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LocalitiesGreat Hill cobalt mines, Cobalt, East Hampton (Chatham), Middlesex County, Connecticut, USA

24th Oct 2011 17:36 UTCAnonymous User

10/24/2011


I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible assayer that shows gold in the state of Connecticut.


Charles B Chapman

Geologist, BSc 1965

audaciter@att.net

24th Oct 2011 20:43 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Your alpha designations aside, exactly why are you throwing down the gauntlet and in such an adversarial tone? Curious first post. Inasmuch as this is state property with rules prohibiting collecting in place, I'm certain that your challenge will go wanting. But as I understand it, the presence of gold here was not historical gossip.


David S. Bernstein, Esq. (1988)

24th Oct 2011 21:10 UTCAdam Berluti

Its also been found in Leadmine Brook in thomaston CThttp://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=6404. I've seen pictures in Rock and Minerals showing people panning. I have also read in Stories in Stone (by Jelle Zeilinga de Boer) I will look for more articiles when i find them.


-Adam

24th Oct 2011 23:06 UTCRowan Lytle

The Cobalt gold is actually a vein of quartz with arsenopyrite, a sulfide mineral. sulfides often contain gold and this is one such deposit.

-Rowan Lytle

25th Oct 2011 03:19 UTCAnonymous User

10/24/2011


Repetitious recitation of apocrypha does not produce scripture.


Show me the assays.


Charles Chapman

25th Oct 2011 05:08 UTCKeith Wood

So, what will qualify as satisfying your demand? Credible assayers, with whom I deal constantly in my line of work, can accurately and repeatably assay gold in the fractions of a part per billion. Is there some threshold you need to see to admit your defiance was misplaced? In my line of work 25 ppb is considered a significant anomaly at the grassroots level to warrant additional attention in many cases. Would that suffice? Your challenge specifies nothing, so technically, evidence of ANY gold at all in any sample of natural material from a credible assayer would suffice to overturn your contention that there is no gold in CT.


Come on...Don't make us guess...What do you want?

25th Oct 2011 07:44 UTCSam Cordero, Jr.

Heck, I even heard of a diamond being found. Glacial deposit, probably from Canada which has diamonds. Not sure on this one though.

25th Oct 2011 10:55 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

We had a thread on civility. I think this moment is the perfect teachable moment showing that sometimes we must stray from good intentions.


Lighten up, Charles. And who are you that you MUST be shown anything? Write an article and make a splash if you must but don't make demands. It doesn't go over very well.


An article concerning gold in Connecticut for those interested.


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1147564/the_gold_rushes_of_connecticut_and.html?cat=8

25th Oct 2011 13:54 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

I'm sorry I can't physically produce an assay on this web forum, but here are the references that describe the occurrence, which have long been posted on the locality's mindat page:


- Chomiak, B. A. (1989): An integrated study of the structure and mineralization at Great Hill, Cobalt, Connecticut : University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut, 288 p.

- Gray, Norman H. (2005): The Historic New-Gate and Cobalt Mines of Connecticut. Field Trip A1 in Guidebook for Field Trips in Connecticut, New England Inter Collegiate Geological Conference, p. 9-18.


Granted, the first reference is difficult to obtain, but Comiak's adviser was Norm Gray who summarizes her work in the second reference, the critical text has also been up on the locality's mindat page:

"Native gold, generally as micron sized grains, is found, along with pyrite and chalcopyrite, in a network of thin fractures and veins cutting the arsenopyrite. Although much of the gold is very fine grained and is difficult to see, even with a strong hand lens, grains up to a mm are present and are quite noticeable on bright sunny days." Gray (2005).



Here's the text from the Hartford Courant's report on the find by Frahm, Robert A. (1986): Hills of Cobalt Hide a Real Gold Mine, Geologist Says. The Hartford Courant, vol. CXLIX no.66 (March 7, 1986).


Gold samples discovered last spring by University of Connecticut geology students on a mapping expedition in the Cobalt section of East Hampton are far richer than the ore in most U.S. gold mines, a UConn geologist said Thursday.

Mining companies already have expressed interest in the findings which are to be presented at a meeting of the Geological Society America Thursday in Kiamesha Lake, N.Y.

“This is very rich gold ores,” said geology professor Anthony R. Philpotts, who led the expedition in the Meshomasic State Forest last May.

