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Chloromelanite

Posted by Ezekiel Hughes  
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Ezekiel Hughes February 16, 2011 02:39AM
I need a little help understanding this mineral(?)...actually, just about everything. I have done the Google thing already...I'm hoping to get some deeper insights into what it is exactly. Probably most importantly, is it jadeite at all?

~Zeke,
JadeJunkee
Washington State
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David Von Bargen February 16, 2011 04:25PM
It is either aegerine-augite or omphacite (intermediate minerals between sodium (jadeite or aegerine) and calcium pyroxenes). - from the 1988 article "Nomenclature of pyroxenes " http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM73/AM73_1123.pdf
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Michael Croxell February 16, 2011 08:56PM
To my knowledge it is the material marketed as Maw sit sit. The main source is the jadeite quarry in Burma according to a fellow I talked to in Tucson. Great looking stuff and costly for lapidary material. Mike
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Ezekiel Hughes February 17, 2011 05:18AM
Thanks...slowly working this out in my head. Thanks for that link...I'll be interpreting that for awhile. From what I've read else where, I came to the conclusion that Chloromelanite was basically aegerine-augite. Maw-sit-sit seems to have a something that I haven't seen noted for all Chloromelanites though...that being the chromojadeite (that's the same thing as kosmochlor right?). Point being I was surprised Chloromelanite was a synonym for Maw-sit-sit...but it makes sense as a variety of Chloromelanite i guess. but i don't see it ALWAYS noted as haveing aegerine-augite??? I see albite though.

The stuff I am thinking of isn't as flashy as Maw-sit-sit, probably because it lacks that chromium. It is noted as being mostly aegerine-augite. it looks like a dark green to black nephrite as seen in artifacts from the Northwest (Washington, BC Canada, Alaska)

Anyway, here's the follow up question. From what I have read, all the 'Chloromelanites', like the omphacites, are noted as containing proper jadeite, just not normally the component with the highest percent. Doesn't this percent thing imply these stones are rocks not minerals then? Sort of like how nephrite is seen as a rock. Omphacites are described as a combination of minerals...including both omphacite (a mineral) and jadeite. Is this a nomenclature problem? I see that Maw-sit-sit is a rock, so I assume chloromelanite is as well...but what about omphacite? seems like it is both a rock and a mineral.

I've also read that all these minerals (solid solution series) belong to the "jadeite group"...so how are they not considered jadeite then?

I'll leave it at that for now. thanks for your opinions. I hope I'm making some kind of sense smiling smiley

~Zeke,
JadeJunkee
Washington State
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Alfredo Petrov February 17, 2011 05:42AM
The problem with these names is that different people have used them in different ways that changed over time, sometimes just because analytical techniques got better. "Chloromelanite" has been used for green-black jadeite, aegirine-augite, omphacite... all of whose definitions themselves have at times been a bit fuzzy. And not all "black jadeite" is "chloromelanite" - some is the true species jadeite, colored black by microinclusions of graphite. For the sake of clarity, just strike "chloromelanite" from your vocabulary altogether ;))

The name "jadeite" itself is subject to some fuzziness, depending on whether the person using the term is talking about rocks, mineral species, or lapidary materials. As Mindat is a mineral website, we use the species definition: Na-Al-dominant pyroxene. The exact percentage of the Na-Al-pyroxene molecule is not important in the naming, it just has to dominate over the other molecules commonly present (omphacite, aegirine, kosmochlor, etc.) in the structure.

"Maw sit sit" is a rock name, not a single mineral. It is a mixture of several minerals, including jadeite sensu stricto.
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Ezekiel Hughes February 17, 2011 06:28AM
thanks Alfredo...so I was basically on a wild goose chase. here's a follow up question that should be easy to answer then. who are "they" that decides what is and isn't jadeite jade and what is thier criteria? (I don't mean mineralologists...talking gem community here) I realize this is a fluid issue...just want to know the current state of affairs.

what is your take on the term jadeitite?

In my opinion, all jades are rocks. As long as they are in the proper mineral series and LOOK like a jade gem stone they are jade....just have to qualify it. I suppose a certain toughness and density should be expected...yeah...not very scientific winking smiley

