Re: Baryte, United Kingdom

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Baryte, United Kingdom
BaSO4 Orthorhombic



The United Kingdom hosts one of the most famous barite localities in the world, the West Cumberland Iron Ore Field. But as in many mineralized areas of the world, barite crystals are widespread in the UK, some of them quite attractive. Because of the vast amount of written material and number of photographs available, The Best of Species pages for barite from the UK are divided into the following major "sections" for ease of organization: Northern England (excluding the West Cumberland Iron Ore Field); the West Cumberland Iron Ore Field; Midlands and the South; Scotland; and finally, Wales. (We can add Northern Ireland if photos of good specimens surface).
There has been some discussion of "Best of Species" parameters. We will try to take a broad approach, but because barite is so common, if specimens from a locality do not form fairly sharp crystals or have some other very interesting feature we should probably exclude that locality. Since barite is so widespread there will not be quite as much need to focus on micromount specimens as for some other species. Finally, in the great baryte/barite debate, in English most (including authors of two recent major reference works on British minerals) use the "second" approved spelling, barite, but for consistency on Mindat and as a courtesy to our hosts we will try to use baryte for all headings.

Baryte, England, Northern England

There are a number of good specimen localities for barite in the north, most in the Northern Pennine Orefield. For a very good and up-to-date overview of all northern England specimen localities for all species, with photos and useful maps, see Symes, R.F. and Young, B., Minerals of Northern England, published in 2008 by National Museums of Scotland in association with the Natural History Museum, London. An essential book for any collector who has an interest in minerals from the area.

Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Cumbria, Northern Pennine Orefield, Dun Fel, Silverband



Usually shown on labels as near the village of Knock (which it is), the Silverband Mine is one of the many small mines in the area exploited since at least the middle ages, primarily for lead, often with silver as a byproduct. Silverband was actually reopened for barite from 1939-1963 (Mines and Minerals of Northern England, F. Symes & B. Young). Excellent barite crystals are in collections around the world from Silverband and the nearby Dufton mine. These are usually labeled "Westmoreland." Westmorland disappeared in 1972 when (roughly speaking) it was combined with Cumberland to form Cumbria. Similar barite specimens of lesser quality occur at the less well-known narby Threlkeld Side mine, (not to be confused with the much more significant Threlkeld mine and quarry much further north).
Barites from Silverband most often occur as tabular crystals, although a prismatic habit is not uncommon. They are usually not as large as those from Dufton Fel (note: there has been some disagreement with this) and are clear or milky to white in color, with the rare example showing a light gold tinge. Surprisingly few occur with galena; the one pictured below has a long list of well-known British owners.

Baryte, 4 cm high	© Rob Lavinsky

Baryte 6.3 cm high	© Dan & Diana Weinrich Minerals

The well-known specimen shown at the top of this article is currently owned by Cal Graeber; the habit change one can see in the crystal is described in a paper by Seager & Davidson.

Seager, A.F. & Davidson, W.F., 1952, Changes in habit during the growth of baryte crystals from the north of England.- Miner. Mag., 29, 885-894.


Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Cumbria, Northern Pennine Orefield, Dufton Fell Mine

Specimens from this mine, usually labeled with the former county name, Westmorland, are clear and sometimes quite large. It reopened as a barite mine in 1882 and the dumps were mined in the 1980s, according to Symes and Young, who note one specimen over 500 kg in the British Museum of Natural History.

Baryte, Dufton Fel, 10 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Cumbria, North Pennines, Scordale, Hilton Mine
Cumbria, North Pennines, Scordale, Murton Mine

The Hilton and Murton Mines exploited the same veins on opposite sides of a small creek for lead, initially, and were reopened later for barite. The Hilton is one of the better known fluorite localities in the world, and these often occur on or with white bladed cockscomb barite. See Jesse Fisher's article Rocks & Minerals (below) for a wonderful overview and pictures.

The Hilton also produces barite specimens of fairly high quality, nearly clear to white thin tabular blades in groups or cockscomb groups.

