Log InRegister
Quick Links : The Mindat ManualThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryMindat Newsletter [Free Download]
Home PageAbout MindatThe Mindat ManualHistory of MindatCopyright StatusWho We AreContact UsAdvertise on Mindat
Donate to MindatCorporate SponsorshipSponsor a PageSponsored PagesMindat AdvertisersAdvertise on Mindat
Learning CenterWhat is a mineral?The most common minerals on earthInformation for EducatorsMindat ArticlesThe ElementsThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryGeologic Time
Minerals by PropertiesMinerals by ChemistryAdvanced Locality SearchRandom MineralRandom LocalitySearch by minIDLocalities Near MeSearch ArticlesSearch GlossaryMore Search Options
Search For:
Mineral Name:
Locality Name:
Keyword(s):
 
The Mindat ManualAdd a New PhotoRate PhotosLocality Edit ReportCoordinate Completion ReportAdd Glossary Item
Mining CompaniesStatisticsUsersMineral MuseumsClubs & OrganizationsMineral Shows & EventsThe Mindat DirectoryDevice SettingsThe Mineral Quiz
Photo SearchPhoto GalleriesSearch by ColorNew Photos TodayNew Photos YesterdayMembers' Photo GalleriesPast Photo of the Day GalleryPhotography

LocalitiesKokcha Valley, Badakhshan, Afghanistan

16th Jun 2017 03:19 UTCIan Nicastro

I contributed to this article last year in G&G where we analyzed the blue tourmaline found in Koksha Valley via ICP-MS: https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/winter-2016-gemnews-blue-dravite-uvite-tourmaline-koksha-valley-afghanistan


-Would it be useful to add this as a reference for the Dravite from Koksha Valley?


-Would it be worth it on the Hazrat Saeed page to mention that the Dravite and Dravite-Uvite attributed to Koksha Valley are likely from Hazrat Saeed specifically, since multiple specimens attributed to Koksha Valley have turned up with both sapphire and blue dravite in the same mica matrix? And Hazrat Saeed appears to be the only Sapphire source in Koksha Valley.


-Only a totally different note... multiple sapphire crystals of specimen quality from Hazrat Saeed I have examined have a weakly radioactive mineral on/in them. Peter Slootweg and I hypothesized that it could be Zircon or a Microlite Group mineral. The mineral giving the radiation has a corroded looking shape and a grey color and is likely mistaken for books of mica at a quick glance. Not every sapphire has it, but quite a few do. This is the first time I have ever seen sapphire specimens with detectable radioactive inclusions. I haven't had a chance to have these analyzed.

16th Jun 2017 03:31 UTCAndrew Debnam ๐ŸŒŸ

Hello Ian, my two cents-yes to both

Andrew

16th Jun 2017 11:25 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

The more information the better.

16th Jun 2017 23:41 UTCRob Woodside ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

Oddly the marble from Sar-e-Sang is slightly hot with a couple of hundred counts per minute above background. It doesn't seem associated with any specific mineral.


The Dravite from the Kokcha Valley is yellow green and from a white schist occurrence https://www.mindat.org/loc-253959.html. There may be more than one such occurrence, but there were no blue dravites here.


I'll add this to Hazrat Saeed https://www.mindat.org/loc-255436.html Please check it.

17th Jun 2017 07:18 UTCIan Nicastro

Interesting to hear Rob, I've never been able to handle any large pieces of marble matrix from there.


Thanks for your help, and I agree with you that those are two distinctly different dravite sources.

17th Jun 2017 14:09 UTCAndrew Debnam ๐ŸŒŸ

Rob-Ian, do either of you have any details on pargasite found in Koksha ?

Thanks

Andrew

17th Jun 2017 16:19 UTCIan Nicastro

The min rec article on volume 45, may-june, 2014 has one paragraph on them. It mentions brownish crystals of them. I've not handled any from there personally.

17th Jun 2017 17:52 UTCRob Woodside ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

Although there might be more than one locality for Pargasite. The three habits so far are assigned to the Sar-e-Sang River occurrence. https://www.mindat.org/loc-252613.html


This piece has the Sar-e-Sang River assemblage. https://www.mindat.org/photo-598289.html Click for other views


This piece is darker and thinner https://www.mindat.org/photo-329797.html


This looks like a pseudo after the last habit https://www.mindat.org/photo-566823.html

17th Jun 2017 18:08 UTCAndrew Debnam ๐ŸŒŸ

Hi Rob, are the light green pargasite crystals in pinkish-violet calcite/marble from this area?


