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Diamonds in California?

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Christopher Fryberger June 04, 2007 08:03AM
Going to California this summer and was reading an old book that said that there are parts of California that has diamond. Is this true? Has anyone ever found diamonds in California? And if so, locations would be a great help. Thanks.
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jacques jedwab June 04, 2007 09:11AM
See this very site, and ask for diamond-california: you will get three recorded localities.
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Alan Plante June 04, 2007 12:53PM
Hi Christopher

Yes, diamonds have been found in a couple of places in California. Unfortunately they are extremely rare to find (almost literaally "grains of sand on a beach") - you would have to sift through tons of sands to have a reasonable chance of finding anything.

You would do much better visiting "Crater of Diamonds State Park" in Arkansas. A lot more diamonds have been found there per-volume of dirt sifted. Much better chance of actually finding a stone.

Regards

Alan
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Jesse Fisher June 04, 2007 02:23PM
Pemberton (Minerals of California, 1983) gives an estimate of 500+ diamonds having been found in California. The vast majority are from the Sierra foothills counties and were recovered in the course of hydraulic placer mining for gold (a practice now illegal because of the environmental destruction it causes). A couple of the more "prolific" areas were placers at Jackass Gulch in Amador County and Cherokee Flat in Butte County. Almost all stones recovered have been less than 2 ct. A detailed list of reported finds can be found in Murdoch and Webb (1966). Given the enormous amount of ground moved over the past 150+ years searching for gold in these areas, a handfull of small diamonds truly is "a grain of sand on the beach". Your odds of getting a return on your time and money are likely much better with a lottery ticket.
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Alan Plante June 04, 2007 02:59PM
Exactly, Jesse

I like the "grains of sand on a beach" analogy because it just seems to fit the California state of mind: Barbie at Malibu and all! :~}

Alan
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Jesse Fisher June 04, 2007 07:14PM
Watching the Barbies on the beach can be fun (though I would prefer the Barbettes on the Med). Unfortunately, places like Jackass Gulch and Chreokee Flat are a long way from Malibu, both geographically and culturally.
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Casey Lenard June 04, 2007 09:43PM
Really?
Thats new!
I thought you could only find good diamonds in Arkansas.
How big on average are they?
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bob fear June 09, 2007 01:48AM
Most of the diamonds that have been found in California were found in gravels that were deposited before the sierras were uplifted.
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Phil Walsh June 09, 2007 05:24PM
Christopher,
In the late seventies there was an article in one the magazines,"Gems and Minerals" or "Rocks and Gems". Sorry I can't be more specific. There were pictures and references, so I guess there was something to it. It's possible the article was in the "California Mining Journal", but I don't think so.
Phil
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Jesse Fisher June 09, 2007 06:06PM
See "Minerals of California", California Division of Mines and Geology Bulletin 189 by Murdoch and Webb (1966) for a fairly complete list of finds. The largest was 7.25, found at French Corral in Nevada County sometime before 1867.
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Bruce July 27, 2007 08:14AM
I live in Butte county and have been mining gold in the surround area for ten years. There has been diamonds found at Cherokee in the past. The story I've put together is that the silica mine in the Morris ravine has produced some 230 diamonds one as big as 6 carrots. The original owners started finding diamonds and let debeers come in and do tests on them. Debeers told them that they were only comerical grade which arn't very good but then proceeded to buy them all out and then shut the mine down. My guess is that they were of good quality but Debeers makes more profet buy importing diamonds from other countries and then selling them. I mine gold about 5 miles away and all of it is 97% pure which is extremly pure for placer gold, and I think the diamonds are of high quality too. These days the mine can be seen from the road but is behind a gate that is sometimes open. They have some modern equipment there but I have never seen it in use. I have always wanted to go there and scout for diamonds but it is all private property. An old timer told me that after it rains and you can see them shining on the ground.
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Byron Thomas July 29, 2007 12:37AM
Bruce..... Debeers In The United states not likely. Debeers under the US anti monopoly laws in the United States is forbidden to do any work or business here in the United States. This does not mean that Debeers Diamonds arnt sold here they are but as a company Debeers is not allowed to exist here. But your tail of them buying up diamonds and closing down mines is true. Debeers has a long history of doing this exact thing. Diamonds are not as scarce or rare as their very imaginative marketing makes them out to be. Now on to you idea of diamonds being found in Silica wrong on that count. Diamonds are found in Kimberlites, and or lamporlites, NOT in silica. Gold can and normally is found in silica(quartz). If Diamonds have been found in California there is a Kimberlite or lamporlite pipe in the area. Mind you the area could be as much as 1000 miles away, time has the amazing ability to move things around. As far as diamonds shining on the gound after it rains that true. But your statement and i Quote "An old timer told me that after it rains and you can see them shining on the ground" makes it seam like diamonds are found a dime for a dozen. They are not rare but they also are not picked up my the normal person with and regularity.

