Log InRegister
Quick Links : The Mindat ManualThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryMindat Newsletter [Free Download]
Home PageAbout MindatThe Mindat ManualHistory of MindatCopyright StatusWho We AreContact UsAdvertise on Mindat
Donate to MindatCorporate SponsorshipSponsor a PageSponsored PagesMindat AdvertisersAdvertise on Mindat
Learning CenterWhat is a mineral?The most common minerals on earthInformation for EducatorsMindat ArticlesThe ElementsThe Rock H. Currier Digital LibraryGeologic Time
Minerals by PropertiesMinerals by ChemistryAdvanced Locality SearchRandom MineralRandom LocalitySearch by minIDLocalities Near MeSearch ArticlesSearch GlossaryMore Search Options
Search For:
Mineral Name:
Locality Name:
Keyword(s):
 
The Mindat ManualAdd a New PhotoRate PhotosLocality Edit ReportCoordinate Completion ReportAdd Glossary Item
Mining CompaniesStatisticsUsersMineral MuseumsClubs & OrganizationsMineral Shows & EventsThe Mindat DirectoryDevice SettingsThe Mineral Quiz
Photo SearchPhoto GalleriesSearch by ColorNew Photos TodayNew Photos YesterdayMembers' Photo GalleriesPast Photo of the Day GalleryPhotography

GeneralTouchenite or Riebeckite?

16th May 2010 23:37 UTCChristopher Carlucci

Hello,

A while back I posted a topic on a strange NJ rock that very little is known about called " Touchenite." It was understood that the rock known as Touchenite is actually RIEBECKITE or Silicified Croc, thanks to Mindat users!. However the Touchenite that I have found looks much different than Riebeckite photos I've seen online. I posted some pictures of a potato sized chunk I recently dug out of NJ. Any comments or info would be great. Also sorry for the low-grade photos. This rock really sparkles blue,gold,velvet in the sun.

17th May 2010 02:10 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

Hello Christopher.....it certainly looks like riebeckite to me - one of my favorite minerals under the polarizing microscope!.....I have no idea what silicified croc is, however.....enlighten me?


Don S.

17th May 2010 05:06 UTCAndrew G. Christy Manager

Silicified crocidolite = fibrous variety of riebeckite, replaced by quartz

17th May 2010 19:06 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

AAAHHHHH.....silicified crocIDOLITE.....can you tell, I don't text!!.......


Don S.

24th May 2010 17:43 UTCEric Stanchich

Chris,


This is a gorgeous specimen!!


I have spent many a day in the creekbeds.....searching for Carnelian and Touchenite.


In my experiences......I have never heard anyone ever mention Riebeckite.


Touchenite and Carnelian are both Quartz. From what I know, the glimmer in Touchonite is from Quartz altering it's chemical composition over time via being submersed in water or water soaked grey/green clay.


Please let me know if you specimen is for sale?


Regards,


Eric Stanchich.

25th May 2010 12:56 UTCRock Currier Expert

I finally discovered that if you can get to the right creek bed your searching can be several hundred times more productive than if you try and beat to death old heavily collection and really never really productive areas near your home.

25th May 2010 14:10 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

I was in this creek with my son the other day(we live five minutes down the road) and there was someone downstream who was there for the first time. He was asking what could be found besides the obvious Carnellian. I mentioned I had once found an Amethyst point. He proceeded to find one. I then mentioned Chert. He proceeded to find a piece as big as a baseball. I debated shutting up at that point but I mentioned Touchenite/Riebeckite. He then found a chunk of fibrous material that reminded me of picrolite.


AJ then said-Dad don't forget to tell him about the arrowhead. We left before he could find one.