“We’re interested in it purely from an academic point of view, but it has economic possibilities,” he said.

He said samples tested by the U. Geological Survey had concentrations of gold ranging from 1½ to 6 ounces per ton of ore. Six ounces per ton is about 100 times the concentration typically found in North American gold mines, Philpotts said.

“That’s a fantastically rich strike if it has any size to it,” said Richard Stumbo, vice president of the Homstake Mining Co., based in San Francisco.

Stumbo, who said he had not heard of the UConn discovery, said mining companies would have to answer variety of questions before determining whether operations would be profitable State regulations, environmental issues, and the volume of ore would have to be ascertained, for example, he said.

“If there is only 100 tons of it, its not really economic,” he said.

“Yeah, that’s exciting,” said Robert Altamura, a geologist with the State Department of Environment Protection. “How extensive the deposit is, is the next logical question.”

Most of the land on which the veins are located is state owned, but Altamura said he was not certain about the mineral rights.

“It was deeded by a fellow who kept the mineral rights - that’s the story as I’ve heard it.” he said.

The gold was found in veins on long-abandoned cobalt and nickel mines in the Cobalt section of East Hampton.

“If those veins extend over any great length, and there are more veins than we see on the surface,” Philpotts said, “you could see the possibility maybe a mining operation could be started there.” Mining ore of such a concentration “would be extremely profitable to a commercial mine,” Philpotts said.

After the discovery in May, a handful of mineralogists and amateur rockhounds came to see for themselves, but the initial interest faded.

“It was big news then. We were quite elated over the discovery said Alan H. Bergren, East Hampton’s chief administrative officer.

“I think we’re proud to know our land is worth more than we ever thought of,” he said. “But don’t think it’s going to change the lifestyle of any of our residents.

Philpotts said individual gold seekers should know that taking ore samples from state-owned property is against the law and would be a waste of time because extracting gold from the rock would require sophisticated machinery.

He said several mining companies had expressed interest in the findings, but he would not name them.

The U.S. Geological Survey tests of the UConn samples are reported in a scientific paper written by Philpotts, Randolph P. Steinen, an assistant geology professor, and Beverly Chomiak, a graduate student.

Chomiak is mapping the geology of the area, and another graduate student is using sophisticated metal detection devices to trace the veins through areas where they are not exposed on the surface, Philpotts said.

The veins are visible for only about a half-mile before disappearing.

Without further examination, “there is no way of ascertaining what the rock types are beneath there,” he said.

He said he was not surprised the results of the tests because flecks of gold were visible to naked eye in some samples found during a return visit last summer.

The veins – sprinkled with specks of gold the size of dust or sand - are 1-foot-wide to 3-foot-wide strips of quartz.



Norm Gray holds field trips there regularly. My wife has attended and seen the visible gold - no assay necessary. But I'm not the expert, why don't YOU (Mr. Chapman) talk to him - Campus Information (860) 486-2000. In fact, some of the geologists mentioned in the article by Frahm will be at the Geological Society of Connecticut meeting on November 4 at the Peabody Museum in New Haven, Randy Steinen is the treasurer. Here's a link to the their web site with details on the meeting, anyone can attend, and you can speak to them personally about it:

http://66.147.244.248/~geologi1/

25th Oct 2011 14:23 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

I see Bob Altamura , former state geologist is quoted Fritz. I have had contact with him concerning his rediscovery and report on the Norwalk Silver Mine. I'll have to drop him a note concerning this.


Excellent reporting, as usual. I'd hit the like button if I could.

25th Oct 2011 23:06 UTCFred E. Davis

Charles Chapman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible

> assayer that shows gold in the state of

> Connecticut.


I'm in Connecticut, there is a ring on my finger that is also in Connecticut, and it has the karat value stamped on it. Thus, as stated in your challenge, I have demonstrated the occurrence of assayed gold in the state of Connecticut.

26th Oct 2011 01:37 UTCAnonymous User

10/25/2011


I am gratified by the response to my challenge. I am glad there are people who care, but disheartened that the responses simply repeat the same myths.


Keith Wood’s response is a start in the right direction. Thanks to Harold Moritz for his efforts; the contact list is useful.