Byron
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07zx10r August 04, 2007 09:34PM
Yeah, my knolage of diamonds is slim just about all of what I wrote is hear say but I did see an artical that was published in the gold fever magizne that said they found the 230 diamonds there in cherokee. Do you think that debeers could own the property but not use it for work or business. I was under the impression debeers purchased the property along time ago maby before the anti monopoly law went into effect. Do you think they would be able to own the property that way? Bruce
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Byron Thomas August 05, 2007 12:41AM
I doubt that Debeers owns anything at all here. The laws would not allow them to, even if they owned it before the laws went into effect. I seriously doubt any diamond mining company would mess with the trivial amount of diamonds they would find in a California unless there was a kimberlite or lampolite pipe there. The money they would expend to recover would not make up for the loss of money put out to recover the diamonds. That does not mean that panners of the old days would just toss the diamond over their shoulder and not think about it.

Byron
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Ryland November 14, 2013 12:12AM
Dear Bruce, I live in Butte county also. The stories of diamond finds are so numerous that the likelihood of finding diamonds in Cherokee is rather high. I saw an assay of the mine in Cherokee, and the value of the diamonds was listed to be about 1 billion dollars! I read a story about a guy who decided to look for diamonds in a small creek in Cherokee. It took him less than a half hour to find a blue diamond.
DeBeers no longer owns the mine, but the new owners ran into environmental regulations, mainly over water quality issues, and the mine has not been re-opened as they promised. If you go up highway 70, just across the bridge, you will see the black periditite rock which as a continuous vein, runs all the way to just east of Bangor. (about 30 miles.) The diamonds either come out of that or from the numerous blue clay pipes which are often associated with gold veins. As you noted, all the land around Cherokee is in private hands, and is difficult to get onto. Cherokee is also known for its numerous good quality quartz crystals, which can indeed be found in some locations just scattered around on top the soil. I doubt that the diamonds are that common, but some of them will glow under a portable uv light, and can be found at night by shining a uv light on them. By the way, I read that more gold has come out of Butte county than all the rest of the counties of California combined!
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Mark & Linda Mahlum November 14, 2013 02:44AM
Don't forget about the kimberlite pipes on the Colorado/Wyoming state line northwest of Fort Collins, Co. They were recently mined.
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Cedar Oaks January 17, 2014 08:35PM
I know this is in response to older posts, from years back. But, in the event anyone like me, wants to research the subject today....Here's some more pertinent info.

About 37 years ago, as a child, I lived in Northern California. In and around Clearlake County, Calif. I was told that the lake there, called Clearlake, was an old water filled volcano.. Some places in lake, the bottom has never been found. Anyways, in researching diamonds and where they're found, it's said they're found around volcanic areas.

Well, I lived in mountains there and I and my mother would go looking for gold and diamonds. Didn't find gold. But, did find diamonds! So, my mother did some research and told me that they are diamonds. But, they're not quite as hard as preferred jewelry diamonds. It is true that best time to find them is after heavy rains. I rode my horse a lot in the woods and along fire roads and would find them all over a certain area, off Hwy 175. The larger ones I would pick up and take home. Over the years, we moved a lot and those diamonds were misplaced somewhere and lost, I thought!

