Betafite!?

How you like such "betafite from Silver Crater mine" - [cgi.ebay.com]

This is only smudgy Pyrite pentagondodecahedrons intergrowth.

Hey Pavel!

Yes, that was a dumb mistake after I thought about it - however it was an honest one (and one that I bet could trip up a decent number of collectors). Obviously, Ernie Schlicter thought it was a good enough betafite to go in his personal collection! Lol.
I guess everybody makes mistakes.
Of course I cancelled the auction immediately. This just goes to show how even specimens with previous labels need to be looked at carefully...

Thanks for pointing it out!

Warmest Regards,

Jasun

Of course, as someone who is bummed out to see all kinds of crap and nonsense on ebay, it is always especially painful and embarrassing to make such mistakes...

We've all been there I suppose....

Guess I got out the Tar and Feathers for nothing.

Hi Jasun,
all is good, what was good finished.

I have one more question - which radioactivity lewel has specimen of thorite [cgi.ebay.com] ? I am afraid, that there also misunderstanding present and you have wulfenite xl instead thorite. So pronounced pinakoid isn't typical feature of thorite morphology.

Kind regards,
Pavel

Jasun, here is a photo of a 'real' betta fight. FYI.



Note the lasers fully charged on the right one...
Corie

Probably I had choose wrong place for my post. But radioactive minerals are holy for me.

Have you checked the radioactivity of the "betafite"?

This is a real Betafite from Silver Crater. Collected it less than one week ago and it is highly radioactive. Its a 4cm long cluster. Silver Crater Betafites are a brown or reddish and of course radioactive. This is a photo before cleaning just to give you an idea.

Andrew.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2009 03:26AM by Andrew Johns.

Hi Corie,

Love your scrappy Beta Fites. Lyla

Shame about that ebay listing, would have been a nice betafite. Just goes to show you you can believe everything you read, you need to judge for yourselves. Were human, mistakes happen.

Great Betafite cluster Andrew, many crystals. Here is a cluster i got at Silver Crater. Slightly over 3 cm long and highly radioactive predictably.

Nice fish, the right one is charging weapons. Engage evasive actions!

Michal.

I don't think that's the moral to take from this story. At least with good dealers, (Jasun's 4000+ feedback I think qualifies him as such!) I think you can be pretty safe believing their descriptions - I can't speak for him, but I know with the dealers I buy from, if something like this happened they would immediately refund it! So yeah everyone makes mistakes, but what's way more important is how those mistakes are corrected!

I think everyone appreciates pointing out mislabeled specimens, (I definitely do) but I know the last time I posted something in Frauds, Fakes and Marketing ploys, I was quite embarrassed when the dealer turned out to be very reputable and honest. I certainly wish that I had just messaged that dealer and asked about the specimen instead of publicly besmirching them!

Being a mineral dealer is tough work and I think the great ones who contribute tons to the hobby should get credit for it, and allowed room to make some errors; by calling them out in the Frauds forum, in my opinion, isn't giving them the credit they deserve. I should know; I did the same thing a couple weeks ago and felt really bad about it. If I were misrepresenting something I was selling, I'd at least like the benefit of the doubt and the chance to privately resolve the situation!

Sorry to be getting so defensive about something that doesn't involve me and it's nothing personal Pavel. I just hope no one gets the wrong impression about one of eBay's best mineral dealers; it hurts everyone involved in the hobby when people have lingering doubts!

Anyway, Pavel, I've been meaning to ask this question so now seems like the time. I assume you have a large collection of radioactives - how do you store them? I have a single small cabinet Torbernite that's pretty rich, and a tiny Zeunerite with just a few small crystals - but I have them sitting out on my desk in the living room, and I spend hours a day in the same room with them. Is this generally considered safe, or a bad idea? I would appreciate any opinions! Thanks and hope everyone's having a good night!

Ben Kirchner

Hi Ben -

As regards safe storage of hot rocks, here's an article written by Alysson Rowan of Mindat fame - in depth and a great read, and I would also say a MUST read.

[www.nexus08.clara.co.uk]

As for posting to the "fakes" thread - I also cringe when I see a post here that calls into question a dealer's listing, and therefore his reputation. But where else to post it? I daresay the Fakes board will get more attention than a more generic thread and that's a good and and bad thing depending on which side of the exchange you sit.

