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Fakes & FraudsFake or Real black quartz crystal?

3rd Feb 2010 16:58 UTCPeter Miranon

Hello all,


Could someone tell if this "natural" black quartz crystal is real or fake (smelted glass?) - Ebay link


Seller has 99.7% 1520 rating, but i don't know if it's enough proof.


Thanks.

3rd Feb 2010 17:06 UTCsteven garza

Dear Peter;

Unfortunately, it may or may not be a real quartz xl; the sides are polished, into the xl shape, but, they could have taken ANY large piece of smoky quartz & done that. Unless you had a piezometer, there's virtually no way top tell if that is a polished xl or random piece; but, it is quartz.

Your friend, Steve

3rd Feb 2010 20:35 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Looks like a fake crystal ( cut to look like one) to me ( curved smooth faces, termination angles look wrong). As for smoky quartz, it is probably irradiated clear quartz.

4th Feb 2010 03:48 UTCJamey Swisher

I am fairly certain this has been cut & polished to mimic a quartz xl. Is it a natural xl though? No way to tell for certain from the image, but it does look to be quartz, just not a natural quartz point.

4th Feb 2010 04:24 UTCCraig Mercer

It's a fake. No doubt !!

4th Feb 2010 07:46 UTCNeil A. Richards Expert

Typical manufacured item for the New Age market.

4th Feb 2010 12:45 UTCPeter Miranon

Thanks for your answers. Ebay is full of these items, some are as low as 0.99$.


Could someone tell where i can buy original large natural quartz points?

4th Feb 2010 14:34 UTCAnonymous User

Peter:

Grinding and polishing materials into crystal shapes is very common, especially for the crystal power market. As Reiner said, they often get the termination angles wrong, and all of the "faces" and "edges" are often slightly rounded. Natural quartz crystals usually have very flat faces and sharp edges between them, and there are usually slight striations (steps) on the prism faces that run perpendicular to the length of the crystal. In hand, the difference between a natural and a cut crystal is obvious.


I once had a dealer show me a fist-sized "herkimer" quartz with inclusions and ask me what I thought it was worth. I told her it was a hunk of Brazilian quartz that had been cut - worth a couple of bucks. She was mad at me for that....


There are many dealers that sell natural material. You should be able to tell by most photos whether they are natural or not. Check out the quartz photos on mindat for examples.

5th Feb 2010 00:59 UTCAdam Kelly

Well said Ken.

5th Feb 2010 20:16 UTCsteven garza

Dear Peter;

If you wish to have a natural, unbeautified, LARGE quartz points, there are many dealers who can supply such; PM me & I'll give you a list of them. As far as the quartz, I believe it to be natural smokey, as it is FAR cheaper & more plentiful to use natural smokey chunks (cents/lb), rather than irradiated material, which costs about a $1/lb.


Glad to see you wish the real thing!


your friend, Steve

3rd Mar 2010 23:49 UTCmarko

hi people

i wanted to ask you how to spot fake crystal? i have tiger's eye and i dont know if it os real or not?

i am from montenegro (europe) and there are many goods from china and india here.There they paint glass and sell it like crystals. please help me how to recognize real crystal from fake one.

4th Mar 2010 07:41 UTCRock Currier Expert

Crystals generally have sharp angular crystals. Tiger eye is a quartz family mineral and is not found in crystals, but rather massive forms, typically vein sections usually not more than 3 inches thick. If you can attach an image of what you think may be a "fake crystal" we may be able to advise you better. It sounds like you are not really sure what a crystal is or is not. Do you want to know if your tiger eye specimen is real or not?

4th Mar 2010 15:18 UTCLuiz Alberto Dias Menezes, Fo.

Hello Peter:


Your quartz is certainly polished, the angle between the termination faces and the prism faces are steeper than in a natural quartz crystal; about the color, irradiated quartz normally show an homogeneous color (because it is normally made out of colorless quartz), whilst natural dark smoky quartz normally show shades of lighter and darker zones, so if your specimen show slightly different color shades (you have to investigate it against a strong light) there is a good chance that it was not irradiated (on the photo it is impossible to see the internal color).


