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Generalspelling of barite

15th May 2012 03:23 UTCD.D. Trent

barite is spelled with an "i" not a "y" .

15th May 2012 03:26 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

D.D., Barite with an "i" is american english; baryte with a "y" is british english, and also the official variant.

15th May 2012 06:21 UTCRobert W. E. Neilson

Alfredo is correct. Baryte is the historically correct spelling and still commonly used by by British collectors. Barite is the American spelling popularised and semi-validated by Dana, Fleischer et al.

My personal opinion is the American version is one of my pet hates. I believe the historical spelling is the correct one and not what American publications attempt to change it to, however influential they may be.

15th May 2012 07:39 UTCAJMI

I think that the way you spell it (barite or baryte) really depends on which sources you consider to be "official".


Originally, the name was derived from the Greek word "barus" which means "heavy". (http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/barite/)


From what I understand, the Mineralogical Society of America (MSA) spells it as "barite" and according to the barite/baryte Wiki, the "i" spelling is "more often used in modern scientific journals". For instance, the 2,681 scientific journals (such as Minerals Engineering, Mining Science and Technology, Geoscience Frontiers, Comptes Rendus Geoscience, Chemical Geology, International Journal of Mineral Processing, etc.) which are published by subsidiaries of the Netherlands-based Elsevier company spell it as "barite".


As well, popular magazines (such as Rock & Gem Magazine) and popular books (such as The Complete Guide to Rocks & Minerals) also spell it as "barite".


Likewise, numerous websites such as webmineral.com, usgs.gov, minerals.net, galleries.com, geology.com, mii.org (Mineral Information Institute), ima-na.org (Industrial Minerals Association), etc. and numerous dictionary sources (dictionary.com, merriam-webster.com, britannica.com, etc.) also spell it as "barite" primarily - sometimes providing the alternative spelling of "baryte" as secondary.


Whereas fewer websites such as mindat.org spell it primarily as "baryte". (A Google search for "barite" yielded 2,710,000 hits while a Google search for "baryte" yielded 462,000 - thus showing that the "i" spelling is used far more frequently online than the "y" spelling.)


Also, from 1959-1978 the International Mineralogical Association (IMA) spelled it as "barite" and then changed the spelling to "baryte" in 1978 - amid considerable controversy (many questioned the IMA's logic behind the change).


So if the IMA (or mindat.org) or other references are your preferred official source, or you're British/European, then spell it as "baryte". But if the MSA or one of the majority of other publications/websites/journals/etc. are your preferred official source, and you're American or Canadian, then spell it as "barite".


Either way, everyone who reads English will still likely know what mineral you're talking about. :c)

15th May 2012 08:10 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Thanks, AJMI.

A flexible attitude solves many problems. Mental rigidity causes distress. :)-D

15th May 2012 08:11 UTCAlan Barnes (2)

Just because something is common, doesn't mean that it is right. The "ite" suffix of mineral names is from the Greek word "lithos" meaning "stone" and on that part I can see why the American spelling might be deemed to be correct. However, I am with Robert on this one because the British spelling is historical and had been used for decades before the IMA and all the mineralogical journals were even thought of. Fleischer's Glossary and all other journals should revert to calling it "baryte" so that we can keep a bit of history alive. In response to AJMI's post though, what would be done with the spelling in Fleischer's Glossary - you couldn't have two spellings for one mineral?


Alan

15th May 2012 08:24 UTCTimothy Greenland

Why not Alan?


"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson...


Personally, I prefer Baryte (I learnt the Greek word as 'Baryos' not 'Barus', but transiteration between different alphabets always causes problems), but I use Barite when it is required by an editor or other responsible person. Its all BaSO4 anyway!


Cheers


Tim

15th May 2012 08:46 UTCRock Currier Expert

I spell it barite when I am pissed of at the Brits and the IMA. The rest of the time I spell it baryte.

15th May 2012 09:03 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Just wondering HOW often this will be discussed again...?


We already had the discussion 4 years ago and 1 year ago:

http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,6,81454,81454#msg-81454

http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,7,221690,221690#msg-221690

15th May 2012 09:17 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Well, the first time, 4 years ago, it degenerated into a discussion of beer :-(

15th May 2012 09:40 UTCRock Currier Expert

We will have this same discussion another 457 times.

15th May 2012 09:49 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

We never get the same argument over eudialyte/eudialite though!

15th May 2012 09:54 UTCGeorge Eric Stanley Curtis

HI,

Just to add to the conversation I noticed that particle physicists spell Baryon with a 'Y', and this is from the root -

The name "baryon" comes from the Greek word for "heavy" (βαρύς, barys), because, at the time of their naming, most known elementary particles had lower masses than the baryons. (Wiki)


So perhaps to be in keeping with the american way of spelling what is after all Greek, not English, we should ask the physicists to spell Baryon with an 'i' as in Barion.


Oh, and by the way, what colour/color is Barytes/Baryte/Barite ?