27th May 2010 01:35 UTCChristopher Carlucci

Thanks so much to every one for there comments and info about the Touchenite/Riebeckite. I'm still not sold on what this stuff is, maybe Kryptonite? I just haven't found a photographic match. Im sure it is Riebeckite but if anyone has a photo of Riebeckite with blue,green and gold fibers please post. I have to post some more of my finds soon, I just don't have the time. Eric Stanchich you can e mail me at www.carluccidesign@hotmail.com for a possible sale or trade. I would be glad to talk with you. I hear that this stuff cuts and polishes really nice. Also what you said about the Quartz being colored by the clay makes sense too.

To David, That was a funny story! You found an Amethyst arrowhead? I heard of Carnelian arrowheads before. I found a bunch of arrowheads back there but not Carnelian or Amethyst. I think the ultimate would be a Touchenite arrowhead. I found Opal back there too with fire in it. also I think Touchenite looks more like picrolite than Riebeckite as well. Thanks.

27th May 2010 03:46 UTCDavid Bernstein Expert

Hi,


No, no,not an Amethyst arrowhead, just an Amethyst crystal point. Regular arrowhead. You never know what you will fish out of that brook.

28th May 2010 01:45 UTCChristopher Carlucci

Me again.. Here are some more photos of my findings at carnelian creek NJ. Check out the Opal. Its a peice of Amethyst with Opal inside it. More photos to comw.

28th May 2010 01:51 UTCChristopher Carlucci

More....

28th May 2010 01:56 UTCChristopher Carlucci

And some more...

16th Jun 2011 20:13 UTCAnonymous User

Hey Chris, I had a friend point out this thread to me. I have some of this material that a friend of mine gave me and has traded with me before in the past. Some with gold some with blue. He always spelled it Tueschenite, as have I, but good to see it might be spelled differently amongst those in the know. From the info I have gleaned it only comes from a few streams in New Jersey. My buddy pete collects carnelian and Tueschenite/touchenite at the same location. Here is a link to a thread he posted on another site. There is another thread he did with more info somewhere on the site that I need to find

http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Finds&thread=6364&page=1

For some reason I think he had mentioned crocidolite before but don't quote me on that

The first batch I ever got was one piece that I had cabbed. He has since sent me better material with the great blue and some better gold but it's all still in rough form except for these two cabbed pieces from the first piece I ever got. Sorry about bad pic..took this back when I was a noob with camera years ago
http://www.varockhounder.com/uploads/2011061612071224.jpg

16th Jun 2011 20:33 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

"Tueschenite" and "touchenite" seem to be misspellings, the correct version perhaps being TOUCHONITE, as Mindat's page on the topic says it was named after "Leon Touchon, tavern and convenience store owner in Warren Township, New Jersey". Nevertheless, Mindat also says touchonite is synonymous with carnelian, which may be wrong, as I've only ever heard the term used by local collectors for the chatoyant material, not the carnelian.


I've not seen any analyses of the chatoyant material, but it looks very much like the blue chatoyant South Africa material which turned out to be riebeckite and quartz fibers in parallel growth (not "silicified crocidolite" or quartz pseudomorphs after riebeckite, as had been previously thought). Anyone want to sacrifice a rice-grain-sized fragment for X-ray diffraction?


Anyway, professional mineralogists don't get at all excited by local names for varieties of varieties of minerals, so don't anyone expect the International Mineralogical Association to promulgate an edict from on high defining this material - Won't ever happen, so the locals can just fight among themselves about how to define it :(

17th Jun 2011 00:21 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Congrats Alfredo!!

You are the one to get it CORRECT!!

Leon Touchon had a gas station/service station near the brook in Warren, NJ and besides the carnelian the riebeckite included agate/carnelian was found in moderate abundance near his station and the locals here in NJ have called it "Touchonite" for at least 60+ years. A local varietal name to be sure! Some specimens are chatoyant with a deep blue color others are golden and some are mixed blue/golden. Some still have the riebeckite intact and present on the surface, some are nearly complete replacements with agate and the golden is most likely from the high iron content of the host rock (basalt fissures and pockets). One of the key field identifiers of this material is the presence of negative casts of almost cubic calcite crystals on the intact outer surfaces of the carnelian, while only a few of the "Touchonite" pieces actually have this feature. One can easily find quartz points up to almost two inches. Yes a few carnelian arrowheads have been found (saw one at the NJESA show in Franklin,NJ) and some of the small carnelian nodules have some opal (usually white) lining internal openings. The old-timers found red and white banded carnelian and the rare stalactitic forms.