My mother was a pack rat and had kept numerous filing cabinets over the years. She recently passed away and I have undertaken the task of going through them, one piece of paper at a time. I've ran across an envelope, with diamonds written on it. Inside is 13 of these diamonds. Since as a kid, I didn't pay much attention to how exactly she was informed that they were softer diamonds, etc. I thought I'd have them checked out. But, in researching where to take them, etc., I've read that it's illegal to possess raw uncut diamonds, without a certification. Due to the diamond wars and atrocities being committed on people over them, in Africa.

So, now I am leary to take them to a jeweler and have them checked out. Will I be reported and arrested? Should I just throw them away, or turn them over to authorities? Haven't decided yet!

But, I do know that there are diamonds in California. As to what grade, etc...Not sure! If I had the resources and money, I'd consider taking a trip back there and try finding some more. Have them tested and certified as to their origin and maybe there's a market for such? Buy up the properties, in that area and maybe it could be a lucrative investment!

But, there are diamonds in Northern California mountains!
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Alfredo Petrov January 17, 2014 09:42PM
What you found are probably what is known as "clearlake diamonds" = http://www.mindat.org/min-39626.html - which aren't really diamonds at all, but rather Quartz, albeit quite pretty things.

And, even if they were diamonds, it is not correct that "...it's illegal to possess raw uncut diamonds, without a certification. Due to the diamond wars and atrocities being committed on people over them, in Africa." It is only illegal to transport them internationally without going through the bureaucratic procedures of the "Kimberly process". If you were to find one in California and sell it inside the USA, you would have broken no laws. And "Clearlake diamonds", being really quartz, can of course be transported and sold over international boundaries without any special restrictions, other than the need to fill out a customs declaration for the receiving country.

Post some pix!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2014 09:46PM by Alfredo Petrov.
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Mark Davis April 08, 2014 08:25PM
I have found a California diamond and it is currently on display at Sierra College Rocklin California.
they are rare, it took me 12 years to find it.
it was located in Placer County on a private placergold claim
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Jake Harper April 09, 2014 01:16AM
Congrats Mark! How many carats was your find? Can you post a picture and give any more details about its discovery?

Jake

All knowledge is vain, except where there be work
All work is empty except where there be love
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Dave Zutz April 21, 2014 10:42PM
When I was 12 years old my family was visiting our Grand Parents in St.Helena, Ca. Our grand Father took us to some caves that were near. I would say an hour from his house.
As we walked through a cow pasture to get to the caves we kept seeing these pieces of quartz like chucks on the ground. When I asked him what they were he said they were California Diamonds. After we went to the caves on our way back all of us kids (there were 5 of us) started picking up the Diamonds. When we got to the car we had a 1 lb. Coffee can full of them. The biggest was bigger than my little finger.
When we got back home to Wiscon by Brother took the biggest one across the street to the UWM geollogy dept. and one of the Proffesors there told him it was a real diamond and it could be cut to make a spectacular stone. He said the only problem is it's very expebsive to cut them.
Since I was 12 and my brother was 14 we didn't have the money to do that.
My Grandfather has since passed away and we never asked him where we were when the Diamonds were found. I just know he lived in the Napa Valley in St. Helena. If anyone has an idea where the place is let me know.
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Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. April 22, 2014 12:47AM
Chances are 99.9999% that the stones you picked up were actually quartz. California diamonds were never found in any such quantity, not even close.

