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Techniques for CollectorsNumber of micromounters?

24th Feb 2016 03:30 UTCHenry Barwood

Does anyone have a reasonable estimate of the number of active micromounters in the US? World?

The reason I ask is because our Southeastern micro group has dwindled from around 25 to less than 10 over the last 3 years. Age, infirmity and death have decimated our group and we have no new people who are interested in viewing the little crystals (and, more importantly no one under 60 left in the group).

24th Feb 2016 04:35 UTCSteven Kuitems Expert

Henry, I know the feeling. Yes, I am 60 and one of my goals is to encourage young people to take a look in the scope or magnifying glass to start with. One way to possibly inspire them is to give mineral talks using the micro crystals to illustrate the theme. One can emphasize the benefits of crystal perfection, small size=small storage, using photography and cool digital devices if so inclined, usually lower costs to obtain specimens. Even field collecting you are often more likely to encounter small potential pieces rather than stunning large specimens.

Also that many of the species are only found in micro sizes.

One of the best things is to encourage the young persons parents if they are interested in furthering their child's hobby to invest in a good hand lens and then, collecting with their child and ultimately to get a good binocular 10-40 power microscope.

Having live collecting trips seems to be one of the biggest draws to introducing young people into the field.

Happy Recruiting

Steve.

24th Feb 2016 04:37 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

The micromount group on Facebook has 313 members, which gives a very rough idea of at least those internet-literate micromounters who read english and participate in social media. That list would exclude a lot of elderly micromounters who don't use the internet, and would also exclude those with privacy issues or who for whatever other reasons prefer not to hook up to social media like Facebook, and probably also excludes a lot of people who don't communicate in english. On the other hand, I also see some people on that list of 313 who aren't really micromounters, as far as I know. So taking into consideration all these points, I really don't have a clue how to answer your question, Henry, but I suspect your number is less than 1,000 worldwide.

Another factor to consider is that "micromounter" doesn't mean quite the same thing in Europe as in North America. In Europe there is a lot of overlap between "micromounter" and "species collector". A European species collector will stick a tiny ugly cleavage fragment of a very rare species into a little plastic box with a dab of sticky tack and call that a "micromount", which simply wouldn't pass muster in North America. We have aesthetic and "engineering" criteria attached to the concept of "micromount" here that are not necessarily part of the tradition in other parts of the world.

24th Feb 2016 04:50 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

Henry and I both attend the Northern California Mineralogical Association meeting and I would say that there are about 40 folks that show up. There are a few of the younger set there. Here in the Pacific Northwest we have a group that meets twice a year with 20 to 30 folks, mostly older. For those that live in the Portland area, they get together at the homes of a couple of folks to have informal meetings. These are to help the less experienced members learn some mineralogy.

24th Feb 2016 04:57 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

For example there are noone real micromounter in Russia. During a couple years I am trying to explain to people what is it - micromounting, but they aren't ready to understand these simple things - http://www.mineralforum.ru/index.php/topic,27912.0.html :(

24th Feb 2016 05:55 UTCReinhardt van Vuuren

I think age is a big factor in many clubs, I am a 28 year old micromounter although my technique is more like a species collector as Petrov described, in fact I'm a member of the SA Micromount society and as far as my knowledge goes they all use a dab of sticky tack to "mount" specimens. Other than that I am currently the Chairman of the SA Gem and Mineral Club and we have had a struggle with finding and retaining new and younger members, largely because the younger generation are so busy they don't have time to look and minerals, this is obviously a broad generilasion. What we have found is that there has been a steep decline from about two generations ago and for all we know the digital age could even be to blame. Kids more interested in playing minecraft mining virtual gold and diamonds to make armor, weapons and tools than they are to go out and find a quartz crystal in real life. I think the problem is even more enlarged if I look at our membership of about 20-25 in the gem club and I am the only one interested in micromounts, and yes we have had talks and demonstrations on micromounting. The other problem I see is that very few of our members actually actively build mineral collections and our lapidary workshop goes largely unused. well these are all my opinions from this side of the map.