Baryte, Hilton Mine, 13 cm	© 2008 Jesse Fisher

The Murton Mine is less well known but the barites specimens can be quite nice. David Clayton says that based on his father's experience (in 1973) it may be that the nicest clear barite specimens labeled Hilton are actually from Murton.

Baryte, Murton Mine, 8 cm	© JGC

Fisher, Jesse, Rocks & Minerals, Vol 84 p. 114, The Hilton Mine, Scordale, Cumbria, England


Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Northumberland, Tyne Valley, Settlingstones Mine

Hard up against Hadrian's Wall in the far north, Settlingstones is considered an outlying part of the Northern Pennine Orefield by Symes and Young. It was initially mined for lead, but then witherite, for which it became famous as a mine and also for specimens. The barites usually have a distinctive chisel shape.




Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

North Yorkshire, North Pennines, Arkengarthdale, Northside Mines, Dam Rigg Level

A number of specimens from here have been available lately on the market, with almost "scepter" chisel shaped crystals to just under 2 cm; some are very white, others show some translucence. They occur in close packed plates.

Baryte, Dam Rigg, 16 cm	© Dr Stephen Moreton

Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

North Yorkshire, North Pennines, Wensleydale, Wetgrooves Mine

A very old open pit and underground lead locality. Specimens are usually clear small tabular blades, sometimes on fluorite, but they can occur in larger brown-dark gold crystals. We welcome better pictures of better specimens.

Baryte, 7 cm	© HW

Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

North Yorkshire, North Pennines, Swaledale, Old Gang Mines

The Old Gang Smelt Mill is a very scenic historic mining site (see Symes and Young). The extensive dumps from the "Hard Level" are probably the source for many specimens, which resemble lace coral, and some when cleaned can be a sparkling white.

Baryte, Old Gang, 6 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Durham, North Pennines, Teesdale, Cow Green Mine (Area)

A reservoir now covers this barite mine. Most specimens were not spectacular, but Symes and Young (p. 135) have a picture of an attractive 20 cm specimen with sharp grey (somewhat green in the picture) translucent tabular crystals in a group with preferential overgrowths of white barite, from the Russell Collection, British Musuem. Can anybody provide a photo of an attractive specimen from Cow Green?


Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Durham, North Pennines, Lunedale, Closehouse Mine

Near the old Lunehead mine, Closehouse was exploited for barite from the 1770s until the end of the 20th century, occasionally providing clear, tabular crystals to several cm in plates. These are uncommon on the market today outside of the UK.




Baryte, Northern England, The Northern Pennine Orefield

Cumbria, North Pennines, Alston Moor District, Nent Valley, Nentsberry Haggs Mine

Many old barite specimens labeled "Alston Moor" from the historic lead mining district of that name may be from the Nenthead complex of mines; "Alston Moor" became a catchall label, like Frizington or Egremont, and the exact mine is often not known. The famous witherite alterations (mostly surface) to barite from Nentsberry Haggs are much sought after, as are pseudomorphs of barite after alstonite. In general, be wary of simple "Alston Moor" on barite labels; you may never know the exact locality. In addition to Symes and Young, David Green and Peter Briscoe provide an overview of Alston Moor in UK Journal of Mines & Minerals (UKJMM), No. 22 pages 33-38 Twenty Years in Minerals, Northern England. Barite also occurs at Nentsberry Haggs, but good crystals from other mines are hard to pin down. The National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh has several nice barites labeled "Alston Moor."

Baryte, 9 cm	© HW

The Nentsbury Hagg witherite to barite "pseudomorphs" have a pretty shallow barite layer, but hey, it's barite (or even baryte)! And sharp.




