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Benitoite

Posted by Rock Currier  
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 03:35AM
The Best Minerals benitoite first draft is finished.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Matteo Chinellato August 09, 2012 04:31AM
and this? http://www.mindat.org/photo-107628.html

Mindat Page

http://www.mindat.org/user-5018.html


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)
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AJMI August 09, 2012 05:16AM
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why are there so many similar-looking pictures of California benitoite?
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Tomasz Praszkier August 09, 2012 08:09AM
Rock,
I have no problem to use text from The Minerals newspaper but please give at th beginning full name, citation and link to the pdf at the end....
Tomek

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"Spirifer" Geological Society
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 10:34AM
Matteo,
Where possible be use images that show the entire specimen not just close up parts of one.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 10:42AM
AGMI

There are so many similar looking pictures because those are the kind the locality produces and because we have many pictures of fine specimens from there. We have tried to provide as broad a selection of them as possible. This is by far the most prolific locality for the mineral. Where possible, for the localities in Best Minerals that are the most prolific we try and use many images from the locality as a way of emphasis that the locality is very prolific. Look at the smithsonites from Tsumeb in the Best Minerals Smithsonite article and you will see what I mean.

If you can point me to images of benitoite that are not similar looking we would certainly consider adding them to the article. If you were writing the article, what kind of pictures would you have selected and how many?

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 10:46AM by Rock Currier.
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 10:44AM
Tomek,
At the end of the article, your company name is mentioned as the original publisher of the article and a link given to it.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Tomasz Praszkier August 09, 2012 10:52AM
That wasn't the question about company name. If you reprint article from for example MinRec and also use their figures would be obvious to give information from where it comes from? Isn't it? I know that our journal is for free but we put the same effort to put it together as other editors...

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"Spirifer" Geological Society
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 11:21AM
Thomas,
What is it you would like us to do?

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Tomasz Praszkier August 09, 2012 11:32AM
Just please delete company name and put name of the journal and number of the issue from which it came - classic citation.

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"Spirifer" Geological Society
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Matteo Chinellato August 09, 2012 11:36AM
Rock Currier Wrote:
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> Matteo,
> Where possible be use images that show the entire
> specimen not just close up parts of one.


I have only of the particular, not of the complete specimen, I not love take photos of complete specimens, the crystals go lost on the view. But this photo are used in the panel located at the new Oak Flat public campground at Clear Creek (near the northwestern edge of the New Idria serpentine mass).

Mindat Page

http://www.mindat.org/user-5018.html


Attrezzatura e tecnica sono solo l'inizio. È il fotografo che conta più di tutto. (John Hedgecoe)
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 11:38AM
Thomas,
I will gladly do that. How would you like the reference to read: Mineral Newspaper, Issue 3, 2011? Or perhaps Minerals, Issue 3, 2011?

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 11:47AM
Your image is of a nice benitoite specimen but it is not particularly outstanding and I would be reluctant to include it in the article when so many other more significant specimens are available for inclusion in the article. If the people at the Oak Flat public campground at Clear Creek choose to use that image they are certainly free to do so. One wonders why they chose to use an image where the background of the image is so out of focus. It may be that they didn't want to dash the hopes of prospective benitoite collectors by showing them what a really good specimen of benitoite looks like.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Tomasz Praszkier August 09, 2012 11:47AM
just Minerals is OK. Thanks!

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"Spirifer" Geological Society
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 11:49AM
Tomasz,
Done!

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Simone Citon August 09, 2012 12:35PM
No one "Star of David", what a pity...

Simone Citon
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Tomasz Praszkier August 09, 2012 01:28PM
Thanks!

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"Spirifer" Geological Society
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Steve Hardinger August 09, 2012 04:55PM
Worth mentioning that this specimen http://www.mindat.org/photo-465120.html has been called the Sushi Plate?
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 06:29PM
No star of David. Usually they are pretty small, and we don't have any images of them in our database. We rarely use images of specimens in the best minerals articles unless they are in Mindat's database. But you are right, one should be in the article. Ill see if I can scare up an image of one or two good ones to put into the article.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2012 06:43PM by Rock Currier.
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Rock Currier August 09, 2012 06:34PM
Steve,
The Sushi Plate is already in the article. In fact it is the first one shown in the images of Benitoite from the Gem Mine if you don't count the benitoite used as a lead in to the Benitoite article.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Ronald J. Pellar August 09, 2012 11:01PM
Rock,

How about a picture of the xtal model in your collection?

Ron
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AJMI August 10, 2012 03:26AM
If you were writing the article, what kind of pictures would you have selected and how many?

I would select only a few images (four at most) that best represent a particular mineral form from a particular mineral mine. The more different mineral forms there are, obviously the more mineral pictures you'd have - with the best four per mineral form still being the goal. I think that having more than four images, all showing the same mineral form, is just simply unnecessary.

Also, I think that if you want to show that a mine is prolific, then state in the text that a mine is prolific - don't simply pile on more redundant pictures.

Regarding the Benitoite page specifically, in my opinion I don't think there needs to be so many similar-looking images of blue benitoite and black natrolite crystals on a white massive natrolite base. I mean really, I don't think a person needs to see more than four great images of these to get a feel for what the benitoite/natrolite specimens from the Dallas Gem Mine are like.
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Rock Currier August 10, 2012 09:39AM
Ron,
Hmm...that's an interesting idea. Let me think about that.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Rock Currier August 10, 2012 10:15AM
AJMI,
I am forced to disagree with you on having so few specimens exhibited for a prolific locality for a particular species. As collectors we spend our lifes looking as specimens, and in the case of Benitoite from the Gem Mine or Smithsonites from Tsumeb, we see thousands of specimens of different sizes and associations, luster and transparency and in the case of smithsonite, colors. From this experience we come to form personal internal standards of what the best specimens from a locality may look like and the possible associations and sizes etc that we can expect to encounter. No one is going to be able to form valid opinions on these matters after seeing only four specimens of benitoite. I want to show enough images so that people can at least start to form their own opinions which will hopefully have some validity. Showing so many fine specimens can be disturbing to some people and who think that we are elitists operating at the expense of "real people". There is some validity in this it may account for the relatively small and declining number of subscribers of the Mineralogical Record compared to other amateur magazines.

