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Posted by Kristi Hugs
Kristi Hugs November 18, 2009 06:43PMI found a dealer on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260508247278 selling "Smelt Quartz". This looks like another lovely item (enter sarcastic look here) from China.
Can anyone tell me about this?
Jan Styer-Gold November 18, 2009 07:55PMHi Kristi,
This material (colored glass) has been around for a few years. It is most commonly advertised as "Cherry Quartz." Occasionally it's called "Strawberry Quartz." It may be seen as beads, spheres, cabochons, and cut into shapes resembling quartz crystals, like the one you have listed above. The source is usually China. Need I say more? ;)
Allen Steinburg November 18, 2009 08:29PMI think thre are two clues other thatn they are from China that should tell you to stear away from this. 1-the colour, 2- they are too perfect in the terminations and clossyness. Also I suppose is a third one and that is, they are all identical. I have seen many like this on Ebay and of different coloues and sizes.
Allen Steinburg November 18, 2009 08:30PMSorry about the typos. I really must proof read my posts first!
I have learned to use and cherish the edit button at the bottom of these fields. It has allowed me to clean up after myself many times.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2009 12:36AM by Rock Currier.
Donald Slater November 18, 2009 08:59PMI first saw these in Tucson several years ago. The Australian dealer selling them said they were made by melting quartz, probably quartz sand, and adding cinnabar and barite. I am not too sure why barite, but the color looks right for cinnabar. I didn't notice if the dealer on Ebay was saying they are natural and genuine, buy most dealers I have seen selling them are selling them as man made.
Steve Hardinger November 18, 2009 09:58PMIt's pretty clear these are made by combing quartz and smelt, a type of fish. Hence the name 'smelt quartz.'
Now that's funny.
Or 'smelt' refers to 'melting' as in 'to smelt an ore.' In this case I believe the term refers to the melting of glass (and probably not quartz) followed by the addition of some coloring agent.
Whether from melting or from fish, these 'smelt quartz' are pretty but definitely not natural.
ZeePea May 11, 2011 02:09AMHi Mira Bai, just saw your comments so perhaps I can contribute some info. There is really a word called "smelting". You can look it up in the Wikipedia or World Dictionary.
"Smelting is a heat treatment for separating metals from their ores. The ore, often with other ingredients, is heated in a furnace to remove non-metallic constituents. The metal produced is later purified."
In the smelted quartz, it is my understanding that when adding raw materials such as manganese (Mn) the result will be violet crystal, adding cobalt (Co) will be blue crystal, add chromium (Cr) for green crystal, adding selenium (Se) for the red crystal, add the liquid gold for the gold ruby color crystal, add doped (Er) compared with rose-colored crystal, adding cerium (Ce) yellow crystal, add neodymium (Nd) for light purple crystals. Quartz is in such abundance in China and labor so cheap that they can afford to melt down the crystal, remove all the impurities and add color as they see fit. I mostly find clear crystal infused with red since the Chinese believe that red is a color for prosperity.
I practice Feng Shui and bought myself one of these "smelt quartz" with red infused in it, bubbles and all! The bubbles are from the air trapped in the crystal when it hardened. It brought me a lot of pleasure without breaking the bank.
David Von Bargen May 12, 2011 03:27PMYou really don't end up with any kind of decent crystals if you just melt the quartz crystals. You can grow decent sized crystals of quartz in hydrothermal bombs (silica dissolved in high pressure, hot water) and could add ppm's of coloring agents.
Jamey Swisher May 21, 2011 05:34AMIf they are melting the quartz to add the color then essentially they are creating a man-made silica glass, no longer quartz as I understand it. There is a product that is made for gemstone cutting from melting chalcedony and adding in proprietary ingredients for colors and better optical properties, but it is a chalcedonic based glass.