The Mindat page we are talking about quotes Gray as saying 6 Oz per ton, which is preposterous…do the math. 25 ppb amounts to Reductio ad absurdum. Let us use 0.05 oz/ton.


As to a credible assayer, I’ll accept e.g. ACTLABS (Canada), an industry leader in exploration assaying. Furthermore, the identification of gold and its quantification must be done by methods other than optical or the opinion of the author.


Certificates of assay by a credible assayer.


Charles Chapman

26th Oct 2011 02:42 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Peer reviewed theses and scientific papers by credentialed, professional geologists at a major university are not myths. You've provided no information on why it is a "myth". The authors are not interested in mining and have academic reputations to maintain, why would they create such a "myth"?


"the identification of gold...must be done by methods other than optical or the opinion of the author". Really? Says who? There are many, many minerals listed on mindat that were identified by visual assessment by all sorts of folks, which if you look at what that means on mindat, it means it includes all the usual mineral ID techniques like hardness, luster, streak, SG, etc. I think the people who wrote the papers are qualified to identify gold. If they arent, then everything on this site is worthless.I dont know of any mineral that has to have an assay at some arbitrary concentration to be included on a locality on mindat. It's irrelevant. This is a database site, not a mining feasibility study. In any case, assays are not the point. The point is the gold exists as distinct, visible grains, as documented in these papers, so it's included on the locality page. There's nothing special about gold as far as mindat is concerned, it's just another mineral occurring at this locality.


Now you have the references and the researchers involved. So rather than having us run around looking up stuff on your behalf for free, go get some samples and do the work yourself.

26th Oct 2011 04:06 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

I received a very detailed response from the former Connecticut state geologist together with a partial bibliography. But I'm loath to post it for a variety of reasons not the least of which is we don't know why this challenge was issued. To paraphrase Fritz, don't make people jump through hoops for you. Good luck in your quest for truth.

26th Oct 2011 06:32 UTCSam Cordero, Jr.

The little leprechaun at the end of the rainbow might not like anyone fiddling with, "me gold". Just kidding. :P

26th Oct 2011 13:29 UTCKeith Wood

I'm with Harold. Do your own work. And lighten up on the skepticism of others' good work.

26th Oct 2011 14:26 UTCMark Gottlieb

Been following this thread with interest. A lot of effort being expended to satiate what seems to be a simple troll attempt. A lot of respectable folks have opined and the references are out there, what this guy's point?

27th Oct 2011 00:34 UTCAnonymous User

10/26/2011


My challenge is simple and I’ll repeat it; I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible assayer that shows gold in the state of Connecticut. Anyone means anyone. Gold means significant gold. Credible, means an entity in the business of assaying and not some grad student with a chemistry set.


I have been approached over the years by people who wanted to get me involved in their gold mining adventures in CT. My first condition for participation has always been a signed certificate of assay by a credible assayer. This includes one guy who wanted us to go to Cobalt, at night, dressed as Ninjas, with Radio Shack metal detectors, and bags for carrying away loose nuggets. Obviously, he had no assays.


The provenance and chain of custody of the sample(s) is also a valid question. It would be nice if the collection and analyses were done according to Canada’s National Instrument 43-101.


I issue my writ of mandamus: Show me the assays.


Charles Chapman

27th Oct 2011 03:20 UTCKeith Wood

Why do you think anyone here would bother with all that just to satisfy you? After all, the majority of the people here have been here for years making valuable contributions to Mindat, but you just arrived, have contributed essentially nothing to Mindat, and introduced yourself by being confrontational and demanding. The fact that you have been treated with more courtesy than you have given, by yards, is a testimony to the kind of people Mindat has attracted over the years.


If you would like to be a real contributor here may I suggest softening your tone and adding some useful information to the site, rather than simply barging into a forum that was fine without you and throwing grenades around.


And for the record, 25 ppb is NOT reductio ad absurdum, it is a significant anomaly. Even if anyone were to take you up on your challenge - which I hope nobody bothers to do - you don't deserve it - your threshold is too high. I mention this for the other good readers here. 25 ppb would be evidence that a hydrothermal system existed capable of transporting gold, and that it did in fact transport and deposit it. 0.05 oz/ton (equal to 1506 ppb) is a mineable grade, and is far in excess if the concentration necessary to document the occurrence of gold in the state.