Andrew

17th Jun 2017 20:50 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"Only a totally different note... multiple sapphire crystals of specimen quality from Hazrat Saeed I have examined have a weakly radioactive mineral on/in them. Peter Slootweg and I hypothesized that it could be Zircon or a Microlite Group mineral. The mineral giving the radiation has a corroded looking shape and a grey color and is likely mistaken for books of mica at a quick glance. Not every sapphire has it, but quite a few do. This is the first time I have ever seen sapphire specimens with detectable radioactive inclusions. I haven't had a chance to have these analyzed."


Basaltic sapphires from Vietnam contain, among other minerals, pyrochlore and baddeleyite.

Corundums/rubies from both basalts and marble may contain zircons.

Van Long, P., Quang Vinh, H., Garnier, V., Giuliani, G., Ohnenstetter, D., Lhomme, T., Schwarz, D., Fallick, A.E., Dubessy, J. and Trong Trinh, P. (2004): Gem corundum deposits in Vietnam. Journal of Gemmology, 29, 129-142.

18th Jun 2017 01:18 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

06142240016019264444728.jpg
Just visual data but there are some differences between the mica of blue dravite and sapphire samples, both supposedly from Hazrat Saeed, that I tend to doubt they are from the same place. The mica accompanying blue dravite has a blue hue while that in the sapphire is more yellowish. In my blue dravite sample, that I received labeled just "Badakhshan", some mica areas are deep pink, a color never seen in sapphire mica matrix.

Also the response to UV is quite different. In Dravite samples the mica has a slighly yellowish fluorescence while that one with the sapphires is absolutely inert. And maybe the most significative difference: corundum from Hazrat Saeed is fluorescent in white o soft blue zones while that present in dravite samples is not.

I don't know if the photos have grasped the differences...

07191470017061844601444.jpg
Blue Dravite
06606440017061844576323.jpg
Sapphire

18th Jun 2017 17:08 UTCIan Nicastro

I've interestingly never come across baddeleyite on a corundum that gave me a radioactive signal. Pyrochlore is a great idea, I'll see if I can get this tested soon. I feel if it was zircon I'd get a uv response, but I don't.


I've actually come across large sapphires on both what I refer to as the 'greenish' mica matrix and the more 'brownish' mica matrix from Koksha Valley area. I've gotten detectable radiation signals from sapphires on both types of matrix 2-3x above baseline. I agree that the Dravite definitely does seem to occur only on the green/bluish mica matrix. I imagine there are probably multiple tunnels at Hazrat Saeed and so maybe the differences in what we are seeing might be attributed to variability in chemistry across the deposit.


I've never seen pink tinged mica from there until now, but I found another photo online besides your specimen. I also have to wonder if acid cleaning could be playing a role in things, as mica from local pegs where I live will often look green after acid cleaning, but brownish gold before. Although you mention the greenish/bluish mica on the Dravite matrix giving yellow fluorescence, I do not observe that with SW UV on my Dravite specimens green matrix. I do see fluorescence in the white areas of the sapphire just like you mentioned.


Until someone treks out to the remote sapphire area I doubt we will know what's actually going on.

18th Jun 2017 18:03 UTCRob Woodside ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

Hmmm.... I never had a dravite and no longer have a corundum from Kokcha Valley, so I'm really in the dark here. Josรฉ has pointed out some real differences in the micas. Maybe an EDS might shed some light on this? I remember the Fe staining on the mica with corundum and it might be as Ian says that the dravite mica might be less weathered. This is the real problem with these localities. Until some one with some geological training gets to them we will just be guessing. What to do?

18th Jun 2017 19:48 UTCPeter Slootweg ๐ŸŒŸ

09868280016019264449152.gif
I still feel that these specimens originate from te same locality or area. Maybe a different zone in the rock produces the green mica with the dravite. Jose mentioned a great difference in reaction under UV. I have several of these specimens from both finds and under SWUV and LWUV these specimens give the same reaction under my lights. Secondly most of the green mica specimens with dravite show parts with brown mica of he same color and hue as the specimens with the big sapphires (photo). Also the presence of tiny yellow grains with slight radioactivity in both paragenesis pull these specimens together in my opinion.


