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HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH?
Posted by BOB HARMAN
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HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 03:00PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 448 |
Over the past several months I have posted many pix of some of my better display quality Indiana geode specimens. After cleaning and preparation some go onto my display shelves and into my cabinets. Over time of weeks to months to years many stay fresh, but some others slowly lose their luster and "freshness". These slow changes seem, largely, to depend on the minerals present and the very slow loss of moisture. This seems plausible to me as, when found, the local environment is nearly 100% humidity. My quartz stays very fresh, the barites and calcites seem to also keep their luster and "freshness", but my dolomites seem to slowly lose their fresh luster and become slightly dull and "lifeless". My blue chalcedony geodes,very slowly, seem to lighten up, loosing their blue color and finally wind up a very pale blue gray or off white color.
Over the years I have learned to spray these certain specimens with water or a shaken up mixture of water and light mineral oil (horrors to purists???) every several months. The blue chalcedony specimens are soaked in fresh water overnite every several months. For my dolomites etc, these treatments seem to work well and their luster and freshness returns and endures.
So, do any of you have a similar problem with your display minerals loosing their luster or "freshness" over time? Which of your minerals seem most affected? And if you do notice these slow changes, how do you treat them to brighten them up??? Cheers.........BOB HARMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 03:01PM by BOB HARMAN.
Over the years I have learned to spray these certain specimens with water or a shaken up mixture of water and light mineral oil (horrors to purists???) every several months. The blue chalcedony specimens are soaked in fresh water overnite every several months. For my dolomites etc, these treatments seem to work well and their luster and freshness returns and endures.
So, do any of you have a similar problem with your display minerals loosing their luster or "freshness" over time? Which of your minerals seem most affected? And if you do notice these slow changes, how do you treat them to brighten them up??? Cheers.........BOB HARMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 03:01PM by BOB HARMAN.
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 04:26PM |
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Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 2,366 |
This is very common for Dolomite. Although there is a difference between localities, or even between pockets in one locality. The Dolomite from one can lose lustre, and change from pink, over yellow to a dull and ugly light beige colour, whereas a specimen from another pocket can stay bright pink and shiny for years and years.
I'm not a purist; if your method of spraying with water and oil works, than that's just the thing to do. Although you shouldn't do that when there's also Marcasite or Pyrite on the specimen (especially Marcasite is very often sprinkled on Dolomite!) because due to the humidity you will speed up the oxidation process, leaving yellow.brown stains on the specimen, and in the end the chances are high that your Pyrite and/or Marcasite will rot and fall apart.
Cheers,
Harjo
I'm not a purist; if your method of spraying with water and oil works, than that's just the thing to do. Although you shouldn't do that when there's also Marcasite or Pyrite on the specimen (especially Marcasite is very often sprinkled on Dolomite!) because due to the humidity you will speed up the oxidation process, leaving yellow.brown stains on the specimen, and in the end the chances are high that your Pyrite and/or Marcasite will rot and fall apart.
Cheers,
Harjo
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 05:54PM |
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Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 242 |
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 06:30PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 448 |
Stephen, That is only a partial answer as unless you humidify the boxes or put each specimen in a polyethylene bag or similar water tight covering, some of the specimens will continue to, slowly over a long time period, lose water and may become lusterless. I speak from experience as many of my non-displayed specimens are put into plastic bag type coverings; those that I mist with water first (not the pyrites etc.....as per Harjo's observations and advice) seem to stay much fresher in appearance than those that are put into coverings completely dry.
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 06:41PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 448 |
Now this raises yet another point and question. How many of you collectors have nice, hi quality/display quality specimens and DON'T display any of them??? At least display some of them....right??? That is one of the major reasons why I collect in the first place. Putting ALL your display quality specimens out of sight into boxes and NOT displaying any of them, to my mind, is tantamount to a sacrilege !!! ...... BOB
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 19, 2012 06:58PM |
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Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 1,651 |
We have three glassed wall-mounted cases in the lab, each with four shelves and six feet long. We rotate cabinet-sized specimens about once a year from the storage boxes to the cases (which means they get cleaned & inspected about once a year). All miniatures, thumbnails & micros are in appropriately sized "perky" boxes in a five-drawer map case. Since we live in the desert, humidity is LOW but we've not noticed a loss of freshness or luster on specimens. Maybe we're not as discerning as many collectors are or maybe we just don't collect the species that tend to lose moisture. Our pink dolomites from Viburnum Trend are still lustreus and have been in and out of the case for at least twenty years. We keep hanksites and borates appropriately oiled.
