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Identity HelpGold

9th Jul 2018 13:00 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Got this gold specimen recently. The picture shows a rich part of this specimen. The label mentions just "Salzburg" and old (means prae 1900 in this case). The paragenesis includes needle quartz and tiny pyrite cubes.

I`m not completely convinced with "Salzburg". Radhausberg could be ...

But quite more logic would be a locality from our former k.u.k. monarchy. Slovakia? Romania?

Any opinion of experts highly appreciated!

9th Jul 2018 13:43 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

-- moved topic --

10th Jul 2018 17:59 UTCBrent Thorne Expert

Leaf gold on quartz was found at Rosia Montana, Romania. Compare with https://www.mindat.org/photo-558800.html The matrix is a quartz, dacite.

11th Jul 2018 07:53 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Another vote for Rosia Montana.

11th Jul 2018 10:15 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

A third vote for Rosia Montana!

Is there a connection between gold in leaf form and volcanic origin?

12th Jul 2018 10:05 UTCUwe Ludwig

There is a gold location in the Austrian Bundesland Salzburg. That is Rauris. Here at the Sonnenblick-mountain were historical gold mines. May be that they found gold in the 1900.

Rgds.

Uwe Ludwig

13th Jul 2018 13:59 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

No Uwe, I know the gold mines from Rauris very well, visited them several times around 1990 and made some SEM-ID`s just recently. They produced silver rich gold and this is pure gold.

I also haven`t heard from leaf gold from the Rauris mines.

13th Jul 2018 15:37 UTCLukáš Křesina

Some more informations can help.

What is the size of the specimen? And FOV of the photo? What is matrix of specimen - only quartz or some rock too? If some rock, then which - altered andezite or dacite, granite, gneiss? A small piece of rock in quartz says very much. Photo of the whole specimen is also important.

Lukáš Křesina

15th Jul 2018 14:32 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Thats true Lukáš , FOV of the picture is 8 mm, specimen size is 6x4x3 cm and here are some quick shots of the specimen:

15th Jul 2018 14:33 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

15th Jul 2018 21:35 UTCFrancis X Dzubeck

Christian

This type of gold classically called "Ribbon Gold" not "Leaf Gold". As to location in Europe, it is (based upon the matrix" from ) Daniel Level, Băiţa (Boica; Boicza), Băiţa, Băiţa (Boica; Boicza), Deva, Hunedoara County, Romania. I have a similar specimen in my collection. Ribbon Gold does occur at the Cârnic (Kirnik) Open Pit in Roşia Montanã in Alba County, Romania but not with that type of matrix. It also occurs at Mustari (Muszàri) Mine, Josephi vein, Musariu Vechi Area, Hunedoara County, Romania.but again not with this type of matrix. Finally, This type of Gold did occur in the old worlings (Wincesslai vein) of the Cavnic (Kapnikbánya) Mine, Maramureș County, Romania but with a wierd association of Orpiment.

Yours is an excellentand rich specimen from the Băiţa locality. As you know, the matrix is the key to any identification especially for Romanian Gold since all of the older specimens may be suspect due to an incorrect assumtion in the late 1800's and early 1900's that all Gold from Romainia came from Roşia Montanã.

Cheers.

Frank

16th Jul 2018 06:27 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Wow, I`m quite impressed by your knowledge Francis!

I have been many times in Romania but never in Băiţa which I know better under the old name Rézbánya.

Thank you very much.

So I will update the info and put the pictures under Băiţa.

16th Jul 2018 09:02 UTCLukáš Křesina

Christian, important note. There are two deposits with the name Băiţa in Romania.

1. Băiţa Bihor (or Bihorului) = Rézbánya in Bihor Co.

2. Băiţa (near the town Deva) in Hunedoara Co. As Francis X. Dzubeck writes, your sample is from this Băiţa, not from Rézbánya.

Lukáš Křesina

16th Jul 2018 10:03 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Can you give me the link of the mine please?