24th Feb 2016 06:51 UTCSteve Sorrell Expert

Not too many Australian micromounters. Lots of micromineralists, like me :)

Regards

Steve

24th Feb 2016 07:14 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

Being a young mineral collector, I am 18, I felt that I had to pitch in. Although I do have many specimens that would be considered micromounts, in fact almost 75% of my collection is micro sized and fit in micro boxes, I don't think I would be considered by others to be a micromounter. The reason I say thas is because while most of my specimens are so small, it is not because I only collect micro sized minerals, it is because most of the types of minerals I collect only come in that size. I don't go out of my way to mount my specimens a particular way, but I do make sure they are nicely mounted as to properly display the mineral(s) on the piece, and that the right locality, mineral, etc. info is attached. I don't have anything against micromounting, and I respect those who do it, but it is just something different than what I personally do.

I think Alfredo might be right, there does not seem to be very many people that are micromounters, and the worldwide number is probably fairly small.

Another thing I would like to add: Although it may seem that people around my age may not appear to be interested in minerals, I think they are, however the hobby takes dedication, time, and effort, which I don't think people my age have the patience for. I have talked with many people my age, and when I talk to them about minerals, and show them pictures of some of mine, or others specimens, they enjoy them, regardless if it's scientific curiosity or not. I actually was not actively interested in minerals until a few years ago, I discovered my small collection box of rocks and minerals from when I was much younger. Since then, like I have mentioned, it took dedication, time, and effort for me to reach where I am today, but it has been very rewarding for me (I have also received a lot of help from some very kind and knowledgeable individuals, and I thank them very much for helping me out.)

To put it outright, I just think that today's youth are hooked on instant gratification, and as it is said, "patience is a virtue" and it seems to be very rare with today's youth. I must admit, I do play computer games and participate in social media, but I am not hooked on it like a lot of others my age.

Mineral collecting, especially micromounting, is a hobby which is generally much more common for people who are older, have more patience, are willing to take the time, and make the effort.

24th Feb 2016 10:59 UTCMarzio Mamberti Expert

For that concerns Italy , the AMI ( Italian Micromineralogical Association ) , by consulting the current list , has just under 600 members , whereas here also include the non-Italian members, associations and some museums, some deceased members , i think i can say that the actual and active micromounter are in Italy at least 450 , i think the age ' average is still close to 60 years .

By consulting the lists of homologous French and Belgian associations you can ' get a feel even more ' wide , in addiction to these as well as other micromounter scattered in others nations will have to add at least those of the UK and Germany , these nations that have historical tradition in this regard .

24th Feb 2016 12:19 UTCLuca Baralis Expert

In addition to Marzio Mamberti post, I 'd like to point that most (may be all) italian "micromounters" are better qualified as "microminerals collectors" as, quoting Alfredo Petrov, we use to fix specimen with tack or, someone, with hot glue, not performing a real mounting as intended in USA.

24th Feb 2016 12:29 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

In a mineral society of approximately 700 of which I'm the President, I only know of two serious micromounters in the entire group, two! I can't imagine there are a lot of folks out there who would call themselves dedicated micromounters. I have several micro minerals in my collection, but that certainly doesn't make me a micro person. I do know of another person that has an extensive micro collection to the tune of about 5,000 specimens (might be more now; that was a few years ago) which he started while still in college. The beauty of his collection is that he now lives in an apartment where space is at a premium to start with, so collecting tiny minerals for him was kind of out of necessity. Still, he has amassed an amazing collection of rare species as well as common ones from familiar places. I believe micromounting is slowly becoming a lost offshoot to mineral collecting for which I don't have an answer to. I know there are dedicated groups out there and I commend them for their perseverance to keep the hobby and science alive. Maybe more emphasis at the larger shows (Tucson, Denver, Munich, etc.) would help?

Alex really hit the proverbial nail in that the younger generation doesn't seem to have a willingness or the patience to actually sit down, study micro minerals, mount them in a small box, and display them. "I want it now" is their battle cry, yet if they would just stop and smell the roses instead of worrying about if they are "liked" on social media, maybe things would change, but I'm not holding my breath....

24th Feb 2016 12:29 UTCGary Moldovany

I sell quite a few micromounts at my show tables. The price is right, usually $3 each. I have trouble keeping them in stock. I have had to pull specimens from my own collection at times to keep the boxes full. In my opinion, micromount collecting is alive and well in the northeastern US. I don't know how many of these people do their own micromounts. My mineral club has a micromount collector group with about 10-12 members including the legendary Ralph Thomas.

