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GeneralSalt of the earth: Halite and other evaporites

3rd Feb 2013 21:21 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

Interesting timing: the latest Min Rec coincides with "h" for halite in my cataloging project. Inspires me to invite you to post photos of your halite and other evaporate minerals!

This a 2.5 x 2.2 x 2.0 cleavage of halite from Goderich, Ontario. I got the idea to photograph it this way from someone here on Mindat - name forgotten, I'm afraid, but thanks for the tip!

Maggie

PS - the Min Rec issue by Philip Simmons is a GREAT read, and ties in with other current topics about collecting at operating mines.

3rd Feb 2013 22:19 UTCPhilip Simmons

Maggie,

Thanks for the kind words! I have been fortunate and blessed to be in the right place at the right time to collect the blue halite and other evaporite minerals from the Carlsbad mines. Thankfully my supervisors don't have a major problem with mineral collecting, as long as I do it on my own time. Hopefully our management will continue to maintain this enlightened philosophy concerning the preservation of our mineral heritage. I have already posted the pic below in another thread, but for the people who haven't had a chance to read the article and see some of the specimens that have been found, here is one of the best blue halites found from Carlsbad, New Mexico in the past 3-4 years. Please note that the majority of the colorless to white mineral associated with the blue halite from Carlsbad is sylvite, not halite. I have quite a few specimen photos that did not make the cut for the MR article, and I think it would be fun to post them here as time allows.

Blue halite with minor sylvite, 8.1 cm.

4th Feb 2013 05:37 UTCJake Harper Expert

Philip,

Superb MR article!

I've only read it four times over since receiving it -- and I am still not done. Of course, the collecting stories are HIGHLY entertaining -- but I must say that I've become slightly obsessed with the beauty of those specimen photos as well. I really look forward to seeing more here. Thanks for a great article and your hard work!

Jake

4th Feb 2013 05:50 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Philip!

Fantastic article. Amazing photos. A new world standard for halite!

Well done.

4th Feb 2013 18:32 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert

Indeed a great article and great photos, Philip!!! I hope someone will take the time to revise some of the Carlsbad District localities and historical mine names in Mindat, based on the information from your article. There are a few specimen photos under the District in "Eddy & Lea Counties" that can probably be moved to the appropriate mine in Eddy County (e.g. a couple of mine which are from "Mississipi Potash Mine East").

4th Feb 2013 19:01 UTCPhilip Simmons

Thanks, all!

Kelly, I have been pondering how to go about what you suggest. I guess I can post a notice in the "Errors" forum and we can work from there.

Based on my mine maps both the Intrepid Potash East (Mississippi Potash mine...) and North (National Potash mine...) mines have workings in Eddy and Lea counties, although all of the mineral specimen occurences of note in the article are located in Eddy County. The Intrepid Potash North mine is the only one that has the majority of workings in Lea County.

4th Feb 2013 19:47 UTCJeremy A. Zolan

I have recently been fascinated by the newly added photos of evaporites leached out of halite from the PCS Mine in NB, Canada. Are these evenly distributed through the halite mined there? Any possibility of finding more? New Brunswick seems like one of those places that's rich in potential mineralogical discoveries but not much in that realm (aside from mining companies prospecting) that's being done there. I love New Brunswick and want to make a trip back there some day. When I was last there, I sadly only did a bit of fossil collecting. I did find some wonderfully preserved fish fossils around Albert Mines though.

http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=15934

4th Feb 2013 22:35 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

Philip,

That was a great MR article. I enjoyed it very much. You conveyed the excitement of the finds very well and of course the specimens are amazing.

------------------------

Jeremy,

My understanding (second/third hand knowledge) is that the interesting NB borates etc were all from drill cores. I have heard in the news that there has been some preliminary work to open another potash mine nearby. Maybe there will be more drill cores!

-------------------------

My contribution to this thread will be an evaporite. This howlite only recently found its way into my collection.