Baryte, England, Northern England

Baryte, Northern England, The Lake District

Cumbria, Braithwaite District, Coledale, Force Crag Mine

Metal mining in the Lake District is documented from the beginning of the 16th century. Symes and Young note that mining at Force Crag for lead began in 1830, and for barite in 1860. The mine was reopened on and off until 1966, with unsuccessful attempts after that. From 1984 until 1990 Lindsay Greenbank worked the deposit for barite ore and for specimens, making it the last operating metal mine in the district. Good sphalerite specimens were collected, and excellent barites. The best of the barite specimens are fairly large groups of very white tabular crystals. See Symes and Young and also W. Wilson and M. Cooper, Classic Minerals of Northern England: The Lindsay Greenbank Collection, Mineralogical Record, Supplment to Vol 41, January 2010.




Baryte, Northern England, The Lake District

Cumbria, Caldbeck Fells, Dry Gill Mine

The wonderful minerals and mining history of Caldbeck Fells are described in M.P. Cooper's and C. J. Stanley's Minerals of the English Lake District, 1990. The authors note barite is usually unexceptional from the area, and have a picture almost identical to the one below of a good example, barite with mimetite.




Baryte, England, West Cumberland Iron Field

Baryte, UK, England, West Cumberland Iron Field




Other renowned barite localities provide specimens as spectacular as those from the West Cumbrian Iron Ore Fields, but for variety of crystal habit, color and aesthetics in hand specimens only the mines of Maramures in Romania come close to matching these English classics. There are a number of short descriptions of the region and its outstanding specimens of barite, calcite, hematite, fluorite, quartz, aragonite and, to some extent, dolomite and hausmannite, but there was a surprising lack of a comprehensive overview in journals or books aimed at collectors until R.F. Symes' and Brian Young's Minerals of Northern England was published in 2008. The Mineralogical Record Supplement of January – February 2010, Classic Minerals of Northern England: The Lindsay Greenbank Collection is now another excellent reference.

Iron ore mining in the area probably dates from Roman times, and records confirm activity in the 12th century, continuing in one form or another until 1981 (with a small operation after that for some 25 years). The history of collecting in the area with more detail of specific mines can be found in the references and on some of the Mindat locality pages.

After the turn of the (20th) century, specimens were very common on the market. Rock Currier relates the story that "When Bottley’s (ed. note: presumably Gregory, Bottley & Co. at the time), the famous London mineral dealer, moved to new quarters early in the 20th century they had a large number of 'tea crates' full of calcites and barites, although with Cumberland barites, presumably not of the best quality, that were in excess to what could be fitted into the new quarters. The excess was hauled down to the Thames River and thrown in." Alas, good ones today are much sought after, and priced accordingly.

For barite, collectors need to be especially wary of labels. As is the case for many famous localities worldwide, early labels were often quite general, usually in this case just Frizington, Cleator Moor or Egremont, Cumberland. While experts can sometimes match specimens with certain characteristics – habit and color or association – with a particular mine, the best advice from advanced collectors and curators is don't try unless you really know the area and/or consult with others who do. Frizington and Egremont themselves, two distinct villages with different mines, are often mixed up. As noted in Symes and Young, "Exploration for, and exploitation of, the west Cumbrian ore bodies has resulted in the sinking of hundreds of boreholes and shafts. Some confusion can arise over the naming of many of these, with the same shaft commonly acquiring two or more names as mines amalgamated with their neighbors."

Below we look at the various mines and show some examples of good specimens. The general localities "Egremont" and "Frizington" have been retained according to the label on the specimen and as submitted to Mindat, but be aware that these are often not entirely accurate. There are many good photographs of outstanding specimens which are not on Mindat. One should refer to both of the above publications, which feature many outstanding photos of world class specimens.

Informed comments welcome!




Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington


While it seems many fine barite specimens came from the Parkside complex or Mowbray mine, as noted labels rarely lack such specifics, or if they have these details, they were frequently added by a dealer or collector guessing at the locality. These are as-labeled.