Personally I don't think it matters as long as we all understand what is meant. :)-D


Eric (or should that be Erik?)

15th May 2012 10:15 UTCCharles Helm

I just assumed that since Jolyon was British that this website referenced the British spelling. All the Barites in my collection have the Americanized spelling. If one day I am fortunate to add ones with lables using the British spelling I will leave the labels unmolested. I think the British spelling adds a certain mystic to an old friend. So here is my vote for a big who cares. To quote a famous Brit "That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" . So let's start a thread on bad smelling minerals. Maybe we can all agree on that.... or maybe not.

15th May 2012 10:42 UTCGeorge Eric Stanley Curtis

To resolve all confusion see this site --

http://www.barytes.org/


They seem to be the experts, and include Americans, - Quote -
The Barytes Association was formed in October 2000 with 8 founder members from Europe, North America, Africa and India.


Eric

15th May 2012 13:14 UTCDan Fountain

Alfredo Petrov Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, the first time, 4 years ago, it degenerated

> into a discussion of beer :-(


Degenerated? Elevated, you mean! :)-D


Since I live in the colonies, I spell it barite. If I move across the pond, I will change all my labels to baryte.

15th May 2012 14:09 UTCDavid K. Joyce Expert

A number of years ago, I wrote an article about the "Calcite Vein-Dykes" (not the vain dykes) of the Grenville Geological Province for publication in Rocks and Minerals magazine. I felt insulted at the time to have my "Canadian" English modified by the editors so as to fit the American Standards of the magazine. Thus, Dykes became Dikes, colour became color, etc. I got over it but still use my "Canadian English" spelling on my website and in any other writing where I can get away with it. Having said that, I have always spelled barite as barite without a qualm. It is all in our heads and reflects what we learned early on, I guess. Heck, We still call titanite "sphene" most of the time around these parts.


David K. Joyce

15th May 2012 14:38 UTCSteven Kittleson

Hello,


While we're at it, why do you "Brits" always have to substitute our Zs with your Ss...LOL? Here we go........


To absent friends...in memory...still bright.

15th May 2012 15:51 UTCJim Ferraiolo

Can't belyeve I actualli looked at thys thread....

15th May 2012 16:54 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather

I'm English, and I spell it as Barite, because that is the way I learned it when I lived in Norway, but as long as people know what you are writing about it doesn't really matter if you write it Barytes or Barite it is all the same mineral!


Spencer.

15th May 2012 18:08 UTCStephen Moreton Expert

I'm all for consistency and fonetik spelling, so I prefer barite. On this occasion I'm with the Americans.

15th May 2012 19:54 UTCHarjo Neutkens Manager

Seeing the word Baryte or Barite appearing on the messageboard makes me feel like a spermwhale about to crash into a planet "Oh no, not again!!"

15th May 2012 20:13 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Stephen,


Are you for 'consistency' or 'konsistensi'?

16th May 2012 01:29 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

All this discussion just because someone who isn't even a registered member of Mindat can't spell baryte correctly.

Maybe for the benefit of all mankind this thread should elevate itself to beer!! :-D

16th May 2012 01:41 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Paul, I'll drink to that :)-D

16th May 2012 01:55 UTCRock Currier Expert

Yes, bottoms up everyone! After a few more we just won't care anymore.

16th May 2012 03:00 UTCSteve Stuart Expert

BEERITE!

16th May 2012 03:24 UTCKeith Wood

We'll get our beer at the bar, right?

16th May 2012 04:45 UTCRick Dalrymple Expert

I must admit, I like the historical way better. But I do find myself spelling it the Americanized way because that is how I learned to spell it originally.

16th May 2012 04:47 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Poor Uwe. He must be tearing his hair out by now. ;-)

But, Keith, no more punishment please (even though I have to admit that was a good one). :-)

16th May 2012 08:00 UTCDon Windeler

Thought I'd weigh in so as to have someone from the SF Bay write.


Sounds like there's a slight preference for the old school, English, conservative convention... so maybe we bear right.


Or all just follow the IMA, like sheep? Baaa... right?


(Sorry, couldn't resist. :-D)


D.

16th May 2012 08:19 UTCPeter Lyckberg Expert

Everyone must of course spell it Baryt as we do in Sweden :)

And the element Al is Aluminium! Anyone writing Uranum instead of Uranium?


Before this degenerates to another Beer discussion you should know that Beer is öl in Swedish but do not tell this to ze Dzermans.

I sink wee also discussed Indigolite as in Indigo blue! We all lack some knowledge so we may zink it should be spelled differently.


It is not more correct because a majority do it! 2/3 of the human population will follow the crowd.

16th May 2012 08:40 UTCPeter Chin Expert

Wasn't this question resolved by the the Treaty of Paris (1783)?????