Luiz Menezes

4th Mar 2010 18:42 UTCAriel S Wall

Hi Peter, I would highly reccomend obtaining a cathedral smokey quartz specemin from Canvic, Romaia. They usually have a dolomite coating on half of the points resembling snow covered mountians. They are a must have for any natural smokey quartz collection. They look like this,


http://cgi.ebay.com/3-HOODED-SMOKY-QUARTZ-Crystal-Dolomite-Caps-Romania_W0QQitemZ380197099211QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item58858356cb


I would not reccoment buying this particluar piece because it is overpriced, buy they do show up for auction periodically and I have obtained bigger clusters for abou $150 or so. They are cathedral type growth, completely natural and un treated. they grow on a bed of galena, and pyrite so they are exposed to natural radiation from the hydrothermal vent that they grew on. Good luck,


Ariel

5th Mar 2010 00:09 UTCAdam Kelly

Ariel,

Actually as far as I know all smoky quartz from Romania is irridiated.

I was informed of that AFTER purchasing one.

AK

5th Mar 2010 00:39 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Technically, all smoky quartz is irradiated, from everywhere. The question is only whether it was irradiated by Nature, at low levels for a very long period of time, or by a human being using intense radiation for a very short time.

5th Mar 2010 01:02 UTCAriel S Wall

Hi Adam,
Some of it may be irradiated, but these pictures of the mine clearly show smokeys growing from the wall of Boldut mine in situ. It is pretty safe to say that if the quartz is growing atop galena and pyrite, that natural radiation is present or was present at the time of crystal growth. That type of hydrothermal activity is a pretty safe bet the radiation is natural occuring. Most specemines require some cleaning to clear off some of the dolomite overgrowth and other crusties.If some of the specemines are being irradiated then there is some definate variety out there. Here is the proof. Courtesy of mindat!


http://www.mindat.org/photo-195850.html


http://www.mindat.org/photo-126563.html


http://www.mindat.org/photo-206311.html


http://www.mindat.org/photo-195853.html


Ariel

5th Mar 2010 01:54 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Adam is right, I've been told by local experts that there is NO natural smoky quartz (except some very pale brown) from the area. It's all irradiated artificially.


And Ariel, I can't see any evidence of smoky quartz in those photos - don't forget even with clear quartz, when underground connected to rock you'll see through it - to the dark rock! And Galena and Pyrite environments generally don't have enough radiation to do it.


So my advice would NOT be to buy any romanian "smokey" cathedrals, at least not if you want something thats entirely natural.


Jolyon

5th Mar 2010 02:10 UTCAdam Kelly

Idiots never learn,

Smart people learn from their mistakes,

Genuises learn from other peoples mistakes.

I learned the hard way.

AK

5th Mar 2010 03:01 UTCAriel S Wall

I purchased mine from MT Minerals from New York. Diddn't say anything about that when I bought it.


It still is nice though. It even had a little party glitter on it when I got it. Must have payed for the alcohol onhtat one.


Ariel




http://www.mindat.org/photo-215172.htmll

5th Mar 2010 03:09 UTCLuiz Alberto Dias Menezes, Fo.

Alfredo Petrov is right in saying that all smoky quartz is irradiated, most times by nature, but I insist on my comment that most (or maybe all) artificially irradiated smoky quartz is made out of colorless quartz, normally coming from metamorphic rocks, and showing a more homogeneous chemical composition, whilst the bulk (in terms of size and tonnage) of natural smoky quartz come from pegmatites (and the main producer area in the world is the pegmatite province of NE of Minas Gerais, Brazil), and on this environment smoky quartz has a more variable amount of chemical impurities (Mg, Al, Fe, etc) what results in at least slight color variations inside the crystal when it is submitted to natural radiactivity inside the pegmatite, so the presence of lighter and darker internal zones, or changes from yellowish-brown to orange-brown to near black-brown suggests that one specimen is more likely natural than irradiated.


Luiz

6th Mar 2010 00:14 UTCAdam Kelly

Luiz,

In my humble opinion, you are correct.

Inconsistencies could help in identifying natural, verse artificially irridiated quartz.

