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Deutsches Mindat - ForumLaw on mineral search

15th Oct 2007 16:30 UTCLuca Baralis

Sorry, I can't speak german.

The Italian Parliament is going to discuss a bill to regulate the not-professional mineral search on the national territory. AMI (Associazione Micromineralogica Italiana) and other associations of minerals collectors is looking for documents, links, and advice about similar laws in other countries and particularly (not only however) in the rest of EU countries.

We will be gratefull to anyone theat can point us to pertinent on-line resources or send documentation.

Please contact: Luca Baralis at luca.bs@gmail.com

Thanks in advance,

Luca

11th Nov 2007 08:37 UTCjürgen lange/de

hallo luca, hallo all,

is this a bad joke?

europe has other problems than mineral collectors.

kind regards jürgen lange/de

11th Nov 2007 09:13 UTCMarco Barsanti Manager

Hi Jurgen, it is real. Just something else to work on for our useful politicians, avoiding to face the real problems

11th Nov 2007 13:40 UTCSimone Boscolo Expert

Sorry, I don't speak german but I'll try to write something about this law project.

We all know that Italy, Europe, has other important problems but although our politicians can be not the top in Europe (it's true!), politik has the responsability to make laws about all of the aspects of our public life and human public activities. We have laws for a great number of things, why not for minerals collectors? It is a small bill that it is not binding for other more important project for our Parliament...

Simone Boscolo

11th Nov 2007 13:59 UTCZbynek Burival Expert

Thats look just like attempt to kick "non-professionals" from business. I dont like these trends at all because they never produce anything good to most collectors. Just provides another reasons to prohibit collecting, charge fees etc. And also helps dealers to raise prices alot, because they always have enough money to avoid the law.

We have here in czech some attempts about this and producing geopark with no collecting at all its really very very stupid law! Im professional geologist but I must ask Ministry of environment if I could collect there... and chance is about 1 promile they would allow it. These laws did nothing about devastating localities, many dealers illegaly selling ppl etc. but made alot of trouble to many "non-professional" collectors. And what "professional" means? Member of club, employee of geological survey, emlployee of museum or what?

11th Nov 2007 14:26 UTCD. Schlaefli

They came first for the base-jumpers, And I didnâ€™t speak up because I wasnâ€™t a base-jumper;

And then they came for the kite-surfers, And I didnâ€™t speak up because I wasnâ€™t a kite-surfer;

And then they came for the pit bull owners, And I didnâ€™t speak up because I didn't own a pit bull;

And then . . . they came for the mineral collectors . . . And I couldn't believe it.

11th Nov 2007 22:08 UTCSimone Boscolo Expert

In Italy, in the last twenty years, a lot of localities were closed to mineral's collectors. Sometimes to create a geopark or mine museums, and sometimes for damages caused by mineral's collectors. The situation, nowaday is very sad. In this bill (I hope) we see the possibility to regulate the search of minerals in every locality of Italy for all.

15th Nov 2007 19:53 UTCjürgen lange/de

hallo folks, i see some pro and cons concerning a regulation.

hope, that theres will no dual right like in switzerland: persons living in the canton have to pay 100 %, persons in switzerland have to pay 150 %, persons from abroad 300 %.

it's good to prevent mass exploiting at one place. there is no need to collect everything from that place. in region sondrio/italy one can collect few samples and that is okay.

it is also good to exclude explosives and machines ...

at simone for: "We have laws for a great number of things, why not for minerals collectors? It is a small bill that it is not binding for other more important project for our Parliament..."

if it is a small bill, so why you need it. and do you really think, we need to regulate everything? do we need a law for breething out and another for breething in?

i am working on environmental law here in germany: i saw we transport garbage from house holds in italy now to germany to get the stuff burnt here. a lot of dumps are closed in your country due to failures in protecting the landscape... now we transport the stuff for thousands of kilometres.

here collectors get problems on digging in the ground where thunderstorm kyrill made deeper holes in the ground than the normal mineral digger does.

i started to enjoy natural sciences as a small boy by doing some chemistry on our balcony. i prepared substances as a young boy. later on i studied chemistry. if i would try to start the same "career" now, getting chemicals to do that would be out of range. getting these substances would be impossible now. due to legislations..

our living is too complex now. we need living on a easy level. we should enjoy our live.

let's have a good time jÃ¼rgen lange/de

21st Nov 2007 08:40 UTCLuca Baralis

Sorry, I've been busy for a while.

May be we don't need it, but nevertheless the italian parliament will discuss such a law. Not sure, however, that it will approve it, and, sure, the proposal needs important changes to meet both rockhounds, mineralgists and environmental requirements.

Seems that the most of european contries don't have specific bills on mineral searching/collection.

18th Jan 2008 15:35 UTCChris Mavris Manager

Hi juergen,

even if I'm italian I definitely agree with you about the matter that we need more important things than laws related to mineral collecting and permits.

The "muell" trouble (garbage, in english) in certain areas of Southern Italy should be one of the priorities.

However, as all problems, there are relative priorities and absolute ones.

The garbage problem is an absolute problem that no government could fix since the very last 30 years, I think. The point is that southern people (and not all of them, of course) now are more pissed than ever and the situation just got out of everyone's hand. Let's hope this gets fixed as soon as possible, these kind of news are really destroying the positive portrait of our country. I'd kick almost all politics that ruled Italy in the last decades for they incapability in managing this situation, but I can't. As Italian citizen I'm so pissed, I swear!!

Now, the fact that AMI is trying to point out is something that, compared to the previous topic, is almost irrelevant. But in our small groups (I'm talking about collectors) it has its crucial importance. What shall we do if almost all Italian locs are closed due to the foundation of a national reserve?Will be collecting possible for some people with permits?And which ones are the ones who will get them?And under which circumstances?

I suggest to get back to the topic...but Juergen, you are absolutely right about the priorities' matter.

Chris

18th Jan 2008 16:20 UTCPaul De Bondt Manager

Hi All,

Yeah, your right Jurgen, soon we neet a permit to fart, or they will put a counter up our ... so they can count how many time we farted and tax us on that.

Politicians are pathetic and they need to bother everyone to make their little

'' portefeuille '' credible. And they need the money. Taxing the labor is at the maximum in Belgium, so, they have no other way to get the money out of our pockets.

Greetings from Mechelen

Paul

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