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Techniques for Collectorsrock splitters

24th Oct 2006 19:02 UTCPaul Hewitt

I am looking for a source to purchase a hydraulic rock splitter. All I can find online so far is mining equipment. I just want a small one to break rocks no larger than 18-24 inches. Does anyone know where I can buy one or am I going to have to have one made?

24th Oct 2006 19:25 UTCBarry Flannery Expert

Before you even start you will need a lot of cash. There are ridiculously expensive.

Barry

24th Oct 2006 19:59 UTCDavid Von Bargen Manager

Try doing a search for hydraulic rock trimmers. They do tend to be a bit on the pricey side, but they do have to be built pretty sturdily since they are under a great deal of stress (and you don't want to be around if they fail catastrophically). 18-24" rocks are pretty big to break.

24th Oct 2006 20:31 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

I tried a Chinese hydraulic trimmer several years ago and was not happy with it. The price was right as the dealer did not want to cart it home from the show.

The splitter could be screwed down against the piece prior to applying the hydraulic pressure. This was nice as it was faster than pumping it down. There was not enough spport to keep the extended screw / piston assembly rigid. The cutters would break off because of the lateral movement when pressure was applied. The cutters were also hardened completely instead of just the cutting edge. This made the portion retained in the piston assembly too brittle to take much lateral force.

I would not consider getting one of these again. There are a few dealers on the web that offer them.

When stationed in Hawaii, the club there built one using railroad track for the up rights and cross members. It had a 50 ton jack and a 1/2 " plate shield around it. It would handle rocks up to 15". You mihgt find somebody in your area that could fabricate one for you.

Doug

24th Oct 2006 20:45 UTCRay Hill Expert

If you have any welding shops nearby, consider visiting one and discussing a simple design with them. I have one at home that was made at such a shop and it involves a tempered bit coming off of a solid I-Beam and is sticking down from the top part of a large rectangle of I beams that are thoroughly welded together. The tube with set screws allows that tempered bit to be changed from a chisel shaped one to a pointed one, or a broader chisel shaped one. In this way you have the ability to focus pressure across different size areas of the surface, and in addition gives you the ability to remove it for re sharpening and/or retempering. A 2 ton jack was welded onto the base and has a steel platform that sits on top of it/ This platform has holes on either side through which pass two round steel bars that run from the top of the IBeam rectangle to the bottom, on each side, and they have heavy duty springs underneath,to keep platform from jamming as it is jacked upwards. The maker made a number of different height pieces of smaller i-beam steel that could be put on the platform to put pressure at specific points from beneath the specimen,if you want to exert it in a more concentrated fashion . I arranged a swap of services with the welder for his time and paid for all materials. He got quite excited about the project and being a craftsman, he made sure all welds and materials not only met, but exceeded specs. There are a lot of different splitters out there and it helps to discuss what are the pros and cons of different ones before venturing out to design and make one yourself. I tried to incorporate in mine , various ideas that avoided some of the problems I had heard about from other collectors. I love my heavy duty splitter, and it has its place for occasional large, and/or very hard matrix pieces, but I find that most of my trimming and splitting is still done by my much smaller unit.

25th Oct 2006 08:37 UTCChris Tucker Expert

Hi Paul,

Of all the trimmers that I have used, the Zuber MP5 is by far the best. They can be obtained from several dealers and directly from Zuber. Parts and accessories are readily available as well. I have used five different Zubers over the years and only ever "broke" one; it was in the shop for a few hours to get new seals and is now back in use. The one that I have here at the house is used/abused nearly everyday and it still works fine even though it is now ten years old.

Stay away from the Chinese junk (Wydar and the Zuber clone sold by well known dealer based in Colorado). They may be a bit cheaper but China is a long way to go for parts. I am not personally aware of anyone with a Chinese made trimmer that has not broken, leaked, bent, etc...

You can of course build a trimmer. If you want one that is the same size as a Zuber, expect to pay as much for the materials as the trimmer. As several of the other responders to your question noted, trimmers can be built using a bottle jack. Trimmers made with bottle jack will be significantly higher to account for the jack height.

Regards,

Chris

25th Oct 2006 22:18 UTCcraig pearson

ZUBER

Chris, would you have the contact information for the Zuber rock splitter. E-mail phone number address ect any and all dealers you know of...