Chet Lemanski
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Alessio Piccioni April 22, 2014 12:02PM
.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2016 07:26PM by Alessio Piccioni.
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j! April 23, 2014 04:42AM
Hey Dave,

Chester's got the right of it. What'cha found are called 'Clearlake Diamonds'. I'm guessing most of them double terminated -- a point on each end? Almost all of them that aren't in the local road cuts are on provate property, and chances are that farmer's field is a vineyard these days.
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Big Hippie June 14, 2014 04:53PM
I have seen pictures, some of the California diamonds were not as small as describe (grain of sand)
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joe s October 12, 2015 06:43AM
There are diamonds, as well as high grade garnets in the area. I normally work Molk River ( For those who know also produce gold witch I found a nugget size of a dime.) about 2 grams. I haven't found any large garnets but fell on tigers eyes before , also few emeralds. If you have mining equipment its easier or pan. The trick with finding diamonds unless you have your own tester ( alot of the places well in sonora.) will not test it. I have tried 3 places and found a super clear witch I though was a quartz at first however passes all my at home test (majic marker on paper,cutting glass etc even water test.) I can compare it to a quartz the same size its darker in texture no light passes threw quartz those are 2 major signs. Its about the size of a small earing so when your looking for gold take time to pan it out wish I can find a freaking star ruby those are crazy expensive right know. If anyone knows of anyone who evaluates gems in sierra foothills message me I tried gem store in angles camp too said wouldn't look at it.
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph October 12, 2015 12:22PM
I would love to see a validated Diamond that has been collected in California. I know they do exist because they have been recorded. But we're talking such tiny numbers of validated finds that the actual chances of finding one are so vanishingly small that I wouldn't recommend going out hunting for them.

Also, Joe S, none of your diagnostic tests are foolproof in telling diamond from other stones. Even a diamond tester isn't foolproof.
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Chester S. Lemanski, Jr. October 12, 2015 02:47PM
Mindat now lists 28 reported diamond occurrence localities in California. Most are vague at best; however, Cherokee in Butte County is a good bet to find one with a lot of effort. That site was open to collecting when I was living in California during the early 1970's. I don't know its status now. No, I didn't find any diamonds (or gold either).

Chet Lemanski
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Jerry james Winkle October 29, 2015 05:19AM
i would love to display my diamonds but no photo larger than 1000kb can be attached.
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Jason Ferguson October 29, 2015 06:24PM
Jerry james Winkle Wrote:
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> i would love to display my diamonds but no photo
> larger than 1000kb can be attached.

Jerry,

The simplest solution would be to open your photo in paint and resize the photo. Save as so you do not override the original copy. You can right click the file and click properties and see the file size. You can then go back and resize it again if needed . From a phone I usually crop the photo to reduce the file size or save the picture from Facebook since Facebook converts your photos to a smaller size when you upload them to your page.
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Robert Hobdy November 19, 2015 02:51AM
foolproof test: let it soak for 24 hours in a plastic cup which has enough solution to cover it from a bottle of WHINK (rust remover) from Walmart. That solution just happens to be a weak solution of Hydrofluoric Acid, so handle with care and rinse carefully. A diamond will not be affected. Anything else will be etched because it has Si as a chemical component of its makeup, such as quartz, beryl, zircon, topaz, sapphire, etc. Diamonds are pure carbon thus wont etch and this acid will only affect things with Si in it.
happy hunting
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Alfredo Petrov November 19, 2015 03:09AM
small correction: no Si in sapphire
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Owen Melfyn Lewis November 19, 2015 04:14PM
Nor ruby, rutile, spinel, apatite, chrysoberyl and quite a few more.
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William green December 06, 2015 07:30PM
I have found several handfuls in lowerlake CA at the vineyard up segler canyon rd. I worked there for several months .every spot where the water driped in-between the plants there would be diamonds.one kid that worked told me he had found one the size of a gulf ball.hope it helps.
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Doug Daniels December 06, 2015 07:33PM
If you found "handfuls" in California, you didn't find diamonds. Especially one the size of a golf ball. Maybe quartz crystals, but not diamonds.
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Bob Harman December 06, 2015 09:41PM
It never ceases to amaze me the stories and urban legends that get started and get going regarding gold and diamond finds.