Just as an example, at the gold mine where I work, which has produced millions of ounces of gold, and has millions more in reserve, I recently took a sample of an interesting rock that was exposed in an incidental road cut some distance from the mine itself. It assayed 19 ppb. You would think I would not care about such a low value. However, because of the context, and my knowledge of the geology of the area, and of nearby deposits, I was actually rather encouraged by this result. Not that it means I have found a new gold deposit to mine, but because it showed that a system had indeed been present. It increased the exploration potential of that area. With more supporting evidence and a good structural/stratigraphic concept, we may end up drilling that location. So that is what we are developing now, using additional exploration techniques.

27th Oct 2011 03:32 UTCDavid Zimmerman (2)

I usually would not find myself addressing a topic such as this, but with gold prices hovering around $2K/OZ, I doubt that Charles has any interest in proving a point, but rather enriching his fishing expedition. Charles really needs a lesson in communication skills. I wish the admins would've nipped this post in the bud before Harold expended so much energy.

27th Oct 2011 21:33 UTCAnonymous User

10/27/2011


I welcome Mr. Wood’s input and I am glad to hear that he is employed in gold mining.



Noranda, in its annual report for 2010, states that its world-wide reserves of ore are more than three billion tons at an average grade of 0.029 oz/t or 873.48 ppb. This is about 35 times more than your 25 ppb. Crustal abundance of gold is about 0.005 ppm or 5 ppb, so, your 25 ppb is certainly anomalous in that respect.


“Gold”, in the context of my challenge, would then seem to lie somewhere between 25 and 1000 ppb. However, I did not say whether or not we had to have “colors in the pan” or a “bonanza”. I am reluctant to set the lower limit at 25 ppb because I can find no information on what background is in CT.


“Amber” claims to have a trove of unreleasable documents from unimpeachable sources that prove the existence of abundant gold in the state. If so, prove it. Release them. Take a loath off.


I’ve been “Doing the work” for quite awhile, but all the work I have done has dead-ended because there are no assays to back up the tales of treasure in them thar CT hills.


Show me the assays.


Charles Chapman

28th Oct 2011 03:35 UTCKeith Wood

Yes, but you seem to be missing the point. Why do you think it is good manners to barge in here making demands? Please answer this one question.

28th Oct 2011 05:52 UTCD Mike Reinke

David and Kieth, excellent answers, Thank-you. Mindat is an enormous labor of love on the part of Jolyon and his many assistants. Even if they do in any way profit from this, they deserve it. Charles needs to at least apologize. There is gold dust, there aren't nuggets laying around. Good enough.


Mike

28th Oct 2011 17:49 UTCAnonymous User

10/28/2011


I apologize. I never intended to incite a rancorous debate. I had no idea I would be dealing with the staff at Mindat. I thank those at Mindat for their efforts. My reason for entering this, the way I did, was intended to produce a retaliatory flood of assays from the general public. Instead I have offended the people who are in a position to help.


Who am I? I assure you I am not in this to add to my own wealth. I am retired, having earned enough in exploration geology and mineral economics to afford to do so. I have a B.Sc. in Geology and a Masters in Mathematical Economics. I have worked as a geologist/mineral-economist for Kennecott, Texas Gulf, Chase Econometrics, AMAX, et al. I’ve done consulting work, in one capacity or another, for other mining companies. In the 1980’s I worked with Atlantic Technologies, et al, on a metals “Trade Flow” project in Europe: mainly in Belgium, Germany, and France. I have been involved in “wheeling and dealing” in mining in Australia, Canada, Alaska, and the lower 48. Connecticut has been my home since 1976. I would never use any of this to overpower. I respect the input of all, be they “Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief”.


I do intend to continue to look for any pertinent assays and request help from anyone able to do so.


Not Goodbye…Until Later,


Charles Chapman

28th Oct 2011 22:36 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Hello Charles,


I'm an assayer in Southern New Mexico - my lab is in the old mining community of Organ. Over the years I've been exposed to a number of attempted scams and, hopefully, exposed a few. You mentioned "Amber" in a previous post. Is this a person? Are you being approached as an invester? Considering your stated background, to tell you how to deal with such approaches would be "preaching to the choir" and if this is the reason for your "challange" you've picked the wrong venue. A good, old fashioned fire assay on a sample you've personally dug is the only way you'll find resolution to your challange.