Don
Don
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 20, 2012 12:48AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 8,479 |
Bob,
The problems of specimens loosing their color and altering in other ways have been commented on by collectors and curators for more than 100 years. In his Popular Guide to Minerals (1912), Louis Gratacap wrote unhappily of the deterioration of many specimens in the Clarence Bement collection at the American Museum of Natural History: "I have noticed that specimens of even vanadinite, descloizite, and rhodonite, lose something of their initial brilliancy and intensity under the scourge of that actinic bombardment to which they become exposed in our halls. The fluorites, pink quartzes, even the delicate greens of some spodumene, the faintly blushing calcites and the rhodochrosites, also sensibly succumb to these exposures, while it is a matter of common annoyance to find that the realgars, cerargyrites, proustites, cuprites, crocoite, and sulphurs go through changes that slowly alter their substance, texture and appearance. Stibnite loses its splendent surface, cut topazes pale, and some colors in barite slowly vanish. Mercury minerals are altered, cerargyrite changes and andorite tarnishes.
Your problems seem to be related to only dolomite and blue chalcedony. It has been my observation that colors, especially pale/pastel types of colors frequently are light sensitive and I think the only way to preserve them long term is to keep them in the dark in cool dry places. Have you ever put any of your blue chalcedony out in the direct sunlight for a while to see how they react? I would wager that the blue would pretty quickly "bleach out" and that soaking it in water and or oil will not restore it to its original color. I would speculate that its loss of color is probably due to the destruction of color centers in the chalcedony by UV light and the loss of water from the structure of the agate. This should be something you should be able to test easily. Most chalcedony is somewhat porous and that is why it has been dyed for years to make it look prettier. Taking one of your nice blue chalcedony's fresh from the ground and soaking it in oil will probably make it look substantially bluer. I know that is the case with the blue agate we have just received from Malawi.
Dolomite is the other mineral you have in your geodes that sometimes seems to give you problems. Generally I think of it as being more stable than calcite. I know it doesn't react as readily with hydrochloric acid as calcite. If you are getting various results with dolomite from different localities, that would suggest that either you are subjecting them to different storage environments or that the composition of the dolomite is changing from one locality to the next which is probably more likely the case. The only way to run this down would probably be to do careful analytical work on those dolomites to see if there were chemical and or trace element differences in them. Eventually the advent of fast and cheap analytically equipment may make it practical to do that. I have heard that much less expensive mass spectrometers are on their way and those may for example make it possible for us to at long last determine what localities various mineral specimens come from once analysis from know specimens are determined. It could be done now, probably but the cost of doing it could not be justified compared to the knowledge gained.
I would suspect that your best bet is going to be to display only those only those specimens your experience has found to be stable and keep the rest of them in a dark cool place. I suspect that the polluted atmosphere we have in our cities plays a more important part than we know in the gradual degradation of our minerals than we generally suspect. I have kept most of my specimens from day one in flats in as fry and a cool place as I can manage and they seem to retain their "freshness" better than those that have been kept on display, but as you noted, it depends on the specimen.
Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
The problems of specimens loosing their color and altering in other ways have been commented on by collectors and curators for more than 100 years. In his Popular Guide to Minerals (1912), Louis Gratacap wrote unhappily of the deterioration of many specimens in the Clarence Bement collection at the American Museum of Natural History: "I have noticed that specimens of even vanadinite, descloizite, and rhodonite, lose something of their initial brilliancy and intensity under the scourge of that actinic bombardment to which they become exposed in our halls. The fluorites, pink quartzes, even the delicate greens of some spodumene, the faintly blushing calcites and the rhodochrosites, also sensibly succumb to these exposures, while it is a matter of common annoyance to find that the realgars, cerargyrites, proustites, cuprites, crocoite, and sulphurs go through changes that slowly alter their substance, texture and appearance. Stibnite loses its splendent surface, cut topazes pale, and some colors in barite slowly vanish. Mercury minerals are altered, cerargyrite changes and andorite tarnishes.