Thanks, Craig

26th Oct 2006 06:38 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Paul...I bought a shop bearing press (with a 12 ton hydroulic jack) at a discount automotive shop tool supplier...had the business end of the press shaft drilled and chamfered to fit standard hammer-drill bits, and have been happily splitting large specimens for ~ 10 years....I even ground a file to a sharp edge to fit into the supplied working vise to provide a lower pin-point pressure source....works great and cost less than $100.00....TOTAL!!!.

26th Oct 2006 07:46 UTCChris Tucker Expert

Craig,

You can go directly to Zuber at zubermaschinenbau.de/index.html

David Shannon Minerals was the main dealer here in the US. Since Dave passed away I believe that the trimmers are handled by Michael. You can reach him through their site, shannonsminerals.com. Dave's wife, Colleen, was still running the business and she can probably help you with trimmers as well.

In Europe, Zubers are carried by Mikon.

Regards,

17th Jun 2007 20:17 UTCRock Currier Expert

Paul,

We have used commercial brick splitters to trim specimens in our business for years. I think the last one we bought was about ten years ago. They are used for commercially breaking bricks and concrete blocks. They come with little flat tables on both sides of the blades that you will need to remove. They cost three or four hundred dollars but we feel are well worth the price because they have a little cogged hand crank device that allows you to quickly adjust the cutting blades up and or down to quickly snug them against the rock in the position where you want to break it. Then it is usually just a few strokes of the hydraulic jack handle to finish the break. If you have a lot of specimens to trim, this feature is very important. Most of the trimming time on rock trimmers is moving the cutter up and down to get it snug against the specimen. If you really need to trim or break specimens that are 18 to 24 inches you are going to need a really large trimmer and you may wish to consider having one constructed that is powered up and down by an electrically driven hydraulic pump. Some rocks break easily, but others like the crossite that is the typical matrix of the benitoite and neptunite from San Benito Co. California can be so tough that even trying to break a 10 inch specimens strains my brick trimmer to the limit. In such cases I sometimes wrap a towel around the specimen before I really pile on the pressure. These specimens often just explode and can throw rocks across the room and bounce them off the wall. I would be afraid to be around a trimmer powerful enough to break a 20 inch piece of crossite when the rock broke. If the trimmer were massively built out of big I beams so there was not much give to the thing, these â€˜explosionsâ€™ could be reduced a lot I think.

Rock

21st Jun 2008 04:11 UTCGrace Lim

I have several manual rock trimmers and hydraulic trimmers original by Wydar. Contact me via email if interested.

email: gracelim@naturalwvs.com

Thanks!

Grace

23rd Dec 2015 00:15 UTCP. Bigos

I am looking into hydraulic specimen trimmers too. Anybody have any clue what the going price on a used Wydar trimer labelled US PATENT 5638805 all painted yellow with a "4x5" should be? Does anybody know much about the trimmer I have pictured here? Is this an old model? Was this made in USA? I keep hearing people saying Wydar was made in China. Anybody know what these went for 15-20 years ago? I'm assuming this may be when this was originally purchased.

23rd Dec 2015 00:24 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

The Wydar trimmer isn't very powerful. It's useful to crush an occasional crumb, but if you need to trim tough stuff and/or trim frequently -- both of which I do -- then invest in the Zuber recommended previously in this thread. I've had my original Zuber for 15 years now, and other than replacing the chisels once or twice, have never had an issue with it. And I am very hard on machinery (just ask my overworked car).

23rd Dec 2015 00:30 UTCP. Bigos

I see Shannon & Son's has Zuber MP5 for $665 brand new. Given that, any clue what an appropriate used value would be for the Wydar I pictured? A person I know is selling one like this with extra chisels that he never needed to change to.

23rd Dec 2015 02:17 UTCTom Mortimer Expert

I have owned and used a Wyder trimmer for over 10 years. I do not abuse it. The largest size I trim is small cabinet. I mostly use it for miniatures to micros. I have never had a problem with mine. The open "C" frame design is convenient to use.

Tom Mortimer

8th Sep 2017 20:50 UTCKen Moffett

Tom,

Our Geology mineral prep lab has a yellow, closed-frame, hydraulic trimmer that has a pump that looks like the one in the Wydar in the P.Bigos' post. Ours is not lowering the ram when we pump. I suspect that it's low on oil, but have no idea how to fill it. There are two setscrews on top that look like they might be where you put the oil or bleed the pump. Have you ever done that?