Anonymous User May 25, 2011 09:21PMi found a chineese minerals dealers who show mr how this “ smelt quartz ” was made it's a furnace products glass melted with dying agents .sorry i can create a link to this files but if you search on google about cherry volcano quartz or smelted quartz you will found it faster.if you believe they dying natural quartz you're really far from the truth .i buy a cut gem supposed to be quartz with rhodochrosites but when i receive it i see really faster than kind of the same shit .i send a message to the chineese sellers who never anwsered cause of sellers like this i dont trust any dealer from china.i want to find some guys good with computers to help me create a list of all the minerals sellers who's scam people or are too stupids to really know what they offered than customers can avoid them like plagues.you sell a fakes minerals without say it before your on the list.you sell it without know your on the list.not all a message board about fakes just a easy list to read .
Anonymous User May 25, 2011 09:37PMyou post your stories and some guys evaluated if this must go on the list or not .this kind of sellers have many tricks to fools peoples they ask to friends to buy them stones to boost to the maximum their number of star with a 100% rate of feedback and they refund them after that .i often see dealers offering 10 times the same stone with the same incusions at the same place.they send you menace message saying than they will let you a bad feedback if you let them one and if is not enough they change the name of the shop and restart from the begining.i send a good feedback to one of them and cause he believe i love his shop he send me message to informed me than his shop had change of name .he change 3 times since the beginning of the year.oh i must stop talking about them the will cursed me l.o.l..bye
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 11:15AM by Yanick Beaudet.
Tina Oken June 15, 2011 01:50AM>:D< I have bought several crystals from ebay-some from China and some from Australia, I did purchase the red ones and am looking forward to receiving them, but I will not add them to my other REAL crystals. Tanks for all the post and information about crystals. I for one appreciate it when people share information to keep the consumer from being scammed.
scott taylor September 01, 2011 02:59PMI could be mistaken but I believe glass is basically made by melting quartz sand and silica into a liquid state. Whether you use quartz sand or actual quartz crystals the result is the same, the micro crystals of quartz are destroyed in the melting process and either way regardless of colorization what you end up with is just ordinary everyday glass. Whether it's molded in the shape of a natural quartz crystal, a sphere, a sculpture or a common drinking glass it's all just glass. As long as the seller clearly states that it's smelted or melted or manufactured I see nothing wrong with selling it, however it probably should be listed under glassware and not in the mineral/crystal section on eBay.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2011 05:53PM by Uwe Kolitsch.
Kiana May 15, 2012 04:05AMI broke my clear quartz wand today. It was about 5cm long and the thickness of a thumb. It fell from my fingers as I was heading into the subway. It completely shattered into 4 pieces. I even got sliced when picked up a piece. I bought it when I was in South Africa at a gem store. Now that I've read a few posts, how can you tell if what your buying is real quartz or if it is glass??
Also, any spiritual people out there who might know what the event might signify??
*sad girl in Montreal, Canada*
James Christopher May 15, 2012 05:42AMIf you hold polarized sunglasses up to a LCD monitor and rotate them until they block the light, and rotate quartz around the central point of it's length(like a propeller) between the monitor and sunglasses, it will blink as it lets light pass and not pass. Glass will not change when you do this with it.
Alfredo Petrov May 15, 2012 08:20AMKiana, re "what the event might signify"... It signifies that you should keep your nice quartz crystals wrapped up in a padded box while running to the subway. ;-)
The good news is that quartz crystals of 5cm length like yours are very common, so you shouldn't have any trouble at all replacing it inexpensively if you visit a mineral show/gemboree. Better yet, join your local mineral club and they might be able to point you to a field trip you could join to go dig up a virgin quartz crystal from the ground yourself, which is quite a lot more fun than buying them, and saves you from all sorts of scams by "spiritual" business folk who will overcharge you shamelessly for a crystal with alleged extra supernatural powers that no instrument can detect.
Rock Currier May 15, 2012 08:43AMIf the broken pieces of your quartz will scratch window glass, you can be pretty sure it is real quartz. Was it a natural crystal or was it a cut and polished replica of a quartz crystal? Those are generally made from real quartz as well. If it was a natural quartz crystal, look for the natural striations on the prism faces that run perpendicular to the C axis (the long dimension of the crystal) If it scratches glass and has the striations, it is certainly quartz.
Crystals not pistols.
