thanks

Ryan

15th Jul 2014 19:34 UTCRyan Allen

Here is some newer info:

http://minfile.gov.bc.ca/Summary.aspx?minfilno=083D++018

So this is the geological term for we dont know where its coming from?" It is not known whether there are nearby exposures hosted in within pelite/schist units of the metasediments themselves or in pegmatite dykes within enclosing metasediments."

16th Jul 2014 11:09 UTCRock Currier Expert

Kyanite is often hard to clean. Put a piece in concentrated Hydrochloric acid and a week and see if it looks any different after you have rinced off. It may take multiple treatments and neutralizations.

16th Jul 2014 13:52 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

Hi Ryan,

With regard to your geological question:

" It is not known whether there are nearby exposures hosted in within pelite/schist units of the metasediments themselves or in pegmatite dykes within enclosing metasediments."

The geology of the area includes pelite/schist units that are part of a sequence of metasedimentary rocks, and intrusions of pegmatite dykes. They are just saying that no specific source bedrock areas for these boulders have been identified. That said, kyanite is not a mineral that forms in pegmatite dykes, so the source is likely the pelite/schist units.

According to the geological map presented in the GSC report, the following units contain kyanite- Unit 4b of the Isaac Formation and Unit 3a of the Kaza Group. Using the geological map, you would have to see where these units are located with respect to your find in order to find the bedrock source(s).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Holger

16th Jul 2014 21:46 UTCWayne Corwin

Ryan

Is the "pushpin" you show on the map, where you found your specimens?

If so, I would suggest it's probably come from up above on the hill.

Zig-zag your way up the hill looking for more, there will probably be a trail of it down the hill.

When you don't find any more in the soil, you just past the source, work your way back down till you find similar rock in the bedrock.

Good luck.

How did the ISO work?

17th Jul 2014 20:27 UTCRyan Allen

Update: Have been totally inundated with smoke from large forest fires for the last 3 days. Cant even see the mountains let alone climb them. Broke the above specimen into 2 pieces. Put half in SOI and the other in muriatic acid. Didnt get them in till yesterday but this is how the SOI looks after 20hr soak:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140717_114906_8_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140717_114839_1_bestshot.jpg

Seems to be working....

Just gave a quick check to the acid (its finally raining out) 5 gal bucket starts giving off a cloud of nasty every time i lid. Think ill wait till tomorrow before i neutralize

17th Jul 2014 21:03 UTCRyan Allen

Thanks Holger, This is the map i use for finding contact zones.

http://geoscan.nrcan.gc.ca/starweb/geoscan/servlet.starweb?path=geoscan/downloade.web&search1=R=223752

the white hand in this pic is the area im workin on:
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140717_124259.jpg

Wayne, Yes that pushpin is the greatest concentration of nicer blue stuff. Ive been higher up and there is lots of kyanite its just not very nicely colored. At pushpin area almost all the kyanite is blue. By the time i was getting close to the tree line it was almost all clear/grey colored with maybe 1 in 20 specimens showing any blue at all. I intend on doing a full search above the treeline in the next week but getting in the pushpin area is almost impassible with the undergrowth of summer.

17th Jul 2014 21:33 UTCHolger Hartmaier 🌟

Hi Ryan,

This is a much better map than the preliminary sketch map in the older GSC report. The unit you are interested in is Pp (Proterozoic pelite). Section C3 goes right through your area. It forms the ridge and back (southwest) side. You might see exposures at lower elevation in the side valley south of your point. Might have easier access there instead of climbing slopes through windfall.

Cheers,

Holger

18th Jul 2014 21:51 UTCRyan Allen

Holger, Thanks again i will try a southern approach from the ground up as soon as the smoke clears up.

Soaked just shy of 45 hours

SIO :

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/kyanite%202014/20140718_105307_6_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/kyanite%202014/20140718_105223_3_bestshot.jpg

Acid:

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/kyanite%202014/20140718_131702_1_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/kyanite%202014/20140718_131908_1_bestshot.jpg

19th Jul 2014 00:31 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Just to comment that kyanite is found also in the Bogaboos Mountains, about two hundred kilometres south-east of the white hand mark in Ryan's map, perhaps belonging to same upper proterozoic aged geological formation:

http://www.mindat.org/photo-592049.html

Kyanite crystals in a boulder of a wall of the CMH mountain lodge at Bugaboos Mountains.

Kyanite is hard to take away from matrix due to quartz abundance.