Baryte, 10 cm	© 2006, Jesse Fisher

Baryte & Dolomite, 5.5 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte & Hematite, 5.5 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte & Dolomite, 7 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, 8.5 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington, Parkside Mine

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington, Dalmellington Mine

The Dalmellington Iron Company operated the Holebeck mine from 1869 to 1900. Holebeck adjoins Parkside. Dalmellington is usually on labels today as the source of classic, sometimes large, gold or pale yellow elongated prisms. However, knowledgeable British collectors say that Parkside is more likely. They are all part of the same complex, and the Parkside company took over one of the nearby Dalmellington pits. Most of the long, prismatic crystals, especially if yellow or gold, are labeled as Parkside or Dalmellington, but many of the flat tabular crystals also were recovered from here. Some of the elongated crystals below are only labeled "Frizington" but are included here because it seems that habit and color seemed to originate from this mining complex. Parkside seems the most accepted label for specimens just like these.

Baryte, 9.5 cm	© Kristalle and Crys

Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Frizington, Mowbray Mine

The Mowbray mine is the source for many of the more spectacular barite specimens. They are often flat tabular crystals, sometimes with a sawtooth edge, and a light blue of blue green color. Symes and Young note that even in 1930 color change was noted in British Museum pieces from Mowbray. They were originally light yellow or golden, but changed to blue upon exposure to sunlight. Like barites from some other localities (those from Hartsel, Park County, Colorado, USA, for example, and possibly some from Cavnic, Romania) if the blue color fades it can be renewed through exposure to sunlight.

Baryte & Calcite, 9 cm	© www.exceptionalminerals.com

Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Bigrigg

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Bigrigg

There are not many good barites labeled simply "Bigrigg." This one is from the British Museum.



Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Bigrigg

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Bigrigg, Pallaflat Mine

This is the mine in what is considered the Bigrigg area which is known to have produced high quality barite specimen. Some say they are the only decent barite specimens from the West Cumberland Iron Ore Fields to be associated with visible calcite crystals, but there are many other barites with calcite labeled Frizington, so this claim seems unlikely. The barite is usually blue or blue to yellow, with a flat tabular habit, and some of these were recovered in modern times.

Baryte & Calcite, 8 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Cleator Moor

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Cleator Moor

Very few good barite specimens are known from this famous hematite/quartz area. "Cleator Moor" was also used as catchall label for specimens from the iron mines, like Egremont and Frizington, and while there were likely decent barite crystals, labels should be authenticated if possible.


Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont

As noted under Frizington, Egremont was – and still is – a generic label often used for specimens from the West Cumberland Iron Ore Field. It is likely some of the finer barites from old collections labeled as Egremont came from the Frizington mines, and vice-versa. Here are some labeled Egremont.

Baryte, 9.9 cm	© Collectors Edge

Baryte, England, Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont, Florence Mine

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont, Ullcoats Mine

Cumbria, West Cumberland Iron Ore Field, Egremont, Beckermet Mine, Winscales Pit

Ullcoats was the first mine developed in this complex, which was to become the largest in the West Cumberland Ore Field. The Florence mine came later and was eventually connected to Ullcoats. Beckermet and its second shaft (called the Winscales Pit) were very extensive, and they were eventually connected to the Florence and Ullcoats (Symes & Young). The workings are most famous for hematite and fluorite; barite is scarce, but there are a few decent barite specimens. We need better photos, especially of Winscales.

Baryte, Ullcoats, 7.5 cm	© HW

Baryte & Dolomite, Florence, 6.5 cm	© Ian Jones

Baryte, England, Midlands and the South

Derbyshire, Middleton Common, Youlgreave

The best known barite specimens from Derbyshire are not crystals; they are the brown stalactitic material mined for decorative purposes since at least the early 19th century. Nicknamed "Oakstone," sliced across the column and polished these are popular among collectors and non-collectors alike. See William Sarjeant and Trevor Ford, UK Journal of Mines and Minerals (UKJMM), Vol. 12, 1993 "Oakstone and Other Pseudostalactitic Baryte from Derbyshire."