16th May 2012 14:26 UTCAthanasios Ziros

Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_843


So, The greek word Βαρύτης becomes Varytis or Varyte


So lets discuss about the V issue :-)

16th May 2012 14:58 UTCOwen Lewis

Peter Chin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wasn't this question resolved by the the Treaty of

> Paris (1783)?????


No, earlier that that. I believe it was one of the prime terms of the Peace of Westphalia that concluded the 30 Year's War and was directly responsible for the ruination of the thousand-year old Holy Roman Empire and the balkanisation of the German lands.


There's nothing new in the world. 250 years ago, Dean Swift wrote amusingly of scientist fighting bitterly over whether a boiled egg should be opened at the big end or at the little end. I'm a confirmed Little Endian myself. One's day is simply not the same without that delicious eggspoonful of perfectly formed solidified albumen that it the first joy of each day for us Little Endians. It is surely basic human right, assured in the USA with constitutional protection as the 'Pursuit of Happiness'...

16th May 2012 15:09 UTCIan Jones Expert

In your hearts, you all know it's baryte really:)-D

16th May 2012 15:21 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Actually heavy spar has precedence in naming (1774 vs 1800).

16th May 2012 17:25 UTCDean Allum Expert

@ futur barite go 2 br8 lol

cu Al

16th May 2012 17:58 UTCUwe Ludwig

Hi Peter Lyckberg,


the Dzermans know that the "Bier" is called öl in Sweden. That is not wrong for us because a good beer (or öl) runs through the throat like "Öl" (German for oil).


Uwe

17th May 2012 12:36 UTCRobert W. E. Neilson

Instead of beer we could revive another hot potato...Haematite Vs Hematite.

Not only is the American variant of this a historical corruption but a complete linguistic corruption too. The Greek "haem" deriving from the word for blood as opposed to "hem" for half. Hence why I will continue to use the traditional spelling in the face of oppostion from all the major American publications.

17th May 2012 14:40 UTCMichael Hatskel

Don't you all know that BaSO4 occurs in nature in two modifications - baright and bawrong? :-) (or is it barong? why bother with the "w"?! - it makes it sound like 'boron')


Historical names deserve respect and memory but aren't necessarily used forever. Modernization happens sometimes.

Why not settle on the knowledge that there are two different spellings that can be found in the literature and neither is superior to the other?


If we go back 150-200 years, there are so many nice names in the mineralogical literature ... and no sign of the modern craze with the multitude of phosphates, amphiboles, sulfosalts, complex alkaline silicates, etc. ... and not so much American influence in the English-language publications ... mostly the British ;-)

Those were the times! "Rule, Britannia! rule the pages!" But leave barite and aluminum alone, please...


P.S. And please don't force us in America to convert into using SI units either... :-D

17th May 2012 15:41 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Well, thank you all for your opinions, but if you want to change the spelling of the mineral baryte, write to the IMA, not to mindat!


Jolyon

18th May 2012 10:21 UTCRock Currier Expert

Yes, we can do that, but it is much more fun to torment baryte people here.

3rd Jul 2012 12:53 UTCPeter Lyckberg Expert

Hämatit it is ; ) Much more practical to have a specific letter ä instead of ae or ö instead of oe and Uwe, I invite you for an öl in Munchen if we see each other!

3rd Jul 2012 18:46 UTCDanny Jones Expert

Well now that we have solved the barite/baryte issue and are well on the way to solving the worlds problems with beer let's through into the beer mash my pet peeve with celestite/celestine..... No wonder the world can never be at peace if we can agree how to spell!

3rd Jul 2012 20:10 UTCJesse Fisher Expert

I'm really not sure just why people feel compelled to waist their time (time and time again) arguing about trivial stuff like this. I think we all accept that commonly used names are spelled differently in different languages. I think most collectors will recognize that barite = baryte = barit = barytine. There are numerous other examples of how American English diverges from English English that rarely receive any comment at all, except from my spell-checker. Perhaps we can spend out time and energies worrying about bigger issues, such as the ever-increasing price of a pint of beer, or why the English national football team never seems to do very well.


And as an aside, "barytes" (pronounced "bear-rite-ease") is the term for commercial barite/baryte ore, analogous to the use of "fluorspar" to denote commercially mined fluorite.


Cheers!

6th Jul 2012 18:11 UTCDanny Jones Expert

Jesse - Now you have done it! "English National FOOTBALL Team"! I don't know what the English play but it is not Football!

6th Jul 2012 19:17 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Yes it looks nothing like real football, Canadian Football!!! In the US they play a modified version of Canadian Football. I think the English mean soccer or rugby when they talk of "football".:-S

6th Jul 2012 21:27 UTCUwe Ludwig

Danny and Rob please, let an European know why the North Americans name their game "football"? I watched one time such a game and realised that the most time the "subject" (is definitely not a ball) is carried by the hand.


And why allow the English to name our gentle and real football soccer?


Uwe Ludwig

9th Jul 2012 13:52 UTCAnonymous User

As Google said both are correct :D
 
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