19th Jul 2014 06:23 UTCRyan Allen

Josele, Im actually heading on 4 day camping trip in the north thompson river headwaters tomorrow. There is an alpine lake i wanna check out if its not too smokey. According to the map it should put me directly into this material. I will keep my eyes open for similar stuff :-)

My camp=white hand
http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/20140718_214247_6_bestshot.jpg

19th Jul 2014 10:52 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Ryan, have a nice time in these remote and astonishingly beautiful mountains, and good luck with your finds.

From a trip to Nepal I bring some kyanite crystals, which is easier to extract because matrix is a micaceous schist:

Kyanite from Daha, Jajarkot District, Bheri Zone, Nepal

Piece below is 7.1 x 1.8 x 0.7 cm

27th Jul 2014 19:12 UTCRyan Allen

Wow great color on those Josele! I only found one specimen of kyanite on the whole trip. Some nice mineralization in the area. Lots of quartz and pyrite. Very rough bear infested ground for the most part. They have taken up using the "road" as their own hiway. Not a place to go without an anti-bear device. Porcupine came in the night and assaulted my rock hammer too. Cant wait till fall and some of the underbrush dies off. I will back for round 2 thats forsure.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140725_132337_6_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140725_132242_8_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140723_145341_5_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140723_140442.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140721_094713.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140720_205400_5_bestshot.jpg

28th Jul 2014 04:09 UTCKeith Wood

Could any of that black stuff be graphite? It looks a lot like the kyanite with graphite from one of the North Carolina areas.

29th Jul 2014 01:12 UTCWayne Corwin

Nice Rock Ryan (tu) :-D (tu)

29th Jul 2014 03:57 UTCRyan Allen

Keith, It very well could be graphite or at least partially. I do find a lot of graphite around here.

Thanks Wayne, Just pulled it out of the SIO for a check up. Looking good after 48hours. Gonna give it another 48 then rinse.

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140728_192259_5_bestshot.jpg

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab209/billycap4u/Tommy%20hound/20140728_192517_8_bestshot.jpg

Not much in the way of kyanite on that trip but did find a few other things that need further exploration. Anyone wanting to check out what else i came across on this mission should look here:

http://s864.photobucket.com/user/billycap4u/library/Tommy%20hound?sort=3&page=1

As always if anyone sees anything that may require a second look be sure and say so

thanks folks

Ryan

29th Jul 2014 06:09 UTCEverett Harrington Expert

Boy Ryan that was many of moons ago....what was I digging then? Been a whole lot of miles since then! Find me on facebook I'll share some photos (1700 or so) :)

Your Kyanite is looking a lot better, the stuff I found up on Mt Mitchell was a whole lot dirtier (iron). I soaked for weeks to no avail!

Now that Mr. Keith Wood has joined in you'll have all the info you need!

Keith didn't you do your thesis on NC Kyanite locales?

thanks guys! GL Ryan!

E

29th Jul 2014 12:15 UTCKeith Wood

Thanks Everett. I did my thesis on one kyanite locale, that geologic freak show near the Blue Ridge Parkway, but I became familiar with other types of occurrences in my years in NC. What Ryan has looks like the stuff that forms in a northeasterly trending belt from Black Mountain to McDowell county, NC. This belt parallels a graphite belt and partly overlaps it. It is possible along there to get kyanite associated with very pure blebs of graphite that are soft and readily color the fingers. The blades are light blue and at times densely interlocked, often with a foliation. Quartz is the most frequent associate. Corundum is sometimes present within the densest masses of kyanite, away from quartz.

Ryan, You have a nice find there. Some of it is cleaning up well. Is there feldspar and biotite in your rocks?

29th Jul 2014 17:53 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Actually I prefer the blue Kyanite and orange iron stain together. Each to his own.

29th Jul 2014 22:41 UTCRyan Allen

29th Jul 2014 22:57 UTCWayne Corwin

Ryan

Wicked nice, and some green Kyanite too (tu)

29th Jul 2014 23:04 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Yes! green is cool!!!!

9th Aug 2014 19:02 UTCRyan Allen

22nd Oct 2014 06:34 UTCRyan Allen

22nd Oct 2014 20:21 UTCWayne Corwin

(tu):-D

Nice Ryan!

22nd Oct 2014 20:39 UTCRock Currier Expert

Ryan,

You must really want that kyanite bad to go climbing through that breakdown over that little creek. Perhaps global warming will dry the place out and a fire will come along and burn the ground clear and make it easier to see what is there.

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