Ebay sellers listing minerals without mine or location

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2007 01:59PM by Craig Mercer.

That is not the only problem,some of them take there time shipping minerals.

Is it really ebay's responsibility ? surely that rests between seller & buyer ?
I sell minerals on ebay with details in the listing of the location but I do not send labels with the specimen.

You're absolutely right - it's not ebay's job to police this. But still, as a general matter, if I'm buying a $100 specimen on ebay, I would kind of expect a label to come with it, and if not I would think the dealer selling it was kind of an amateur. However, if I'm buying a $5 Arkansas quartz cluster, I wouldn't really expect that to come with a label.

When you buy a specimen on ebay do not expect to get any more information on locality than is already in the description. If it says "from Brazil", don't complain if the seller doesn't know where after you've bought it. If a dealer knows an accurate location then they'll put this in the description.

Jolyon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 01:02PM by Jolyon Ralph.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2007 01:59PM by Craig Mercer.

One must bear in mind very few ebay sellers have been to the localities outside of their country & therefore relying on the supplier.

Howdy All,

They say that those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!
I sell specimens on e-bay, but if I don't know enough about them to supply the correct infomation and a label, I don't list them.
Sorry, but I don't think you can say the same Craig, your listings often don't have localities, or 'guessed' ones.
Yes I can proove it. A friend in the UK bought what he was told was a Pyromorphite from Dundas Tasmania, when in fact it was from Blackwoods Open cut area of Broken Hill N.S.W.
Sorry to point out this, but.....

Cheers Mark.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2007 01:58PM by Craig Mercer.

I have sold over 1000 minerals on Ebay and have NEVER shipped a mineral without a detailed label often including historical tracking of the mineral. When collected, by whom, etc. I get many expressions of appreciation for the info provided. However, I have also received items purchased, rattling around in a box with no label of any type. For this reason I seldom buy from Ebay, except from those I have found to be reliable. It is not Ebay's responsibility to police the details of mineral buying - You can control it. If the information is not there don't buy - only the suckers will buy thinking the information will magically appear with the specimen. For those who buy from the unscrupulous types - P.T. Barnum spoke the true words! .....Hal Prior



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 02:17PM by Jolyon Ralph.

Craig,
If the locale isn't listed in the aucton, and it's important for you know it (and I agree, it is VERY important, scietifically speaking), then why bid on the item at all?

Your hardly the first to complain about ebay auctions here, but frankly I get a little tired of all the ebay bashing done here when in reality the majority of these issues are primarily the fault of poor buying practices. If you don't know what your buying, then don't buy until you do. If you plan to learn as you buy, fine, but don't gripe about sellers when the errors in your own judgement or lack of judgement, is really to blame.

I've almost never had these kind of issues on ebay, even after 1000+ transactions over many years (a great resource for all kinds of materials which rarely get offered at shows). I'm sure there are "bums" out there, but I've rarely found myself doing business with one of them and I don't think it's just a matter of luck.

If acurate identities and locality info are important issues for you, first step would be to avoid sellers who regularly make metaphysical claims, and MOST asian dealers. It is primarily in these sectors of the mineral market that I find the majority of these kind of inaccuracies on mineral auctions. It is to be expected as these issues simply aren't major concerns for either sellers or buyers in these markets. It's not fair to hold these kind of dealers to the rigorous standards one would expect from scientifically based dealers, anymore than it's fair for them to expect the science based mineral enthusiasts to buy into metaphysical claims or place value based soley on aspects of feng shui.

Beyond this major hurdle, I would suggest you check a sellers other auction items for errors (a bad sign), their feedback, previous auctions and the "type" of buyers who've done business with them before. I will note that even the best of the scientificly based mineral dealers can make an error every now and again, and if they HAVE made one, most will "bend over backwards" to make it right with a buyer, because these issues ARE very important to them as well!.

Doing your own homework on a piece your interested in is a good idea. Although I know that isn't always possible, the galleries here are getting larger everyday, and it serves as a excellent source for visual comparison.

MRH

Hi again,

I just went to remove my e-bay name after reading Joylon's comment on another thread, but he beat me to it!
Just for the record for those who may have seen it, I wasn't trying to advertise my listing, rather just making sure that I was totally transparent with my comments and that I was willing to be scrutinised if need be!
Hope everyone is having a good day/night.

Cheers Mark.

I don't buy on eBay (mother Plante never bore such a foolish son...) but if I did I would treat unlabeled offers the same way I treat unlabeled specimens at a rock shop or mineral show: I would keep my wallet in my pocket and leave the rocks right where they are...

Now, it's true that there are a lot people out there who only view rocks, minerals, and fossils as aesthetic items - they couldn't care less where they come from so long as they are "pretty". And I have no objection to dealers who wish to serve that sector of the market. I simply don't buy from such dealers - they are not serving the sector of the market I'm a member of.

