Top Class Michigan Copper Crystal value

Howdy All: This fabulous specimen measures 7cm x 4cm x 1.7cm. It is damage free and razor sharp. The main crystal is perched on a thread and measures 4.3cm x 2.5cm. I think this is one of the finest Michigan copper crystals I have ever held in my hand. Placing a price on such a top end specimen is out of my league.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 08:39PM by Jay Buscio.

What do you mean by Smithsonian grade? I wasn't aware they had a lot of broken pieces. Yes it is a good Michigan Cu. For a great Michigan Cu you need:
1) A Mine locality. So much was produced over such a long period that mine localities were often lost. Surviving localities and not just invented ones are rare. With the Mine locality goes established provenance.
2) Sharpness to the xl edges and not just globs of Cu. Your pieces pass this test with flying colours.
3) Classic easily recognizable crystal habit. So we want sharp cubes, dodecs, octos, tetrahexahedra as singles or twins. Your specimens show indistinct bear paw twins (Twinned tetrahexahedra) and so while very good, not the best.
4) Excellent aesthetics. Good separation of the xls, some 3 dimsionality (good all round), centred on some matrix perhaps, etc. Sadly there are more aesthetic pieces than yours.

These are the sort of criteria that make an unbeatable Michigan or any Cu. Your pieces while quite good are not the very best. The prices for these has risen considerably recently. But most recently with the "great recession" prices are uncertain with these mid range specimens suffering the most. Surprisingly the low end long considered dead is alive and very well, while the high end has taken a small hit. The crunch so far has been in the mid range. The price of course depends on whose buying and selling, but not with standing market gyrations, I would think many hundreds to a over a thousand US$ would be fair for both pieces. Of course you will hear probably true stories of such specimens going for many thousands. There are people even today with more money than brains. The trick however is to find them!!! If you can find them, you can make a lot of money short term. But if the're serious, they'll catch on and you'll lose a good customer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 10:01PM by Rob Woodside.

Ted: Sounds like you collect in the $25 to $50 range from what I gather. Research the photo data base here and show me a photo gram for gram of a better specimen. LOL

It doesn't matter what is listed on here as far as photos. To call something "Smithsonian" grade really doesn't mean anything to me. It's like calling something "Museum Grade" just to double the price of specimen to sell it; one sees this everyday on Ebay. If I see a lump of coal that is listed as "Smithsonian" grade, does it automaticaly double/triple it's worth??

As far as your copper specimen; it is indeed a nice piece, but definitely not what I would call the best of the best. It looks very much like a Keweenaw copper, but without a mine location, that detracts from its value. The fact that you have already admitted it is a broken specimen, that detracts from its value. As nice as your specimen is, those two items alone could devalue the specimen 50-60%, and without proper provenance alone, I know a lot of Keweenaw specific collectors who would not purchase. Rob is exactly spot-on in his comments and I would add that a specimen is only worth as much as someone will pay for it........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 08:28PM by Paul Brandes.

Jay, Who is Ted??? While not the best, here is a small Michigan Cu that gram for gram is worth more than your pieces combined!!!




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 10:03PM by Rob Woodside.

Jay,

I suggest you get you hands on a copy of the Michigan Issue of the "Mineralogical Record" and a copy of the "American Mineral Treasures" book; this will give you an idea of what the best coppers look like. You can compare your specimen to those pictured in those publications.

Best wishes,

Joe

Gram for gram, that specimen is better than all but one MI copper I have seen. At the Detroit show two (or was it three) years ago the Smithsonian displayed one of their coppers from the UP, and that one was similar to the one that Rob has pictured, but was an bigger, sharper and better colored dodecahedron.

My guess is the specimen in question here is worth a few hundred bucks. If it was mine, I'd try and ask 300 for it, but would be more than happy with 200.

I agree with Chris; I think his estimate is spot on.

hi, here is a specimen that was offered to me for about $400.00....which I passed on...not for price..the aesthetics did not do it for me...Joe

[www.mindat.org]

Just out of curiosity Joe, if you passed on the piece why do you have so many photos and why is it in your gallery?


Mike

actually, i was so seriously considering buying it, and then, the sale turned out to be for other specimens from the same party...it was almost a keeper...j

It may be Smithsonian grade, but it isn't Reeder grade. Lack of a specific mine does negatively impact the value of the piece.