Here is the list of all localities from Hunedoara county:

https://www.mindat.org/lsearch.php?from=nsearch&loc=Hunedoara

16th Jul 2018 14:47 UTCLukáš Křesina

Only 2 gold mines near Băiţa are listed on Mindat.

Fizes https://www.mindat.org/loc-248960.html

Trestia https://www.mindat.org/loc-11945.html

But it is very probable that there are more old gold mines at this area. Sorry, I do not know exactly, where is Daniel level in Băiţa.

In the collection of Vysočina Museum Třebíč we have a sample of gold from Băiţa and some two years ago it was rather difficult for me to find the right deposit Băiţa. And so I know it. But I cannot tell you more.

Lukáš Křesina

16th Jul 2018 21:03 UTCFrancis X Dzubeck

Christian

For you information there was only one Mine in the Village of Băiţa (Boica; Boicza) and it had many levels that produced Gold and specimens. Ribbon Gold came from the Danial Level and octohedron crystal Gold came from the Crăciuneşti Level. If yo do your research in Goole Books and more recent Romanian University published papers you will find this data. Even this source of information can get confusing based upon the age ofthe document. As an example, in later literature the mines in this area are refered to as the

Băița-Crăciunești Mines with Crăciunești (Krecsunesd) being the nearby village to Băița. In these descriptions they reference the Danial Mine and the Crăciunești Mine. but earlier literature identifies them as Levels of the Băiţa Mine. I have chosen to take the earlier description for my database. It is my suspicion that the Gold veins are the same for both "mines" and that Adit access atarted at Băiţa and then occurred at Crăciunești. My research indicates that thre major Gold veins existed - Ghergherleu, Ladislau and Suhaida. The Danial level wortked Ghergherleu and Ladislau and the Crăciunești level worked Suhaida.

Please remember that Mindat is a Wiki-site that requires information contributions to create their database. These contributions may be inacurate or lacking complete information. Do your own research and only rely on Mindat as a guide for locality information. With respect to the Băița Commune, there exit numerous mines that are not shown in Mindat:

Băița (Boica) [Commune]

Barbura (Bárbura) [Village]

Barbura (Bárbura) Mine

Bolcana Cu-Au-Mo Open Pit

Draica Mine

Hulpus Mine

Măgura Mine

Stogul (Stogu) Mine

Stogul West Mine

Teascu Mine

Troita (Troicza) Mines

Anton Mine

Creanga Mine

Pitigus Mine

Troitia Mine

Valea-Geamana Mine

Băița (Boica) [Village]

Băița (Boica) Mine

Căinelu de Sus (Căinel de sus; Ciinel; Felsö-Kajanel; Kajanel; Felsőkajanel) [Village]

Căinelu de Sus (Căinel de sus; Ciinel; Felsö-Kajanel; Kajanel; Felsőkajanel) Mine

Crăciunești (Krecsunesd) [Village]

Băița-Crăciunești Mines

Crăciunești Mine

Daniel Mine

Ghergherleu vein

Ladislau vein

Suhaida vein

Fizeș (Fuzes; Füzesd) [Village]

Fizeș (Fuzes; Füzesd) Mine

Hărțăgani (Hercegány) [Village]

Hărțăgani (Hercegány) Mine

Sălişte (Szelistye; Grossdorf) [Village]

Sălişte (Szelistye; Grossdorf) Mine

Trestia (Trestya, Trestja, Tresztia, Treszya) [Village]

Trestia (Trestya, Trestja, Tresztia, Treszya) Mine

This is not a complete list but I have not had the time to do further research. If you go to the Vienna Museum you will see on display Gold samples from some of these mine. The matracies and Gold forms are different and can be used to identify locality. Some are not Gold mines like Bolcana (Copper) and Sălişte (Silver). This area in the 19th century statistically at times produced more Gold than the Roşia Montanã area. Labeled Gold specimens are few and far between as most seem to have been labeled as Roşia Montanã or just Siebenbürgen.

Frank

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