Your problems seem to be related to only dolomite and blue chalcedony. It has been my observation that colors, especially pale/pastel types of colors frequently are light sensitive and I think the only way to preserve them long term is to keep them in the dark in cool dry places. Have you ever put any of your blue chalcedony out in the direct sunlight for a while to see how they react? I would wager that the blue would pretty quickly "bleach out" and that soaking it in water and or oil will not restore it to its original color. I would speculate that its loss of color is probably due to the destruction of color centers in the chalcedony by UV light and the loss of water from the structure of the agate. This should be something you should be able to test easily. Most chalcedony is somewhat porous and that is why it has been dyed for years to make it look prettier. Taking one of your nice blue chalcedony's fresh from the ground and soaking it in oil will probably make it look substantially bluer. I know that is the case with the blue agate we have just received from Malawi.
Dolomite is the other mineral you have in your geodes that sometimes seems to give you problems. Generally I think of it as being more stable than calcite. I know it doesn't react as readily with hydrochloric acid as calcite. If you are getting various results with dolomite from different localities, that would suggest that either you are subjecting them to different storage environments or that the composition of the dolomite is changing from one locality to the next which is probably more likely the case. The only way to run this down would probably be to do careful analytical work on those dolomites to see if there were chemical and or trace element differences in them. Eventually the advent of fast and cheap analytically equipment may make it practical to do that. I have heard that much less expensive mass spectrometers are on their way and those may for example make it possible for us to at long last determine what localities various mineral specimens come from once analysis from know specimens are determined. It could be done now, probably but the cost of doing it could not be justified compared to the knowledge gained.
I would suspect that your best bet is going to be to display only those only those specimens your experience has found to be stable and keep the rest of them in a dark cool place. I suspect that the polluted atmosphere we have in our cities plays a more important part than we know in the gradual degradation of our minerals than we generally suspect. I have kept most of my specimens from day one in flats in as fry and a cool place as I can manage and they seem to retain their "freshness" better than those that have been kept on display, but as you noted, it depends on the specimen.
Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 20, 2012 01:31AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 448 |
Thanks for your ideas Rock, As to the dolomite, yes it seems to be location and specimen specific as some specimens maintain original luster while others slowly change as I described. It doesn't seem related to any prior vinegar (acid) treatment as most specimens were never prepared in this way. It seems mostly related to original freshness and color as the freshest pearly pink dolomites stay lustrous while those found in the orange to brick red colors (by iron) seem most susceptible to slow deterioration. Regular misting with water or a water/oil mixture helped restore the luster as I mentioned.
As to the blue chalcedony, for several years I seriously considered light, even in the darkest areas of my shelves. So I wrapped several specimens in aluminum foil and left them totally covered and untouched for extended time periods of over 1 year. These lightened slowly despite my "darkness treatment". Then I had several geodes with both halves, one half of which I put in foil and the other half I put under water for the same length of time. The half kept under water was still a fresher shade of blue (when removed from the water and dried) while the covered half had dried out, fading a bit at the same time. The slow color change in the blue chalcedony geodes now appears to me related more to loss of moisture in the microcrystalline quartz rather than to light exposure. It is also specimen specific as some examples change more quickly while other specimens seemed quite change resistant in my time frame.
Hope this explanation expounds on my findings and helps some others with some of these problems. By the way, I plan to be in Denver at the September show; will you be there to meet???? Cheers..............BOB
As to the blue chalcedony, for several years I seriously considered light, even in the darkest areas of my shelves. So I wrapped several specimens in aluminum foil and left them totally covered and untouched for extended time periods of over 1 year. These lightened slowly despite my "darkness treatment". Then I had several geodes with both halves, one half of which I put in foil and the other half I put under water for the same length of time. The half kept under water was still a fresher shade of blue (when removed from the water and dried) while the covered half had dried out, fading a bit at the same time. The slow color change in the blue chalcedony geodes now appears to me related more to loss of moisture in the microcrystalline quartz rather than to light exposure. It is also specimen specific as some examples change more quickly while other specimens seemed quite change resistant in my time frame.