5th Feb 2013 00:17 UTCRichard Gunter Expert

Phillip:

I really liked those photos. Blue Halite seems to be something quite unusual. The salt mines of the Windsor-Gorderich area do not have any that I know of and the only Canadian source is the Lanigan Mine. The Rocanville Potash Mine, which is in much the same strata as the Lanigan Mine, did not have any coloured Halite at all, only colourless.

Your explanation of the colouring mechanism for Halite in the MR article did not explain why it is so locallized within a deposit. The Canadian potash strata is constant over a large area and if radiation coloured one area the Halite should all be blue. My Blue Halite sample may be embedded in colourless Sylvite, though this is the first time I have seen that mentioned.

5th Feb 2013 00:58 UTCMaggie Wilson Expert

Hi Richard - this will be a surprise to you then - a cleavage of blue halite from Les Mines Seleine Quebec.

Great to see the posts. I'm glad that Philip re-posted the Carlsbad piece!

Thanks, Jeremy for directing me to the NB material, and Ronnie! Spectacular howlite - from a treacherous site and such dimensions and quality!

5th Feb 2013 11:19 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

I've also seen a blue halite cleavage from the Pugwash Mine here in Nova Scotia, on display at Dalhousie University several years ago. I went looking for it a while back (to photograph) it but it is no longer on display. I have to ask to make sure they still have it.

5th Feb 2013 15:24 UTCRichard Gunter Expert

Hi Maggie:

That is an interesting sample. Are you sure it is a cleavage and not an embedded Halite crystal in later Halite? The blue Halite seems to need some sort of remobilization to form. The "salt pegmatites" in the Windsor Salt Mine can be quite spectacular in grain size, Halite cleavages larger than 50 cm, but not a bit of colour. Ronnie, if the university has a cleavage of blue Halite a picture would be useful. It is interesting that both the east coast examples are in salt deposits and not in potash while the New Mexico and Saskatchewan examples are in potash ore and not the accompanying Halite beds.

5th Feb 2013 16:46 UTCPhilip Simmons

Richard,

Thanks for the great questions! If you notice in the article I wrote "Halite Coloration Theories" meaning that there are several theories that exist for the blue halite coloring mechanism. The major theory I presented is based on the research I did as well as observations of the environment in which the halite specimens were found.

In the occurence of blue halite at the two mines in which I work, the blue halite is always associated with colorless (or "high-grade") sylvite. I don't know much about the Canadian mines, but the vast majority of sylvite ore we mine in Carlsbad is red to orange, colored by finely divided hematite. In these areas, we never find blue halite unless there is "high-grade" present. Maybe there is something within the hematite included sylvite that inhibits the radiation effect upon surrounding halite? I have also observed many instances where two or more halite crystals are growing together in the high-grade sylvite seams, and when separated, the contact between the two halite crystals is completely colorless, while the surface areas that were in contact with the sylvite were blue to purple. This leads me to believe that the sylvite was in some way a major catalyst for the coloration of the halite. Remember, these are observations based on the occurence of halite in Carlsbad, not other world-wide occurences. I am not familiar enough with other localities to give you an explanation on coloration, especially in areas that contain no sylvite or other source of radiation.

In the article I also address another theory based on the observation you posted above. Since some of these deposits do not have a radiation source readily available, it could be possible that the color is due to the leaching of trace amounts NaBr present within the halite. Per my article (Sonnenfeld, 1995): "The phenomenon appears to be concentrated along paths of circulating brines, saturated for NaCl, that leach, brecciate and recrystallize halite and preferentially dislodge bromine ions from crystal lattices, leaving metallic sodium behind."

FYI - While any one particular coloring mechanism is not fully endorsed by all scientists, most of the research I conducted was in agreement that the metallic sodium colloids are the source of the color.

I hope this adequately answers your questions. If not, we can hash out more of these theories in detail. Like I mention above, there is more than one theory that have their strong and weak points. I chose to cover the radiation theory in the greatest amount of detail because it seems to present the most plausible explanation based on my research and real-time observations. We could also have more than one coloring mechanism, depending on the geology and type of deposit in which the halite is found.