Congrats on your new finds!!

Steve.

17th Jun 2011 01:32 UTCAnonymous User

Well it sure is refreshing to finally get some good answers on this material. Thanks alfredo and steven

25th Aug 2015 19:14 UTCKurt A. Wehmann

Jason Baskin at The Gem Vault in Flemington, N.J. can tell you more about Riebeckite. He has cut and polished the stuff. I on the other hand grew up in Berkeley Hts, N.J. where Carnelian is much more common. Teueschenite and Carnelian occur together in Glacial Till Deposits further west in Watchung and Warren N.J.

25th Aug 2015 20:39 UTCD. Peck

I lived for 40+ years about a mile from the site. And, Chris, I never found any pieces of "Touchonite" that came close to being as good as yours. The stream is on the maps as Sterling Brook (not Carnelian Brook) and it is well inside Warren, NJ (by better than a mile) and is not in Sterling, a village in Passaic Twp. that us often and mistakenly cited as the site. (pun intended) Alfredo and Steve are right on. BTW the gas station is gone. It is now Rolf's Restaurant.

27th Mar 2019 17:03 UTCJeremy K.

09420540016017858927446.jpg
Hi all,


I acquired this piece from an old lapidary collection that included many unusual materials including some eastern localities (Crabtree emerald, etc.). It resembles examples of “touchenite” or chalcedony replacement of fibrous minerals. Anyone familiar with the material who can give some more insight? Thanks!

08313700015652912346974.jpg

09770910015652912348579.jpg

28th Mar 2019 00:02 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Jeremy,


Can you tell us where it is from? If it is from Warren, NJ, "Touchonite" from there is a local name, after Leon Touchon who owned a business on the property where it is dug. I believe the mineral is really silicified riebeckite (not carnelian as indicated in mindat). I lived about a mile from that locality for 42 years. Also, Leon operated a gas station not a convenience store or tavern as indicated on mindat. Alfredo, Steve, and I have all explained this already, above.


Don

28th Mar 2019 00:29 UTCJeremy K.

Hi Don,


I bought it from an old collection with no locality info. Was hoping those who have seen the Warren material might be able to weigh in on whether this piece looks similar or not and if there are any diagnostic features to look for.


Thanks!

28th Mar 2019 15:54 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Hi Jeremy,


Your piece doesn't look much like what I remember coming from the Warren, NJ location. But, it has been a long time. I don't remember that layered structure, nor much matrix with the pieces. I do remember the bluish gray chatoyancy, a lot like tigers-eye but the different color.


Don


Maybe Steve Kuitems will weigh in on this.

28th Mar 2019 16:31 UTCJeremy K.

Hi Don,


Thanks for the additional info. In hand, the piece is more brecciated than layered. One side has a surface pattern similar to picrolite or fibrous. The closeup is through a 10X Loupe showing the remnants of fibers that give it the chatoyance. Also no matrix on the piece - the bred/brown areas are a coating on the chalcedony. One side of the piece is fused breccia, the other is more linear.


-Jeremy

28th Mar 2019 16:35 UTCJeremy K.

05883690016017858976740.jpg
Here are some dry images in the sun if it helps.


Thanks!

00332810015652912355983.jpg

00991740015652912351254.jpg
 
Mineral and/or Locality  
Mindat Discussions Facebook Logo Instagram Logo Discord Logo
Mindat.org is an outreach project of the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization.
Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2024, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: March 29, 2024 05:09:16
Go to top of page