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Field CollectingAccessibility to sites for those of limited mobility.

6th Aug 2015 12:28 UTCJay I. G. Roland

I wonder, is it possible for one to edit a locality so as to indicate whether the site is suitable for those folks who have mobility problems either due to age or disability?

Perhaps there could be a sliding scale of accessibility from 10 being the easiest to get to, park at and collect from to 1 being a site that requires serious mountaineering skills or miles of moorland walking before one can get started?

Being such a person myself I would find it mighty helpful when deciding whether to drive out several miles to an old mine dump, quarry etc. I have often arrived at places only to be halted by serious overgrowth, many fences to be climbed or precarious cliff paths to be negotiated.

Any thoughts anyone?

Regards,

Jay.

6th Aug 2015 15:42 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert

It sounds good... a line with the accessibility level and some space for comments.

6th Aug 2015 15:55 UTCDale Foster Manager

Not a bad idea, although it would require people who have recently visited the sites to do the editing to have any useful meaning, bearing in mind things like undergrowth will vary over time from the date of any edits.

6th Aug 2015 16:07 UTCBob Harman

Theoretically a good idea, but practically speaking, difficult to do. As Dale noted, locality undergrowth varies with the time of year. In addition lots of other variables over time such as general accessibility to the site over the years of being listed as a "site". Also, over the years, many sites do significantly change making some statements of accessibility out of date and potentially misleading.

Nevertheless, I do like it so maybe this should be experimented with for several sites and see how it works after a year or so. CHEERS…..BOB

6th Aug 2015 17:00 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert

The changes over time could be accommodated by dating any relevant comments, e.g. "accessible by foot, over sedge/long grass, about 200 meters from the road (2015)." I would add that Google Earth is a great help to us in learning about collecting sites, parking, etc.

6th Aug 2015 17:32 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

There really are too many variables to the problem. It could be a 15 minute drive to the locality in dry weather, but require several hours and a 4x4 to get in after a rain. In June, you could be eaten up by bugs, but in August it could be a pleasant ramble.

7th Aug 2015 00:47 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

The bigger issue is whether you are actually allowed to go to a particular site or not.

There are so many variables there that it's not just a black and white issue of "allowed" or "not allowed". We simply don't know the access situation for the majority of sites. And even when we do, we could put that a site is open online today, and tomorrow the owners could change their mind and close it.

There are very few sites that are fully open and guaranteed to remain open for mineral collecting (and even those which we expect to remain open could close if laws change).

This is why we decided that it was in our best interests to try not to say anything about a sites status for collecting (other than if a landowner really wants us to make it clear that a site is closed).

Jolyon

7th Aug 2015 02:28 UTCWayne Corwin

Jolyon

Does Mindat have a standard posting (signage) that can be added to a locality if the property owner wants it known that a site is closed?

7th Aug 2015 12:55 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Nothing formal, but something like this can be added.

"NOTE: The property owners have asked us to make clear that this locality is on private property and is currently (INSERT MONTH/YEAR HERE) off-limits to collectors. Unauthorized access to this property for mineral collecting or any other reason strictly prohibited."

We do ask to see some evidence that the person asking IS the property owner. And adding the date into the above is very important too.

7th Aug 2015 13:17 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

It would be best if such notices came to Mindat from the property owner themselves, so, if you know a land owner or mining claim holder who really doesn't want anyone digging up stones on their land or claim, you could ask them to write to Mindat stating that fact, and providing some back up like a map showing where the property boundaries are located.

Having third parties post such info on Mindat could result in some less-than-honest field collectors just trying to frighten other collectors away from their favorite digging spots :-D

More specifically re the original question about accessibility for the handicapped, if a locality has its coordinates listed on Mindat, one can often see on the Google Earth image whether it is possible to drive right up to a quarry or mine dump or not.

7th Aug 2015 14:39 UTCDale Foster Manager

Google Earth is a useful tool, but does little to tell you about local conditions under foot and how easy getting to a site actually is.

Taking one of my favourite sites at St Agnes, everything looks great on the Google Earth images - but actually go to 'boots on the ground' and it is a totally different kettle of fish - what looked easily accessible is actually full of steep slopes and heavy undergrowth that requires determined scrambling to get to the interesting spots.

7th Aug 2015 14:49 UTCJay I. G. Roland

When I made the original post I was thinking more generally. Earlier this week I drove out to a site where the distance twixt the public car park and the public site where I wished to collect from was something like 200 yards.....only 150 of those yards were down a pretty steep & narrow cliff path which I might have got down but most certainly wouldn't have got back up.

I don't think it would be asking too much to simply give a bit of detail as to how easy/difficult a location would be to access including parking facilities if available, with of course a caveat stating that permission must always be sought & granted afore one starts to collect.

