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Identity HelpWulfenite Locality

27th Aug 2008 02:16 UTCLinda Smith

I bought an old collection, wrapped in newspapers from 1980. One of the specimens is a wulfenite that is 6cm by 9cm with adamantine, cm or smaller, transculent brown crytals. The locality is not identified Might someone be able to tell from a photo where it is from?

Thank you,

27th Aug 2008 02:31 UTCLinda Smith

Here is a photo. Well I tried to send a photo after resizing so I have to figure out what to do next.

27th Aug 2008 03:20 UTCLinda Smith

A third attempt to attach a photo.

27th Aug 2008 03:44 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

Hi Linda

I have seen very similar from Tsumeb. Is there any matrix ? Can we have a picture of the base as well ?

Debbie

27th Aug 2008 03:53 UTCLinda Smith

Debbie, there is no matrix, the bottom looks very similar to the top only the crystals have been broken and are also much smaller. Another small specimen was also in this collection and is from Los Lamentos, Mexico. Most of the collection is identified and from the southwest. There are quite a few specimens from Arizona and "old" Mexico. It sat for almost 30 years in an antique shop owner's garage and she decided to sell it. Thanks for your response.

Linda

27th Aug 2008 03:55 UTCDarren Court

Looks a bit like some of the Glove Mine, AZ pieces I have seen.

27th Aug 2008 03:57 UTCJohn Sobolewski Expert

It looks like typical Wulfenite from the Defiance Mine, Cochise County, Arizona. See mindat photos 43291 and 42916. John S.

27th Aug 2008 04:02 UTCLinda Smith

Hi John,

I just left that site. I agree that it looks like those specimens. I am wondering if it is is appropriate to identify this specimen as being from there as it does not lool like any of the 1400+ photos of wulfenite on mindat? By the way, we are getting ready for our China Spree trip and appreciate the info you gave us at the Seattle Mineral Mart.

Linda

27th Aug 2008 04:32 UTCMark Heintzelman 🌟 Expert

I will second John's suggestion for a Defiance Mine piece, there were a lot of nice plates of size with these characteristics, which were collected and disseminated from that locale (however, I would not utterly discount the possibility of it originating from the Glove mine either, habits there were wildly variable and I have seen pieces, somewhat similar to yours, from that locale). As for labeling, of course there is no easy, sometimes no possible way to determine a PROOF POSITIVE ascription for an unlabeled specimen, so be honest and list the locale as "Unknown: likely Defiance Mine, Gleeson, Arizona" (or be inclusive, Defiance or Glove MIne, Arizona, USA).

I wouldn't personally have a problem with doing this. If the next person to own the piece is dishonest, and decides to dump the "unknown" from your labeling, they could also just as easily determine a likely locale for it themselves, so it's not like your really helping perpetuate their dishonesty by having a suggested possible locale already noted on your label. Think of it as a starting point, you may someday come in contact with a locality collector who, specimen in hand, will be able to note the most minor of discrepancies between these locales, or possibly another, and give you an even more positive idea of the actual origin of the piece.

MRH

27th Aug 2008 04:49 UTCLinda Smith

Thank you Mark. I think I will label it as you suggest. When I purchased this collection, I did it solely to acquire a beautiful 22cm copper specimen from Ajo, AZ. The other 100+ specimens were a wonderful suprise. I can't imagine parting with any of the collection as there are specimens in it that are totally out of my reach if I were to pursue them. At the Tucson show I looked at many similar specimens for sale and alas on a teacher's salary could not afford but a few purchases. So my beautiful wulfenite will continue to be labeled location "unknown" but I will add the likely location.

Appreciate your wise advice. :)

Linda

27th Aug 2008 05:15 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

I personally do not believe there is any thing wrong with a "Loc. Unk." label. If the specimen deserves preservation then preserve it. Provenance would be nice but........

Don S.

27th Aug 2008 06:30 UTCRobert Meyer Manager

Linda,

It looks like Defiance or Glove to me as well, but it could be from elsewhere, even possibly Los Lamentos.

Bob

27th Aug 2008 08:58 UTCRock Currier Expert

Definitely a specimen from the Defiance Mine.

27th Aug 2008 16:37 UTCLinda Smith

Thank you all for your help.

Robert I have a small specimen from Los Lamentos and the crystals on it are thicker and larger. Look forward to getting together.

Linda

27th Aug 2008 23:37 UTCBruce J. Murphy Expert

I agree w/ Rock. Defiance Mine especially if some calcite is present on the matrix. Wafer thin crystals like that were typical.

28th Aug 2008 01:48 UTCRobert Meyer Manager

Linda,

Los Lamentos did actually produce wulfenite in a variety of habits, some, with thinner crystals. When you come over I will show you some.

Bob

28th Aug 2008 02:27 UTCDana Slaughter 🌟 Expert

99% sure that it is from the Defiance.

Dana

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