The problem is that for someone just starting out in this hobby it can be difficult to figure out which sector they belong to - and which dealers cater to their sector. The learning curve is pretty steep, though, and in no time new folks have figured out how the game is played.

So far as people buying unlabeled material goes, I think that if someone does so they have no cause to get upset about it - no one forced them to. And if a label is promised and doesn't arrive, why then, don't buy from that dealer again! I sure wouldn't...

Alan

If you bought a specimen on eBay and then figured out that it was actually from a different better location, came with an old label and looked better than the picture...well, some wouldn't keep that in their memory banks longer than the $25.00 rock you bought that showed up a week late with no label.

eBay. It is an AUCTION site. While I agree that there does need to be some basic guidelines as far as fakes and whatnot, geesh...it's an AUCTION site!

And what's up with the whole speed up of shipping? How many of you remember the days of "Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery"? How come it is now "You need to send out my item TOMORROW". I used to list a LOT of auctions on eBay, but I just took over a month off and now I'm just getting rid of some bulk stuff before I move. But I doubt I'll ever really do eBay again, because wrapping rocks destroys my soul. I've got proof. I can't deal with this rapidly rotating world, spinning faster and faster. I'd like to live a little bit before I die and I certainly don't want to live for wrapping up rocks!

If you want to KNOW what you are buying and feel SAFE...well, there are DOZENS AND DOZENS of quality mineral dealers that have their own WEBSITES, set up at SHOWS and those are the kind of people you should expect to have next to no problems with! Buy from them if eBay makes you unhappy.

Everybody likes to bash Ebay, but I see very little differance between buying on Ebay and at shows, except that the selection is better on Ebay. If you go to a show, there will be good dealers and bad, same on Ebay. As a buyer, you are actually better armed to find out which is which on Ebay. Look at feedback, not whether they have positives or negatives, this is more or less meaningless, look to see how many repeat customers they have had, noone gos back to someone who has screwed them. As has been noted previously, if they don't include locality in the description and you care, ask, and if they don't have it, don't bid. If you buy like an idiot, you will get screwed, just as fast at a show as on Ebay. If you are new to buying on Ebay, I'm more than happy to share the IDs of sellers who I trust, and I'm sure others who buy on ebay would be happy to do this for you as well.

Chris

Let me just say that I LOVE E-BAY!!! No it's not perfect... and on occasion I don't receive exactally what I expected, but on the whole I think it is one of the best assets of our age. Having a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week rockshop at my disposal for "window shopping", education and buying is like a gift from heaven. The list of friends and acquaintances I've made and the additions to my collections are amazing.
I think the secret to a satisfactory relationship on e-bay is good communication. If labels are important to you than by all means write to the sellers if they don't specifically mention including one. The same thing goes for locations, sizes, associated minerals, or any other particulars that are of a concern.

Bob

PS...

I think that this tread didn't belong in this category anyway.

No label does not equal a Fake, a Fraud, or a Marketing Ploy.

Perhaps General? Or Scrapbook? Or out the window.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2007 01:58PM by Craig Mercer.

Justin is right: selling a mineral without a label doesn't turn a natural mineral into a *fake* mineral; and it doesn't seem to be a very good *marketing ploy* either (one would think the seller could sell more minerals WITH labels than without); so that leaves *fraud* - and technically it's only fraud if the seller promised a label and then didn't send it.

"False descriptions", as Craig mentions, might indeed be fraud, and are another matter entirely from "no label", if the seller deliberately gave a false description, but I fear that in many cases it is not deliberate but just ignorance on the part of the seller, who is just parroting whatever was told to him by the previous owner, without any investigation.

"Caveat emptor" is the best advice. Most people in this hobby are willing to help beginners, so why not ask more experienced people for counsel before rushing out to buy an expensive rock? (that's my advice whether buying at shows, from websites or on e-bay)

Craig,

Quite simply, if you bought something without a label, why not ask for one? If the seller does not provide one, why continue to do business with them? Likewise, if the seller does not pack things well, don't buy from them again.

As Justin noted, just because there is no label does not make it a Fake, a Fraud, or a Marketing Ploy. An incorrect item description is not necessarily fraud, people make mistakes. If the incorrect description or locality was intentional, it is fraud.

And finally, buy your minerals from a reputable dealer. Those that stand behind their material and will accept returns if you are not happy are certainly more deserving of your mineral dollars.

Regards,

Chris

I only bought 3 specimens EVER on ebay because there were pictures of the labels with the minerals and the feedback on the seller was 100%. The deals were also exceptional. Still, as a collector who is VERY particular about locality labeling, I only try to do business with dealers who I know personally. I don't give my money to just anyone, especially for something like a locality that can be faked so easily. Be cautious, be safe; ONLY BUY FROM RELIABLE DEALERS!

-Jeremy Zolan