24th Feb 2016 13:10 UTCTony Peterson Expert

Please excuse the dumb question.........but what length scale defines a micromount? Is a thumbnail with 1 mm xtals a micro specimen? Or do we need to get down to 0.1 mm? Must the mineral in question be isolated and mounted alone? (I presume a cabinet specimen covered with a druse is not really a micromount :-) )

Tony

24th Feb 2016 13:13 UTCMichael Wood

Pavel, thanks for the link you provided in your post above. Is there a translation button available on the mineralforum.ru website?

Cheers, Mike Wood

24th Feb 2016 13:51 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Michael, unfortunately the translation button is absents there. Besides that for looking at all attached photos registration on the site is necessary.

24th Feb 2016 14:03 UTCAntonio Nazario

Young micromounter right here! I am only 15 yrs. old and I am interested in micro minerals.

24th Feb 2016 14:15 UTCBob Harman

HENRY B's original posting asked about micro mounter numbers while lamenting the fact that he has seen a significant decline in their numbers.

I hate to partially hijack this thread, but his observations are just a part of the problem. How many serious mineral collectors are now out there today? How many folks in the US routinely spend $5,000 or $10,000 or more for ultra hi end specimens. Maybe a few hundred or a thousand or so?? How many spend any time or money at all on their mineral collections?? Maybe less than 30 or 40 years ago?? I think all Gail Spann's (and others) enthusiasm with the hugs, smiles, thumbs up, and libations at the Tuscon meetings over a beer or glass of wine masks the real fact that most of the folks were 60, 65, 70 and 75+ years of age or older......just a part of the micro mounter numbers problem. Sure there were younger folks pictured, just like some younger micro mounters are out there and can be found, but they are not in the numbers to replace those older folks now going down hill towards the end of their mineral collecting careers and lives.

Just like the climate change movie narrated by ex VP Al Gore...."An Inconvenient Truth". Some off us are like the climate change deniers; like ostriches, we stick our heads in the sand and deny that there are fewer younger folks going in to serious mineral collecting to replace the large numbers of us relatively older serious collectors. That may be the REAL problem to be discussed here! CHEERS.....BOB

24th Feb 2016 14:27 UTCTimothy Greenland

Bob, I'm sure we elderly folk deplore the small number of youngsters seriously interested in our hobby (or any other 'serious' interest), but, on reflection, I seem to remember that very few of my contemporaries shared any part of my interest in minerals back when I was a beginner in the early 1960s. It seemed to me that apart from a few colleagues, who were mostly somewhat older than I, the field was populated by a bunch or greying dodderers who knew a lot but were no longer very active on a steep slope (or down a steep stope either)... The hobby survives nevertheless and I dare hope it will continue to do so - unless the 'powers that be' succeed in forbidding any such activity on or under the ground - as sometimes seems to be their agenda!

As to micromounting. I have a lot of micro specimens that I really enjoy because many of the more unusual combinations of chemical elements are only available, at least for my budget, in small-to-tiny specimens. The joy of discovering their beauty under a 'scope is for me perhaps even greater than the wonder invoked by big beautiful 'high-end' specimens. I do not claim to be a micromounter, however, because I lack the artistic talent to achieve the 'mounting' part of the title. Mine are just stuck in a small plastic box with no embellishment...

Cheers

Tim

24th Feb 2016 14:29 UTCJeffrey Shallit

Nobody is talking about how to rectify the situation. The key is to have a club that is constantly recruiting younger members. And the way to do that is through mineral clubs devoted to younger members, like the Young Toronto Mineralogists Club (http://www.ytmc.org). Having educational events in schools, putting up posters about meetings, etc. are all ways to contact younger members. Giveaways at meetings are good, too.

Just some ideas, probably nothing original.

24th Feb 2016 15:04 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

The micromineral (and mineral) collector scene in Austria is dramatically declining. That`s a fact.

I doubt the theory that the young don`t have passion any more.

I always compare the mineral collectors scene with the metal detecting scene.

This other scene is like mineral hunting in the 70ies and 80ies last century. Masses of new - and young - collectors with a devotion to the hobby that is incredible.

Hours of hours hunting for Middle Age, Roman or even older artefacts! Out in the countyside, equipped with modern technology and always the thrill of a good find in mind.

Sure, metal detecting is also harder nowadays than 30-40 years ago. You have to use more your brain. But that`s exactly the same with minerals. When you use your brain then it never was that easy to find good minerals - at least for me as micromineral collector. Hundreds of old mines here, where no micromineral collector was ever before, easy findable with modern technology like laserscan. A click on your computer and you get masses of literature!