Baryte, 10x9 cm	© J.Ralph 2004

Baryte, England, Midlands and the South

Devon, Sidmouth, Peak Hill

Around 2000 there was renewed interest in specimens recovered after cliff erosion on the beach west of Sidmouth of barite on small white calcite crystals. These had been identified as celestine in the 19th century but are now known to be barite. The definitive article on the locality is in the UKJMM (below) with good photographs. UKJMM No. 29, 2008, had short update. Currently the specimens are recovered from erosion where Peak Hill meets the ocean.

The barite crystals occur as thin tabular blades, sometimes transparent and often yellow, blue or banded with both colors.

Baryte & Calcite, 5 cm specimen	© Bill Dameron

Baryte & Calcite 2.3 cm fov	© Peter Haas

Keith Corrie & David Green, UK Journal of Mines and Minerals (UKJMM), No 23, 2003, "The Barite* and Supposed Celestine from the Triassic Mudstone of Sidmouth, Devon"

*p.s. note spelling


Baryte, England, Midlands and the South

Kent, Isle of Sheppey, Warden Point

See the mindat locality description (click above) for a good overview of this currently producing locality (and, as noted, watch for the currents!). It was described also in Greg and Lettsom in 1858. Barite "roses" to 3 or 4 cm and sprays of needle-like crystals can be found in the cracks in nodules on the beach, and if you are lucky, on a nice contrasting calcite background.

Baryte, 3.5 cm spray	© Lloyd Llewellyn

Baryte, England, Midlands and the South

Somerset, Bridgewater, Cannington, Castle Hill Quarry

Limestone quarry, with at least one very nice barite specimen. Are there more?



Baryte, England, Midlands and the South

Baryte, England, Cornwall

Cornish mines and minerals are so beloved that many only collect this premiere locality. Barite specimens of any size were scarce as hens teeth, however, and few of these were very attractive. There are hundreds of magazine articles and pamphlets on mining history in the region. The best overall reference for collectors is P.G. Embrey, R. F. Symes Minerals of Cornwall and England. They note that barite crystals in the western part of Cornwall were only found at Ale and Cakes and Mount Wellington. Mount Wellington, a 20th century producer, had barite specimens which are "OK," but hey, they are from Cornwall. Ale and Cakes, on the other hand, produced a number of decent crystals. Further east, Wheal Mary Ann gave up the finest of Cornwall barite specimens.


Baryte, England, Cornwall

Cornwall, Gwennap area, Camborne-Redruth-St Day District, Ale and Cakes mine

Very sought after specimens. Also known at one time as Cakes and Ale.

Baryte, 2.3 cm fov	© Peter Haas

Baryte, England, Cornwall

Cornwall, Gwennap area, Camborne-Redruth-St Day District, Mount Wellington Mine

Not usually this attractive (?), this mine produced from 1920s to the 1980s.




Baryte, England, Cornwall

Cornwall, Liskeard District, Menheniot, Wheal Mary Ann

Cornwall's most famous (and likley best) barite specimen, in the British Museum.




Baryte, UK, Scotland

Several metal mining districts in Scotland are renowned for unusual species, particularly Strontian, Wanlockhead and Leadhills. Barite was a common gangue mineral in these mines. With the coming of North Sea oil barite production became more important. Scotland has huge commercial barite deposits, and all three of the above lead-zinc mines reopened for some years to produce barite. Scottish barites from a few localities can be excellent, but the supply of world class specimens is scarce.

An excellent overview of Scottish mineral specimen localities is provided by Hal Currie at his website Minerals of Scotland. See also many of the UK Journal of Mines and Minerals issues and the book Minerals of Scotland: Past and Present, Alec Livingstone, NMS Enterprises, 2003. For Wanlockhead and Leadhills see the reference cited below. As always, Tindle's Minerals of Britain and Ireland is essential.


