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Techniques for CollectorsIron Out Chemistry and Performance
24th Apr 2016 05:24 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert
The second hardware store had the spray bottles, but those are labeled “Super Iron Out.” The Super Iron out also reports: “Contains Fluorosilicic Acid and Oxalic Acid,” without any strength information, but it is apparently the same thing as plain “Iron Out” from the previous store. REMEMBER, HOWEVER, THAT THE POWDERED IRON OUT IS SOMETHING ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT THAN LIQUID IRON OUT!
I tried the powdered Iron Out on a specimen of quartz grading to smoky quartz with elbaite crystals. The powder is mixed with water, and effervesces strongly for abut a minute when powder is added to water. I brushed it on, and thought I could see some effect, but it wasn’t great. Then I immersed the specimen in a bucket filled with a solution of the powder in water. After several minutes I saw more, but slight, improvement. Then I made another batch of the solution in the bucket and submerged the specimen for over night. The next morning I found it to be almost iron-free! Most remaining iron stains were in cracks in the quartz, which I concluded were too tight for the solution to penetrate, and I was satisfied with the result. Then I soaked the amethyst specimen mentioned before in a new mixture of powder and water for a nearly a whole day, after which it showed considerable improvement. However, some annoying orange stain remained in a crackled zone below the crystal terminations (the latter were clean to begin with). I then applied the powder directly to the surface of still-stained portions of the mineral and sprinkled on a little water, thinking the activity that produces the effervescence when the powder is added to water might initially provide more strength to the process. I kept adding water sprinkles and brushing it, cleaning off the mixture and adding new material between treatments. Currently some orange still remains–all in the crackled zone, and I think it is also essentially out of reach of the solutions. I am fairly satisfied with the improvement already, but may try some long-term soaking to see what happens. The two photo pairs below are before-and-after photos of the two specimens. This is my experience so far with Iron Out.
24th Apr 2016 06:14 UTCRanger Dave
24th Apr 2016 06:17 UTCDoug Daniels
24th Apr 2016 10:19 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
http://www.summitbrands.com/Data/Accounts/Files/1/MSDSSuperIronOut.pdf
http://www.summitbrands.com/Data/Accounts/Files/1/IronOUT(liquid)-English-GHS-Rev3-16-15.pdf
24th Apr 2016 20:55 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert
25th Apr 2016 07:50 UTCHarjo Neutkens Manager
You won't like the smell, but the results are usually very good, it's easy to make and use and not very toxic, although you have to take care not to inhale the sodium dithionite dust for it can cause respiratory problems.
And, always wear proper gloves and safety glasses, even with stuff that might be just moderately hazardous
Make sure you soak the specimen in water before putting it in the solution long enough for all the cracks to fill with water, otherwise you'll be left with an ugly yellowish residue that will hardly be removable from tiny cracks.
Heating the solution (max. 60 degrees) will substantially speed up the cleaning process. But make sure you gradually and slowly heat up the specimen before putting it in a heated solution for some crystals might crack internally due to the thermal shock. Some quartzes for instance can already crack and even fall apart when you put them in the sun after getting them out of the cold wet pocket mud...
My experience is that the solution is good for about 12 hours, although some literature gives a shorter time.
It is very important to thoroughly rinse the specimen afterwards and let it soak in water for about the same time as it has been in the Waller solution and replace the water with clean water every now and then.
For 1 liter:
Sodium Citrate - 71 grams
Sodium Bicarbonate - 8.5 grams (baking soda)
Sodium Dithionite - 20 grams
25th Apr 2016 11:36 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
It doesn't like the -
If you copy the entire link and put it into the url window of your browser you can get there.
http://www.superironout.com/multi-surface-sprays.php
Info tab
For more product information, see our SDS
25th Apr 2016 13:07 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert
25th Apr 2016 20:25 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert
It seems that the pdf of the SDS can only be reached from the link to the product page. Is there a way to escape the - In the names to get to it directly?
According to the SDS it is quite different than the Iron Out solid! I should not have the same name! :-(
25th Apr 2016 21:25 UTCHarold Moritz 🌟 Expert
Yes, Norman, you have to soak the pieces for days typically to remove the stubborn iron hydroxides. A little spray and wipe aint gunna cut it. Sometimes you have to refresh the solution days into the soak. Then soak in water when done for days as well, changing out the rinse every so often. You wont get the stains outta deep cracks.
Works great on most primary silicates and oxides and fluorapatite, many primary sulfides. Seems fine for fluorite and calcite and other primary carbonates, but test first and monitor progress just in case. Test first on secondary minerals, I know it does bad things to secondary phosphates. Zeolites are another matter, check Rudy Tschernik's book "Zeolites of the World" for cleaning tips. If unsure, test on a sacrificial piece first.
26th Apr 2016 00:09 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
26th Apr 2016 11:07 UTCMichel Ambroise
Any one know if we can find this products in europe or France?
What' s the exact name to be used in english?
Thanks
26th Apr 2016 12:26 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager
26th Apr 2016 15:33 UTCThomas Lühr Expert
In Germany are two products (and variants of them) available, as a decolourant powder for clothes, based on sodium dithionite (Natriumdithionit). The product names are "HEITMANN POWER ENTFÄRBER INTENSIV" and "Dr. Beckmann Intensiv Entfärber". Also sold by amazon.de.
http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=entf%C3%A4rber
I've only tested both basic products, not the derivatives of them (for white / colored / hot / cold etc.). Both are working "out of the box" slightly, the "Beckmann" label a bit better than "Heitmann". The reason for the low activity is the lack of (enough) chelating agent - like sodium citrate in the "Waller solution".
Furthermore, both products have sodium carbonate as a component, what causes an high pH value and will attack some (secondary) minerals even more.
This both disadvantages can be eliminated by addition of a solution of citric acid. It will react with a part of the sodium carbonate to sodium citrate and carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide will instantly adsorbed by an other part of sodium carbonate, and will give sodium bicarbonate - and a lower pH value.
That may sound difficult, but actually it is really very easy to do:
For 1 liter water solve one table spoon of the powder. Then add slowly usual trade lemon juice (made from concentrate), while stirring the solution. If the solution effervesces strongly then stop the further addition (all sodium carbonate has been converted to sodium citrate and sodium bicarbonate).
If you are able to get citric acid powder, use better (cheaper) a solution of it instead of the lemon juice.
This solution (with the specimens in it, slowly heated till about 60°C) works very well against rust stainings and is also able to loosen up tenacious clay crusts (easy to remove in ultrasonic bath).
It is also good to prevent the yellow staining after soaking/ etching in muriatic acid. And i had even success with stopping the rotting process of pyrite, it even got back the original gloss and is stable since two years now.
Note: Be carefull with secondaty minerals. So it does not make harm to (glossy) mimetite and pyromorphite, but anglesite tarnishes black (sulphate will be reduced to sulphide ?). Cerussite remains white but loses the gloss.
Much success and happy cleaning
Thomas
26th May 2016 07:46 UTCJW Johnson
I tried the spray on Super Iron Out...wasn`t impressed, wasn`t too super in my book.
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: April 17, 2024 08:46:22