Cheryl Hurst June 30, 2012 10:22PMA friend was really happy to give me this piece, because she was told it was a crystal. I think it is what this discussion was about smelt quartz, because I see bubbles with my loop, and it is the size of a bowling ball. So I guess buyer beware.
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Micah July 16, 2012 01:07AMThere are a lot of factors here to the distinctions being made. To recap: smelted quartz is fake, and consists of melted glass, therefore the advertised product is a deception.
Now I pose an innocent question inspired by jamie swishers statement.
What is the diference between quartz and the silicone glass? is the distinction valid? What is the diference between quartz and glass. DISTINCTIONS OTHER than the fact
that the quartz grows and glass or silicone glass is "smelted"?
I will share some information I have uncovered thanks to google chrome.
I looked up Silicone glass and found it is used for movies when they need actors or stuntmen to go through glass. I found this most worth noting because I am a filmaker myself But i found that most glass contains silicone BECAUSE:
The silicate minerals make up the largest and most important class of rock-forming minerals, constituting approximately 90 percent of the crust of the Earth. They are classified based on the structure of their silicate group. Silicate minerals all contain silicon and oxygen.
Now what is glass made out of? Most glass is made with silicates, Silicates include Quartz. so in my thinking the difference that they are melted or not as a prime factor in the validity of the aforementioned smelted quartz. As I see it that is an honest description of what it is. Though if you can clarify of correct please do. Im not a geologist or chemist.
Rob Woodside July 16, 2012 01:22AMSilicone glass is presumably a glass which has no crystal structure. A crystal structure is a bunch of atoms in a certain arrangement that is symmetrically repeated to fill space and make a crystal you can hold in your hand. Glasses on the other hand are usually spaghetti like strings of negatively charged ions whose charge osbalanced by single positive ions, The string are intertwined together in a complicated mess that has no symmetry. The strings are so tangled that they can't relax into a nice symmetric crystal. I hope that helps. .
Bart Cannon July 16, 2012 03:14AM"Silicone" is NOT silicon. Silicone is a flexible, rubbery material with some silicon in its mixture. I do not know the manner in which this material is made.
Standard window glass is also known as a soda glass. It contains sodium, calcium and aluminum which makes it easier to melt than pure quartz.
Quartz glass is a very specialized material, and difficult to work with. It has a very high melting point.
Rock Currier July 16, 2012 11:05AMMicah,
I think you need to learn a little about chemistry. Did you ever grow salt or sugar crystals on a string in school? Quartz, as a mineral are the elements silicon and oxygen that have been dissolved in a solution of some sort and have precipitated out of solution into a crystalline lattice. If there is open space in the ground when the crystals grow, like in cracks in sandstone or ancient gas bubbles in basalt they form quartz crystals that collectors cherish. I don't think there is any official definition of what smelt quartz is, so I guess you can use the term how ever you want, but it usually refers to a man made melt of some kind that often contains silica or silicon dioxide, but when it cools it does not have time to arrange itself into a crystalline lattice like quartz crystals and does not have the same physical properties as quartz. The name was originated like thousands of similar terms to trade on a "higher value" name in order to dupe people into thinking the stuff is something other than the real thing. Originally the term crystal referred to quartz crystals. Quartz crystals in antiquity were the standard against which transparency of solid things was measured. Originally the makers of glass could not match the transparency of natural crystal, but as they got better and their goods more transparent and clear they started calling their stuff crystal to trade on a "higher value" name. Eventually all the glass makers called their transparent glass crystal and today when you use the word crystal, most people think of glass. They completely stole the name.
I was under the impression that "movie glass" that stunt men crashed through was made by melting sugar into flat transparent sheets or molding it into bottles.
Crystals not pistols.
Bart Cannon July 16, 2012 01:37PMI've never wondered about "movie glass", but it sure seems likely that sugar glass is safer to get thrown through than real window glass.
My house has 100 year old window glass in places. It shows ripples and other defects. I consider those panes valuable antiques. But then I consider many useless things valuable. I'm crazy. Are there any completely rational Mindaters ?