As a buyer who was considering the "betafite", I'd be glad to have the discrepancy discovered.

I'd also be glad to learn something as a new mineral collector - Reiner and I spent a good part of the evening last night looking at mineral structure and counting the sides on our betafite (which was darn tricky keeping track!)

As a dealer, I'd be mortified to see my mistake flaunted as if I was trying to defraud someone.

Perhaps the title of this board should be Fakes, Frauds, Marketing Ploys, and Other Innocent Errors.

Maggie

Thorite from Kemp looks like typical material from there, but measuring of radioactivity should determine if it is a U/Th mineral or not.

Hello All!

Yes, the thorite is CERTAINLY thorite - and a handsome one at that. Here are pics of our counter ticking up next to the specimen....

As for the "betafite," I wonder if the pentagonal faces have anything to do with its lack of radioactivity? Lol. Of course, as we'd suspect there was no activity.


Now, there were some ACTUAL betafites in the Schlicter collection that were quite handsome and I will be sure to get one of those up...


Also, I LOVED the pics of the "real" betta-fight! I got a great kick out of that one.

A lot of the Thorites from Kemp are flat and tabular like that. The only unusual thing is the surface texture on that one, haven't seen that before. All the crystals from there are highly altered so the surface could be something other than Thorite.

Hey Ben!

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words by the way!

I also wanted to note that Pavel sent me an apology via PM. There was certainly no need for an apology and I didn't take any offense.
I think it was clear to everyone that it was an honest mistake.

Pavel,

I am still curious about how you store your specimens. Your collection is perhaps unique in the world because it includes mixtures of unusual minerals, and many 'un-named' or 'undetermined' minerals, not to mention moon rocks, and thin sections.

-Dean NaAl[SO4]2.12H2O

Dean,

answer on your question is visible on head photo of my mindat home page - [www.mindat.org] Another 1/3 is located within my flat, and the last 1/3 in my lab. We have radioactive depository in our institute and I have some shelfs in cabinet here for the most RA specimens (over 2-3 mR/h similar to [www.mindat.org]).
I am unable to store such heavy specimens at home, because gamma-ray will penetrate through all my flat and will reach my neighbours.

I preserve in my home only specimens with RA level not more 3 mR/h in lead (more precisely Cd-Bi-Pb alloy) containers. But as I'd demonstrate here [www.mindat.org] - 30 cm of air are better than 16 mm of lead for minimizing of RA flow.

I don't remember where exactly I wrote story, how I'd spent about 4-7 hours per day during 3 years in gamma-field 3-4 mR/h without any negative consequences. RA level on my working place is 75 μR/h now (~2 upper normal level). But I am hope to be alive at least up to 2014.

I remember the scandal in my lab, when I forget cardboard box of U ore (10-12 specimens, 8-12 mR/h each, ~5-6 kg). I forgot to return them in depository after finishing of report about them. Year or more later they were found, because they gave ~1 mR/h in 5 m from the box. I had problems with administration, not with health.

Ben,

as Maggie already had wrote, lets read the article, written by Alysson Rowan, and follow basic rules of work/live with RA specimens:
avoid internal alpha-irradiation - wash hands, clean RA dust on working place, don't eat/drink/smole by dirty hands
avoid radon accumulations - draught is your friend in this sence
avoid exсessive/unnecessary outer gamma irradiation - see my expiremental data mentioned above.

And the main condition, don't afraid natural RA - paranoidal radiofobia is more dangerous then real irradiation from natural RA sources (U or Th minerals). Everybody remember anthrax paranoia in US, when antibiotics had kill much more peoples than anthrax itself.

What about artificial isotopes situation is quite different, they are much more dangerous than any natural mineral source able to be. So I am quite paranoidal radiofob in relation with Pu, Am, Tc, Co⁶⁰, Cs¹³⁷ and other similar things. I had REAL problems with my health (cancer) after visit of Chernobyl in May of 1986.

So you may to have your uranoan micas without any harm to your health in case if you'll be follow some simple rules of RA security.

I am like this Thorite from Kemp, but it is absolutely impossible for me to obtain it here in Russia. It will be arested on our custom immediately after crossing of border.

could be alteration on the thorite. It to me seems like it has the lustre of apatite.

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A buena hambre no hay pan duro