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PhotosPezzottaite - Dara-i-Pech pegmatite field, Chapa Dara District, Konar Province, Afghanistan

19th Aug 2014 12:15 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Pezzottaite

Parun pegmatite field, Nuristan, Afghanistan

This specimen is the only pezzottaite from Afghanistan in Mindat gallery and slighly different colored when compared to whole pezzottaite gallery: http://www.mindat.org/photoscroll.php?frm_id=pscroll&cform_is_valid=1&searchbox=Pezzottaite

To me, it looks like typical Afghan morganite with nice color.

There is not complementary info about this specie entry in his locality page. I imagine the author had analized this sample before to affirm its identity, would be very helpfull confirm this and to add this information to the mineral specie entry in his locality page to strengthen reliability of this data.

19th Aug 2014 13:18 UTCFerdinando Giovine

also for me it is morganite but inpossible to tell without analysis

19th Aug 2014 17:05 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Message sent.

19th Aug 2014 21:04 UTCJim Houran

Hi All,

I own this specimen, so I can get it analyzed to verify the species. However, the species is known (though rarely) from Afghanistan and Burma -- in both cases and to my knowledge the habit is not exactly like that found in Madagascar.

Cheers,

Jim

19th Aug 2014 21:08 UTCJim Houran

One more thing.... the locality is incorrect. The specimen is from Paroon, Kunar Valley, Afghanistan.

Thanks,

Jim

19th Aug 2014 21:55 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Jim, then we wait for the analysis result of this piece, thanks for your collaboration.

Concerning locality, Paroon is not in the Kunar Valley but in the Paroon Valley in Nuristan Province:

http://www.mindat.org/loc-9019.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parun

19th Aug 2014 22:03 UTCJim Houran

Josele, thanks for the correction... yes, this is supposedly the correct locality for pezzottaite: http://www.mindat.org/loc-68101.html

Cheers,

Jim

19th Aug 2014 22:05 UTCSalvatore Natalizia

With IR is easy distinguish beryl-pezzottaite

20th Aug 2014 06:25 UTCHarald Schillhammer Expert

Jim Houran Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> However, the species is known

> (though rarely) from Afghanistan and Burma

To my knowledge, most Burmese specimens also have not been analysed. Those (from Momeik Township) with a similar (pinkish) color as yours from Afghanistan have proven to be just Cs-rich Beryl, but I have seen photos of a very few specimens with a deep almost orange color, but also those have not been analysed. Would be nice, though, to have Pezzottaite from Burma confirmed.

Cheers

Harry

20th Aug 2014 07:50 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

According to the uploader, the specimen was "verified by the GIA".

Info added to photo caption.

20th Aug 2014 07:52 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"One more thing.... the locality is incorrect. The specimen is from Paroon, Kunar Valley, Afghanistan."

Jim: Does it say so on the label?

20th Aug 2014 11:24 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Jim Houran Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Josele, thanks for the correction... yes, this is supposedly the correct locality for pezzottaite: http://www.mindat.org/loc-68101.html

> Cheers,

> Jim

In Dewa Mine locality page, pezzottaite entry has a reference: "Lapis Extra (English) No. 7 (2005) p12"

In page 12 of mentioned Extra Lapis can read: "... A second location in the Dewa mine, Paroon Valley, Kunar, Nuristan, Afghanistan has now been confirmed (Laurs et al. 2003)"

(as said, Paroon Valley is not in Kunar)

Can someone amplify this information?

Which paper of Laurs et al. confirms pezzottaite in Dewa Mine?

20th Aug 2014 11:50 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

I found it!

In a GIA paper http://www.gia.edu/Winter-2003-A2-Pezzottaite-Madagascar-Laurs (pag. 284) can read:

"... In addition to material from this locality, a sample of Cs-rich “morganite” from Afghanistan described by Hänni and Krzemnicki (2003) has now been recognized as pezzottaite (H. Hänni, pers. comm., 2003). ..."

As Hänni reference is a personal comunication, there is no way to track it...

20th Aug 2014 11:52 UTCOlav Revheim Manager

Josele:

H. A. Hänni and M. S. Krzemnicki, “Caesium-rich morganite from Afghanistan and Madagascar,” Journal of Gemmology, Vol.28, No. 7, 2003, pp. 417–429) can be downloaded as a pdf from here:
link

This paper also includes microprobe data.

Olav

20th Aug 2014 11:55 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Thank you Olav, we wrote at the same time...

20th Aug 2014 12:05 UTCOlav Revheim Manager

Josele,

I have linked to a different paper than you have. The Hänni and Krzemnicki paper contains a full description of an Afghani sample, including a microprobe analysis, so it contains more than anecdotal evidence.

Olav

20th Aug 2014 12:17 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Added.

20th Aug 2014 12:49 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Then finally yes there is a written reference for "Caesium-rich morganite from Afghanistan". But the Afghan sample which was studied in GIA document referred by Olav was obtained from Haleem Khan, of Hindukush Mala Gems & Minerals, Pakistan, and is not the same specimen we are talking about in this thread. Even accepting that Afghan sample in GIA document is real pezzottaite, this does not prove that sample discussed here is pezzottaite too, especially considering that the origin is different (One from Dara-i-Pech other from Dewa Mine).

I think only an analisys will clarify this matter definitely...

20th Aug 2014 13:47 UTCJim Houran

Hi Josele,

Just to clarify, the locality of the Obodda specimen we are talking about here is not correctly listed. It is from Paroon, not Darra-i-Pech, as reported to me by Obodda himself.

Good news... arrangements for an analysis are underway. The plot thickens!

Thanks,

Jim

20th Aug 2014 14:09 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Jim, excuse my curiosity but how do you know that your specimen is from Dewa if your dealer said it is from Dara-i-Pech?

Maybe I'm asking too many questions... If yes, forget it.

20th Aug 2014 14:47 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

"It is from Paroon, not Darra-i-Pech, as reported to me by Obodda himself."

Changed.

20th Aug 2014 14:54 UTCJim Houran

I don't mind questions!

The dealer did not say it was from Dara-i-Pech. The dealer was Herb Obodda, who originally obtained the piece on a trip to Afghanistan. I asked him a long time ago about the locality, and he said he had no idea how the locality listed here ended up as it did. He then told me the correct locality (Paroon), which matches what we know about legitimate pezzottaite from Afghanistan. Obviously, the locality for this specimen (whatever it may turn out to be) needs to be changed to Paroon.

I obtained the specimen a couple years ago when Rob Lavinsky released the Obodda collection. The crystal will be analyzed soon at the U of A.

Hope this clarifies a bit.

Cheers,

Jim

20th Aug 2014 15:04 UTCJosé Zendrera 🌟 Manager

Thank you for your patience Jim, my appologies for not having understood before.

I'll be preparing my new excuse for when analysis confirms that it is indeed Pezzottaite...

20th Aug 2014 16:26 UTCJim Houran

José Zendrera Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you for your patience Jim, my appologies for

> not having understood before.

>

> I'll be preparing my new excuse for when analysis

> confirms that it is indeed Pezzottaite...

Josele,

This is one of the most fun aspects of the hobby, isn't it?.... solving mineralogical mysteries. While I hope analysis confirms the assumed pezzottaite identification, I'll be the first one to say, "Oops...the ID was wrong."

This will be a very educational exercise!

Cheers,

Jim

20th Aug 2014 17:42 UTCMatteo Chinellato Expert

why not ask to F.Pezzotta?

23rd Aug 2014 10:05 UTCMatteo Chinellato Expert

I have ask, the specimen is not confirm

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