Don

28th Oct 2011 23:09 UTCKeith Wood

Thanks Charles. At least you were man enough to come back and make up. Most folks skulk off into the dark after catching the kind of pushback you got. If you ever get your assays many here would be interested. Best...

29th Oct 2011 01:27 UTCRowan Lytle

I do hope you add photos and locality data Charles, a few of us are hard working to maintain CT information.

-Rowan Lytle

4th Nov 2011 16:50 UTCAnonymous User

Back to Don Saathoff, assayer in Southern New Mexico.


First of all, I never meant to limit my argument to just the Great Hill Cobalt Mine and the work of Chomiak, Gray, and Philpotts. I invite anyone to respond with positive or negative results from samples taken anywhere in CT.


Connecticut is the State of P.T. Barnum and Mark Twain. Attributed to them are “…a sucker born every minute” and “Gold Mine…A hole in the ground with a liar on top.” However, I personally think that most local reports of gold are due to honest misidentification of other minerals, especially weathered Biotite. “Uneureka! I have not found it”, is not shouted out. Negative results on things that glitter are seldom published in the academic or popular press.


My last assay from CT was on a gossanous looking lump with relict boxworks suggestive of sulphides. It came back showing 2350 ppm Pb and Ag at 1.27 ppm: consistent with Galena and trace Silver. Gold, if there at all, was less than 2 ppb, i.e., below the limit of detection. This assay can be had for the asking.


Charles Chapman

1st Dec 2011 02:07 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

04353930016018085618740.jpg
Thanks to the efforts of helpful people at the Connecticut Geological and Natural History Survey, I have obtained a pdf copy of Beverly Chomiak's Master's Thesis on the Cobalt area. As a result of their help this form of the document will soon be readily available to anyone, as soon as I figure out a way to photograph for them the large geologic maps and cross-sections so that they can be included. In it is a table of results from the assays done on the arsenopyrite veins by the USGS. Know that I was interested in obtaining this never published paper long before this "challenge" as I am interested in all things mining and minerals in Connecticut. This is an exhaustive study that dispels the myth that there is no gold there (way more than 25 ppb) and also that the cobalt ore is a Co-Ni-rich loellingite and gersdoerffite (by crystallographic and microprobe analyses), not iron-rich chloanthite as perpetuated by Dana's System. In any case, I am posting it here not as a result of this "challenge" (which, BTW, implies some sort of reward for the winner, but which was never offered by the original poster) but because it is essentially public, scientific information we all have a right to see. I whole-heartedly agree that claims of gold veins anywhere else in Connecticut have not been credibly, publicly established (there is placer gold, but that's another beast), but just because one claim is false does not preclude another from being true. And besides, P. T. Barnum NEVER said "There's a sucker born every minute."


From: Chomiak, B. A. (1989): An integrated study of the structure and mineralization at Great Hill, Cobalt, Connecticut : University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut, 288 p.: pages 153-155


Assays

Emission spectrographic analyses for minor elements in the ore from Winthrops Lode are presented here (Table 20) with the permission of John Philpotts, U. S. Geological Survey. Two samples of the discovery boulder of massive arsenopyrite were included. The sample taken from the vein in situ carried bunches of massive arsenopyrite and was slightly altered (Unit A). The gold shows a positive correlation with Ag, Bi, Mo and Cu, Zn and maybe Pb.




Petrography

The important textural relationships between the gold and arsenopyrite mineralizations are displayed in the discovery boulder. A very coarse grained aggregate of arsenopyrite comprises the massive ore (Figure 39). Individual grains of arsenopyrite exceed many millimeters in size. Large irregular grains of pyrrhotite occur as inclusions in the arsenopyrite. Quartz filled fractures freely intersect the massive arsenopyrite, dividing many individual grains. Some of the fractures intersect pyrrhotite as well. These pyrrhotite grains are altered extensively to pyrite around their rims and their cleavage traces (Figure 40). Some of the veins carry pyrite, minor chalcopyrite and rarely granules of native gold (Figure 41). Grains of pyrite nearly always are in regular geometric shapes; the chalcopyrite more often is in irregular flakes. The two sulfides may be intergrown. The gold assumes irregular globular forms and occurs as independent grains in the sulfide bearing quartz veins. The vein quartz itself is mostly coarsely crystalline.