I am sure that if Doug D or I had found "handfuls of diamonds, some the size of golf balls" in California or anywhere else, we would not be posting all of this on any collecting website! CHEERS.....BOB
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Owen Melfyn Lewis December 06, 2015 09:52PM
Agreeing with BOB's sentiment, this thread is simply one big wind-up!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2015 11:03PM by Owen Melfyn Lewis.
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Wayne Corwin December 06, 2015 10:01PM
William

what proof do you have for your wild statement ? confused smiley ?
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Jim Bean December 07, 2015 04:52AM
William is almost certainly referring to "Clearlake diamonds" which are blobs of quartz weathered out of volcanic rock.
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Kimberleana January 06, 2016 07:55AM
<yes i believe we found some.smileys with beeru>
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Kimberleana January 07, 2016 07:44AM
Yes there are diamonds in california,found some myself.
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Mike Mangrum January 07, 2016 08:10PM
Of course there are diamonds in California, lots of them. They can be found in various jewelry stores throughout the state or on the fingers of numerous ladies.winking smiley
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Robert Hobdy March 24, 2016 11:17PM
Diamonds are hard to sell if not registered,, but not impossible. Take them to a reputable jewelry store that cuts diamonds, you may have to ask around, and they will appraise and cut them for you, without having to register them. You will have to sign an affidavit of when/where found. Diamonds do vary from source to source in their makeup. You can tell a diamond that came from Africa from one found in Brazil, or India, or Australia. Diamonds that come from Crater of Diamonds also have their own unique makeup... normally chemical impurities and other characteristics such as being harder than diamonds from Africa. Yes, diamonds do vary in hardness from one locale to another. If you want to really find diamonds, there are only 2 places in the USA I would recommend as having a chance. The State Line District of Colorado/Wyoming and Crater of Diamonds. I have several from Crater of Diamonds, and 32 from State Line District. Plus one big 4.92ct white flawless fragment found in a creek in the State Line District.
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Peter Nancarrow March 25, 2016 07:25AM
.. Yes, diamonds do vary in hardness from one locale to another.


I like to keep an open mind about such things, but I have strong doubts about that statement.

It is not a claim that I have ever encountered before, and from the crystallographic point of view it seems very dubious. However, diamonds do vary in hardness with crystallographic direction (e.g. a cube face is harder than an octahedral if I remember correctly) so perhaps you are referring to such things as the differences between localities where cube diamonds are found compared to those where only octahedra occur?

What evidence/references can you provide to support that claim?

Pete N.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis March 25, 2016 12:55PM
The problem is that books are full of old information written first before the relatively recent years in which it has been able to measure a diamond's hardness with some accuracy (not possible until the advent of a stylus harder than diamond (fullerite).

To follow up on Peter's point. There is a great hardness difference even between the faces of a cubic diamond, being measured at 137+/-6 GPa on the (100) face and 167+/-5GPa on the (111) face. To give a general appreciation of the hugeness of that difference, The hardness of corundum is about 23GPa. It follows that the hardness differential between faces of a cubic diamond is greater than the hardness differential between corundum and talc smiling smiley

Directional hardness differential within diamond crystal was shown (entirely without measurement) when man discovered (very laboriously) how to cut the tip off an octahedral diamond to give a flat table. Prior to that, alteration of a diamond's shape had only been possible by cleaving it.
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William C. van Laer March 25, 2016 03:54PM
I read these messages with great interest....am truly glad that there are many level-headed people contributing to this thread....some of the posts on here are downright hysterical, and some exhibit the worst spelling in the known English language...hard to believe anything these people say given their level of literacy, but it is clear that many collectors think that whatever they find is automatically the rarest, most valuable material known on the planet....it's never quartz, always a diamond! Never pyrite, always gold! never a garnet, always a "ruby the size of your fist"!! I frequently see or hear that any silvery mineral they found is "platinum"!! A post on facebook today shows a metallic, silver mineral mass bigger than a fist, with obvious cubic cleavage, the finder says that he believes that it is tellurium!! (Looks a lot like galena to me.)

There has been many supposed diamond finds here in Montana, and some of these have been recorded...but that doesn't mean the finds were actually real diamonds! Lester Zeihen once told me that every reported diamond find in this state had been disproved....now except the one large stone that was found near Great Falls over three decades ago by a jogger who spotted it in a roadcut. (I don't have any references to this find at my immediate disposal). Just because it is "reported" does not necessarily make it a fact!

