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Generalnew format question

23rd Nov 2016 01:56 UTCJim Robison

I see that the format of these pages just changed. I assume the changes were to fit more information on a page. For those of us with 'tired' vision, the much smaller font size is a challenge. Is there any way to modify this, or are we stuck with the new text, which is much harder to read? Not only smaller sizes, but not as dark on the screen as previously. Definitely not an improvement in my estimation. Am I alone here, or are others also having difficulty?

23rd Nov 2016 05:09 UTCSean

You're not alone. The font is a bit mediocre, but I don't really have any "tired" eyes. I can read small font, but for some odd reason, this website's small font makes my eyes feel a bit uncomfortable. I had to tone down the brightness of my PC just to look at the new format. I will praise Mindat for trying to do something new, but this new format is just...okay. Not good nor bad, but just okay. The format is not too different, it's kinda the same but it works a bit differently. Plus, the changes the programmers made were not really negative. At least they didn't make a feature where we have to pay to do something basic(like making a post) nor make some other new negative features.

I guess the only way to fix this "problem" for now is to zoom in and out with your internet browser. Whenever you comeback on Mindat, zoom in. Once you're done, zoom out. I will admit that doing this all the time is tiresome.

23rd Nov 2016 06:50 UTCDale Foster Manager

Glad it isn't just me who thinks this new look is crap.

23rd Nov 2016 07:54 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

We experimented with many different fonts and sizes before settling on this. When you compare this format to modern social meidia sites such as facebook (which is used by most of you daily) the fonts here are two sizes larger!

I actually wanted the font size smaller than it is now, so this size is a compromise.

I know that changes like this can never please everyone, but I hope that most people will find the new format less cluttered and easier to read.

There are also now room for four times more messages per page than before meaning less page switching.

Jolyon

23rd Nov 2016 10:01 UTCAntonio Borrelli Expert

I miss the flag for new messages in threads. It was very handy.

23rd Nov 2016 10:13 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I checked facebook and its font is at least 10% larger on my browser!

23rd Nov 2016 10:24 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi Ralph

Ditto for me too.

I'm using Chrome as my default and I struggled to read the "new look" Mindat so I had to increase the font size to 120% and I'm using a wide format monitor.

The type font is ok though.

It's interersting that when I look at Mindat on my phone there doesn't seem to be any difference in the font size ? Not sure why that is.

So it only seems that my desk top version is the only one I have to adjust.

Cheers

23rd Nov 2016 11:09 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Mindat on left, Facebook on right.

I have changed the system so that new messages get flagged with the date/time in red.

23rd Nov 2016 11:30 UTCDale Foster Manager

Jolyon & Katya Ralph Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

There are also now room for four times more messages per page than before meaning less page switching.

The flip side to this means more scrolling to get to the last posting, whereas with multiple pages you could just jump to the last page to read the newest postings on the thread.

How about adding a 'view newest posting' button to short circuit the scrolling?

23rd Nov 2016 13:03 UTCGeorge Creighton

Just press the last post button beside ( to the left of ) that poster name :)-D

Regards

23rd Nov 2016 13:15 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Or just press the 'End' button on your keyboard. Or alt-down arrow if your keyboard doesn't have an 'end' button.

23rd Nov 2016 14:05 UTCWayne Corwin

I too miss the flag for new messages in threads, and don't like the print size change.

But I sadly guess it is what the future brings.
Maybe if it could all be in Bold Print, it wouldn't be so hard on the eyes?

23rd Nov 2016 15:49 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

If it were all in bold print, then how would you recognise text in bold print when it's needed?

23rd Nov 2016 15:54 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I've changed the font. Hopefully you'll like this one better.

23rd Nov 2016 16:06 UTCGeorge Creighton

Thx

23rd Nov 2016 16:08 UTCJyrki Autio Expert

ll looks strange when you are relly srolling. How small is their spacing!

23rd Nov 2016 16:34 UTCLuca Baralis Expert

IMHO, It is not a matter of size, but of spacing. Look at the welcome box on the home page: font is smaller but more readable.

23rd Nov 2016 17:22 UTCDana Morong

I find it hard to read also. Maybe I will find other things to do.