In modern times, window glass is made by pouring soda glass melt onto molten tin. A very flat surface results. It is called "float glass".
I love the technology involved in the simple things we take for granted.
Uwe Ludwig July 16, 2012 02:49PMThe renewing of this thread renewed also an old question which is still in my mind.
During my business live I travelled frequently to China. In Hongkong I saw at a temple gardens sculptures of dragons with glass like bowls as eyes and some of them had such a bowl also on the tongue. The bowls consists of a colourless, transparent material with some small bubbles inside. The bowls look like cheap paperweights. So far so good, however, beside the sculpture was a table made of bronze with the name of the donor of the “Dragon Eyes”. The worth of such a bronze table would be the manyfold of a glass paperweight. Therefore I assumed that the “Dragon eyes” are not made of simple glass.
My Chinese colleagues meant that these Dragon Eyes are made of a natural, very rare material but they had no more information about that.
Has anybody of you more information about that ?
Spencer Ivan Mather July 16, 2012 04:58PMThese have been about for a few years now, a friend of mine in Holland bought some made into a beaded necklace, but didn't know that they were fake, but then again she isn't a gemmologist or mineral colloctor, she took them back to the shop and got her money back, after I pointed out to the dealer that they were fake.
Evan Johnson (2) July 16, 2012 11:29PMTo answer an earlier comment, the ripples and so on are not caused by the fluidity of glass. This has been pretty extensively disproven. Think of precision telescope mirrors and the tolerances to which they are ground, and what effect the distortion would have over time. Rather, the thicker bottom is related to the method of production. Instead of the aforementioned float process on Sn, glass had to be blown or treated similarly to form windows. I think there's an article about it on Wikipedia somewhere.
Bart Cannon July 17, 2012 02:30AMEvan,
I was planning to make that point.
My 60 year old windows show no ripples or other distortions. Perfect from top to bottom.
Colored "art glass" and some "stained" glass are designed to show ripples. The pigments are a horror story of toxic metals.
I have some interesting books about what is termed "pressed glass".
It is an old technique, but is still used today to simulate ornate crystal, though it fools no one..
A carefully formed mold is filled with molten soda glass, sometimes pigmented and then a plunger is driven into the mold.
The shapes produced are very beautiful and can be incredibly intricate. Moslty for goblets and such.
My favorite is "Sandwich Glass" by Ruth Webb Lee. All about the Boston and Sandwich Glass Company of Sandwich Village near Boston..
Don't know if the name Sandwich Glass relates to the food item, but the process is surely sandwich like.
If anyone has any broken fragments of early Roman Glass to donate to me, I would love to get some X-Ray spectra from them.
Bart Cannon July 17, 2012 06:53AMSteve R.
Art and antiquities authentication was one of the directions I once favored as a direction for my business. It's part of the reason I have a huge library. Thinking I needed to know something about everything, and that book space was more important than living space.
It turns out that it is a starvation business practice. People come to you to confirm their treasures AFTER they buy them so my job became giving them the bad news.
I still like books more than Google.
Anonymous User July 18, 2012 11:13AMhi , we often talk about looking for bubbles into the pieces to help identify glass material . but i think it's can difficult for newcomers to make the difference between enhydro in a real quartz point and bubbles in fakes glass made look alike quartz points .I think we must explain the difference cause im think than many real quartz points with enhydros will be trash away.
Anonymous User July 19, 2012 01:26AMyes cause us we know what we talking about but it's not the case for everyone .the proof my sister really believe a long time than the quartz from herkimer i give her was fakes ones cause of the air bubble in the enhydro.im telling her to check if she seen bubbles in the pieces she buy to find the difference with glass.the first quartz points she bought in his life look all like the kind of thing we seen in this topic.the guy who's open this topic dont even know where to find simple real quartz point .how we can know he dont make the same idiot mistake .we receive help request for id of simple clear quartz point each month on this website.i dont think this kind of members known a simple thing about minerals .if we dont explained them well the will never learn. it's why i made this message. I kwow it's bring nothing new to many of us.