Come on ...
this is a very nice copper spec. I find the discussions about "smithsonian grade" and else a bit ridiculous and i feel that this goes a bit personal (first 5 posts). I would love to have such a Michigan copper in my collection but i have to admit that a detailed locale would be improving the price on the market. But what is market value? I also sell some minerals from time to time and always wonder that apparently ugly stuff reaches the best price although i think that i also offer decent quality aesthetic specimens for a reasonable amount of bucks. It is the mineralogical value of the specimens, old labels documenting the history etc. So a good crystallized copper may be worth a lot but the same specimen with good documentation is sought after much more. And it depends on the customer what focus he has ... good crystals, nice aesthetics ... or more mineralogical background. Although for a seller the first features are at first sight more important i am very glad that mineralogy still has its impact. Also evident: people with this different focus will evaluate such a specimen in a very different way.
Nevertheless: great specimen!
Cheers
Roger

Jay,

I think Ted's comments were more than fair.

Mark.

I didn't mean to get personal and if my posts were taken that way I apologize. They are excellent specimens certainly worth hundreds, but I was a little taken a back by the claim that they were of the highest quality. I assumed that was meant by "Smithsonian grade", but as David points out there's lots of mid grade material at the Smithsonian and some of the study material would definately be called rare low end. As pointed out they do have better Cu. One thing to be thankful for is that these pieces have not been harshly cleaned and that does add to their value.

David, I no longer have the documentation that went with the little dodec. It is now at the Royal Ontario museum. I got the piece from George Robinson with several other Reeder pieces. This one might have been Reeder.

Jay, Mark, Who's Ted???

Michael, I'm sure if you told Joe you wanted that piece he could probably get it for you or one very similar. This is the way he attracts business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 12:41AM by Rob Woodside.

Ditto's to the above comments, especially David's about Reeder Quality copper specimens which I hadn't even thought of to mention. For a good look at world class copper crystal specimens including Reeder specimens, visit the A.E. Seaman Mineral Museum in Houghton, Michigan.

Rob also made a good point about cleaning. Years ago, it was common practice to dip beautiful crystals in muriatic or nitric acid to shine them up. However, this also destroyed them as it burned off the sharp edges that are so desireable with Keweenaw coppers. Lately, I have not seen a burned Keweenaw copper crystal group which is a good thing.

And now I'm beginning to wonder.............. who's Ted??

Paul, that may be because the pieces didn't have their brilliance fixed with potassium dichromate. (See Joe's photo for an aging example) A lot came out in the 1960's and after over 40 years, those that were merely acid dipped have got their cuprite patina back. You are right though to look carefully at the edges and faces to see if it has been harshly leached. Since the mines have all closed there is little new material in the market and I think people are a little more savy about cleaning and have stopped wrecking older pieces.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 01:04AM by Rob Woodside.

With regards to Ted:

I think Buscio screwed up when he was replying and put "Ted" instead of "Rob" ..... no one else had posted a reply yet....

I can totally see the similarities though: "R" is only two letters away from "T" in the alphabet, and both have three letters, with a vowel surrounded by two consonants.

On a more serious note, that's one nice copper. The value depends on who tries to sell it. Some would try for $200-$300, others might try for $6000-$8000. I mean, the right price is the one where both parties are willing to complete the transaction. That said, the price depends on who both parties are, the setting, etc....

Since those variables are pretty much unknowns, there is really no one, definitive answer.

And yes I know that wasn't helpful in the slightest..... but the price you would get really depends on how you try to sell it, and to whom. And keep in mind that the "how" can involve incurring costs as well....

ibrahim

Hi Jay,

It is one helluva copper specimen. Houston has the former Wayne State University copper that was my personal favorite. Stuart Wilensky has an awesome one in the newest Mineralogical Record. Yours is a stunning piece and in my opinion is worth FAR more than a few hundred bucks. Certainly the lack of mine origin detracts but this might be remedied by bringing it to someone who might know. There is a dealer in southeastern MI that has expert knowledge of MI copper and certainly the AE Seaman Mineralogical Museum in Houghton has many awesome coppers and a terrific staff.
Gorgeous piece....thanks for showing it!


Dana