23rd Nov 2016 17:41 UTCKen Doxsee

If you are using a PC, hold down the control button and hit the + key to enlarge the displayed text and images. You can make it as large as you want. If it gets too large, just use Control -. --Ken :)-D

23rd Nov 2016 17:57 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Ok. We did some more messing around with fonts today.

If you are still having problems perhaps you can send me a screenshot of how it looks like on your computer.

23rd Nov 2016 18:20 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

if you don't like our font choices, you can chage it with a tool such as this:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/font-changer-with-google/jgjhhoglgjdklldfgoffdiaceffijeke

23rd Nov 2016 18:30 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

The biggest problem typographically, IMO, is the line length in relation to the font size. The lines are too long in proportion to the font height. This is also true for most web pages. Goof typographic design uses a multi-column format to keep readability maximized relative to line length. In a forum context, multi-column is not feasible and a larger font is a way around this problem. I personally to not think that facebook should be used as a typographic standard fro comparison.

The "new" is missing from unread messages.

The previous limit of 20 messages per page was very convenient for navigating through a high number of messages on a topic. A continuous scroll is a pain the A*s from a navigation standpoint.

23rd Nov 2016 19:11 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

In my humble opinion, the new format is clearer and easier to read than the old one.

And I think that many of problems pointed here are easy to correct just with the own computer configuration (font type or size, paragraph width, etc.).

Thanks for this new improvment!

23rd Nov 2016 19:20 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

One of the basic tenets of good typography is to never disrupt, distract, interfere, etc. between the reader and the author. Present day web page design is in general a big step backward in typographic design. The previous format was more readable and easier to use than the current one, in my opinion. In particular the long long line length disrupts the continuity in reading verbose messages. Putting the burden on the user to "adjust" their monitor and formatting settings to compensate for poor typography is not an acceptable solution in my opinion.

23rd Nov 2016 21:03 UTCJason Evans

No issues with the font size for me but it seems harder to read, I think its more to do with the contrast, I like Waynes idea of it being in bold print but I also understand the problems with using that, could it be made so that any print that is in bold appears a different colour?

23rd Nov 2016 21:14 UTCRui Nunes 🌟 Expert

I like the new font. It looks good through my glasses.

23rd Nov 2016 22:31 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

For me the new format is a significant improvement over the old - I found it very hard to read threads on the old format without being distracted by the enormous amount of clutter (such as the little icons next to all the text links) and the unnecessary large gaps between everything - add to this the annoyance of reading a new message and finding far too often that it referred to things on a previous page of the thread.

I have been very unhappy with the forum system here for a long, long time. I have looked at alternative systems, we even contemplated (but rejected) the idea of switching our forum entirely over to Facebook or some other network with a better and more modern interface). But this refresh to the design has convinced me there is some life in the old system yet - at least enough so that we can spend our valuable time on more important and productive mindat issues (such as the forthcoming complete rewrite of how mineral pages work.)

Yes, change is always jarring. But change is necessary. Trust me, you'll get used to it and you'll grow to like it. In fact, I fully expect you all to complain to me again bitterly the next time it changes :)

Jolyon

23rd Nov 2016 23:40 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

I am sooooooo happy management decided not to switch entirely over the Facebook! I don't have FB and really have no desire to get one. I agree that the new format is a nice refresh and at least for me, the font size is good.

Don't worry Jolyon, I'll make sure to complain about the next change even if I like it! :-D

24th Nov 2016 00:39 UTCAndrew Debnam 🌟

I will second that Paul, I am not on Facebook either, nor do I tweet which am sure most people would view as a blessing

24th Nov 2016 00:53 UTCWayne Corwin

I also miss having the topic title showing on each posting.

24th Nov 2016 02:19 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

I browse the message board or localities often on a mobile phone. I find long topics hard to scroll thru. Is there a faster way to the bottom on a galaxy s7?

24th Nov 2016 02:34 UTCJim Robison

Jolyon Thanks for making the change in the font. It is definitely far easier to read. I miss the things you didn't like, but understand your wish to change. No FB please. Though I go there, too many trolls likely to slip in and mess up what is here, a civil discourse information site. Guess I'll get used to the long smaller lines, though I agree that they are not as easy to read.