1st Dec 2011 14:27 UTCBart Cannon

I've collected in 40 of the 50 states. My trip to the Great Hill cobalt mines remains as one of my favorites. Open woods, pleasant stream and quartz everywhere. I even found some radioactive minerals in a pegmatite.


Just after the New York World's Fair in 1964, I pestered my family into visiting Camp Jenkins and then the workings in Mine Brook.


I was fourteen.


I hauled out a small gunnysack of quartz with silvery crystals. All of which I thought were cobaltite, but after using a crummy hand lens once back home in Detroit, I decided that they were all arsenopyrite. Not the slightest bit of cobalt bloom on any.


I still have a couple of specimens. I will probe a few to see if they have any cobalt or the controversial gold. Sometime, before I die.


On page 37 Morrill lists a dizzying array of cobalt and nickel antimonides and arsenic sulfides. But no gold. If I were able to return legally, I would use my current method of sitting down, wearing an Optivisor and breaking every rock on the dump in half.


The inspiration for the visit was my third mineral book, after the Golden Book and Pough's book. "Mineral Guide to New England" by Philip Morril and "and a lot of other people". copyright 1963


Has anyone re-published this?


Bart

1st Dec 2011 15:15 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Bart:

I've got a ton of old Connecticut mineral reference material but have not seen that Morrill book. Is it scannable? There may seem like a dizzying array of minerals at Cobalt, but they are distributed over several different and typically very thin veins, and all are generally fine-grained so mostly best viewed in thin section etc. Some are from old literature and are just plain wrong. The cobalt-nickel veins are not really exposed any more cuz the surface expressions were mined out and covered long ago, so finding them is very unlikely. The only thing still readily visible is the arsenopyrite in quartz and that's why you got plenty of that. Morrill would not include the gold as that find was only confirmed in the 1980s and is only rarely visible. It is a fun place to walk around, especially down the gorge formed by Mine Brook.

Cheers, Fritz

1st Dec 2011 16:44 UTCBart Cannon

Fritz,


"Mineral Guide to New England" would be easy to scan, and has historical value, but I am not sure of the copyright aspects on this matter.


From my knowledge of copyright law, this pamphlet is open for re-publication, and would be inexpenisve to re-produce.


I will await comments from the Mindat members with knowledge of copyright.


The date of publication is 1963.


If I re-published it, I would sell hard copies for $6.00. 42 pages which I would photocopy and saddle stitch with a card stock cover.


I'm still trying to make a living in the mineral, publishing and analysis biz.


In my will I will donate my stuff to MinDat or the Min Record. I fear I may live to 100 due to radon hormesis, so don't hold your breaths.


Bart

1st Dec 2011 18:33 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

A good reference to see whether something is under copyright in the US is here:


http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm


Still, even if it was theoretically under copyright, not-for-profit reprinting would be unlikely to get you into trouble.


Jolyon

5th Dec 2011 01:56 UTCAnonymous User

To Slim Pickens and the Mark 17,


You have taken it upon yourself to do most of the heavy lifting here and I thank you. Putting the Chomiak thesis online may, among other things, save me trips to Storrs.


Let us review what we already agree on:

1. We whole-heartedly agree that claims of gold veins anywhere else in Connecticut have not been credibly, established.

2. Placer gold is, indeed, another beast and therefore not part of this challenge.

3. We are interested in all things mining and minerals in Connecticut.

4. The Chomiak thesis online would give the public scientific information they have a right to see.

5. Kittens are cute.


That said; I hope there’s more to come from the thesis when it is put online. Table 20, BTW, is not an assay. It is a table in a paper that says it quotes something else that is also not an assay. Furthermore, Table 20 is not quantitative…omitted cations, especially iron, leads to the question, “ppm of what?”


The challenge is still on.


Charles Chapman


As Chairman Mao said, “In chaos, there is opportunity.”

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Mk17_bomb.jpg

5th Dec 2011 05:00 UTCStephan Segedy

Harold,


Reprints of this book, as well as the other Philip Morrill guides, are available for a nominal fee from barilbooks.com, whom I believe has the republishing rights. If I remember correctly, it is not as comprehensive as Morrill's state specific compendiums, covering a few select localities from each of the New England states in a more detailed fashion.


Also, be advised that the reprinted NH guide does not include the maps that are in the original edition.


