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Techniques for Collectorsminerals from courtland, AZ

24th Sep 2014 16:08 UTCDave Owen

I have been collecting in the Courtland Az. area and have some nice specimens however they are partially coated with a very hard red clay. I'm having difficulty removing it anyone have any ideas? Soaking, water gun and ultrasonic help a little but not that much. thanks

24th Sep 2014 16:16 UTCDave Owen

-- moved topic --

24th Sep 2014 17:17 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Are you equipped to handle dangerous chemicals? If not then it is not likely you can do anything more.

24th Sep 2014 17:53 UTCChester S. Lemanski, Jr.

Dave,

If the minerals involved are not water soluble, you might want to simply soak the specimens long term in Ph neutral water in a plastic container. Just soak them and forget about them for a while. Periodically check on them and try the water gun again. The specimens will be setting there and it won't be of any bother to you either way. Good luck! If the clay comes off and there is residual iron oxide staining, you may want to consider using an oxolic acid solution. Start with a weak solution and increase gradually until the job is done. Start with the worst specimens while experimenting with the acid solutions.

Chet Lemanski

24th Sep 2014 21:25 UTCKen Doxsee

Try soap and water if you haven't - the soap can make a remarkable difference over plain water.

24th Sep 2014 21:40 UTCPeter Haas

For this purpose, a combination of cationic and nonionic surfactants is more effective than the anionic/nonionic combination found e.g. in dishwashing liquids. If you have a fabric softener, try that.

24th Sep 2014 22:46 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I have a lot of material I have collected at Courtland as well and have not run into the same problem you have. With that coating the only thing I would suggest is to trim specimens and on fresh breaks the minerals won't be coated.

One question I have is that if the coating is post mine or do you think it formed while the minerals were forming. If post mine the material might be removed as above stated with liquid dish soap in the sonic cleaner. Some of that coating is pretty much not removable and that is why I mentioned a fresh break to open new pockets.

Do you know which mine the material came from in Courtland?

Good luck

Rolf Luetcke

24th Sep 2014 23:04 UTCWayne Corwin

Dave

If the clay is red due to iron, it can act as an epoxy, cementing the clay together, making it much harder to remove.

I've had pritty good luck using Super Iron Out to soften the clay, then I can blast a layer or 2 off, (Repeat as nessary).

What minerals are you trying to clean?

Could you post a few photos ?

25th Sep 2014 16:59 UTCDave Owen

Thanks for all the tips definitely gives me a few more things to try. Peter, I have never heard of using fabric softener would it be used straight or dilute? Also soak or put it in an ultrasonic? I will post a photo or 2 soon. Thanks Dave

25th Sep 2014 20:13 UTCPeter Haas

Use it like dishwashing liquid. Add a few drops. Depending on the compositing of the clay and on what else the dirt may contain, either the dishwashing liquid or the softener works better, but which one to prefer is difficult to say aforehand. Do not mix them, though, as this will make both of them entirely ineffective.

Leave them for a couple of days in the solution, then take them out and put it in an ultrasonic bath with normal water (otherwise, it may foam excessively). The idea behind the procedure is that the surfactant adsorbs to the clay and softens it (physically, this will reduce electrostatic surface potentials). This is a slow process and takes some time. Once this has happened, though, the ultrasound is much more effective.

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