Jose is right that the sapphires in the green mica do not show any fluorescence and the big sapphires show a bright orange fluorescence at the white tips of the crystals. Many of these specimens have been oiled that may alter their reaction under UV. The only thing that bothers me, is that I have never seen the two types offered for sale at once, as from the same locality. Even in big lots of the big sapphire in brown mica material I have never encountered a green dravite bearing specimen and vice versa. Also the pink mica is something I have never seen myself. my initial thought it was staining from the pink toiletpaper these specimens are often wrapped in.


Like Rob says, until somebody goes up there and collects the facts it's one big educated guess.

19th Jun 2017 21:59 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

01093280016019264459265.jpg
I'm completely clueless after seeing Peter's last photo with greenish and brownish mica together!

To add more complexity to this matter, let me show the backside and a lateral view of my dravite sample.


Some zones of the mica have deep pink color:



Lateral view:
09705690015653267108757.jpg



Under a 365nm LED
05859120015653267114452.jpg

20th Jun 2017 05:20 UTCIan Nicastro

Weird. I wish we could get a Raman spec on the pink stuff. This is such a strange deposit.


I assume that's a mineral and it's not a dye... i.e. if you put that in water, the pink doesn't leach out. I only ask because I have received Hackmanite crystals that were dyed before from the region. Fractured translucent crystals had dye placed in the fracture and then were glued back together.

20th Jun 2017 09:52 UTCJoel Dyer

I think Ian has a point here. The pink colour is so strong and the other mica in the sample is pale greenish that it seems to be too good to be true? And the strong red-purplish fluorescence of the pink mica makes one wonder....


Raman - if you hit the right spots - should possibly bring up organic dye compound peaks as well...or else sensible spectra related to natural pink mica...


Cheers,


Joel

20th Jun 2017 19:45 UTCRob Woodside ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

There is a pink Phlogopite at Ladjuar Medan as well as pink sodalite. They are mm sized spots and are definately not from pink toilet paper wrapping that got wet.

21st Jun 2017 14:45 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

Today I sent the specimen to a friend who can do a LIBS of the different micas, will post the results when done.

21st Jun 2017 14:45 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

My fooly guess for the pink mica: muscovite with manganese.

28th Jun 2017 23:50 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

06581970017062588961732.jpg
Here they are the LIBS spectra made by Adolf Cortel. There is a similar metals content in mica from dravite specimen and mica from corundum specimen, which seems to be an argument in favor to think they are from the same locality or at least from localities not far one from another.


The high Mg content do not fit with muscovite. Maybe phlogopite?


Pink mica in my dravite specimen gives also a similar spectra. After checking metals content without find significative differences between clear and fuchsia micas, it was found that fuchsia color is soluble in alcohol, which indicates a probable artificial dyed. What a bad surprise!


Comments will be welcome. Thank you.



00454790017062588987464.jpg
Above, in black, LIBS spectra of corundum mica matrix.

Below, some mica species as reference.


01883580017062588999048.jpg
LIBS comparative of clear and fuchsia mica.

Metals content is very similar which seems to indicate that fuchsia color do not comes from a metal.

After this comprobation the analist checked fuchsia color solubility in alcohol with positive result, which means that fuchsia color is an artificial dyed.

29th Jun 2017 17:57 UTCJosé Zendrera ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

00226420016019264461350.jpg
Here comes the fluorescence spectra of the dye, maybe somebody can identify it.

1st Jul 2017 06:53 UTCIan Nicastro

Wow thank you for having all of that interesting analysis done! Sorry about the dye... My theory is that dealers were trying to dye the mica to make it look like lepidolite. At least it looks like it will come off easily. That's interesting the mica is not muscovite.

27th Mar 2020 03:06 UTCFrank K. Mazdab ๐ŸŒŸ Manager

I ran across this thread as a "similar discussion". For those still interested, I've now microprobed a specimen of the blue "fluor-dravite", along with the corundum and mica (and other minor phases). I posted the results at the following thread (not far from the end: 21 March 2020 08:13 UTC), where it had also been discussed:

 
Mineral and/or Locality  
Mindat Discussions Facebook Logo Instagram Logo Discord Logo
Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are ยฉ OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 25, 2024 20:16:48
Go to top of page