Stephan

5th Dec 2011 11:21 UTCBart Cannon

Contrary to the general responses, I am enjoying the results of Chapman's challenge.


Though I don't fully understand his point or agree with his position, I am now more interested in the Great Hill than ever.


I have conducted ore mineralogy studies on many disseminated gold deposits. The Pinson in Nevada being one of the most frustrating.


It was a rare day in Ceasar's July that I ever found discreet gold in pyrite. That left us with the idea that the gold was occuring at the submicroscopic (SEM) level dissolved in arsenian pyrite.


I had good luck getting some free gold specimens from my post about the Homestake Mine.


Somebody send me some Cobalt, CT high grade ore samples. I will make polishd sections and send out some SEM images.


My stuff from 1963 is very lean.


My next project is the Comstock. I've been there and found no high grade. (1967) Send me a couple of those, too.


I was 16 and didn't know how to collect on a dump, but I should have loaded at least something of interest into my dad's Electra 225.


The trip was to photograph proto hippies at Haight - Asbury. Then I whined until my dad took us to the Comstock.


The Comstock started way before the mining laws of 1872, and it was far more of a mess than Deadwood.

5th Dec 2011 11:34 UTCBart Cannon

Forgot to mention that the grade at the Pinson hovered around 0.06 ounces per ton Au, and they made money for at least 12 years.

5th Dec 2011 14:05 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

"Table 20, BTW, is not an assay. It is a table in a paper that says it quotes something else that is also not an assay."


It is what it is, it's the best there is, there's no reason to doubt what it says. I'm just the messenger here, if it is unsatisfactory, then Tony Philpotts is still working at UConn, go talk to him. In the paper there are images of thin sections showing the gold. As I said early in this thread; you want an assay, go do it. However, keep in mind that collecting from state land is illegal without a permit.


BTW, I didnt say the Chomiak paper would be on-line. I cant do that, it is not mine. The GeoSurvey at the State DEEP may make it available as a pdf through a means yet to be determined (they are awfully short of time, money and staff).

5th Dec 2011 14:43 UTCJoseph Polityka Expert

Hi,


I find this discussion to be informative and entertaining. I'm not that bright but I have to assume, as someone who was born in a coal-mining area, that if there were "significant" gold deposits in Connecticut, the mining companies would have leveled the state.


Best,


Joe

5th Dec 2011 15:26 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

From what little I've heard through the grapevine and based on the geology, the horizon that the gold occurs in, though thin, could extend NNEward from Cobalt well into Massachusetts. Problem is that it is covered by glacial soils, is largely on private properties, and is thus difficult to access and assess. If it was documented in the 18th or 19th centuries, then I believe much more actual mining activity would have occurred, considering how much effort was spent on just a thin layer of nickel and cobalt at this site alone (and on rumors of gold elsewhere) in those days. I would not be surprised if speculators have done things behind the scenes, but who knows how much real mining could take place in today's heavily developed and environmentally/bureaucratically restrictive situation.

5th Dec 2011 16:19 UTCWilliam C. van Laer Expert

I would like to add here that any assays or ore evaluations on this deposit are contigent upon sampling; the assays on "high-grade" samples will certainly be predjudiced, so those registering values of 6 ounces per ton do not reflect the actual amount of rock required to recover say, a vein of ore an inch or even a foot wide...Sampling techniques can effect results in such a way as to render them innaccurate.....I have worked for many companies that were searching for gold, and by entering such predjudices in the process would render all my work worthless, even though I have been asked by bosses to recover high grade!


I have also been to the Connecticut cobalt locality; given what I have seen, the deposit couldn't yield a large amount of ore.


Chris

5th Dec 2011 16:27 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Table 20 of Chomiak's thesis does show much less gold in the in-situ vein than in the loose, "discovery" boulder. But the sampling she did was extremely limited, assessing the gold production potential was not her goal.

7th Dec 2011 01:49 UTCAnonymous User

With apologies to Patti Page; “Is that all there is?” One table, in one unpublished thesis; “Is that all there is?” Where are the follow-ups, the additional assays, rebuttals, clarifications; “Is that all there is?”


Maybe the goal of Table 20 was not to assess the gold production potential of Winthrop’s lode, but it does not seem that the authors minded being credited with finding 6 oz gold. The NYT article, The Hartford Current article, and dozens of rehashes in lesser rags, have never been explained, retracted, or clarified.