When you go always to the same places like you did 20 years ago, well then it really can be difficult.

In my opinion the connection to the youngsters was lost. You cannot catch a young guy with a mineral show where he (or she!) can spend her money. They want a kick - be it a good self collected mineral or a Roman coin.

24th Feb 2016 15:12 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

I assume the number of micromounters is quite 'small".

24th Feb 2016 15:14 UTCDan Fountain

Steve Hardinger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I assume the number of micromounters is quite

> 'small".

A microscopic percentage of collectors, I would say.

24th Feb 2016 15:43 UTCBob Harman

JEFFREY S has the right idea. We need a better and more inclusive way to recruit younger adults, families and the youngsters. More clubs and outreach programs and less social cliques, including those just pictured at the Tucson show. There should have been more pix of booths for young adults, beginners, and kids to sign up with clubs and field trips where ever they live. A national organization such as the Friends of Mineralogy should be actively recruiting folks from all over and pigeon holeing them into their local collecting scene where ever they were from. These kind of ideas should be discussed and take hold if us older folks are to be really superseded by growing numbers of younger active collectors. And btw, I can afford and do occasionally buy higher end specimens so I am not an outsider.....just an "activist rabble rouser".

For me, it was much different than TIMOTHY G described. When I, as an 18 year old came from NYC to college in Indiana, I saw many kids go off each weekend to local quarries to collect (mostly calcites). I tagged along and became interested; then, over many years, became serious about my mineral collecting. Unfortunately time and interests do change. The "golden age" of worldwide mineral specimens may now be occurring (or recently has occurred), but the "golden age" of micro mounters passed about 40 - 50 years ago (?) with the passing such greats as NEIL YEDLIN and the "golden age" of general serious collectors might have also passed about 15 - 25 years ago in the 1980's to about the year 2000 with the height of the Tucson show and the finding of the Sweet Home Mine rhodochrosites and other great mining area specimens.

Without action, there are too many current headwinds to sustain us at the present time: changing interests such as more sports, the internet and social media, and the closing of mining sites, quarries, and other off limited areas etc that severely limit younger folks from getting interested in minerals thru field collecting. Then there are the price increases that put some buyers off, there are all the other expenses associated with going to shows. All these conspire to, in my mind, forebode tough times ahead unless immediate and profound action is taken by us serious collectors.

Enough from me. Maybe I am just too much of a pessimist......or an unfortunate truth realist? CHEERS.......BOB

24th Feb 2016 16:27 UTCDoug Schonewald

I am not a youngster, but I am young at the mineral collecting field. I am in my 60's but have just started collecting again after many, many years. In many ways I regret not starting earlier since I worked at, or near, many of the north Idaho mines (Bunker Hill, Crescent, Sunshine, Galena, Polaris, Star) in the days when you could take mineral samples from the ore cars or go underground and collect samples from the veins just for the asking. That being said, I was surprised at the cost of collecting, assembling, documenting, and cataloging a mineral collection of any size. Assorted hand tools, loupes, microscopes, cameras, analysis, mounting, storage, specimens, shows, petrol expense, and so on can get quite expensive. Mineral collecting is also time related. No one but the most well-healed who are not constrained by jobs, family, or unrelated commitments are going to build a collection in a year or two so one needs to be patient and persistent.

It is NOT just the cost of specimens, but the cumulative costs of time and funds that dissuade many. It almost turned me away before I had really begun.

I also believe it takes a certain personality to be a mineral collector and build a collection. Being a little OCD helps a lot. Enjoying tedious tasks also helps. It takes excellent organizational skills, knowledge, willingness (to be criticized and learn), funds, and above all patience (most decent collections are not going to be built quickly). These attributes need to be exhibited not only by the older AND younger participants, but in the case of the younger folks it needs to be supported and funded greatly by the parents. Parents are also required to participate since younger members can't just run around the country collecting minerals on their own.

There are ways around this though. For myself I have resorted to collecting as many minerals from my geographic area as possible. My collection may never be aesthetic, nor astounding, but I hope before it is over it will expand the mineral database of my area and leave something for others. Of course I collect wherever I go, but much of that material I would consider trade stock or giveaways for others.

It could go a long ways for educational institutions to require mineral collecting and identification as a science project, geology project, or even a curriculum subject, at the high school level, maybe even sooner. The sooner a person is exposed the more likely they will be to continue. I know that my experience in my youth (a rock collection given by my grandfather and gold panning with my father) was instrumental in renewing my interest in mineral collecting.

