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Improving Mindat.orgSwedisch locality Ranea should be Råneå

28th Oct 2006 15:28 UTCjohan k

Since I see that your system manages the swedish å - why not get it right - the schorl-photos updated yesterday are from Råneå not Ranea, i.e. ranea should be deleted and replaced by the correct spelling Råneå.

cheers

28th Oct 2006 17:06 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

I did some editing on it...

Regards

Peter

28th Oct 2006 21:00 UTCjohan k

Peter,

If you not delete RANEA you really ought to switch place of the two spellings - as ranea is completly wrong, a misspelling probably made on purpose by someone not aware that the system accepts the swedish Ã¥, Ã¤ and Ã¶. (I do this myself often on the internet and spell frequently my street address - hÃ¥gavÃ¤gen - hagavagen, just to avoid hassle and have to repeat everything a second time without the swedish letters).

If you search sweden here on mindat and check under norrbotten and vÃ¤sterbotten - you'll find some equivalent coastal towns: luleÃ…, piteÃ…, skellefteÃ…

cheers

28th Oct 2006 21:29 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Hi Johan,

the reason I kept Ranea as the main name might be me misunderstanding the manual. I've understod it that names should be "translated" to English in the main locality string, and then the original name with it's original letters in the space desigened for this. Have been editing a lot of Norwegian localities this way to... It might be wrong? Using Ã¦, Ã¸ and Ã¥ have sometimes made a search for localities with these letters difficult, in particularly using Ã¦...

Regards

Peter

28th Oct 2006 22:11 UTCjohan k

I am not at all familiar with the manual but think you are out on deep water here. I see (and understand) that several names are translated when it comes to having "gruva/gruvan/(sten)brott" in the name and that these translate into "mine" and "quarry". If you check the swedish localities here at mindat - you frequently see the swedish letters Ã¥, Ã¤ and Ã¶ in them, and no attempts to "translate" these letters.

Or are you really suggesting that when we now, finally, have an international forum where LÃ¥ngban actually is spelt LÃ…ngban should go back to the old "international" Langban

28th Oct 2006 22:53 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

I prefere personaly to se Långban be written as Långban, just like I like Sagåsen better than Sagasen... I might be on deep water, trying to translate... An input from our English spaking friends would be helpful now

28th Oct 2006 23:07 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

One thing to keep in mind is that not all browsers will show these diacritically marked letters correctly, so some users would see really strange symbols instead of the name you want to show.

29th Oct 2006 03:33 UTCAlan Plante

Hi Peter

I think that there WAS a problem with the search engine turning up spellings with diacritical marks when the names were entered into the search engine without them - but I believe "WAS" is the operative word, that the problem has been fixed.

To test that, you could try changing one of the site names to the correct spelling, then go back to the main page and type the name in the search window without the diacritical marks - see if the system comes up with the correct locality. If it does, you'll know the problem is fixed and can go ahead and change listings to their correct spellings. (If not, stick with the method you have been using.)

Maybe someone who knows for sure will reply - but it might be quicker to try the above test... :~}

Cheers!

Alan

29th Oct 2006 08:23 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

Hi Alan,

I did what you suggested with the Norwegian locality "Kjølsrød in Bjørkedalen" and it worked without problems. It is an advantage that mindat can work with correct spellings for languages using the latin alphabet as basis - including not only "diacritical marks" but also whan special letters are being used as in this case.

cheers !

Knut

29th Oct 2006 11:01 UTCjohan k

let's drop our diacritical marks from now and introduce english spelling, here's the first contribution for the new list:

raw-knee-awe

cheers

29th Oct 2006 11:12 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I love it! Finally I know how to pronounce Ranea in Swedish. Now if all of our contributors would follow Johan's example and indicate to us how to pronounce their "strange" (to us) locality names... but in the locality description box please, not the title line :-))

29th Oct 2006 11:40 UTCKnut Eldjarn 🌟 Manager

I think Alfredo`s suggestion would be difficult without introducing the phonetic alphabet..

Having corrected the spelling of one Norwegian locality introduced in mindat by me ( Kjølsrød in Bjørkedalen ), I still see the problem - not just solved by mindat accepting these unusual letter - for many users letters like å, ø,æ will not be available on their keyboards - so even if they should have the correctly spelled name on i.e. a label. they will not be able to enter this into mindat ! But it seems by selecting a "similar" letter i.e. a, o or ae the right locality will turn up. Is this how the search engine in mindat works with all such "special" letters derived from the latin alphabet ?

Knut

29th Oct 2006 12:11 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

lol Johan!

Here is one for you all to test: Search for "Setre", then for "Sætre"...

Peter

29th Oct 2006 12:25 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Johan,

have alook at RÃ¥neÃ¥ now, I did a little changing, keeping the names without the Ã¥'s in parenthesis, with the correct spelled name first.

I know it works well using "a" instead of "Ã¥" and likewise with "o" for "Ã¸", but still I think it's important to enter these alternative names as well. I'm pretty shure that there is several labels for Scandinavian localities, printed out not using Ã¦, Ã¸ and Ã¥ around the world. For the reciver of these minerals/labels an alternative spelling wil be helpful, and might help us avoiding to many dubble entred localities here in Mindat as well...

Regards

Peter

29th Oct 2006 15:33 UTCjohan k

hullaw (hallÃ¥) everybody,

I think it is a point to show the right spelling in the head entry. But i guess the computer people have a few problems to solve. I don't believe in writing out the alternative spellings, rather one should receive "hits" also for accepted spelling alternatives, and I believe this could be achieved without actually writing out the alternative spellings. Thus "Ã¶", "Å“", "o", "oe" will - if applicable - receive hits for words containing scandinavian diacritics "Ã¶" or "Å“". Likewise for the alternatives "aa" "ao" "a" for "Ã¥". And "ae" "Ã¦" "Ã¤" "e" and possibly "a" for words containing "Ã¦" or "Ã¤".

Hope you get my point. Sorry if I forgot any other possiblities or other odd letters - for example there should be a similar logic for the german "Ã¼".

I checked rÃ¥neÃ¥ now and it looks much better. But in relation to what I suggested above the search system is too alowing now, as searching for "rÃ¥neÃ¥" also result in the mediterRANEAn. I am sure the computer wizards can fix this. And I am also certain that you wont have to sit and write out all alternative spellings Peter.

hay daw (hej dÃ¥)

29th Oct 2006 15:48 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Johan, we don't put every possible spelling variation into our locality heirarchies, only the ones which we've seen in references, museum labels, dealer labels, etc - Things which a user might search for.

29th Oct 2006 16:14 UTCjohan k

I understand - but with what I am suggesting you wouldn't have to put any but the right spelling - the other ones would be searchable as well. See you friday!?

hay daw!

29th Oct 2006 16:15 UTCAlan Plante

The correct sequence for a Mindat locality header is:

"Correct spelling (Alternate spelling 1; Alternate spelling 2; Alternate locality name 1; Alternate locality name 2; etc...),"

Note the use of ";" between spellings in parentheses - not a ",". It has to be that way so the heirarchy works properly. - Also note the "," following the parentheses; which is also required.

As Alfredo noted, only alternate spellings in common use in references or on labels should be entered. If another alternative is found to be in use later on it can be added then - no need to try to get all possible ones in from the start.

Cheers!

Alan

29th Oct 2006 16:45 UTCPeter Andresen Expert

Hi all,

fixed it!

Cheers

Peter

God jakt i Mynsjen ;)

29th Oct 2006 16:55 UTCjohan k

sharpen up peter!

see you in mynntjänn!

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