I suspect there are more than a few folk that would find such details very useful when making plans for visits. As for using Google Earth I appreciate it does have its uses but they are very limited in this regard. I have just tried it for the location I was attempting to access and the images are wholly inadequate for any detailed assessment as to whether the site is accessible to those with limited mobility.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

Regards,

Jay.

7th Aug 2015 19:02 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Feel free to add any such information (with date) to any locality. Others might find it helpful.

7th Aug 2015 20:35 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

This is a decision for regional editors to decide whether such descriptions are permissible on sites in their regions. I have no problem with you adding such descriptions to any Cornish localities, Jay, but it may be that in some other parts of the world it would not be advisable for us to put such information online.

Jolyon

7th Aug 2015 21:43 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert

In Portugal, if the mineral locality is in a remote zone (e.g. in a mountain without car access and far from of all) there's no problem in uploading this kind of information. But, for the large majority of the mines/others that are too close to localities it was and is a problem. Nobody likes to see his private terrains invaded by a legion of guys armed with hammers. Some owners became completely angry/astonished when they saw their minerals in the web for sale at really high prices. I have recently talked with the person responsible for the maintenance/guard of a very well known Zn mine with top quality descloizites and willemites (getting permission to make a visit in the next days) and he told me that some local and foreign collecters had invaded and broken all the fences and gates of the galleries.

So, it is necessary some care when adding information inviting people to go to the house of others. I know of more examples of similar situations.

I keep in my agenda lots of usefull contacts for a large number of portuguese localities and have never received a negative answer when asking permission for a visit.

Rui

7th Aug 2015 22:06 UTCColin Robinson

In the U.K. virtually all sites are on private land and collecting will require the specific permission of the land and/or mineral rights owner. Putting any details about accessibility on a public forum is guaranteed to get the interest and probably also bring down the wrath of the site owners. It will almost certainly result in a negative response from owners and place even more restrictions on the hobby.

There are many sites I'd like to visit but old age and infirmity mean I never will. I accept that but still get a great deal of enjoyment from the places I can manage to get to. If my way is obstructed by a barbed-wire fence I turn round and go back. The last time I attempted to climb over one I slipped and seriously gashed my left hand. I know my limitations and live with them. PLEASE, let's not start poking a stick into the hornets nest by discussing site accessibility.

7th Aug 2015 22:28 UTCKyle Beucke 🌟

I agree completely Colin!

Kyle

8th Aug 2015 00:12 UTCScott Rider

Jay, if you ever come into Colorado, there is a classic spot you can dig, as they are on BLM land and no claims, that in Devil's Head pegmatite., area provides many safe and easy to locate digs, where you literally can park you car and dig right next to it... Its probably the best spot in Colorado for extremely easy access.

I found a small pocket of deep green Amazonite that was literally on the edge of a parking/camping spot. I noticed about a half dozen iron-crusted microcline crystals that ended up being very, very well formed amazonite!! There were small smoky and fluorite crystals found there as well. All of that was found about 10 feet from Rampart Range road, and like I said, in the parking lot of one of the camping sites. That isn't the only parking lot pocket either, they are all over Rampart Range...

8th Aug 2015 09:21 UTCsteven garza

Dear All:

As some know, I give collecting/natural history trips, to various localities; however, BEFORE I do, I have to have a standard set of questions answered. The info isn't to keep them off a trip, but, for me, so I can look out for possible attacks ("gold fever" tends to hide such, from the person having them, until it gets BAD), to help them avoid trail hazards that expose them to allergens, chose another LONGER route they can handle, or, even eliminate a locality for a better accessible one. I can do this all the way up to "wheelchair" level. As mentioned, this would take some who has been RECENTLY, & continuously, to an "x" site, for such to be any good. On top of that, you MUST ask the property owner, who may let average people collect freely, if a handicapped person would be allowed; because of the HIGHLY increased risk of liability, he may say no. Even if the property own likes you, anyone who didn't trust you implicitly, is likely to say "no".

A handicollector would have to ask local collectors for this info, as, even if it was posted here it's OK, that info can mis-info, the minute it was posted. Also, a handicollector should be willing to have people help them, in whatever manner would be necessary (portage through rougher terrain, unseating & seating, tool use), &, unfortunately, they tend to want "total independence", to the degree that they won't allow such. Another "also": who's scale would be used to "grade" these localities? How would this "X level" be assigned?

Your friend, Steve

8th Aug 2015 23:37 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

It seems to me at least that in some areas like most of outback Australia we have a really huge backlog of sites to enter, add minerals, coordinates and general information, even for major operating mines. Adding tourist information is well down this list sadly, especially keeping current the land access/ ownership status. But for designated fossicking areas I might look at adding the published public information, or at least linking to the websites with the details, which usually note access and seasonal issues. Best usually though if people contact local gem and mineral clubs who organize trips and know the issues with the sites. Most of our sites require a lot of hiking and bush- bashing also, not too many invalid-friendly collecting sites around. Anything easy of access is usually worked over anyway.

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