Smithsonite pseudomorph after Calcite

Hello!
Can somebody give me an idea of the sale price of the pseudomorph from Santa Eulalia Chihuahua The size is 5 x 5 x 4cm.
Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2009 06:58AM by Rock Currier.

If that's what it is, its a fine specimen. I don't think I have ever seen anything like that from Santa Eulalia. I would like to hear what Peter McGaw says about it. I think he know as much about the specimens from there as anyone. By todays standards I would think a specimen like that might bring three or four thousand dollars from the right customers. The problem of course is finding the right customer. If you look at the prices that Rob Lavinsky regularly gets for his stuff I think that two or three thousand would be no problem at all.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

Thanks for these valuable help

I'm sure your correct with the ID Sergio, but I personally can't see it being worth anywhere near 3 or 4k, not now-not ever. I would think between $200 and $500 would be closer to the mark.

Craig





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 05:53AM by Craig Mercer.

Hello,

These were available in the late 1990s from the San Antonio mine in the Santa Eulalia district. I've seen some with individual crystals to over 2 inches---I don't know how large these got or if they were associated with any additional species. They weren't common and I think that they were from a limited find or series of finds. You might find a specialist in Mexican minerals that would pay a great deal for this but I think a few hundred dollars might be the best one could hope for absent a rabid and well-healed collector with an inordinate fondness for all things Mexican.
It looks like a fine specimen but I think it rather smallish for the upper price suggested by Rock. Of course, I've been seeing thumbnails at shows with P.O.R written on the label!! We all have stories of outlandish prices paid for ordinary specimens. This is not to say that this piece is ordinary--one would be hard-pressed to find one these days, in my opinion. Still, I tell everyone about a $10 PALE Mexican creedite that sold for $700 to an unsuspecting collector!

Good find Sergio,
Dana

In my opinion, the price of this fine specimen depends on how hard it is to find another one and how badly a collector wants it.If it's not hard to get another one like it for i.e. 400$ then this is your price. But if it(similar specimens) used to be sold for 300-400 and it is now gone, then the price can be at the 2-3k level as Rock suggested.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 07:51AM by Christos Spiromitros.

Thanks everybody!
Does anybody have any information of a specialist in Mexican Minerals?

thanks for that help again

With all due respect to Sergio and the other contributors, I am thinking $35-$75 for this specimen.
Bob

Hi Sergio,


Peter Megaw of Tucson, AZ or Evan Jones of Scottsdale, AZ are both very knowledgeable regarding Mexican minerals. Peter is recognized as THE authority regarding the geology and mineralogy of the Santa Eulalia district. Evan formerly had a superb Mexican collection that has largely been dismantled so that he could concentrate on his Bisbee and Arizona collections. I would try to contact either---you may find their e-mail address or contact information online somewhere.
I personally agree with Robert's last posting; however, I feel that the Mexican specialist might be prompted to pay $200-300 for the specimen. An overly zealous specialist or those collectors that will deal only with high-end dealers might pay considerably more. Many of us that have been collecting and dealing for some time find it incredible that some collectors will pass on an $80 adamite (for example) in one room of a relatively obscure dealer and then dish out $500 for one not as nice in the room of a very well-known dealer---it happens all the time! I don't get it, but more power to those dealers that can benefit from this odd phenomenon!


Best regards,
Dana

Sergio, Right now, you are probably wondering whether some of the people responding to your question might be idiots, since their estimates range from $35 to $4,000! Let me assure you that all the people who have responded so far are knowledgeable, and none of them are idiots! This is a good illustration of how difficult it is to put a price on mineral specimens, and why this whole messageboard must be considered meaningless unless interpreted properly. Dana is quite correct that the environment a mineral is sold in, and who is doing the selling, and whom they know, are often more important factors in price realized than the actual qualities of the specimen! As one well-known dealer of high-quality specimens told me, "My real job is singing and dancing for the customers". In other words, mineral specimens (other than gemstones and precious metals) have no intrinsic value - you can't eat them or wear them - it is to some degree the social context and presentation that awaken in the customer the desire to possess this piece. How accomplished you are at doing this will eventually decide the price you get.

