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Trying to figure out if I have a fake

Posted by Kali Blaze  
Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 11, 2012 05:17AM
I recently purchased what was said to be a titanium druzy cabochon. While the front is quite pretty, the distribution of color has me suspicious. The back is not colored at all by the supposed titanium, and there are 2 spots on the side which appear to have held the quartz piece in place while it was sprayed. The colors on the front are very peacock-like - bright teal, purple, and gold. My thought is that I'm probably looking at a painted piece.

I can't find a description of how the titanium coating is put on quartz for this type of piece. The seller told me that their process doesn't cover the back, and I argued enough to get a refund. Not too surprisingly, the piece comes out of China, which only heightens my suspicions, as I know the titanium coating is an American innovation.

I want to know mostly because I'd like to be able to use this piece and label it accurately when I go to sell it. If pictures would help, I can upload them. I know there's a difference between the two that is visible with a loupe, but I don't own a loupe yet.

Thanks,
Kali
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 11, 2012 05:49AM
It would be easier for us to understand your question and give advice if you could post some pictures.
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 11, 2012 09:29AM
There are at least two processes that deposit thin films on drusy quartz that have been called titanium quartz. Give us a picture please.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 12, 2012 08:44AM
i know what you talking about it's a botryoidal chalcedony cut in cab shape and coated with titanium the exact same way than they made all this aura quartz on market .each country in the world are able to coated minerals with thin metal layer it's not a secret you can see exactly how to do on internet.bye
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 12, 2012 08:51AM
Kali -

I'm not sure what the problem is. You know it's a fake and the "titanium" coating is man-made. What you seem to be suggesting is that the coating wasn't done well enough - if that's the case just send it back.

To label it properly, you need to disclose that it has been artificially treated to give a metallic sheen.

Never did see the point of these "genetically modified" quartzes and agates myself. There's enough beauty in the natural mineral world without having to fake it.
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 12, 2012 10:30AM
The trouble with us, Jolyon, is that we are not sufficiently, 'New Age'. smiling smiley
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 12, 2012 10:55PM
It sounds like the concern is that it's a fake fake.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 13, 2012 05:24PM
get scam when what you want is a fake ! the cheap new age sellers are so hungry for money than they now make fakes of their own fakes. what next they will make man-made version of their ugly chunk of quartzite they sold for hundred dollars a piece.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 15, 2012 05:01AM
Hi, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

I know what I have is a chunk of probably agate that has a druzy pocket in it, which is coated with something. There's a chance it's quartz, but with that milky color, I think it's safe enough to go a touch more specific and say agate. It's not really my thing normally, but I saw it and had an idea about what kind of setting would suit the shape of the stone and the druzy.

What I don't know is if that coating is titanium (or another metal) or paint. I have a loupe on the way, and it looks like I might be able to tell if it's paint using the loupe if it's good, but I won't have it for several weeks. In the meantime, I want to start work on this piece, and I just want to be accurate and truthful in how I describe it when I put it up for sale. This question is mostly about protecting my integrity as an artist.

I have photos now to attach - I wasn't back sooner because we just got home from a trip when I posted originally, and it took me a bit to figure out where my camera was put. Anyhow, here are the pictures:

The first one is from the top -

Then, from the side - trying to show the demarcation between the colored and uncolored area -

And last, the back -

Anyhow, if anyone can tell if I'm dealing with a painted imposter or a "real" titanium coated druzy stone, I'd appreciate it.

~Blaze
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 15, 2012 09:04AM
Don't worry, I think you have a genuine fake there, not one of those pesky fake fakes.
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 15, 2012 04:14PM
I think the coating (probably titanium, but indium and even gold can be used) was applied by the usual vapor deposition technique, and not painted on. It would be difficult, I think, to obtain that sort of iridescence with a paintbrush. So overall the specimen is not natural, but it's not a 'fake' aqua aura.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 17, 2012 04:24AM
Thank you, Steve, that was EXACTLY what I was trying to figure out!
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 17, 2012 04:44PM
Dammit, I hate buying painted stuff when I'm trying to buy coated stuff.

The beauty and variety of nature's bounty is endless, but it's never enough, is it?

I swear, the older I get, the weirder this world gets.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 17, 2012 07:25PM
us    
Tim Jokela Jr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dammit, I hate buying painted stuff when I'm
> trying to buy coated stuff.
>
> The beauty and variety of nature's bounty is
> endless, but it's never enough, is it?
>
> I swear, the older I get, the weirder this world
> gets.


Kali,

Please disregard insensitive and flippant remarks like these. This type of disrespectful attitude reflects poorly on Mindat and the hobby in general, but thankfully the hobby is filled in its majority by helpful and respectful people who offer assistance, support and education to fellow hobbyists.

I'm glad your question was answered adequately. Mindat is about education, not ridicule.

Cheers,

Jim
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 17, 2012 08:37PM
Tim,
I sympathies with you. We even sell some of these items. We even have some of them made from agate "cabs" with drusy quartz. I originally stayed away from them, but customers kept asking for them. We say exactly what they are but they eventually find their way to ebay and described in all kinds of ridiculous ways. After buying and selling a few zeolites from India that had been "painted/tinted" at the begging of one of our good old time suppliers, we finally drew the line and said no more of that kind of stuff. It causes too much confusion and hard feelings down the line.

It seems that humans are never satisfied with things the way they are. We are always diddling around trying to make things better especially if we can get paid for it. We all trim specimens, washing and cleaning them in different ways. Others putting silicon spray on them and filling in cracks with plastic and a lot of other things. Where you draw the line is pretty much up to the individual. Ladies use make up and there is even make up for guys now. Its depressing, but that's the way things are. We can try and change them, but you can make yourself crazy if you chase it too far.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 18, 2012 07:32AM
Rock, I plan to buy the $2400 benitoite in your inventory and have it coated with indium or titanium by the vapor deposition process. It will look so pretty.
avatar Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 18, 2012 09:08AM
Ahh! another convert.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 18, 2012 02:01PM
us    
Rock,

I would hope you wouldn't "sympathize" with anyone who ridicules people on this site (or anywhere for that matter). Having personal opinions is fine, but expressing them in a manner that disrespects others should be immediately confronted here.

What culture and values does Mindat stand for I wonder?


Cheers,

Jim
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 18, 2012 02:21PM
Jim, interpreting nuances of emotion in the written word is always harder than in face-to-face conversation, but I think you're being a bit hard on Tim. I did not see in his words any personal ridicule of anyone, but rather just an interjection of humour into the conversation. Acceptable and welcome, in my opinion, although I understand that others may interpret it differently.
Cheers,
Alfredo
AJMI
Re: Trying to figure out if I have a fake
August 18, 2012 03:04PM
I agree with Alfredo Petrov's post - I don't see Tim Jokela Jr's comment as insensitive or flippant, just humorous.
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.

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