24th Feb 2016 16:44 UTCLuca Baralis Expert

Bob Harman Scritto:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ... How

> many serious mineral collectors are now out there

> today? How many folks in the US routinely spend

> $5,000 or $10,000 or more for ultra hi end

> specimens ...

This is a point of view I've already met here and there. Why to be a "serius" mineral collector you have to routinely spend

$5,000 or $10,000 (or euro if you prefer) or more for ultra hi end specimens ?

I think it's a very, very debatable opinion!

24th Feb 2016 16:52 UTCMichael C. Michayluk

I'm a young (25 years old) micromounter who actively works on his collection. I wasn't in the facebook group until yesterday but now that number is slightly more accurate.

24th Feb 2016 16:58 UTCTimothy Greenland

I too have rarely spent three-figure sums (dollars, pounds or euros) for specimens and have never ever climbed to four figures. I still consider myself a serious collector in that I try to study the specimens I get to get an idea of how they formed. Each one is trying to tell me a story, if only I can find how to understand it... That is my motivation for the collection - not monetary value of artistic perfection.

Incidentally, none of my children or grandchildren are interested in participating in the hobby. They are mildy intrigued by the collection, but treat it with resigned tolerance! I cannot have provided a very tempting rôle model for the love of chemistry and mineralogy. They have not followed my biological leanings either.

Cheers

Tim

24th Feb 2016 18:07 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Michael, nice to meet you here. Maybe you can explain a bit how and why you started with micromounting/micromineral collecting.

And yes this thread is about micromounting and not how much money you spend on minerals.

24th Feb 2016 18:25 UTCDoug Schonewald

Got off topic, apologies

24th Feb 2016 18:28 UTCHenry Barwood

Couple of comments:

I did not mean micromounters in the sense of people who mount perfect specimens ideally positioned for viewing. I am more of a micromineral person who likes to view and image microscopic crystals. I rarely permanently mount a piece since I often have to re-position it for imaging or cleaning.

The discussion about the amount spent on mineral specimens defining the "high-end" collector reminds me that we really have a divide in mineral "collecting". On one side are people who collect minerals as art, period. They spend the megabucks, but seldom study the minerals themselves. On the other side are the "collectors" who are interested in acquiring specimens of a single species, rare species, interesting twins, radioactive minerals, minerals of one color, etc.

Micromount people seem to be a subset of collectors. They generally HAVE to study the minerals intensively and tend to know much more about mineralogy, crystallography, ore deposits and geology than most general collectors. All of this is mostly in an effort to identify the tiny things they gather.

24th Feb 2016 18:42 UTCD. Peck

I have been a "micromounter" for 60+ years. In a way, it is a solitary hobby . . . me and microscope. The problem becomes, how does one show the attraction to others; and there are really only two ways. One is to sit the person down with your microscope and a selection of micros for, say an hour of "Wow", "Ooh", "Ahh" etc. Or photograph your specimens to display them on a video screen. I think the former is much more effective than the latter, although Jolyon's 3-D video development may change that. In order to interest others in micros, we must show our micros. The uninitiated are usually amazed at what we see under the scope. They do ask questions and show an interest.

I belonged to a group in New Jersey where several of us built turntables to mount under our scopes. Each turntable held between 8 and 16 micros. At local shows we would line up from two to ten of them. Folks would line up four deep to look through the scopes. They would sit and look at the entire number before relinquishing their positions. Then often they would go to the back of the next line. The "Oooh" factor is important. So is having someone there to assist with the microscope and answer questions.

There are small micro boxes that have a magnifying lens built into the lid. I wonder what would be the effect of mounting a micro specimen in a box, and after a youngster spends time looking through the scope, handing her/him such a box . . . of course with a label on the bottom. I am not ready to give up on the kids . . . of any age.

24th Feb 2016 19:28 UTCMichael C. Michayluk

Hello again,

It is nice to meet you as well Christian! I was first introduced to micromounting as an undergraduate at Wayne State University (Detroit, MI). My first mineral mentor, Dave Lowrie, had showed me the mindat.org website as a tool to help us identify our finds as well as help study for class. It was here that I saw my first microphotograph which introduced me to the realm of microminerals. I began to see how microminerals open the collector up to a huge variety of species and forms otherwise unavailable. It would not be several years however until I received my first microscope and began to partake in the fun that is being a micromounter (Thanks to another great mentor in New Mexico). It seems to me that a major prohibiting factor for recruiting new active micromounters could be the initial cost of a good microscope. While I appreciated micromounts long before, and you can spark the initial interest by showing others, it wasn't until I got my own scope that I was able to actively build and work on a collection.

