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Improving Mindat.orgSomaliland

1st Jun 2005 01:31 UTCkarl

In Mindat there is a group of entries under the name Somaliland. Would this be the same country as Somalia? if so i sould be changed so not to be confused with the sparitist region of northern Somalia that call itself Somaliland.

1st Jun 2005 01:48 UTCAlfredo

Hi Karl,



Somaliland is, de facto, a separate country now, although not recognized as such by most other countries. They are well-administered and not a chaotic band of anarchic barbarians like Somalia next door. At least the government of Somaliland meets in their own capital city, not like the "government" of Somalia, which has to meet in Nairobi because their own capital is too unsafe.



In the 1960s, African countries agreed to keep the borders arbitrarily imposed on them by the European colonial powers, in spite of the fact that these borders didn,t follow ethnic boundaries. Under that rule, Somaliland (a British colony) would have remained separate from Somalia (an Italian colony), but they experimentally decided to unite. This has not worked out, as you can see, and they are separate again. It will just take a few more years for the rest of the world to realize the reality (as it did with Yugoslavia too).



Cheers,

Alfredo

1st Jun 2005 03:38 UTCkarl

The problem is that Most world goverments and Somolia do Not recognize Somaliland as a seperat country. Does Mindat recognize the claim of soverignity or does it the follow the world goverments and recognize those nations only when they recognize them.



In this case event thought Somaliland claims independance the world theater and Somolia do not recognoize that claim. Do we follow that or do regonize the soverinity? If we do do we also recognize other claims around the globe? If so where do we draw the line?

1st Jun 2005 13:56 UTCAlfredo

Best follow the same practical system followed by National Geographic magazine: their maps depict facts on the ground, not abstract legal discussions. They show who actually governs a place, not who claims jurisdiction over it; so Tibet is shown as part of China because China in practice rules it, even though many people don,t think that rule is legitimate; the japanese island of Etorofu is shown as part of Russia because Russia in practice controls it, even though under international law it is japanese territory under russian occupation (at least until those countries sign a peace treaty ending WW2, which theyve not yet done). Similarly, Somaliland governs itself and doesn,t let Somalia tell it what to do, hence for all practical purposes it is no longer part of Somalia. I.e., if you want to go buy emeralds in Somaliland now, you better go with a Somaliland visa and not a Somalia visa; how much clearer does it have to be?

1st Jun 2005 23:54 UTCJolyon

I don't mind to follow a system as long as we agree on ONE system to avoid any future political debates and problems (eg the pro/anti Tibet debate). This site shouldn't be used for those reasons.



Jolyon

2nd Jun 2005 06:07 UTCAlan Plante

I think it's sort of a case of the cat being out of the bag - whether or not the farmer who claims ownership of the cat likes it or not... :~}



Let's put it this way, Taiwan declared it's independance from mainland China quite some time before other governments recognized it as an independent island - but it was, de facto, independent, calling it's own shots. (As does Somaliland.)



If we were to listen to China - even today - Taiwan would be listed as a province of that country...



:~}



Alan

2nd Jun 2005 15:02 UTCJolyon

The danger with the 'who governs' rule is that a 1990 map would have shown Kuwait as the 19th province of Iraq.



Jolyon

2nd Jun 2005 16:31 UTCAlan Plante

That's okay -



I still look at Tibet as a soverign nation that is under the control of an invading country - have done so all my life...



:~}



Alan

2nd Jun 2005 21:25 UTCAlfredo

Always seemed a bit ironic to me that we pigeonhole our minerals, generally many millions of years old, using political boundaries - such young, unstable, fluid lines! All created in the very late Quaternary. Wouldnt it be more appropriate to use plate boundaries as our highest heirarchy, rather than coountries? :-))
 
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