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Ruby in Zoisite versus Ruby in Fuchsite

Posted by Kristi Hugs  
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Kristi Hugs October 18, 2009 04:48PM
I am having a discussion with a friend on a specific piece. I say it is ruby in fuchsite, she says it is ruby in zoisite. To me, fuchsite is lighter with little mica sparkles while zoisite is a darker, almost emerald green with black spots (have no idea what the black spots are). Can anyone explain to me the major differences between ruby in zoisite and ruby in fuchsite? I know there is a chemical difference (found that on mindat.org) but how would one identify these properly? I think Fuchsite is softer than Zoisite......

Online, I see lots of vendors who are saying what they have is Ruby in Zoisite, but it is a light green to blue/green which I have always known to be fuchsite. How do you tell the difference?

Also, are there fake/fraudy pieces of this out there?

Any help is gratefully appreciated!
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Alfredo Petrov October 18, 2009 05:17PM
No need for anyone to make fake pieces of this, I'd think, since the natural supply is abundant enough.

Fuchsite is a green mica variety, so it will be soft and flaky - If it's fuchsite, you should be able to break thin flakes off very easily with the point of a needle. Zoisite can be lots of different colours, so shade of colour is not a good guide to its identification. The zoisite which forms the massive matrix of the rubies from East Africa is usually light green. The black parts in that material are mostly an amphible.
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Kristi Hugs October 18, 2009 05:22PM
Thank you! I was almost sure that was the case, but if not 100% sure, i like to come to the experts :)
The reason for the fake question was because someone pointed out that the ruby in her specimen looked more like chips that were inserted.....:) I didnt really get that but it always is prudent to ask :)

thanks again!!
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Adam Kelly October 18, 2009 06:25PM
Kristi,
The material with the smaller ruby "chips" is the older material in general.
The newer stuff, maybe five or six years ago, has the bigger/better pieces of ruby.
Fun fact, tanzanite is a form of zoisite.
AK
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John Betts November 09, 2009 06:21PM
The matrix is translucent green zoisite with specks of black tschermakite.
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Rock Currier November 09, 2009 07:53PM
Most of the ruby in fuchsite on the market is from southern India, and the color of the fuchsite is a lighter green than the zoisite that is mostly from Tanzania. Also the rubies in the fuchsite often are frequently surrounded by a thin layer of blue green kyanite.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Kristi Hugs November 11, 2009 01:55AM
Ya'll are the best! thank you!!
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Zeng Zhouyu May 21, 2011 04:30AM
Ruby Zoisite,is from Tanzania,Apple-green zoisite and Red Corundum,with black amphibole
but ruby fuchsite is from India,Yellow-green fushite (mica) with red Corundum.the rough stone is a slice and chip,not a block.
it is different~~
our factory make the two stone to export many kinds of beads,spheres,eggs,and pendants, cabs....
Just I had a working visit for the ruby fuchsite mine in india.
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Yan Beaudet May 25, 2011 08:40PM
hi dont forget than it could be ruby in green kyanite too .bye
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Kristi Hugs September 06, 2011 03:02PM
This is what they are calling Ruby in Zoisite from India. Isnt this Ruby in Fuschite???
open | download - rubyzoisite wand.jpg (79.1 KB)
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Rock Currier September 07, 2011 11:45AM
Yes, its in Fuschite. In the Indian material, the ruby often has little rims of bluish green kyanite around the rubies as I see in this piece.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Charlie Odorizzi October 10, 2011 04:13AM
Does anyone here know if ruby can occur in serpentine? Thanks.
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Ralph Bottrill October 10, 2011 10:59AM
Corundum can occur the contact of ultramafics (eg serpentinites) and aluminous rocks, but I have not seen it within serpentinite.

Regards,
Ralph
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jgb February 27, 2012 03:06AM
Fuschite is a type of mica (variation of Muscovite)

Zoesite is a very different mineral (the most valuable form is Tanzanite)

The black in the Ruby/Zoesite (also known as Anyolite) is Hornblende
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Craig Mercer February 27, 2012 03:23AM
Looks like a healy feely thingy, that could be made of any compressed material, of course it's fully loaded with supernatural powers, that's a given winking smiley
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Andy Stucki (2) February 27, 2012 07:44AM
Serpentinites are almost always poor in aluminium. The little Al there is will be taken up by chlorite, amphiboles and (even, to a small extent) pyroxenes. So, yes, no corundum within serpentinites. However, corundum is quite typical in contact rocks between serpentine/peridotite (think of serpentinite as a hydrated peridotite) and adjacent rocks (granites, gneisses, amphibolites and others). In those cases, serpentinites are the source for the chromium that is responsible for the ruby color.
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Bart Cannon February 27, 2012 02:01PM
John,

Can you direct me to a paper confirming that the dark xls in the green African zoisite / ruby specimens are truly tschermakite? This would be valuable news for the amphibole challenged such as myself.

No surprise, but EDS shows a little chromium in the green zoisite.

Bart
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Andy Stucki (2) February 27, 2012 05:29PM
Bart,
There's some basic information in a 1954 paper in the Mineralogical Magazine. You can download it here:

http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/MinMag/TOC/TOC30/TOC30_226.htm

The paper focusses on the zoisite but offers some basic information on the amphibole.
Hope this helps,
Andy
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Bart Cannon February 27, 2012 09:02PM
Thank you Andy.

I was hoping for a much newer reference, but I will obtain the article and review it.

Might be fun to track the history of tschermakite.

I bought a tschermakite grain from Harvard back when they were offering probe standards for oxygen analysis. The grains were good for all of the other constituents.

I'll compare the spectra.

Bart
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Alfredo Petrov February 27, 2012 09:09PM
Some of this "tschermakite" has also been sold as "aluminotschermakite" - Not sure whether the latter ever went through a proper submission and approval or is just one of the "named" amphiboles?
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Laurelle Rethke October 04, 2013 06:27AM
hello friends,
do any of you guys know the best way to break up a larger chunk of ruby in zoiste? i need smaller pieces. thanks!!
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Tim Jokela Jr November 22, 2013 08:43PM
Pressure trimmer is best. Hammer is ok. Sawing with a diamond blade will provide least waste if you don't mind flat sawn faces.
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NurseCheriez August 29, 2015 11:57AM
Yes Tanzanite and Zoisite are in the Same Gemstone family!;)
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NurseCheriez August 29, 2015 12:01PM
Ok im still confused on the difference between Ruby Fushite& Ruby Zoisite? Whats the absolute Easiest way to tell them apart for a beginner like me lol?
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NurseCheriez August 29, 2015 12:07PM
So in girls terms fushite is a prettier more vibrant green than zoisite correct?
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Owen Melfyn Lewis August 30, 2015 04:41PM
Hey NC! Welcome.

Not sure how tanzanite got into this thread but try this as a combi-answer to your recent posts here.

Zoisite is one species of mineral. Tanzanite is a particular variety of zoisite that is only found (so far) in one small area of Tanzania (hence the varietal name). Relatively few (<10%) of tanzanite specimens (either cut gems or mineral specimens) are untreated. Most have been heated to produce/maximise the blue colour that the marked expects to see (because almost all is so treated).

Ruby-in-Zoisite (aka anyolite) comes mainly from Tanzania and Kenya. Both the ruby and the zoisite are opaque and not of gem grade. Typically, the ruby is pink to a light red and the zoisite a dark to emerald green. There may be black spotting. The stuff makes a poor gemstone but can be carved skillfully into some very interesting effects in pieces of ornamental size.

Fuchsite is opaque, a variety of muscovite (a mica) sometimes found as an inclusion in some transparent crystal, such as zoisite or quartz. The colour comes from some substitution in the muscovite formula of Al by Cr. Depending on level of Cr substitution, the green colouration imparted to the muscovite to give the fuchsite variety varies from pale green (sometimes called 'Eau de Nil') to a strong emerald green.

To know whether you have ruby-in-zoisite (colouring agent unspecified) or ruby-in-fuchsite may require a chemical analysis or other testing which almost no retail buyer (nor a majority of dealers) will ever perform.

Then there is always ruby in serpentine, just to confuse things further!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDQld5kSjZM

http://geology.com/minerals/fuchsite.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoisite

Of course, to mineralogists (not mere gem buyers) differentiation between rough specimens of all three may be relatively simple but, between cut and polished specimens, one needs to use instruments.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2015 09:47PM by Owen Melfyn Lewis.
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Reiner Mielke September 08, 2015 01:46PM
If tschermakite was identified prior to the redefinition in 2012 then it might not be tschermakite. Is there a more recent analysis than the 1954 paper?
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Olav Revheim September 08, 2015 02:20PM
Cedric Simonet (2000): Geology of Sapphire and Ruby Deposits -The example of the John Saul Ruby Mine, Mangare area, Southern Kenya” PhD Thesis, University of Nantes provides 4 microprobe analyses giving the following normalized formula in average: (Na0.71,K0.06,Ca0.05)0,82 (Ca1,87, Mg0,12, Mn0,01)2,00((Mg2,91,Fe2+0,87Ti0,01,Cr0,06,Al1,15)5,00 (Si5,89Al1,11)8,00O22(OH)2.
This corresponds to pargasite in all of the amphibole nomenclatures.

On a general basis, the tschermakite end member is unstable, but ferric iron seems to increase the stability somewhat, but all tschermakites root-name analyses I have seen has been very close to the tschermakite/pargasite/hastingsite join. I don't think a ruby/zoisite rock would contain sufficient amounts of ferric iron to allow tschermakite to form.

Olav



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 02:22PM by Olav Revheim.
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Reiner Mielke September 08, 2015 04:31PM
Thank you Olav!
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joanne October 25, 2016 12:18AM
just wondering why mine smells funny ,like plastic, polymer ,is this one I bought fake
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