After many years running a mineral business and four working in the Montana Tech Mineral Museum, I've pretty much seen it all. What bothers me most is that people will come to you for your help and advice, but when they don't hear what they want to hear, they becomes upset and often belligerent! I always try to soften my advice or opinion whenever I think it will backfire on me, and sometimes it's just best to let the finder think what they want. But when it comes to mineral identification, especially tougher subjects like diamonds (especially in the rough), recommending taking them to a local jeweler is a really bad idea! It is my experience that most jewelers wouldn't recognize a diamond in the rough, much less other more common minerals, such as chrysoprase (I had a graduate in colored gems from the GIA once told me that my rough chrysoprase was "...the best rough emerald I've ever seen"!

I'm just glad that there are some real experts on this website, they notice these little fantasies!

William C. (CHRIS) van Laer: "I'm using the chicken to measure it..."
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Reiner Mielke March 25, 2016 04:11PM
"What bothers me most is that people will come to you for your help and advice, but when they don't hear what they want to hear, they becomes upset and often belligerent! " Happens here on Mindat as well, too bad there isn't a "back door " we can send them to LOL.
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Bob Harman March 25, 2016 05:07PM
I said it on page 2 of this thread, Dec 6 2015, and I will repeat it again.
The most hilarious thing to me are the posts claiming to have found lots of diamonds, both in California and elsewhere. Now if any of us had REALLY found these would we even think of posting our finds on any collecting website????? And, despite all the great pix on this website, not one of the folks finding diamonds has ever posted a single picture; no camera???? How odd!
BTW, I don't even post my best Indiana geode location on this website........ CHEERS.......BOB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2016 05:20PM by Bob Harman.
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Ranger Dave March 25, 2016 06:41PM
The responses here have been fascinating. They whine about non standard English, argue about hardness, and cover everything but answering the original question that was asked.

Yes, diamonds, not in a store or lost by someone, have been found in California. Mindat shows several dozen spots where diamonds have been found in California. The problem I saw is that many of those reports are very old and somewhat questionable. Many seem to be found in Northern California, an area known for it's volcanoes. The rest were placer finds. Most were very small, the size of a grain of sand and I have no doubt that many of those were bits of quartz rounded by stream action.

I've not heard of any place in the state to go look for diamonds. If you found one it would be a serendipitous find while gold panning.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis March 25, 2016 06:59PM
Ranger Dave Wrote:
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> Yes, diamonds, not in a store or lost by someone,
> have been found in California. Mindat shows
> several dozen spots where diamonds have been found
> in California.

Sigh....
Do you know of a verified report of diamond found in California? Y/N.

If Y, where is it and where is its verification report? State museum? Smithsonian?

If N, then enough said.
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Kelly Nash March 25, 2016 08:28PM
There are several (alleged) California diamonds in the Smithsonian Collection (the catalog is online - Smithsonian Mineral Collection Catalog). They're labelled as from Butte, Amador and El Dorado counties, and there are small photos of them in the catalog (and they do look like diamonds, for what that's worth). Whether they have "verification reports", I don't know. Of the few pictured on Mindat, the posters are, I think, somewhat credible (e.g. the one that's ex-Art Montgomery, photographed by Rock Currier, but with no scale or indication of where it is).
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Ranger Dave March 25, 2016 08:51PM
Owen Melfyn Lewis Wrote: Do you know of a verified report of diamond found
> in California? Y/N.

I see... If YOU have not heard of it, it does not exist.

Enough said.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis March 25, 2016 09:22PM
Ranger Dave Wrote:
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> Owen Melfyn Lewis Wrote: Do you know of a verified
> report of diamond found
> > in California? Y/N.
>
> I see... If YOU have not heard of it, it does not
> exist.
>
> Enough said.

