Tourmaline Camp Robin

Interesting--$75 to $500-600 so far.

Hi John,

Interesting as you said, do you have an opinion? the cheap $75, the average $200, or the expensive $600?

Finally I got very interesting info, thanks to all, but still not clear about the value!

In fact, as I said, I would like to have a price considering it is malagasy and compared to other malagasy toumalines. If someone has enough experience in malagasy material instead of always comparing to afgan ones...

Some more pricing maybe?

Thanks!

I sent the pics and stats to 3 of my peers in the trade. All 3 have handled, bought, and sold more tourmaline than most anyone I know. All 3, I am sure, many of you know on here.
One said $100-$150
another said $200-$300
and another said $85-$120

LOL..not much of a change and still a wild swing in idea of price...LOL..
Any way you see it it's still a nice undamaged crystal. Thanks for posting!

ok, so maybe i overshot a bit. I think part of the issue is that you have folks here who select crystals from large bins of Afghan stuff (usually for sale by the gram), and then people who are used to buying specimens at shows.

The by-the-gram people underestimate (probably based on their experience with Afghan material) and the specimen people (like me) probably overestimate. Whatever the fair value is, I will point out that malagasy tourmaline is generally not sold in large bins for $2-$5/ gram.

I've been buying in both Peshawar and Madagascar, and I am generally a pretty hard bargainer. These days, you would need pretty good luck to get a 7x 1.8 cm tourmaline for $75 in either of those countries as a non-local, when purchasing as a specimen. If you search through sacks of gem rough, maybe you can get lucky-- personally i dont do that because there is limited time and it is better to pay a small premium than to waste the whole day looking for a complete crystal in a huge sack(which is usually not found)..... But to echo Julien, i think it is a mistake to compare Afghan to Malagasy, particularly when one virtually available by the 50 kg sack and the other is not..

You can only charge a premium for rarity if there is a sufficient number of people who are prepared to pay a premium for minerals from this location.

Unfortunately, there are very few people who specialise in minerals of madagascar who would pay the premium in price for this crystal over a comparable Peshawar piece.

Tourmaline, unless it shows unusual colour or crystal form, simply won't get much of a premium from non-popular localities.

Well, thanks all for interest.

Jason, thanks for the additional pricing. it is more clear now, even if finally I will have the best idea once the specimen will be in Europe, and finally sold. But at least I've an opinion.

Ibrahim, what you said reveals a huge difference between Mada and Afghanistan. Jason, this specimen weights 32g, so $75 retail price will make a $2.34/g (less than 25000fmg/g!!!!). Well, I'm not sure if you ever been in Mada, but as a local, I can tell you that find a specimen like this for this price is just impossible, even if you buy 100 like this at the same time. If you can choose your tourmaline in Afghanistan or Brazil from 50 or 100kg batches, I imagine that these batches are from a unique owner. Which finally, will make your selection easier and quicker, AND cheaper, as one unique owner, or just a few . I don't know, I've never been there, just imagination.

In Mada, you deal with dozens, or more miners all wanting to sell their findings before going back to work. 100g by 100g batches maximum, rarely more, in "popular" mines like Ikalamavony or Ibity. I mean, people work hard to bring you nice tourmaline in dangerous conditions. For a specimen like that, if the real price is really $75, that will mean that I will have to buy it let say $0.5/g to simplify, plus customs in Mada, plus customs in Paris, plus flight ticket, plus...to earn about nothing. And more important than that, do you really want to pay about $20 only to the guy who brings you such a specimen from earth? This guy is not a machine and work for his own, his salary depends on buyers! And even after that, people say that these afgahan tourmaline are more expensive although the work is easier for dealers/buyers (50kg batches) and tourmaline in larger quantities. This is definitely not a fair price, and in this case this would be an ethically borderline business.

So this is what I wanted to say, and people should have this in mind before pricing, specimens are not arriving in Tucson or other shows by the same "motorway"...and this has a minimum price, from the miner to the final collecter. Comparisons should be made with comparable things, a tourmaline from Afghanistan seems to be, for these reasons, very different from its malagasy cousin...

Lol, it's all relative, if the locals average $1 per day, as a billion people on this earth do, then giving a guy $20 for a rock seems pretty fair.