Philip

5th Feb 2013 18:50 UTCPhilip Simmons

Hi all,

Here's a specimen of Aphthitalite from the major find in July 2011. The group was shot against a dark background, so you can see the transparency of the crystals. The specimen is 5.9 cm wide.

I love the color on that blue halite, Maggie!

I just added several photos of various minerals to the site, and once they get approved I will continue to post them here.

5th Feb 2013 19:39 UTCRichard Gunter Expert

Hi Phillip:

I agree these are all only theories for now. One of the interesting photos you showed was of the Halite stalactites in the workings, precipitating from inflowing water. In the Rocanville Mine a similar inflow lead to the crystallization of Halite, in quite large samples. All of the posted Halite pictures from Rocanville originated from that inflow. As far as I know there are no open cavities in the Saskatchewan potash beds so all of the evaporite phases occurred as grains embedded in the coarse-grained potash.

7th Feb 2013 02:20 UTCPhilip Simmons

It looks like my uploaded photos are in the database now, so I will periodically post them when I have some available time.

The specimen below is a large, completely transparent sylvite crystal that reportedly came from the famous discovery of the two enormous pockets in the PCA mine (HB Potash mine, etc.) in 1962. It is in the collection of one of my mineral collecting buddies, and was found in his uncle's or grandpa's old shed, sitting next to some old tools. The crystal is 12 x 12 cm.

7th Feb 2013 21:24 UTCStephen Rose Expert

Sylvite, Carlsbad Potash District, Eddy and Lea counties, New Mexico

I've had this one since 1965. It measures 10x6x4.5 cm with crystals to 1.5 cm.

7th Feb 2013 22:17 UTCPhilip Simmons

Stephen,

Are you sure that's sylvite and not halite? From looking at the picture, it looks like halite to me. In my experience, the sylvite from the Potash District usually has modified corners, while halite is usually strictly cubic. The easiest way to ID the specimen is to subject it to the old-fashioned taste test. :-D I do know that there have been finds many years previous to my working at the mines, so it is very possible it could be sylvite, I'm just curious.

Do you have any more specific locality data on the piece?

Since you have owned the piece for almost 50 years I'm curious as to what sort of climate you live in.

Best Regards,

Philip

7th Feb 2013 23:02 UTCStephen Rose Expert

Philip,

Truth be told I am not 100% certain given the time elapsed. I got it from a shop in Northern Indiana from a guy who spent quite a bit of time in the SW in the winter and who always had some interesting Mexican things but who was mostly a 'rock shop' type dealer. I have no additional information on the location but the "Carlsbad" on the label. My guess is that I gave it a lick or two before I sprayed it with acrylic (thus the preservation), but who knows? The next time I am rooting around in that stack of boxes I will carve off a few grains of matrix for my morning egg. It will help to keep my heart going pitter-pat. :)-D

Cheers!

Steve

10th Feb 2013 04:54 UTCPhilip Simmons

Here's my latest addition of the unusual minerals found in the Carlsbad Potash Basin. It's a sylvite pseudomorph after langbeinite from the Nash Draw mine, 750 level. I talked to a miner who actually collected these rarities, and he said they were located in a thick clay seam between two rich ore beds of sylvite. They were able to just pluck them out of the clay, although I don't think I've ever seen a truly perfect specimen. The majority of the pseudos found have a significant amount of damage to at least one of the corners. The specimen is 6.4 cm.

15th Mar 2013 12:51 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Hi Philip, I would use your knowledge, with your permission... I bought this huge crystal (over 6 cm in lenght) from a dealer that has sold already others like this one, labeled as Halite from Searles lake. But looks like a giant Pirssonite to me, has not a cubic symmetry in any way, natural inclusions, the composition of Na Cl. Can be some pseudomorphose? Have you seen already one? Thanks. Simone

15th Mar 2013 14:59 UTCDonald Peck

Hello Simone, That is a nice crystal and certainly not halite. Your suggestion that it is pirssonite seems good to me. It appears to be distinctly hemimorphic and with distinct 111 faces on the upper termination. If there is an inconspicuous spot or ding on it in any place, you might try a drop of dilute HCl. If it is pirssonite it should effervesce (but I would not want to spoil the crystal do do this)..