No. The point is, where's your evidence? As the boys say over a Friday evening couple of hands, 'Put up or shut up' winking smiley
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Owen Melfyn Lewis March 25, 2016 09:37PM
Kelly Nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are several (alleged) California diamonds in
> the Smithsonian Collection (the catalog is online
> - Smithsonian Mineral Collection Catalog). They're
> labelled as from Butte, Amador and El Dorado
> counties, and there are small photos of them in
> the catalog (and they do look like diamonds, for
> what that's worth). Whether they have
> "verification reports", I don't know. Of the few
> pictured on Mindat, the posters are, I think,
> somewhat credible (e.g. the one that's ex-Art
> Montgomery, photographed by Rock Currier, but with
> no scale or indication of where it is).

I have a dozen diamonds in my little collection just itching to be made famous with an California attribution smiling smiley

Not to mention my heliodor (bought by way of quite a famous US collection btw) that is solemnly labeled as from the Gelte Krustle Mine in Tadjikistan. Indeed, perhaps it is so - but I have no verification of that . And nor has anyone verified the existence of any such mine winking smiley
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph March 25, 2016 09:44PM
You could take it further Owen and say that nothing is verified until you've been there, dug it out of the ground yourself, and analysed it yourself.
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Ranger Dave March 25, 2016 10:05PM
Owen Melfyn Lewis Wrote:
> No. The point is, where's your evidence?

That IS the point. Just because YOU do not see the evidence; it does not exist. I am under no obligation to appease your demands.
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph March 25, 2016 10:12PM
Evidence is what separates belief from fact.
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Ranger Dave March 25, 2016 11:32PM
Jolyon & Katya Ralph Wrote:
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> Evidence is what separates belief from fact.

No one has said otherwise. In polite, adult, conversations one asks for evidence. Childish, egotistical, demands that include personal attacks and condescension, will be, and should be, met with derision.

There are levels of evidence. If someone says they have a penny in their pocket, I'll believe them. My level of evidence for that would be small because it's not important. If someone says I owe them a million dollars, they had better provide uncontrovertible evidence.

That someone would make themselves upset because diamonds have been claimed to have been found in California is fascinating. Then they rudely DEMAND a high level of evidence tells me that something else is going on and that a conversation with that person would not be possible.
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Reiner Mielke March 25, 2016 11:48PM
Hello Ranger Dave,

If from personal experinece it turns out that every claim of a diamond has turned out not to be a diamond, it is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical. Therefore I see nothing wrong with such an individual demanding a high level of evidence. Now let me turn this around. If indeed someone has a diamond why would they object to, or get upset about, having to providing a high level of evidence? If that is the case I would suspect that as you put it, there is "something else is going".
In fact simply based on probability it is far more likely that such a person does not have a diamond and that "something else is going", rather than the skeptic having something else going on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2016 12:15AM by Reiner Mielke.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis March 26, 2016 12:19AM
Jolyon & Katya Ralph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could take it further Owen and say that
> nothing is verified until you've been there, dug
> it out of the ground yourself, and analysed it
> yourself.

Well, you might say that, Jolyon, but I couldn't possibly say so smiling smiley

To be serious and though it's a stiff recommendation, it has a certain value, don't you think? But surely one needs more than one specimen recovered from the same locality and by more that one person to have a reasonable level of authentication?

Fortunately, my interests lie in directions that make 'locality' an occasional 'nice to know' rather than an essential so I'm can afford to be quite relaxed about the whole business.
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Bob Harman March 26, 2016 12:44AM
REINER is spot on. Look at the wild claims made earlier on this thread and other gold find threads. "Lots of diamonds" "golf ball sized diamonds" and " hand full of diamonds" and similar stuff with gold finds. All with no pictures or strong supporting evidence and posting finds like all this on a collecting forum in the first place!!!??? Really now.
All this does nothing other than make open minded geologically oriented educated professionals and field collectors VERY skeptical. At least with a few specific localities and accompanying pix of a few small middling quality finds, we might give some credit to the posters, but the unsubstantiated wild claims are just not worthy of serious consideration. I actually do believe there are a few diamond localities in California and a few diamonds have been found, but most of the posted claims are just not credible. CHEERS.....BOB
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Ranger Dave March 26, 2016 01:07AM
Reiner Mielke Wrote:
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> Hello Ranger Dave,
>
> If from personal experinece it turns out that
> every claim of a diamond has turned out not to be
> a diamond, it is perfectly reasonable to be
> skeptical.