~Zeke,
JadeJunkee
Washington State
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jade fever June 09, 2011 10:55PM
I am curious about Cloromelanite as well. I've read that it might as well be called Jadeite. It certainly has the right density and hardness, at least the stuff I have found in northern california, and is perhaps more dense. The beach specimens fell almost meteor-like. Can anyone recommend a place to send samples to be tested? If the majority of the rock consists of the Jadeite Na Al-pyroxene group, I can then happily call it Jadeite- what awesome stuff!
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Yan Beaudet June 09, 2011 11:53PM
hi .i own a maw sit sit specimen ,a chloromelanite specimen and a african jade specimen (probably a green grossularite).i want to know if someon know the exact contains of each of this stone and if they can be classifieds as nephrite jade, jadeite or it's something completly different?it is their official name or a trademark name?i own many specimens of canadians jadeite or nephrite and they look very different from this rock.bye and sorry for my bad english.
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Jolyon & Katya Ralph June 10, 2011 12:06AM
maw sit sit is primarily the mineral kosmochlor

chloromelanite = very dark jadeite

african jade = grossular garnet
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Ezekiel Hughes June 10, 2011 05:10AM
What he said winking smiley...the Canadian material is nephrite not jadeite...that's why it seems so different...but a picture would help confirm... Canada has other jade like materials as well, including the massive grossular....but it is most likely nephrite.
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Lefteris Rantos June 10, 2011 07:32AM
Jolyon,

According to analytical results performed by Pavel Kartashov and available in http://www.mindat.org/photo-192144.html , http://www.mindat.org/photo-296139.html and http://www.mindat.org/photo-296135.html , "Maw Sit Sit" is a rock consisting mainly (in one case, about ~98 vol.%) of chromian Jadeite (with 5-6 vol.% Cr2O3 and composition ~Jad85Ksm13Aeg2), some chemically pure Albite impregnated with minute μm-sized particles of Kosmochlor that give it a very deep emerald-green color and minor Cr-bearing sodic amphibole (chromian Magnesio-Arfvedsonite).

In a simplified way, it could be termed as an impure chromian Jadeite, or - more correctly - a Cr-bearing jadeitite rock.

Also, some very interesting information on the compositions of Kosmochlor and the Cr-bearing sodic ampibole from the locality, can be found here http://www.mindat.org/photo-296137.html

Lefteris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2011 07:42AM by Lefteris Rantos.
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Yan Beaudet June 10, 2011 06:00PM
hi exactly what im looking for about maw sit sit but l have a other if the person who's posted this topics allow me to do it. i own many different specimen of supposed jade like:purple jade turkey ,translucent jade mongolia(look like rough tanzanite with iron stains)a blue russia than i buy under the trademark name dianite .black jade with quartz veins from arizona.black jade with magnetite from a unknow usa locality maybe oregon i think .and some white jade with orange or yellow spot from china .the only thing im sure it's than none of this specimens had been dyed in any possible ways .what are the link between all this minerals than they can be call jade.i want to know of minerals thet must contains to be put for sure in the jade family?maybe they are only minerals use to carving objects and it's why peoples sell them under the trademark name of jade and if it's that i want to know if someone know what really are this natural specimen than i buy?bye and thank for the infos about my maw sit sit specimen .
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Joaquin Dominick June 10, 2011 08:04PM
Here are several pictures of what I'm trying to confirm is Chloromelanite/jadeite. I haven't found any pictures of rocks like these online. Also wondering where I can send samples to be tested. Thanks -Joaquin
open | download - jem and mineral jade, rocks and matsutake 020.jpg (167.7 KB)
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Joaquin Dominick June 10, 2011 08:12PM
Here is another photo of Chloromelanite/Jadeite for verification?
open | download - jade rage 014_1.jpg (145.5 KB)
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Ezekiel Hughes June 14, 2011 05:52AM
to me they look they could be either Chloromelanite or "just" nephrite....one or the other for sure for most of those. you'll need to do an SG test.
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Jorge Dascal June 16, 2011 01:15PM
Hello Joaquin,

Please tell us if you tumbled or you bought the two "jade rage 014_1" tumbled stones?
Also please tell us if all of the "jem and mineral jade, rocks and matsutake 020" shown in the photo are from the same place.
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Jorge Dascal August 25, 2011 11:29AM
The two "jade rage 014_1" tumbled stones are Andes Jade (http://www.mindat.org/min-31328.html).

The "jem and mineral jade, rocks and matsutake 020" photos shows several well polished Andes Jade. The unpolished ones are not Andes Jade.
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Pavel Kartashov August 25, 2011 09:06PM
Yanick,
a "dianite" is trade name for blue nephrite from the single locality. It consist of different amphiboles and microcline, so it is real nephrite.
http://www.mindat.org/photo-132129.html and http://www.mindat.org/photo-203074.html
http://www.mindat.org/photo-404812.html and daughter photos
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The Old Fireman February 17, 2012 07:11AM
Sorry to jump in here. However, have been searching for a long time for someone to discuss this with.