24th Feb 2016 22:35 UTCPavel Kartashov Manager

Henry Barwood Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Couple of comments:

> ...

With such reservations and I am micromounter. :-)

But there is one big difference between me and real micromounter - I never include in reestr of my the main collection perfect, well crystallized, transparent, shining crystal of sphalerite or sulphur nicely placed on matrix if the crystal will be 0.3 mm and matrix 5 mm size. I am simply unable to completely enjoy with so small sphalerite or sulphur. With arisite-(La) or steacyite I am able, while with perovskite or rhodochrosite I unable. So such sample of sphalerite/sulphur can be registered only in regional section of my collection if I would found it, for example, on Khaldzan Buragtag or Chungju deposits.

In other words, the 2x3x1 cm quartz sample with cavity filled by such http://www.mindat.org/photo-241386.html "kebab"-like aggregates may to be registered in my the main collection for its kuksite (if I will found it in the specimen at last), but never will be for duftite or, of course, quartz.

From other hand, I rememer as I had crying, when I had found ~1 cm long 0.3 mm thick crystal of lustrous green aegirine with overgrown snowflake-like sixlet of transparent shining niobian lorenzenite about 3 mm in diameter at its middle as ballerina's skirt. I simply hadn't any suitable materials to preserve this beauty...:-( This would be the best micromount of my life...

25th Feb 2016 00:05 UTCStuart Mills Manager

There are almost 900 members of the French Micromineral Society AFM but a bit like the Italians probably smaller minerals rather than MM, Same with the Australian groups.

25th Feb 2016 01:52 UTCMarzio Mamberti Expert

It 's true what they write, Alfredo and Luca, in Europe and, as confirmed by the Australian friends also from them, we are for the most part "microminerals collectors", "micromounter" is a "specialty within a specialty"

The opening speech of Henry, as he explained in his last post was not referring specifically to this more restricted category of "special micro mineral collectors" (micromounters) but, I believe we can continue to pleasantly talk simultaneously of both the types of collectors, "micromounters" and "micro minerals collectors."

Anyway, I mean to be optimistic, I wrote that in Italy are at least 450, I think actually a lot more but I do not have documents proving it, and as reported by Stuart, in France there are about 900 people who in some way deal with micro mineralogy, this is comforting. :-)

26th Feb 2016 16:35 UTCTom Mortimer Expert

First some background and data from the northeastern US:

The Micromounters of New England club draws the majority of its members from the six New England states in the northeast US. For the past decade our paid membership has held steady between 50 and 60 members. Our nine “monthly” meetings per year are attended by 12 to 20 members. Some members drive over 100 miles to get to our meeting and the average is likely about 50 miles. Our annual (June) symposium draws 30 to 40 attendees.

Although our name implies we are micromounters in the classic sense (tiny single crystals on a post), I could count on one hand the number of such mounts that I have viewed at meetings in the last decade. The super-majority of specimens in our member’s collections are micro-crystals on matrix mounted in inch by inch by three-quarter inch plastic boxes.

This thread has noted several of the principal advantages of micromineral collecting: low cost, low volume, and great species diversity. To those I would like to add: if you stockpiled field collected material, you can mineral collect year round (important to us in the Northeast US). A good find may be in any of those rock chunks you saved. Every exposed vug may be a unique geo-chemistry experiment and yield something quite different than a vug just a few cm away. The best find from last year may still be in your bucket!

Micromineral collecting is certainly popular with the mindat community. Checking the photos posted on Feb. 24, 2016 … of the 59 mineral photos posted, 32 had a FOV of 10 mm or less, (and 50 of the 78 mineral photos on 2/26/16). I believe this is typical.

As for the decline of micromineral collecting and the mineral collecting hobby overall, I believe collecting “things”, in general, is not pursued to the level it was several decades ago; be it minerals, stamps, coins, or baseball cards. Our hobby decline is just part of a trend. I also believe that this decline in interest must ultimately have a very significant impact on specimen valuations. The economics of supply and demand portends a future pricing sanity that will benefit those willing to wait.