(I should add that the difference here between the highest and lowest estimates, more than 1:100, is a bit unusual; generally knowledgeable dealers might differ from each other by only 1:10.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 09:48PM by Alfredo Petrov.

The difference between the lowest and highest estimate would be correct if not for the first gross overvaluation. I think an estimate of between $50-$500 should be seen as reasonable, with all things considered including HIGH END DEALER HYPE, or singing and dancing, whatever you like to call it.

Craig.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2009 10:53PM by Craig Mercer.

I think that if it has not occurred to people on this forum, they might consider that some of the pictures posted as attachments on Moneygrubbers may not belong to the people asking for an evaluation. Some of these images may be plucked from a dealers web site. It has been my observation that sometimes the prices quoted here sometimes seem to me to be below what I believe the current market value of the specimens might be and I wonder if this might be used by some to try and get loball values for specimens with which to beat the dealer over the head with. Just a thought and it probably does dealers some good to be beaten of the head from time to time. Myself included.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

I'm was not aware of this Rock. Could you give an example of one of these specimens you speak of ??

Craig.

This one perhaps?

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

I see !! I had no idea, although you obviously did, hence the over estimation. Mindat of late seems to be showing a great conflict of interests.

Craig



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2009 01:37AM by Craig Mercer.

I gave my honest opinion about the value of the specimen and at the time had no idea of who actually had the specimen. I sort of assumed that Sergio had it. but learned later that he did not, but I am not sure that makes any difference at all. The truth is a pretty powerful thing and if you stick to that it will take you a long way. I would not suggest that anyone alter their evaluations here to accommodate any particular dealer. If they did, then the value of this forum would be diminished. If you think a price is crazy come out and say so. Everyone is entitles to their opinion, but civil discourse demands of us all that we be polite about it and at least agree to disagree.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

I just send the piece to Rob Lavinsky, he wil put the piece on the auction, and let's see what people say
Thanks to all of you, for take the time to make your valuable coments

I have another question!
is the image of Craig Mercer,the same Pseudomorph we are talking abouth



Thanks

Gentlemen...thanks for your kind words. This is my first time on the moneygrubber thread, so please chalk it up to ignorance and forgive me if I inadvertently transgress protocols...like getting geological instead of focusing on filthy lucre.

Here is the best example that I know of these ivory colored psuedos...as I remember this came out about 10 years ago. It measures 9 inches (23 cm) across and the largest ex-calcites are 3 inches (7.5 cm) long. THIS one I would value near Rock's end of the spectrum...and something well in the lower quoted price range seems appropriate for the one being bandied about.

Note that this is just one of a series of similar finds from a series of smithsonite-lined caves lying on the 8th level of the San Antonio Mine. Although I have not seen that many of these ivory colored ones (perhaps 300 pieces), yellow and brown and greenish-gray have come out in relative abundance. The San Antonio orebody is essentially a vertical slab of sulfide bearing skarn, up to 70m wide, completely oxidized from the surface to about 400m below the surface, and unoxidized for at least 400m below that. These pseudomorphs occur on the 8th level of the mine, right at the water table, where oxidation stops. These appear to form when fluids carrying zinc dissolved from overlying oxidizing mineralization encountered vugs filled with scalenohedral calcite crystals (deposited late during sulfide ore deposition) and cannibalized the carbonate from the calcite to form smithsonite. Interestingly, in some vugs this affected calcites that grew on euhedral sulfides, but did not affect the luster of the sulfides (the smith ps calcite on arsenopyrite specimen in the picture is about 3/4" (2 cm) across.

Other caves in the area have produced bright blue smithsonites rivaling those from the Kelly, many associated with cerussite, anglesite, hemimorphite, rosasite and aurichalcite. Unfortunately, I have not seen any blue pseudos!

Sorry, unfamiliar with attachment procedure...here's the big one