Madagascar tourmies all seem vastly over valued considering how common the mineral is, but that's the market for ya.

Pertinent to this specimen, it's just not that interesting because of the color! Nobody is going to be buying it by the gram cos it's not gem rough.

T

Julien, in my opinion public discussion of mineral prices is an almost useless activity, because prices can vary by an order of magnitude, or even more, depending on where it is being offered, who is selling it, and to whom it is being offered.

In "free market" cultures we tend to believe that the "law of supply and demand" applies to all objects sold, including mineral specimens, but that is complete nonsense. If it were true, there would not be so much diversity in prices for similar specimens, which can vary by a factor of more than x10 or x20. The famous "law of supply and demand" works only when buyer and seller are both well-informed about the supply, and about actual prices being paid (not just price asked). But the mineral specimen market is what economists call an "inefficient" market, one characteristic of which is a lack of transparency, so buyers (and sellers) often don't know how big the supply is, or what others are charging for similar specimens, or even whether other sellers are really charging the prices on their labels or just some fraction of that price (or worse, "POR" - price on request). The lack of information distorts the efficient operation of simple "supply and demand". This market "inefficiency" either makes mineral collecting more challenging and exciting, or more irritating and frustrating, depending on your personality.

Personal tastes are a huge factor too... When we buy diesel, gold bullion or frozen fried potatoes, personal taste is not a big issue, but in mineral specimens it is everything. Some people will disparage your tourmaline as being not interesting, and they will not buy it even if you put only $50 on the label. But somewhere there is someone who will fall in love with it - perhaps they enjoyed a wonderful holiday in Madagascar once, or the faint pastel colour reminds them of their first girlfriend's eye shadow, whatever; they will love it, pay you $500 and walk away smiling. So you are asking the wrong question here - Don't ask us what is its value, ask yourself "Do I need to sell it quickly, or do I have the patience to wait for the customer who will really love it?"

Alfredo Petrov Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Julien, in my opinion public discussion of mineral
> prices is an almost useless activity, because
> prices can vary by an order of magnitude, or even
> more, depending on where it is being offered, who
> is selling it, and to whom it is being offered.
>
> In "free market" cultures we tend to believe that
> the "law of supply and demand" applies to all
> objects sold, including mineral specimens, but
> that is complete nonsense. If it were true, there
> would not be so much diversity in prices for
> similar specimens, which can vary by a factor of
> more than x10 or x20. The famous "law of supply
> and demand" works only when buyer and seller are
> both well-informed about the supply, and about
> actual prices being paid (not just price asked).
> But the mineral specimen market is what economists
> call an "inefficient" market, one characteristic
> of which is a lack of transparency, so buyers (and
> sellers) often don't know how big the supply is,
> or what others are charging for similar specimens,
> or even whether other sellers are really charging
> the prices on their labels or just some fraction
> of that price (or worse, "POR" - price on
> request). The lack of information distorts the
> efficient operation of simple "supply and demand".
> This market "inefficiency" either makes mineral
> collecting more challenging and exciting, or more
> irritating and frustrating, depending on your
> personality.
>
> Personal tastes are a huge factor too... When we
> buy diesel, gold bullion or frozen fried potatoes,
> personal taste is not a big issue, but in mineral
> specimens it is everything. Some people will
> disparage your tourmaline as being not
> interesting, and they will not buy it even if you
> put only $50 on the label. But somewhere there is
> someone who will fall in love with it - perhaps
> they enjoyed a wonderful holiday in Madagascar
> once, or the faint pastel colour reminds them of
> their first girlfriend's eye shadow, whatever;
> they will love it, pay you $500 and walk away
> smiling. So you are asking the wrong question here
> - Don't ask us what is its value, ask yourself "Do
> I need to sell it quickly, or do I have the
> patience to wait for the customer who will really
> love it?"


Brillant post, Al

Wow, 32 grams..we were guessing around 20...you must have some fairly large fingers ;) ;)

as a side note..I wouldn't necessarily call it a "premium" but I do notice Namibian tourmalines fetch some pretty high prices compared to other locales and particlarly african. I know part of this is due to scarcity there...you can buy everything else in namibia cheap but try to buy tourmalines there..sheesh