Hope this explanation expounds on my findings and helps some others with some of these problems. By the way, I plan to be in Denver at the September show; will you be there to meet???? Cheers..............BOB
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 20, 2012 01:50AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 1,607 |
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 20, 2012 09:24AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 8,479 |
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 20, 2012 11:38AM |
Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 79 |
My small understanding of Geology is that one of the things that change minerals is "atmosphere" and whatever it contains. Even though the atmosphere penetrates to all voids is it not possible that the small amount inside a geode is slightly different than outside. So when you open it the minerals are exposed to different acids and humidity. Autinite changing to Meta-autinite for instance?
The only minerals that I keep burried in boxes on purpose are the Realgar etc, but donot have room to display the rest. Did make the mistake of leaveing Halite and Pyrite in closed boxes, I will try to avoid doing that again. Mike
The only minerals that I keep burried in boxes on purpose are the Realgar etc, but donot have room to display the rest. Did make the mistake of leaveing Halite and Pyrite in closed boxes, I will try to avoid doing that again. Mike
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 21, 2012 02:53AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 8,479 |
I think all minerals start to change once they are removed from the conditions that formed them. Many of them do not appear to change during our lifetimes, like quartz crystals, but many other minerals are sensitive to ambient conditions and many of them change so slowly that we notice no change from day to day or even month to month. Autunite is one however that can definitely benefit from being buried in a cool dark place with stable humidity. Just what the optimum humidity might be I am not sure anyone knows, but probably some degree of humidity would slow its dehydration.
I have had a fairly nice autunite from the Daybreak mine in my collection for about 50 years and have watched it slowly develop a crack or two even though it has never been in a display case, but rather in a box. I recently got another nice one, this one a somewhat thin crust of small crystals perhaps 4x5 inches. It was in great shape. The specimen was in a largish plastic box, one of those with a thin black plastic bottom and a deep clear plastic top that would hinge back. I attribute its long life to being kept in that box for most of its time out of the ground. I feel confident that is it had been placed in even just an open box but kept dark and cool, it would have suffered the fate of many good Daybreak autunites.
Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 03:01AM by Rock Currier.
I have had a fairly nice autunite from the Daybreak mine in my collection for about 50 years and have watched it slowly develop a crack or two even though it has never been in a display case, but rather in a box. I recently got another nice one, this one a somewhat thin crust of small crystals perhaps 4x5 inches. It was in great shape. The specimen was in a largish plastic box, one of those with a thin black plastic bottom and a deep clear plastic top that would hinge back. I attribute its long life to being kept in that box for most of its time out of the ground. I feel confident that is it had been placed in even just an open box but kept dark and cool, it would have suffered the fate of many good Daybreak autunites.
Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 03:01AM by Rock Currier.
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Re: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR DISPLAY QUALITY SPECIMENS FRESH? April 24, 2012 04:35PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 462 |
Howdy All,
A little tip I once read (cannnot remember where though!!!) for helping to keep these issues from having too much effect, is to have a small glass of water on the back of the bottom shelf of your display cabinet, to help add moisture to the atmosphere of the cabinet. Of course, make sure there are no pyrite, marcasite or similar type specimens in the cabinet.
I've never tried it myself, as all my sensitive specimens are keep out of light in draws. However, the same method is used by bakeries for keeping pastries fresh for longer, and it seems to work when used properly.
You just need to remember to keep the glass full.
If anyone tries this, it would be good to know how well it goes!
Cheers Mark.
We will never have all the answers, only more questions!
A little tip I once read (cannnot remember where though!!!) for helping to keep these issues from having too much effect, is to have a small glass of water on the back of the bottom shelf of your display cabinet, to help add moisture to the atmosphere of the cabinet. Of course, make sure there are no pyrite, marcasite or similar type specimens in the cabinet.
I've never tried it myself, as all my sensitive specimens are keep out of light in draws. However, the same method is used by bakeries for keeping pastries fresh for longer, and it seems to work when used properly.
You just need to remember to keep the glass full.
If anyone tries this, it would be good to know how well it goes!
Cheers Mark.
We will never have all the answers, only more questions!
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