Ken

8th Sep 2017 21:06 UTCWayne Corwin

Ken

first ... Welcome to Mindat !

second, a photo would help, oe several.

third, are you closing the valve before pumping?

just a thought other than needing oil.

8th Sep 2017 22:07 UTCKen Moffett

Here are the pictures. The pump looks exactly like the Wydar.

So it's late Friday afternoon and Geology has gone. I tried on my own. If you lift the handle all the way up, the ram returns. Now it appears that if I do full rapid strokes (not quite all the way up) the ram advances. This may be a non-problem. I'll know more Monday.

Ken

8th Sep 2017 23:08 UTCTed Hadley

Swarf Systems has a whole line of different sizes of rock splitters.

www.SwarfSystems.com

9th Sep 2017 01:34 UTCJohn Oostenryk

That is one of John Attard's units or a knockoff~

I have not used one of these~ but old sales ad states- "One Touch" so ALL function is in handle.

Maybe as you say Full Up- is release?

I would suspect handle would close or release pressure valve. ((like screw in or out) as on rolling floor jack for vehicles)

It sure looks clean!

Unless you cleaned up heavy oily mess around unit- it is likely not low on fluid.

There is typically always some residue around hydraulic pressure pump- so you judge that~

SURELY- plenty of people here have used style prior~ and can direct!

That Said- Denver 2017 show is NOW- so response may be slow/delayed.

(OLD?) ad page https://attminerals.com/product/mineral-specimen-trimmer-large/

On his latest website home page- I do not see this listed anymore. If no reply here at MinDat~~

DO contact him.

https://attminerals.com/contact/

Best Regards!

~JohnO:)

12th Sep 2017 15:13 UTCKen Moffett

There are two set screws on the top. One was loose. I don't know their purpose, but I tightened the loose one and now it seems to work. Maybe a bleed or fill ports? ????

We also had a student twist the frame on the open-frame one we had prior to our current closed-frame one:

Ken

12th Sep 2017 22:01 UTCWayne Corwin

Ken

Why would you twist the frame?

The jaws are supposed to meet up,,, exactly!

18th Nov 2017 03:06 UTCDennis Beals

Wayne

The frame can be bent in two ways.

Not all the chisels were ground equally.

The biggest problem is when people try to break too hard a rock. If pushed too hard it can twist it out of alignment.

John Li designed the top pump to solve problems with the old design. Set screws did not hold the pump and people never tighten them. M8 allen head metric set screws bite down much better.

They are filled with oil by removing the Acme thread top screw, turning upside down and remove the screw on the bottom of the pump. Using a thin blade gently pry up the bottom plate. Make sure before you start that the pump is bottomed out. Fill to within 4 mm from the top with hydraulic jack oil. Gently work the pump to remove all air bubbles. Make sure the piston, when done, is close to bottomed out. A replacement o ring can be obtained at Ace Hardware or at a specialist shop. Don't do this on the kitchen table! When replacing the bottom plate place a rag over the bolt hole or oil will squirt out. Replace the bolt. Replace the Acme compression screw. The pump can be bled of air bubbles by removing the bottom chisel and raising the Acme thread compression screw as high as it will go. At the bottom of the chisel well is a set screw, loosen but don't remove. A small ball bearing is under it! Gently pump until only air comes out, this is a very small amount. Keep clean!

A clear piece of plastic with a hole the size of the bottom chisel shaft and the width of the bottom frame and draped over will keep the wiper seal clean.

Check all bolts on a regular. I cannot emphasize this enough.

All the old machines are gone.

The top screw designs are pumped by short strokes and released by lifting to the top of the stroke.

20th Nov 2017 20:59 UTCJohn Lawson

Hi,

Some thoughts on this topic,

We have an ‘old rock splitter’. It was made in the U.K. by a good friend of ours, who is an agricultural engineer.

Basically it has two hardened steel Jawa, which are held firmly in place by Allen keys.

The bottom jaw is completely moveable, and freely rises or falls, on two 1 inch steel rods.

The sample is broken, by putting a 5 ton hydraulic car jack, underneath the bottom jaw.

We have had this machine for nearly 30years.

Unfortunately the designer no longer makes them, since he was concerned with any potential litigation which might arise from pieces, being ejected from the breaking of the sample.

I would think that any competent, metal fitter could make one!

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