My wife and I have a large rock, about 2x football size. It's so heavy, it has to be slid onto my hand truck to move it. It is a rather dullish, white color, with pale greenish circular areas showing through the white, as though the inside is the pale greenish color. The rock is oval in shape, and smooth than rough.* It is quite beautiful to us. I took it to Western Washington University, Geology Dept., for identification. The professor came out to my truck to look at it, and pronounced it to be mutton fat jade, probably coming from a Canadian glacier. He showed me the University's collection of mutton fat jade, and they were miniscule in comparison. He tried for a long time to get our big rock. He said he wanted it for himself. *About the color: the pale greenish circular areas are slightly indented in the white outer layer.

I realize I need to take a picture/measurements and attach; however don't have them now. We're just too excited to ask our questions! How do I go about identifying our rock? We're in Bellingham, WA, which I don't think has any other resources than Western Washington University. However, I don't find any references anywhere to mutton fat jade, as the prof called it.

Any help or information will always be greatly appreciated!
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Ezekiel Hughes February 23, 2012 08:17AM
I'm in Bellingham too...but go to the facebook page Washington State Jade Rendezvous: http://www.facebook.com/groups/103080216397469/


and jump on there..there is a testing program out of the same department you can link into as well as many of the local experts.

~Zeke
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Jason Evans February 23, 2012 12:38PM
I'm still trying to get a definite answer to my stuff that i purchased labeled as Jade from Burma, Zeke you have already suggested it is Maw sit sit, as have a few others but i would still like to get as many opinions as i can. I can only see 2 minerals present a very bright green mineral which i recon is chromo jadeite, it does seem to have different shades but i do think its the same mineral. There is also a greyish white mineral, perhaps albite, I have seen the term jade albite before so maybe it that. Jade is a really confusing term there is so much stuff floating around called jade my understanding is that true Jade is either nephrite or jadeite but it has to be pure, and it seems pure jadeite is actually very rare. It seems that many people will call a rock jade even if it has only a small percentage of jadeite or nephrite but the term jade doesn't really exist in a mineralogical sense its just a trade name.
I have also recently got this stuff sold as lavender jade, no locality given but it looks similar to some stuff i have seen from Turkey, which apparently contains about 40% Jadeite so if it is that, what can i call it, there must be a name for the type of rock?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 12:46PM by Jason Evans.
open | download - Maw sit sit 1.jpg (59.7 KB)
open | download - Maw sit sit 2.jpg (50.7 KB)
open | download - Lavender Jade 1 (1024x767).jpg (314.1 KB)
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Arthur Browne Jr. February 03, 2015 03:43PM
Hello "rock hounds:
I will post some pictures as soon as I get to them in my new galaxy 4. They are breath taking.
Arthur
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Arthur Browne Jr. February 04, 2015 06:08AM
Specific gravity 3.3
IMPERIAL JADEITE
CHLOROMELANITE
ARTHUR

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Arthur Browne Jr. February 04, 2015 06:43AM

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Arthur Browne Jr. February 04, 2015 06:43AM

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Rock Currier February 19, 2015 08:42AM
It doesn't look like any Imperial jade I have ever seen.

Rock Currier
Crystals not pistols.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis February 19, 2015 03:40PM
I think Rock spots the basic flaw in the description. Chloromelanite is not 'imperial jade'.

My *guess* from the description is that chloromelanite may be correct. A more accurately determined SG. determination of the RIs and blasting some light through under microscopic examination should be conclusive.

Chloromelanite is sometimes otherwise known as black jadeite. The green visible in thin section with some backlighting does not make this imperial jade or anywhere close.
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Arthur Browne Jr. May 02, 2015 09:27PM
Thanks for your keen observation. The specific gravity turned out to be 3.33. And of course light can pass through it. On to another matter. Do you think this stone could possibly be of Burmese origin? It is 8.05 ct dark blue transparent GIA report available.

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Owen Melfyn Lewis May 02, 2015 11:18PM
Not enough information to go on. But, since I enjoy games, my two pence will be placed on Australiangrinning smiley
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Doug Daniels May 03, 2015 02:16AM
And the contestants ask, what are the clues (as per the GIA report), other than that it's blue?
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Owen Melfyn Lewis May 03, 2015 01:43PM
It's an old and excellent maxim that only fools try to identify cut gemstones from photographs - let alone attribute any source of origin. That said, this does look like the very dark (and hence low quality), strongly blue-green dichroic sapphire that is found in some abundance in Australia. Don't ask me to extend my 2p bet though.

Possibly one of those low-quality stones that are rudely ripped from their settings before sending the settings to be melted down, to reuse the gold content. Such stones are often sold for a few dollars a carat at study stones and reference pieces. I have several (some considerably uglier then this). But I think one learns more from poor quality cut gems than one ever does from looking at the best hwever much fun the latter is..
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Ralph Bottrill May 03, 2015 09:39PM
Owen, you are probably correct on all points, but life's no fun if you cannot be foolish at times!