14th Apr 2010 01:34 UTCRusty James

For what its worth, there are quite a number of Chinese dealers on ebay now who look "reputable" because they have a few thousand feedback. If you look back at their feedback, the first thousand are so are from Chinese buyers. Most of these scammers are selling quartz from anywhere with all the appropriate key words attached to them to make people look at them. 99% of the stones they sell come from China or Brazil, but they claim they are from under locality under the sun. And many of them are foolish. There is one guy aximi and or gem-crafters (same guy, same hand n photos) who puts pictures of "the mine" from where the quartz came from, and he has the same picture on auctions for crystals from two different countries.....or shows a picture from "Bor Quarry" which is a cliffside with holes in it and no quarry to be found. Ebay basically encourages these dealers to do what they want, and has no interest in trying to stop them because they profit from them. When in doubt, don't buy anything from Chinese dealers on ebay regardless of their feedback.

29th Apr 2010 16:27 UTCR.S.Taylor

It looks Chinese and if it's from China it's probably smelted quartz which is nothing more than colored glass. A good rule of thumb, is if it's cut and polished from China don't buy it.

18th Oct 2010 13:43 UTCalven

that's correct! i have a smokey quartz crystal charm bracelet - the beads are shinny but not faceted. there are visible flaws in some beads and only the light of the sun can reveal it's natural reddish to dark brown color. :D

26th Jun 2012 02:29 UTCJohnSmitt

I bought 2 pieces of tiger eyes. One from china and one from the state on eBay are fake. Both of them have wood inside. If anyone wear a cheap tiger eyes from eBay that I know of, they are fake and don't know yet.

29th Jun 2012 23:46 UTCDaniel jacobs

I see these ebayers ALL the time on ebay. It is VERY suspicious when theyre selling their item for .01 cent on ebay and 15$ shipping across continents. VERY SHADY! Selling their "crystal" for nothing draws red flags..it basically means they are a HUGE dealer of these, which could mean their products are fake. Thats just my 2 cents.. im a HUGE ebayer. Ive had lots of success from china though. If you want some SOLID ebay user ids from other countries PM me.

22nd Jul 2012 19:58 UTCKristopher Dingfield

I have a smokey twin that is around 12in. x 14in. collected in lake george colorado I would sell you, but also there are many miners in my area pulling out good real smokies everyday.

28th Jul 2012 14:30 UTCOwen Lewis

Interesting thread.


I went to SMAM 2012 where, shall we say, Quartz in all qualities and sorts was not in short supply. I saw one display of "Citrine" that intrigued me. That these were smallish, naturally formed, Quartz xtls seemed beyond doubt at a glance, But all of these xtls were 'burned' smoky-black at the tip of the termination and also at some of the other facet junctions. These were being sold (very modestly priced) as natural Citrine.


So what had been going on here? A botched attempt to produce Citrine from colourless Quartz through over-irradiation? Or an attempt to produce Citrine from Smoky Quartz through heating? My guess would be that it was a result of an irradiation process; it seem logical that, in either process, colour change should first occur where the material has the least depth, this in turn producing opposite effects with the alternative processes, Only the irradiation process could give/leave the burned tips, The effect (and deduction) is not unlike considering an Alaska Bake that had been flashed with a blowtorch just before serving, to partly carbonise the tips of the meringue casing.


Natural or artificial irradiation? Again a guess, my inclination would be to artificial radiation, 'high and fast' seeming key to producing this blowtorch effect.


Anyone else look at this and wonder? Sadly, I took no pics.

4th Jun 2014 21:56 UTCWayne Corwin

Tony

Sorry, no way to tell from just photo's, there cut stones, if there stones, can't do any tests on them :-S

11th Jun 2014 15:47 UTCAnonymous User

Location,location,location. There are many naturally occuring dark smokey quartz on the market. If it is Brazilian it is probably real. They have no particular need to "make" smokey quartz. However,if it is dark and from Arkansas then odds are 99% that it has been treated.

18th Jun 2014 10:10 UTCRock Currier Expert

Can't tell from the photos, but they are probably natural quartz. There is still plenty of cheap quartz rough out there from which to cut such small stones and Im sure it is cheaper than synthetic quartz. Of course it could be just glass.
 
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