Tibetan Herkimer Diamonds?!?!?! Sounds like a Fat LIE!!

This is one heck of a sleezy marketing ploy! I feel sorry for the people who get tricked into buying stuff like this and thinking it's better because the cheapskate dealer says it's 'Tibetan'- what a load.

[cgi.ebay.com]

One has to wonder why we don't have a locality for double-terminated quartz xls in Tibet listed here at Mindat? - I should think that if the monks have been mining such a site it would be known...

But, basically, I'm with you: FRAUD! Pure and simple...

Alan

Somehow, the "crystal vibration" people think Tibet is more sacred than the rest of the world. So, put "tibetan" in front of anything you have, add some fine sounding, high spirited babble about chakras and energies, and bingo!!! Increased sales. It may be crap, but from a business point of view, it sells.

"Tibetan Quartz has a very high vibrational spiritual energy!!"

and my head already begins to walk in circles across the surface of the moon ...
I wonder what has to be going on in someone's head who believes this /)"=§)(§")$/%

Ditto for "Tibetan tektites".

Chinese Quartz just doesn't sound as good, does it? :)

Oh - I KNOW why they do it. But it is still fraud; and if the wrong person(s) get stung by this sort of baloney it could result in prison time for the perpetrator. I mean, there is a legal difference between "marketing" and "fraud" - and this definitely crosses the line!

KOR!

Alan

This of course assumes you could prove that those things aren't from Tibet. Quartz being everywhere, good luck (I do of course agree that this is absurd).

I share Alan's sentiment, but unfortunately legal action against this type of fraud is unlikely to succeed; consumer education is the only defense. (The Budweiser brewery in Budweis, Bohemia, thinks that labelling a beer made in the USA "Budweiser" is a fraud, but I heard their legal actions got nowhere.)

Hi Alfredo

I'll let you in on one of my "deep dark secrets": I watch the judge shows on TV now and then. (Probably more than is good for me... :~} ) To date, I have seen several eBay sellers brought in by unhappy customers for various reasons. And to date I have yet to see an eBay vendor win against the complaintent...

That's just small claims level stuff - but it works if you can locate the perp and drag them into court. Judges are harder to scam than us jaded rockhounds! :~}

Alas, I fear you are right when it comes to criminal level prosecution. The prosecutors can't be bothered with such small potatoes. - It'd take a class-action civil suit with a high scandal profile to get the criminal system off its duff and doing something about it. Maybe they'd take on eBay - but not any of its vendors...

Cheers!

Alan

Al

Hello Alfredo;

Concerning Budweiser, the two breweries continue to duke it out in courts around the world. Some countries such as Germany have given preference to the Czech version, some such as the UK allow both, while others such as our home country have sided with the american brewer, forcing the real Budweiser to market its product under a different name.

The name Budweiser referes to a geographical location in the Czech Republic where the beer style originated, similar to the Champagne region of France, known for the creation of fizzy wine. Similar also to Herkimer New York, which produces transparent, doubly terminatred quartz crystals known as "Herkimer Diamonds". I am sure that transparent doubly terminated quartz crystals are found elsewhere, perhaps even in Tibet. Is it appropriate, however, to use the name "Herkimer" to describe specimens that did not originate from Herkimer New York? Personally, I don't think so. Is it worth pursuing the issue of possible misrepresentation or false advertising with e-bay? Depends on how much time one has to waste trying to make a point.

Hi Jesse,

Thanks for the update on the Budweiser wars!

Unfortunately, I fear the term "Herkimer diamond" has slowly become a generic term for that style of crystal, and will be as impossible to eradicate as the misuse of the name "aspirin". So many of the ones on sale around the world aren't from Herkimer and, of course, were never diamonds in the first place, so we have a doubly misleading name (so the original Herkimer people hardly have a right to complain!).

Cheers,
Alfredo

Hello guys! You try to argue a Tibetan Herkimer DIAMOND is 'fake' because it is not from Tibet or maybe it is, but then it certainly isn't the muy sacred Herkimer. As long as it is accepted to use the term Diamond for Quartz 'for traditional reasons' and 'because we all know', I would not go to small-claims court for it not being Tibetan!

An additional beer note: The 'Budweiser' question hinges on it being a geographic designation (like Herkimer) and all Budweiser should (say those who believe so) be produced in Budweis (Czech Republic). This follows suit on the (long) European discussion about regional products: Champagne must be produce in Champagne/France (others are sparkling wines), port must be produced in Portugal, feta must be produced in Greece (Danish dairies got in trouble for that), etc. Logically 'Budweiser' must be produced in 'Budweis' (old German name). That one just might stick in the European Union - otherwise champagne, port, feta, ... will fall too.
It gets tricky when we look at pilsner, which is used as a generic term for non-descript, industrial beer in Europe. However, some people - say brewers of Pilsner Urquell (owned by South African Breweries, no less!) - argue that pilsner should be brewed in Pilsen. If Budweiser (Czech) wins, we may soon loose the accepted term for 75% of the world's beer. But, hey, if we have been calling Quartz 'Diamond' for so long time, we deserve no better than being told to mend our way.

Claus

____________________________________________________________________________
Claus Hedegaard
Google me to find me!

Well, I suppose we could take the somewhat cynical attitude that the phrase "truth in advertising" is an oxymoron. But then, I'm sure you recall the "pink emeralds" that were heavily marketed at Tucson a few years ago. Just the tip of the iceberg in stretching the truth, I'm afraid. In the end, the only real defense against misrepresentations like this is a good education.

At least the Germans have the courtesy to alter the name somewhat to "Pils". But we're splitting hairs. I think the only really important names for beer are "good" and "bad".

cheers,
Jesse

Jeremy Zolan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is one heck of a sleezy marketing ploy! I
> feel sorry for the people who get tricked into
> buying stuff like this and thinking it's better
> because the cheapskate dealer says it's 'Tibetan'-
> what a load.
>
> [cgi.ebay.com]
> -Quartz-Crystal-Bracelet_W0QQitemZ290012962147QQih
> Z019QQcategoryZ102500QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ
> ViewItem#ebayphotohosting


I find this funny because one of my favorite sellers on eBay (tibetanbeads.com) sometimes lists Herkimer Diamonds. But I think she said they come from somewhere in the eastern US?? She has some listed on her website now also.

It makes me wonder if someone buys their beads from "Tibetanbeads.com" on eBay, do they think all the beads come from Tibet? And then just embellish and embellish to make their stuff sound more important? I sell lots of jewelry at the Anchorage (AK) Saturday market, some of it clearly labeled "Peru" or "Navajo" and I still get people asking if I made it...

[www.asianbeads.com]

Well, I did some research and there actually is a new deposit of Herkimer-like quartz found in Szechuan Province, China,but it would be incorrect to call the specimens Herks although the geology is very much the same (Some crystals even had hydrocarbon inclusions).

Alan Plante Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One has to wonder why we don't have a locality for
> double-terminated quartz xls in Tibet listed here
> at Mindat? - I should think that if the monks have
> been mining such a site it would be known...
>


Why not, the Mindat database is very very far from being complete and years old extraction areas/mines are still not listed here.

Jeremy: do you have a ref. for this Chinese deposit?

No I don't, otherwise I would have added it. I forget the name of the dealer, I saw them at the Springfield Show but if I see more of these crystals, I will ask about them and add the locality.