Owen Lewis (2) July 20, 2012 01:46AMEvan Johnson (2) Wrote:
> To answer an earlier comment, the ripples and so
> on are not caused by the fluidity of glass. This
> has been pretty extensively disproven. Think of
> precision telescope mirrors and the tolerances to
> which they are ground, and what effect the
> distortion would have over time. Rather, the
> thicker bottom is related to the method of
> production. Instead of the aforementioned float
> process on Sn, glass had to be blown or treated
> similarly to form windows. I think there's an
> article about it on Wikipedia somewhere.
It may depend on the composition (and age?) of the glass.
In the UK, I have seen large Carolean glass window panes in their original frames and where, over the course of 350 years, the glass had 'flowed' so that when, viewed from outside at a suitable angle, it seems to hang, almost like cloth, in swags.There is no way that effect could have been created in manufacture (IMHO).
Evan Johnson (2) July 20, 2012 10:10AMHaving found the original Wikipedia link I referenced, I post the subheading here:
One can follow the references and agree, or not. Of course, I can't speak to what you observed, and I guess it's conceivably possible that a MUCH lower-melting glass was used, and was therefore fluid over long time scales. However, I still suspect it is a manufacturing issue.
Owen Lewis (2) July 20, 2012 02:54PMThanks. That was an interesting link. It may be that 'flow' is the wrong explanation. Imagine that a large, heavy but relatively thin sheet of glass is suspended in a slightly loose fitting frame that does not firmly clamp the glass to the frame. The result would be that the entire weight of the pane of rests on the small surface area of the bottom edge with a relatively large downward force per unit of area. Now, if glass truly flowed, however slowly then, over a long period, the glass would flow into any crack, hole or unevenness in the bottom of the frame, the bearing surface. But no one has (AFAIK) either seen such a phenomenon nor claimed that such should occur. So we need to look for some other explanation (leaving on the side for now the assertion that 'it must be set in the manufacturing process'.
Glass behaves differently under tension and compression. Also, some behaviour varies non-linearly with the thickness of a sample. Under tension, glass exhibits a tensile strength similar to that of steel. Under compression, glass demonstrates the property of elasticity and has a substantial coefficient of restitution (commonly observed by dropping a ball onto a slab of the same composition). It's commonly assumed that, when the elasticity of a piece of glass is exceeded, it must instantly shatter and that, there can be no condition of permanent deformation (at NTP) as easily observed in many solids. But can there be permanent, if slight, distortion set up un glass where:
- The area of the distorted glass sheet is a very large area relative to the size of the permanent distortion.
- The pressure over area is sufficiently high and maintained uniformly over a very extended period.
- During a very extended period, the glass is not held at a constant temperature but heated and cooled in 24 hr cycles unequally on both sides of the sheet, with temperatures varying between absolute maxima and minima of -20 to +35 deg C and with temperature shift within any one 24 hour cycle being limited to no more than 30 deg C.
That under such circumstances a small amount permanent distortion might occur does seem as likely as the *assumption* that 'swagging' in some large antique glass sheets must be caused in the manufacturing process and not developed subsequently 'in situ'. That some permanent shape distortion can develop in almost all solids is generally well known. The point of interest is the extent to which it could be shown to exist in antique window glass within the environmental parameters loosely set out here.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2012 03:05PM by Owen Lewis (2).
Owen Lewis (2) July 22, 2012 11:04PMNot really. We all know, roughly, the flow property of glass above a certain temperature (approaching red heat). And there is no doubt that gross thickness variations used to occur in the manufacture of window glass as a matter of course. What I was trying to convey it that might be possible for some permanent distortion to occur where the pane is constantly in a state of some considerable internal stress from its own weight (in the case of very large panes and exposed 24 hour cycles of heating and cooling with a temperature change of up to about 50 deg C and repeated throughout more than three centuries.
Whatever, it seems to be very unlikely that a 'swagging' effect could be caused in manufacture - it only because is would be quite common if it was. I don't think it is common; I have seen it only a couple of times in my life and on both occasions in uncommonly large and very old panes of window glass. These in themselves are quite a rarity I think.