As a somewhat novel solution to Don Peck’s issue of sharing microminerals with others, I designed and assembled a comprehensive species display of New Hampshire minerals that incorporates an interactive touch-screen monitor. This exhibit presents an image of the user selected species while simultaneously illuminating the specimen in the physical display: http://mindatnh.org/Display%20Case.html . As many of the species to be found in New Hampshire are only available as micro-sized specimens, this presentation method solves the problem of viewing very small samples. This display is on long term loan to the McAuliffe-Shepard Discovery Center, Concord, NH. Bus-loads of school children visit the center weekly. It is instructive to watch these kids interact with the exhibit. They “get it”! They are accustomed to interacting with a touch-screen device. An adjacent QR Code may be captured with their smart phone to connect them with greatly expanded content on New Hampshire minerals on my web site: http://mindatnh.org.

Tom Mortimer

26th Feb 2016 18:06 UTCSusan Robinson

Yes, there seem to be fewer serious mineral collectors. If you attend any club meeting, whether the focus of the group is about minerals, birds, stamps, antique cars, etc., you'll find that the majority of its members are from the baby boomer generation, which includes myself. I think we're in a vast cultural "shift", most likely brought about by humanity's increased use and addiction to technological devices. We may be the last generation of face-to-face meetings in clubs and other organizations. I'm not on Facebook, nor intend to be, and I know others who are not, either, and they are all about my age. That fact shows some of the divide between me and the younger people regarding the use of technology.

27th Feb 2016 04:32 UTCRod Martin Expert

The NZ Micromounters newsletter "Micro-Scope" had 102 subscribers as at March 2015 but this includes a number of overseas subscribers. Just 61 from New Zealand (population just shy of 4.5 mill) and I doubt there would be any more about.

27th Feb 2016 08:03 UTCJoel Dyer

Ah, such joys can be found in small, colorful, well formed crystals, occasionally rare though minute, especially if specific locations don't usually come up with larger crystals or much else of interest. Due to space issues, dust etc. I hardly bother to collect much big samples anymore & prefer to give a lot away, sometimes already onsite on a rock trip.

I really would like to know how many micromineral people there are, for instance, here in Finland, but most of them seem to be lone, half-secretive diggers, many are aged and not in very good health - I'm a youngster myself at around 52½.

It's amazing that there hadn't even seemed to be any purely micromineral collecting / micromounting articles published over here, until I published first one, and now another: can this really be so? Hello, Is There Anyboby Out There? I shout to my Finnish fellow-folks: surely there are more than the very few I know & sometimes even get to personally meet..?

Cheers,

27th Feb 2016 12:38 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

I have been reading this thread with interest. Although my wife and I collect pretty much across the board, I consider myself mostly a micromount collector.

I watch the photo postings on nearly a daily basis on mindat and see that besides a few people who photograph micromounts regularly in the US, most of the micromount photos come from Europe. I was just at the Tucson Mineral show and at the main convention center show there is a single small room upstairs specifically for micromounters. When you look at all the visitors to the show, the various dealer booths in the main hall are always crowded with people. Many I think are lookers but the high end dealers have lots of people at their booths. The micromounters room on the other hand has a few people coming and going, it is not crowded like the other booths.

Having just had a German visitor for three weeks, I talk with him often about collecting and he has also seen a steady decline in systematic collectors, the ones that often carry the smaller perky box specimens. In Germany he said there are practically no more collecting opportunities. All except the Clara Mine, one of the worlds best places for micromount specimens. One of the others that is also way up on the list is MSH Canada, another micromounters paradise. When I see the prices that some of the specimens demand from these places I think the micromount business is doing quite well.

As was stated above, the micromount collector can't stand in front of a display cabinet with friends and discuss the specimens easily seen.

I have had my share of the OOHS and AAHS when having people look at my favorite micromounts. I even have one box specifically set aside for this purpose. It is certainly not as easy as handing someone a fist size piece.

Photography has helped tremendously with being able to see the tiny specimens and I have found myself showing friends my photos on the computer more often these days than sitting them down at the microscope.

I find the wow factor is alive and well with the young people I have shown my micro specimens to but there is no follow up as also said above.

Although we are much fewer than the larger mineral collectors I believe our passion for what we do is strong. I too am in the older set, 66, but it is something that my wife says keeps me out of the bars.