In Table 20, the BS samples (Boulder Samples) are well correlated to one another as are the VIS samples (Vein In Situ). There is no correlation (r = -0.012) between BS and VIS, i.e., there is nothing in Table 20 to suggest that BS and VIS are from the same population. The BS samples, like alluvial gold, are not in situ; they could have come from anywhere.


In the VIS samples, the Au has dropped from 6 oz ore to less than eight dwt. Bismuth dives by a factor of 28 (31.5 ppm vs. 905 ppm). Barium jumps around 2000% from BS to VIS. While these elements and proportions thereof are perfectly possible in an ore, the same result might be obtained by mixing Coney Island beach sand with filings from a 17th century Magyar earring.


Hopefully, not being that familiar with Mindat, there will be a table attached showing the analysis data set and a correlation matrix. The data set is from an OCR of Table 20 as provided by Moritz. I corrected the OCR errors, typos, and mistakes using my own judgment.


Perhaps this whole thing will be settled when I go to Storrs. I sincerely hope to be made a fool by what I find. Maybe the full text, along with the thin (polished?) sections, will accomplish this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BjhJLhSbYg&feature=related



Charles Chapman

7th Dec 2011 03:31 UTCMickey Marks

07554020016018085614020.jpg
Here is a copy of page 1 of Morrill's "Mineral Guide to New England". At the bottom of the page, it shows "© 1963 by Philip Morrill". How long does a copyright last?

7th Dec 2011 19:46 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

In this case it would depend if the copyright was renewed. If it was not renewed it would be in public domain. If it was renewed, it would go public domain in 2058.


http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm

8th Dec 2011 03:23 UTCBart Cannon

I will send a free copy of page 37 of Morill's book which has the map and description of Cobalt, CT to anyone who sends me a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope.


I think it constitutes free loss leader advertising for the heirs of Philip Morrill should they wish to re-publish..


I still want a piece of sulfide, antimonide, arsenide "high grade" from the district, and I will buy it.


Bart Cannon

1041 NE 100th Street

Seattle, WA 98125

2nd Aug 2021 03:11 UTCMartin Adamo

It has been a long time since these posts, but I just visited the area for the second time (once many years ago). A real lot of history to these Cobalt mines. We had some incredible flooding recently so I figured it would be a good time to check it out. I have some rock samples I can take pictures of for review (to learn more about them).

8th Dec 2011 17:52 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"Gold means significant gold." (from an old posting in this thread)


Can you define "significant" in a scientific way? Thanks.

8th Dec 2011 20:45 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert

Hi Bart:

FYI, the book is available for $6.95 at http://barilbooks.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=books&cart_id=9137904.20291

Fritz

9th Dec 2011 18:37 UTCAnonymous User

Uwe,


Vielen Dank für Ihre Frage. Ich weiß nicht, die offizielle Zahl für eine Anomalie in Bezug auf Gold. Allerdings, ist in diesem Fall, bin ich der Chef und hier ist mein Denken. Wenn die Fülle von Gold in der Erdkruste liegt zwischen 1 ppb und 4 ppb, so liegt die Mittelwert könnten rund 2,75 ppb und die Standardabweichung etwa 1,5 ppb werden. Angesichts dieser, ein anomolis Werte würde, würde bei etwa drei Mal starten die Standardabweichung, könnte man verwenden 5 ppb. Noranda ist, sind Erzvorkommen mehr als drei Milliarden Tonnen mit einem Mittelwert Gehalt von 0,029 oz / t oder 873,48 ppb. Lassen Sie uns sagen, 875 ppb. Ich erkläre: "Signifikante Gold" liegt zwischen 5 ppb und 875 ppb. Aber, ich bin der Richter in diesem Prozess, und die genaue Zahl ist meine Wahl.


Ich war in Wien im vergangenen Frühjahr. Es ist eine schöne, aber sehr teure Stadt.


Charles Chapman

14th Dec 2011 23:05 UTCAnonymous User

I quit. I have other fish to fry. If anybody can provide an assay that indicates that significant gold can be found in CT, please contact me through my regular email. topstone59@yahoo.com. I hope all of you have happy solstice celebrations.


Charles Chapman
 
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