24th Nov 2016 08:37 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

Simple trick for those who think the text is too wide to read comfortably - shrink your browser window down and it will display the site as it is set up either for a tablet or a phone.

One other reason for the template change is for the forum to work more comfortably on such devices, seeing as they are becoming more and more important.

24th Nov 2016 11:04 UTCNiels Brouwer

For me, most of the changes are definitely a major improvement. I regularly read the forum threads on my phone whilst commuting, and the new format makes it a lot more legible and less cluttered. It's a lot clearer who is writing what, where previously I often found myself scrolling back because the relevant info was no longer on my screen.

However, as others have mentioned, I really miss the 'latest unread post' flag when viewing on my phone. Scrolling back is a lot more effort on a mobile device than with a computer mouse, and it takes quite a while to scan and read and scroll the now longer page. I would argue that if anything, you need this function even more when reading on your phone.

Another thing is that the format works fine when I view it in portrait orientation on my phone, but when I switch to landscape it wastes a lot of valuable space with huge margins on either side. Put together, they take up about a quarter of the screen width! This was already the case in the old format, but perhaps it might be worth adressing this too now that the format has been significantly improved.

24th Nov 2016 11:07 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

The date should be in red for unread post flags.

Looking at how we can make lhe layout better on landscape format phones.

24th Nov 2016 11:09 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Also happy you didn't switch to FB. I am not a fan of Mark Zuckerberg's experiment.

I will NEVER be on Facebook !

I find the change good.

Don't remember the old one.(tu)

24th Nov 2016 11:20 UTCNiels Brouwer

Jolyon & Katya Ralph Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The date should be in red for unread post flags.

>

> Looking at how we can make lhe layout better on

> landscape format phones.

A date in red for unread posts would definitely make it easier to pick up where you left off, but still you might have a lot of manual scrolling with the new longer page length. I personally would still prefer the flags, but I understand that it would require some careful rearranging and the red date is a simpler solution.

24th Nov 2016 12:21 UTCJerry Cone 🌟 Expert

The red dates worked for me the first day, they no longer do. Other than that, many of the suggestions are making the new format comfortable to deal with.

24th Nov 2016 13:43 UTCSean

Even though I do go on Facebook, I'm also happy that we didn't switch to Facebook. I can see why you were programming new things for Facebook. I understand why you wanted to improve the website, Jolyon.

You can probably see the flaws then everyone else can, like me for example. It's kinda like an artist who makes something, thinks it's s**t, but when you show it to some people or people seeing you're art, they'll most likely praise it. You'll be surprised because you didn't like the artwork at all and you thought nobody will like it too. I've seen something like this happen all time. Especially on Devientart.

24th Nov 2016 15:52 UTCJerry Cone 🌟 Expert

The red dates are back, thanks!

24th Nov 2016 19:01 UTCMario Pauwels

In this case I rather think old-fashioned; If it is not outdated and everything works properly, changes are not really that necessary.

Something else, but since we are talking about improvements. It would be great to have such a Mark All Forums Read button below on the Recent Messages forum page. Now we always have to go back first to the general overview Messageboard page to click there below on the Mark All Forums Read button.

Best regards,

Mario Pauwels

24th Nov 2016 19:09 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

For an example of what is not good about the new format look at the message "Photos of people who have minerals named for them" in the "literature" forum on the "General" tab and scroll down! Under the old format such scroll problems were limited to just on page limited to a 20 message region of the thread.

24th Nov 2016 19:28 UTCBecky Coulson 🌟 Expert

For my eyes, the format is great now - thanks. Oh please, no facebook!

24th Nov 2016 19:52 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I agree about the 'mark everything read' option. Maybe there is one hidden somewhere already? I'll have to check :)

Ronald, you have chosen an extreme example - this contains one especially long message (ie the list of mineral names.)

But even so, this is still better to me than splitting everything up over countless pages.

I think that's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

Jolyon

24th Nov 2016 23:12 UTCAdam Berluti

This new format is much better for viewing on a mobile device. It was really difficult to read through the threads before with the large gaps. More content per page is so much better.

Thanks Jolyon for your hard work

25th Nov 2016 00:37 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Looks great now, much better, easier on the eyes.

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