Regards,
Ralph
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Arthur Browne Jr. May 08, 2015 08:57PM

Thanks again. Doug here is a GIA report. I hope it can help. Owen here are some images for you to consider the approximate value of this gem. Remember the color is determined at 18 inches from background. The stone is dark but transparent according to GIA standards. NOT very dark. Inclusions and fingerprints coming. Thank you very much for your input.
Arthur

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Arthur Browne Jr. August 17, 2015 07:51PM
Could this be a rare form of jadeite?

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Owen Melfyn Lewis August 17, 2015 08:07PM
More like nephrite?
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Alfredo Petrov August 17, 2015 08:27PM
Looks rather too coarsely crystalline to be considered any kind of "jade", although it might match chemically.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis August 17, 2015 08:55PM
I've seen some NZ nephrite as coarse at that. Time for some testing, methinks....
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FreenAshlan April 30, 2016 04:50AM

Here are some photos of beads. Can anyone help ID. Thanks

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FreenAshlan April 30, 2016 05:15AM




Can anyone help me identify these beads? Thanks.
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Owen Melfyn Lewis April 30, 2016 09:09AM
Hi FreenAshlan and welcome to Mindat. You are running the same query in two separate threads. This won't get you any more or any different answers. Indeed, it may put people off. One thread only does the job.

The more distant shots of your beads show an attractive appearance but no one can tell you for sure from those pics whether or not the beads are maw-sit-sit/kosmoclor/chloromelanite . My best guess is that they are not. The only way to have any certainty is to have them properly tested. To do this properly requires breaking a strand and testing of (say) three of the beads loose. Simple testing is the determination of RI, SG and examination of structure under a microscope. Hardness testing can be done discreetly inside the mouth of a bead-hole where it can't be seen. Check with a solvent for dyeing; acetone is good 2-ethoxyethanol even better (more aggressive). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Ethoxyethanol. Make sure you have read the hazard and safety sheet before opening and using.

As you will know most bead material is faked and sold for only a few dollars a string. How much is the seller asking for these?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2016 10:49AM by Owen Melfyn Lewis.
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FreemAshlan April 30, 2016 03:35PM




Not too skilled with computer. Thank you for reply. Sorry for repeats. Not sure about selling. Trying to find out what they might be. Found at an estate sale with other beads. Local jeweler said possibly malachite. Other jeweler said chromium diopsis(sp?). They are really bright green under my Ott Light and head lamp. But they have black blobs mixed in. In regular daylight they look more uniform mottled dark green. Close-up they sparkle but not with metallic flecks. No layers like malachite. Trying to attach some close-up photos. Slightly irregular surface with a shine. Not super heavy.smiling smiley
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Owen Melfyn Lewis April 30, 2016 04:15PM
It's often easier to be sure of what some specimen is not rather then to say what it is. In fact, most testing processes are designed to assure what a specimen is *not*, the testing continuing until only one variety remains which passes all (or most) of the tests.

As you have observed, the composition is certainly wrong for malachite and I do not think that chrome diopside is likely either. My first thoughts are of glass with dirt stirred into the melt or dyed quartz. Plastic is another possibility - but you should know at once because of how light it is and how relatively warm it feels. Also a needle-tip, heated orange-hot will make a hole in plastic and produce a bad-smelling smoke.

All this requires testing. Just looking at a photographs of polished beads helps only very little and no proper opinion can be given on just that basis. Most local jewellers know what they can sell at a profit and what they cannot. That's a different skill to being able to should what something is. Many - most perhaps - have no testing equipment for coloured stones but just for testing diamond - which is the bulk of the value that they will trade. You need either to learn how to do the testing yourself (it takes a lot of reading, practical study and a couple of years to do it all), or find a gem-testing workshop near you who will do such work for you. However, the charge for doing such work is often out of proportion to the actual value of the pieces tested. Best to learn to do at least the most basic testing yourself.
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FreenAshland May 01, 2016 04:47AM
Thank you. I'll do the hot needle test that you suggest.
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what type of rock it is? August 01, 2016 11:43PM
i need info for this stone

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Doug Daniels August 02, 2016 04:14AM
Apparently unrelated to the original posting, but a few questions.....
Which stone are you asking about? I see three, which may all be the same, or not.

Do you have any properties? Such as hardness....

Where is it (they) from?

We aren't seers or necromancers, we need "hard data".
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Luca Baralis August 02, 2016 12:08PM
May be "aventurine" ?

Luca Baralis
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Fadly August 02, 2016 03:28PM
sorry my english isn't well,,first i want to thank you Mr. Doug daniels for fast respon to my matrix picture,,second- i dont have any hard data to this material,,the only data i had just quick check from my country lab but its not enough to me because it isnt complete.because not detail about RI and SG.the matrix came from my brother in irian jaya indonesia.the matrix its heavy and hard to scratch by knife and also transculent.

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