Lauri September 07, 2012 08:09PMI just bought some blue smeltz quartz crystals on E-Bay, luckily they didn't cost much. When I got them I could see many small bubbles and wondered if they were man made or not, they looked too perfect. Well now I know. Thanks for the info I should have looked this up first. They are pretty, but made in China!
Anonymous User September 09, 2012 02:39AMhi . smelted quartz always come polish and with a too perfect shaped to be real . i found no reasons to polish quartz others than be able to easily seen the inclusions from an other minerals. never buy polished quartz except with minerals inclusions it's best way to never been scam. anyway polished quartz crystals and without matrix or inclusions doesn't have his place in a serious collection at all. let this kind of stuff to people who want to decorate their home with.bye
Ash May 12, 2013 06:26PMI don't understand how they could say smelt quartz is useless, if its quartz melted down and elements added to it how is I any different than aqua aura quartz which people love so dearly but it's just quartz infused with gold and most citrine crystal are not genuine because it is rare. Some people even use goldstone which is man made or any dyed crystals so I don't think that altered crystals should be shot down and separated from "real" crystals because when it comes to what energy you want from them it's 90% intention anyway.
Yohoho and a bucket of Yo April 03, 2015 03:03AM"smelted quartz" is probably a CHINESE commercial nickname for the infamous SLAG GLASS (a sort of opaline glass, which is an almost opaque milky looking glass with streaks of colors , appearing like a cross between christmas candy canes and agates) that was much in favour some time ago , and if you know what slag glass looks like, you'll notice it has exactly the same aspect.
This sort of glass is made generally from recycled glass and or sand with pigments and fluxes, sometimes with a certain proportion of lead oxide .
Every decade or so, low quality stones and forgotten glass products are rebranded for commercial purposes, since there is a demand for "magical" stones. Whata world of retarded sheep and crooks who prey on them.
Yohoho and a bucket of Yo April 03, 2015 03:17AMOf course I was speaking of the "smelt quartz" sold by rikoo dot com (known for epoxying broken stones together...) .
Their "smelt glass is the slag glass type (opaque) , but I just saw some other types of "smelt quartz" and I ama extremely surprised the chinese use a commercial name that covers types of glass that are so different in aspect; ranging from milky and opaque to translucid and almost transparent.
The opaline/slag type ones are often shaped as rounded massage items and paperweights while the clearer ones are shaped into "wands" and faceted to lure the clients into thinking it is a natural crystal product.
All in all , it's probably an all around commercial name for chinese recycled glass of various types.
Al November 10, 2016 03:13AMthanks,, I will damn sure look closer . and the China thing did/was giving me pause. but I did not listen to that little voice (that is almost always right) and bought one anyway ------- ONCE Thanks again .. it seems that good judgment is most often the end product of a bad choice on someone's part
Kevin Maurer August 18, 2017 02:24PMI also wanted to chime in with some information I have learned... some of it the hard way...
Smelt quartz is a term most commonly used for melting quartz. as would be expected, it basically becomes glass.
The other part of this, is resin... think decorative counter tops. not the really cool radioactive granite, but the other stuff that looks like it was cut from a slab of quartz rock.
there are currently two types.
One is Breton, which contains 10% resin, just enough to glue it together before it is heated and melted together.
The other is Keda, which uses more resin, and is also heated.
My observations have been that you cannot see the air bubbles with the naked eye, and are usually still undetectable with a jewelers loop. Although, under higher magnification, Gem professionals microscope more than 40X power, I started seeing the air bubbles around 80x power. These air bubbles were formed along curved striations, next to melted granules of quartz, and in the inclusions.
Has anyone else made these same observations?
Owen Lewis August 18, 2017 08:55PMSomething wrong there, Kevin, I think.
- What will happen to a resin if it is heated to the temperature required to melt quartz?
- If resin is being used to stabilise quartz dust/chips to form as a single piece, why heat at all, let alone melt the quartz?
- Spotting air bubbles... what are you spotting, the occasional individual bubble or bubbles en masse?
Or do I misunderstand?
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2017, except where stated. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters.