Ruby in Zoisite versus Ruby in Fuchsite

I am having a discussion with a friend on a specific piece. I say it is ruby in fuchsite, she says it is ruby in zoisite. To me, fuchsite is lighter with little mica sparkles while zoisite is a darker, almost emerald green with black spots (have no idea what the black spots are). Can anyone explain to me the major differences between ruby in zoisite and ruby in fuchsite? I know there is a chemical difference (found that on mindat.org) but how would one identify these properly? I think Fuchsite is softer than Zoisite......

Online, I see lots of vendors who are saying what they have is Ruby in Zoisite, but it is a light green to blue/green which I have always known to be fuchsite. How do you tell the difference?

Also, are there fake/fraudy pieces of this out there?

Any help is gratefully appreciated!

No need for anyone to make fake pieces of this, I'd think, since the natural supply is abundant enough.

Fuchsite is a green mica variety, so it will be soft and flaky - If it's fuchsite, you should be able to break thin flakes off very easily with the point of a needle. Zoisite can be lots of different colours, so shade of colour is not a good guide to its identification. The zoisite which forms the massive matrix of the rubies from East Africa is usually light green. The black parts in that material are mostly an amphible.

Thank you! I was almost sure that was the case, but if not 100% sure, i like to come to the experts :)
The reason for the fake question was because someone pointed out that the ruby in her specimen looked more like chips that were inserted.....:) I didnt really get that but it always is prudent to ask :)

thanks again!!

Kristi,
The material with the smaller ruby "chips" is the older material in general.
The newer stuff, maybe five or six years ago, has the bigger/better pieces of ruby.
Fun fact, tanzanite is a form of zoisite.
AK

The matrix is translucent green zoisite with specks of black tschermakite.

Most of the ruby in fuchsite on the market is from southern India, and the color of the fuchsite is a lighter green than the zoisite that is mostly from Tanzania. Also the rubies in the fuchsite often are frequently surrounded by a thin layer of blue green kyanite.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

Ya'll are the best! thank you!!

Ruby Zoisite,is from Tanzania,Apple-green zoisite and Red Corundum,with black amphibole
but ruby fuchsite is from India,Yellow-green fushite (mica) with red Corundum.the rough stone is a slice and chip,not a block.
it is different~~
our factory make the two stone to export many kinds of beads,spheres,eggs,and pendants, cabs....
Just I had a working visit for the ruby fuchsite mine in india.

hi dont forget than it could be ruby in green kyanite too .bye

This is what they are calling Ruby in Zoisite from India. Isnt this Ruby in Fuschite???

Yes, its in Fuschite. In the Indian material, the ruby often has little rims of bluish green kyanite around the rubies as I see in this piece.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

Does anyone here know if ruby can occur in serpentine? Thanks.

Corundum can occur the contact of ultramafics (eg serpentinites) and aluminous rocks, but I have not seen it within serpentinite.

Regards,
Ralph

Fuschite is a type of mica (variation of Muscovite)

Zoesite is a very different mineral (the most valuable form is Tanzanite)

The black in the Ruby/Zoesite (also known as Anyolite) is Hornblende

Looks like a healy feely thingy, that could be made of any compressed material, of course it's fully loaded with supernatural powers, that's a given

Serpentinites are almost always poor in aluminium. The little Al there is will be taken up by chlorite, amphiboles and (even, to a small extent) pyroxenes. So, yes, no corundum within serpentinites. However, corundum is quite typical in contact rocks between serpentine/peridotite (think of serpentinite as a hydrated peridotite) and adjacent rocks (granites, gneisses, amphibolites and others). In those cases, serpentinites are the source for the chromium that is responsible for the ruby color.

John,

Can you direct me to a paper confirming that the dark xls in the green African zoisite / ruby specimens are truly tschermakite? This would be valuable news for the amphibole challenged such as myself.

No surprise, but EDS shows a little chromium in the green zoisite.

Bart

Bart,
There's some basic information in a 1954 paper in the Mineralogical Magazine. You can download it here:

[rruff.geo.arizona.edu]

The paper focusses on the zoisite but offers some basic information on the amphibole.
Hope this helps,
Andy

Thank you Andy.

I was hoping for a much newer reference, but I will obtain the article and review it.

Might be fun to track the history of tschermakite.

I bought a tschermakite grain from Harvard back when they were offering probe standards for oxygen analysis. The grains were good for all of the other constituents.

I'll compare the spectra.

Bart

Some of this "tschermakite" has also been sold as "aluminotschermakite" - Not sure whether the latter ever went through a proper submission and approval or is just one of the "named" amphiboles?