Skeptical, yes. A jerk, no. And based on personal anecdotes like the one you just used, no, it is not reasonable. Every claim has to be taken on it's own merits. No one has proven that every claim about every diamond found in California is false.

> Therefore I see nothing wrong with such
> an individual demanding a high level of evidence.

There is when it's not that important.

> Now let me turn this around. If indeed someone has
> a diamond why would they object to, or get upset
> about, having to providing a high level of
> evidence? If that is the case I would suspect that
> as you put it, there is "something else is
> going".

It's not that important. No one is going to die because of the claims made. No one is going to move to California to mine diamonds. No one is claiming that there is a commercial source of high quality diamonds in California. So, when you have personally seen every rock that's claimed to be a diamond from California, then your claim would be valid.

> In fact simply based on probability it is far more
> likely that such a person does not have a diamond
> and that "something else is going", rather than
> the skeptic having something else going on.

If someone here was being skeptical, that would be an assumption someone could make. Being abusive, acting like a troll, is not being skeptical.
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Ranger Dave March 26, 2016 01:10AM
Bob Harman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> REINER is spot on.

No, he was not.

> All this does nothing other than make open minded
> geologically oriented educated professionals and
> field collectors VERY skeptical.

That makes me skeptical of their "open mindedness."

> I actually do believe
> there are a few diamond localities in California
> and a few diamonds have been found, but most of
> the posted claims are just not credible.

Which is what I, and several others, have said.
> CHEERS.....BOB
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph March 26, 2016 01:18AM
There is nothing particularly unbelievable about the idea of diamonds being found in California - they have been reported from most US states primarily in alluvial material.

If an individual claims to have found multiple diamonds in California that starts to stretch credulity somewhat.
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Alfredo Petrov March 26, 2016 02:10AM
The diamonds from California gold sluicing operations mostly came from a time long before there was added locality value for collectors and, as far as I know, no significant number of them were ever sold to collectors anyway, so the economic motive to misattribute locality information wasn't there.
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Jim Robison March 26, 2016 02:40AM
Enough already!!!

Ranger Dave, most people who comment here and have credibility give their real name, not some made up name. Unless that is your legal name, you gain credibility here by telling us who you are. And claiming to be a "ranger" doesn't give me great confidence. What kind of ranger - forest, fire, park, casual person who ranges around looking for an argument, etc. We tolerate, most times, people who do not give their full names, because we understand that they may be reluctant to ask a question which might somehow highlight their inexperience. People like yourself pop up from time to time, want to argue and point fingers, and not truly listen to what is being said.

But that isn't my point. This site is called MINDAT for a very good reason. The information laid out in the various data bases is just that. Data on specific locations, minerals identified by confirmed methods, and a whole host of related topics. Notice the data specific requirements. The people who establish credibility contribute to the data bases, and/or are qualified to offer opinions that are reliable.

Now it is a fact that many people who join in our discussions are new to the hobby, or not technically trained, or do not have long collecting experience. And we welcome their participation because we respect people who genuinely want to learn about a location, or a rock/mineral, or many other reasons. If you persist in calling people trolls, then your credibility suffers a lot. People who persist in such activities may find themselves blocked from participation. I hope you are not one of those folks.

Tell us who you are please, and your experience in the matters on which you comment. So that you know, I have been studying and collecting for over 60 years and like many of the people on the site have degrees focused in mining, geology, geological engineering, and nearly 40 years of experience both in the mining business and in many things geologically and mineralogically oriented.

So when people ask for specific information, if it can be provided, that is the goal. There are also many threads on the site covering a wide range of related topics. Facts are foremost, along with educated (by schooling or long experience) opinions. And, you have seen, reasonable people often have different opinions about many topics, and we all learn from them.
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Doug Daniels March 26, 2016 03:39AM
Jim Robison - ten thumbs up!
Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.


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