19th Mar 2017 12:22 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Donald, after a bit of years, after seen samples in the Searles Lake gallery and in some web site, results Gaylussite. What do you think about? Take a look. Ciao! Simone

19th Mar 2017 14:06 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Should be able to tell them apart by the hardness. Gaylussite is 2.5 and Pirsonnite is 3 to 3.5 in otherwords you should be able to scratch one with a piece of calcite but not the other (or only with great difficulty).

20th Mar 2017 08:31 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Dear Reiner, to me Pirssonite has definitely different morphology. Another problem. This probably Gaylussite ( it is slightly scratched from calcite and has the appearance of the crystal you can see in https://www.mindat.org/photo-629047.html )
has salty taste! I don't know if Gaylussite has salty taste, but is slightly soluble in water. It is absurd to think of a pseudomorph?

20th Mar 2017 12:56 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

I am inclined to agree that it is gaylussite as all the pirssonite crystals I have seen from there are small and tabular nothing like your specimen. Both are water soluble and should taste the same. Both are also unstable in air. Like Donald said a simple acid test will distinguish halite from gaylussite and pirssonite.

20th Mar 2017 13:24 UTCJamison K. Brizendine 🌟 Expert

My contribution to this thread are these halite crystals grown over a plank of pine wood that was collected from the Detroit Salt Company Mine. The dimensions are 34.3 cm x 6 cm x 2.1 cm.

Halite

Detroit Salt Company Mine, Detroit, Wayne County, Michigan, USA

21st Mar 2017 10:00 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Reiner, acid test negative, not effervescent as a carbonate Calcite-like (seen under the microscope. But note that Dolomite, a double carbonate of Ca and Mg, does not react with the cold HCl). So: hardness just under 3 (2,5), water soluble, salty taste. Seems to me a big Gaylussite crystal replaced by Halite. Gaylussite is also know altered in Calcite. Really no one has ever seen crystals like this one? Thanks fotr your help.

21st Mar 2017 11:47 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Dolomite is not soluble in water and any carbonate that is would most certainly effervesce in acid. Besides Dana says it effervesces in acid. I think you can safely conclude that you do not have a carbonate. It looks like the original ID is correct that it is halite (replacing gaylussite).

23rd Mar 2017 08:11 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Reiner, what do you think about this form?

23rd Mar 2017 11:38 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

Looks tetragonal to me.

23rd Mar 2017 13:10 UTCSimone Citon Expert

Yes, but I'm a poor crystal designer ... No, I contacted Jim Fairchild, of the SIGMS (Searles Lake Gem and Mineral Society), he answers to my questions:

"Dear Simone;

If your sample does not react with HCl, it can not be gaylusite (Na2CO # .CaCO3.5H2O). Being a carbonate mineral, gaylusite reacts strongly with HCl and other strong acids. Gaylusite would not have a salty taste; salty taste comes from the chloride ion.

A salty taste suggests it is a chloride mineral of some sort. My best guess is Halite That has an octahedral crystal habit. I have seen octahedral Halite fairly Often in the lake minerals So THAT would not be surprising to find That You specimen is halite. Often, octahedral halite is mistaken for sulfohalite, but the Halite is normally a very clear crystal whereas Sulfohalite is opaque, yellow or brown. You can see a diagram of octahedral halite at: http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/Diagrams.htm "

Then I took the example of the cuboctahedron found in that table, and I made a graphic design, creating a cuboctahedron deformed and modified (magnified octahedron faces). Look at the comparison with my crystal, then tell me what you think to consider this a Searles lake Halite crystal with deformed cuboctahedron habitus.

23rd Mar 2017 18:08 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

I suppose that is possible, it would make more sense than a pseudomorph.

24th Mar 2017 15:24 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Simone, have you tried rotating the crystal between crossed polarizers? If it is an elongated cubo octahedron, it should remain dark in all positions, but a tetragonal crystal should go dark (to extinction) only every 90 degrees(rotated around an a-axis).

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