Baryte, UK, Scotland

Scotland, Dumfries & Galloway, Wanlockhead, New Glencrieff Mine

The two small villages of Wanlockhead and Leadhills are less than a mile apart, and worked basically the same veins for lead and zinc, but the mines of the two have never been connected, and they even had their own processing facilities. The earliest documentation of mining in the area was in 1293 (Gillanders, see below). In the 16th century the streams were worked for gold. With the age of steam the vast lead deposits were mined at depth, and in the early days of mineralogy species such as lanarkite, leadhillite and caledonite attracted leading scientists.

Barite specimens from Wanlockhead can be quite good. Almost all are white cockscomb blades in balls, sometimes on black sphalerite, but there was one find (reportedly the only one) of white to clear thin blades with golden tips. The British Museum in London and the National Museum in Scotland have excellent specimens from this find. In fact, the National Museum in Edinburgh has a world class mineral collection as well as an impressive suite of barites from Wanlockhead. The museum is currently hiding almost all of its fine historical (and aesthetic) mineral specimens in a storehouse, a terrible shame. Thanks to the mineral curators the museum did kindly photograph some barite specimens for the non-commercial reference website Barite Specimen Localities but I have not yet confirmed that I can upload those pictures to mindat so one must visit the site to see other specimens.

R. J. Gillanders, Famous Mineral Localities: Leadhills-Wanlockhead District, Scotland, Mineralogical Record #12 p. 235-250



Baryte, UK, Scotland

Scotland, South Lanarkshire, Leadhills

Surprisingly little barite is reported from Leadhills, so close to Wanlockhead. The National Museum in Edinburgh has a couple of nice milky to cream colored (with a yellow tint) groups of radiating, almost chisel shaped crystals (see the barite reference site described above).


Baryte, UK, Scotland

Scotland, Stirling, Airthrey Hill Mine

See the Mindat locality description for Airthrey Hill at the above link. This copper mine from the 18th and 19th centuries is near the famous Bridge of Allan and produced nice square blades with some light red color, not unlike some from the Dreislar mine in Germay.

Baryte, 10 cm	©

Baryte, UK, Scotland

Scotland, Stirling, Blairlogie Mines

This is a copper prospect near Airthrey Hill with similar but less sharp barite cockscomb blades, some with an attractive light red iron staining.




Baryte, UK, Scotland

Scotland, Highland, Strontian, Whitesmith Mine

Several mines in Strontian had barite; a specimen in NMS, Edinburgh has clear prismatic crystals to 1 cm. Collector quality material in hand specimens seems to have been concentrated at the Whitesmith mine.

Baryte & Calcite, 6 cm	© Fernando Metelli

Baryte, UK, Wales

UK, Wales

England, Scotland and Wales all instituted several changes in political subdivision boundaries and their names in the last half of the 20th century. The Wales page in Mindat (link above) provides a very useful overview of these changes Wales. As it notes, "Clearly, mineral specimens from Wales from the same locality can have different administrative district names on their labels depending on the date collected." The current name is primarily the one used here, but the Mindat links give details, and its useful search engine will help you find the right locality. Although barite was not rare in the ancient metal mines or the coal fields, specimen-quality examples come more recent quarries.

Baryte, UK, Wales

Wales, Caerphilly, Cwm Leyshon Quarry





Baryte, UK, Wales

Wales, Caerphilly, Machen Quarry

Baryte & Calcite, 5 cm	© Bill Dameron

Baryte, UK, Wales

Wales, Cardiff, Bwlch-y-cwm, Blaengwynlais Quarry

These are nice crystals. Barite also occurs from here in tan cockscomb bladed groups.




Baryte, UK, Wales

Wales, Cardiff, Taff's Well, Taff's Well Quarry

Well-known for calcite specimens also; some of the best Welsh barite.

Baryte & Calcite, 7 cm	© Bill Dameron

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Edited 61 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2012 08:44PM by Rock Currier.

Baryte, United Kingdom
BaSO₄ Orthorhombic


Attached a couple from Murton Mine that I added to Mindat earlier this month.