However, the Mindat image database includes more average and poor specimens of minerals than anyone can look at in months of intensive viewing. If people want to look at these images they may spend any amount of time doing so, and I encourage them to do so, because the world is not made of of only fine specimens and looking at these images will help them develop their own personal internal standards and make them better able to appreciate how rare and unusual really fine specimens are. When we started best minerals some people suggested that it be given a more prominent place on Mindat and not at the last forum on the Message board way down on the end after even the Foreign Language forum. I wanted it put there for two reasons. The first was that I was worried that it would bring much more attention and comments and suggestions than I would be able to deal with and second that I realized that trying to force people to look only at fine specimens (putting them in peoples face by giving them a more prominent place on Mindat) would cause resentment in some people and that the remote location for Best Minerals on Mindat would hopefully minimize that resentment.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2012 08:18AM by Rock Currier.
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Tim Jokela Jr August 10, 2012 06:23PM
Rock!

I truly appreciate what you're doing for this site. I'm pretty sure that most folks have no idea how many hundreds of hours you're putting in; but I do, and think it's awesome. This site is an example of the internet at it's best. So THANKS!

Tim Jokela Jr.
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Rob Woodside August 10, 2012 06:27PM
Tim's right!!! Thanks so much Rock!!!
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Mineralogical Research Company August 10, 2012 10:54PM
Rock,

Both Tim and Rob beat me to it, but I still have to say thanks for the wonderul presentation of Benitoite. Any who conplain should volunteer to do the next "Best Mineral" presentation. Your efforts are most appreciated and I am constantly amazed at how productive you are, in light of having a second job running Jewel Tunnel. thumbs up

Gene
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph August 10, 2012 11:00PM
This section of mindat is slowly, but surely, turning into an incredible and amazing resource. Thank you Rock, not only for your hard work on this, but for persuading me to run with it - after all it was your idea. I may have had a few concerns along the way about the way it was being done, but I decided to mostly stay hands-off, and all my concerns were proven entirely wrong.

Thank you also to everyone else who has contributed. I wish I had more time to contribute myself to it too.

Jolyon
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AJMI August 11, 2012 02:43AM
Judging by the replies that were posted after mine, I think my previous post may have been misinterpreted.

It was not meant to be any sort of attack on Rock or his (or anyone else's) efforts regarding the Best Mineral pages.

I was asked by Rock, in one of his previous posts, what kind of pictures I would have selected and how many. I was simply responding to that question and giving my own personal opinions. There was no intent on my part to denigrate Rock's work, only to share my own personal opinions.

Next time I will try to be more clear and concise on that point.

And I apologize to anyone (especially to Rock!) who I may have offended.

-AJMI
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Rock Currier August 11, 2012 08:38AM
AJMI,
I didn't think you were criticizing any work I had done on Benitoite and I don't think anyone else did either. You know I didn't do it all by myself and have had plenty of help from other capable people that were brave enough to step up and help along the way. You expressed your honest opinion and though I didn't agree with your limitation on how many images should be included, I wanted to know what you would have rather seen. It is only through honest exchanges like this that Best Minerals has grown and gotten better, and it is still not in its final format. Each of the Best Minerals authors brings to the table different views and strengths and each of their contributions have their own flavor. And each of them have at various time communicated with me and others, listening to suggestions and asking each other well how about if we do it this way or that way and eventually coming to a consensus and creating unique articles which will in time they or others will revise, correct and add to.

AJMI, I am not done with you yet. Now you need to explain the philosophy about limiting the images to just a few. I explained above why I oppose such limitations and I think your reasons for limiting them will be more interesting and instructive than your simple expressed desire to limit them. You are not entirely alone in this. David Von Bargen when he writes an article limits his images much more than others Best Minerals authors. Tell us why we should restrict the images on Best Minerals.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Jason Evans August 11, 2012 11:16AM
When are we going to see the best Azeztulite article, looking forward to that!
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Rock Currier August 11, 2012 09:32PM
Jason,
I would think that the Azeztulite article will be written sometime after the IMA approves the name, and I suspect that might be substantially after the hinges of hell freeze over.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Rock Currier August 11, 2012 09:35PM
Jason,
I would think that the Azeztulite article will be written sometime after the IMA approves the name, and I suspect that might be substantially after the hinges of hell freeze over. However I would welcome a glossary entry that would include a definition and picture(s) if the definition would relate it to the or some of the IMA mineral names. Would you care to prepare a glossary entry for it?

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Rock Currier August 18, 2012 09:32AM
A nice picture of some of the Benitoite "star of David" twins has been added to the article.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Jim Bean August 20, 2012 12:59AM
Thanks, Rock. Great update!
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Jason Evans August 20, 2012 02:59PM
There was a really nice star of david benitote on eBay last week, a little above my price range though!
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Stephanie Martin August 20, 2012 03:46PM
Good news Jason, it didn't sell, so it has been relisted. So for only $34,999.99 plus $200 for shipping this could be yours. It is a star, but it is opaque rather than gemmy so perhaps you can negotiate. You would think they would throw in free shipping for that price. confused smiley

cheers,
stephanie smiling smiley
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