Mindat.org
Mindat.org

Both were collected by my Dad in 1973 from the famous carbonate shake part of the mine.
I'll try and get some better photos next time

I don't know much about Murton Mine, it is on the opposite side of the valley from Hilton and was presuably worked for lead.

My father went down in 1973 and recalls that it was a dangerous place being surrounded by shattered rocks, rooting timbers and unstable roofs (as per the location photo posted). The 'carbonate shake' is an area of the mine which is thought to be an old stope that was unstable & partially collapsed and is probably on a geological fault.

As this was famous for barite all he was looking for so; neighbouring Hilton was better known for fluorite/ aragonite / calcite so not much attention was given to the associated minerals. The barite was found in clay filled vugs and extracted as such, once home the clay was washed off to reveal the crystals. Most of these were heavily iron stained which on the photos posted was removed with oxalic acid - I shall post some photo of the 'au natural' once I get them. Despite the quality of the specimens, he only went down once!
Although there are restrictions in accessing the area as it is on a MOD firing range, I see from other websites that the mine itself was open in the early 80's - quite what state it is in now is anybodies guess.

At the same time, he also went down Hilton a few times and although barite crystals were found they were certainley not as good as those at Murton. It is likely that good barite specimens labelled Scoredale are from Murton rather than Hilton unless confirmed from the original collector

PS - I have updated the dimensions of the specimen
[David Clayton 2010]

Oxalic works, but anything works on barite. I have not tested it to see if any yellow goes back into the fractures like it does with quartz because I don't like oxalic anymore. Sodium dithionite works the best (the sulfamic acid in Iron Out can be problem for calcite but probably not for barite). Best used pure. The only time I have seen barite/celestine (they are a solid solution series so should be the same) luster dull was when I soaked the second find of Tunisian celestines (see note under Best of Species - baryte - Tunisia -- no pictures -- I got rid of mine) from Hamman Zriba in acetic for a fairly long time to eat away aragonite. After weeks the luster on the celestine dulled a little. My mineral cleaning guru says barite takes about any acid.
[Bill Dameron 2010]

Actually, Silverband Mine was particularly known for the very large barytes which it produced occasionally. When the Gliddon collection was dispersed around 2000, there was a single, milky white baryte prism, about 1 1/2 inches in diameter and 6 inches long. The base was broken, so the crystal was probably even larger originally.

Peter - Thanks re: Silverband/Dufton.
I've seen several fairly good sized clear barites for sale labeled Dufton, Westmorland. Symes and Young indicate the biggest were from "Dufton mines" (p.49). Were all very large ones from Silverband? What about the 10 cm specimen I show; looks a little different than Silverband. What wording would be better (and is there an easy reference for such)?
I'll fix Westmorland; I knew better; just didn't check.
Thanks much for the help; look forward to more info.
[Bill Dameron 2010]

But a quick picture to give an idea of the larger Silverband pieces
[Ian Jones 2010]

Ian - thanks. I am also willing to bribe with ale for good photos (see below), but will not be in the UK until 2011 so hope you get back to Tucson in Feb.
I guess the question is: I have that large clear "Dufton" piece shown. I have seen others for sale similar and labeled Dufton. But I didn't notice whether they were "near Dufton," "Dufton mine" or just "Dufton." Inevitably followed by Westmorland (often misspelled). So reports are of "very large specimens from the Dufton mines" means what? The Dufton mines probably would include nearby by Silverband. My piece came with a very general label; should it be Silverband also? Did Silverband have a monopoly on "large" specimens? I can ask some other friends across the pond via e-mail but haven't had a chance. Would be nice if it could be answered in this forum. Maybe if we can develop more activity in the Best of Species we can get wider readership.
I am trying to finish up the first round of UK barites before turning to other countries. I have some photos and/or specimens for Ale and Cakes and Wellington and Weal Mary Ann. I haven't searched Mindat completely yet, but if you want to add some stuff here now to incorporate into the southern UK part, Cornwall on particular, it would be welcome.

[Bill Dameron 2010]


Bill - as an ex-civil servant, I'm of course always open to bribes, but only if they're liquid (and doubles count two! Will certainly be in Tucson, so stick it on the slate.

Not sure I can give a you definitive answer re Dufton v Silverband though. Dufton produced some really nice baryte, but I've always thought the Silveband ones to be the biggest. Suggest you poll others to see what they say. Will probably be in the BM next week, will also see what they have.

Am in London for a week, but can do a nice Cakes and Ale piece when I get back if you still want one. If there is anywhere else you particularly want, let me know.
[Jesse Fisher 2010]

Ian - I would love to be able to use some of the pictures of BM barites in Symes and Young. Problem is, getting permission from Museums can be a pain, and the publisher is of course the British Museum. I have permission from NMS for use of photos they took for me to use on the barite reference website. I will ask Peter or Brian to see if my 'permit' would extend to Mindat. You might ask how we could use some of the pics from the book -- and of course we would need the .jpg files. Any pictures YOU take of BM specimens are fair game, because it is your picture. Boy. All the Cumbria, and look at the Wheal Mary Ann. Good Pics!
Bill
[Bill Dameron 2010]

There is a nice large example of Murton Mine baryte in one of the wall cases in the Mineral Gallery of the Natural History Museum (see attached pic). Sadly the name of the mine is incorrectly shown as Merton.
[Roy Starkey 2010]

Roy -- and Ian
Wow! Nice piece. The resolution of the attached photo is reduced. Could you e-mail me a full size photo to see if I can eliminate some background, etc. and make it usable? If under 1 MB this forum can handle it. E-mail through MinDat message or my address in on the barite reference website, easily found in any search engine. How big is it?
Or Ian: As you pursue photos... can you get some hi-res photos next week? Some of mine through-the-glass, some 9 years ago when digital cameras were babies, were OK (see website, Wheal Mary Ann, for example).
[Bill Dameron 2010]

Bill,

I had some time to take better photos of my British barytes.

[www.mindat.org]
[www.mindat.org]
[www.mindat.org]
[www.mindat.org]

More to come.
[Peter Haas 2010]

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2010 10:26PM by Bill Dameron.

Bill,
I have deleted my thread on UK barites and yours is now the main thread. I saved in a separate post under your main thread all the replies that I thought might be useful and relevant from my old thread. You can go through them and make further deletions and additions. What ever you think might be useful.
Rock

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

You're a genius to figure that out. Thanks much. I used virtually everything I could out of you original posting. I will go through it now to cull the stuff we need. If we can get some publicity on the MinDat front/home page maybe people will read this and some of the questions will be addressed.

Bill Dameron

Bill,
I would not count on too many people answering the questions. When we are lucky we will get a few people who find their way here. But I purposely put Best Minerals down and way at the bottom of the Message board so we would not get too many people chiming in with ideas. I can only handle so many suggestions. If we had a half dozen really active guys perhaps I would push for a higher profile. I have finished scanning and photoshoping all my mineral slides and have started to nibble a little bit at the locality images. That of course leads directly to having to try and learn about power point presentations so I can convert my lectures to those kind of presentations. I gave a lecture at the Sinkankas Symposium, this year on feldspar at the GIA and they had trouble finding me a slide projector. After I get through uploading all my photoshoped specimen images than I can get back to working a lot more on Best Minerals. I am very glad you have come on board to help with the Baryte portion of the project. A certain number of people will find best minerals. If you need help with the baryte section you can post a notice to that effect on the general forum or even on other well known mineral web sites. Sometimes you get more help than you can handle. I think when we get say the most popular 500 species described we can start to think about a higher profile and how to access the content efficiently. However if you want to create a higher profile for the project and are willing to work with all the people it brings to us, Ill support you in that.
Rock

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.

Peter -- thanks for the new pictures; some really good ones. Will return to this thread fairly soon. A little tied up at the moment.

Bill Dameron