Fun thread and I had to put in my two cents worth also.

Rolf Luetcke

27th Feb 2016 18:04 UTCD. Peck

Rolf, you are a youngster! I will be 86 in June. And at Tucson, did you listen to any of the Micro-symposium talks across the hall from the Micro Room? I think if we add up the number of micro collectors noted in the posts above, we would get a pretty impressive number.

27th Feb 2016 18:36 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Don,

How nice to call me a youngster! Don't feel like it but the hours go by easily looking at specimens under the microscope.

No, didn't go to the symposiums across from the micromounters room. I have in the past but not this time. We did meet Henry Barwood at the micromounters room, a pleasure.

The problem I have found is that all our friends who are micromounters live far away. The most fun is to sit with a fellow micromounter and discuss specimens we look at under the microscope.

27th Feb 2016 20:33 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

I'm probably one of very few in Australia, and almost certainly the only one in Tasmania, to have done a lot of classically-mounted micromounts, though mostly nowadays I use bluetac as it's easier to remove for study, photography etc.

I usually bring a microscope and some micro minerals to shows for the public to view (as well as study their unknowns and gems) - people love it, especially the kids, but I don't know that it has encouraged too many towards the hobby, even though there are some pretty good cheap microscopes about. Our clubs are mostly full of grey haired people like me.

27th Feb 2016 21:50 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

After reading the above posts I consider myself extremely lucky!! I have within a 40 mile radius four fellow micro collectors! One of those shares her home with me (my wife, Cookie); another, Jerry Cone lives ~40 miles North; Michael Michayluk, a grad student at New Mexico State lives down-hill from us in Las Cruces and the fourth, Joan Beyer, lives in Las Cruces also. We manage to get together two or three times a month to argue about the differences in shades of green, blue, yellow, etc., that we see in each other's micro finds. To me, this camaraderie is very much the fun of collecting......and, together, trying to figure out what we've found!

Don S.

27th Feb 2016 22:57 UTCRod Martin Expert

Here in Auckland, New Zealand, we have a small group of 10 micromounters and we meet every month for a 4 hour session. Each session has a topic and I usually put together a mineral related PPT that we show over lunch. We also have groups meeting monthly in Wellington, Christchurch and Blenheim. Anyone travelling down this way is encouraged to get in contact and join us for one of the meetings (we will even have a special meeting if our dates aren't suitable).

28th Feb 2016 00:07 UTCPaul Brandes 🌟 Manager

Nathalie and I were at the Clear Lake, Texas Mineral Show today and I specifically decided to see how many true micromount specimens there were for sale. I counted at least five booths that had flats upon flats of micros for sale, and that I recall, none were over $50 with most in the $5-20 range. I bought a couple just because they were interesting and should photograph nice. I spoke with one of the sellers and they stated that at their mineral society, they have a number of folks who solely collect micros. He said that when they do a program on micros or bring new specimens to their meetings, rather than have members look through a microscope, they have a video camera mounted on a microscope and feed it to a large flat screen TV for the entire group to see at once; what a novel idea!

14th Apr 2016 13:57 UTCTim Barnes

Henry I think I am in your group. But I just turned 50 if that makes you feel better?

lol Tim

14th Apr 2016 14:22 UTCHenry Barwood

Yep, turning 50 means it is all downhill from that point on out, Tim!

14th Apr 2016 15:25 UTCRobert Rothenberg

Sorry if it looks like I am hijacking the thread, not my intention. I recently turned 73 and have been doing more mineral related things than ever before. Being retired, I have time for things I have never been able to get to previously. There are more aches and pains, and I cannot move as easily as I used to, but there are still lots of opportunities. IMHO, it is not all downhill after 50; not even after 70.

Bob

5th May 2016 01:29 UTCAntonio Nazario

Maybe since kids these days are stuck on electronics someone has the smarts can make an app that is a game to show the mineral collecting

5th May 2016 06:16 UTCKeith Compton 🌟 Manager

Hi guys

Finally, I now have all the equipment I need to be a micromounter, including most of the tools!!

I have been wanting to start this path for some time. It will, at least in the short term, be a subset of my collecting.

I am going to try and be purist and mount all specimens (without that grey or blue tac).

Still trying to figure out the best method of mounting so I am experimenting a little.

Once I finish my first one I'll upload a pic or two

I promise I won't consider myself to be a micromounter until the first micromount is completed.

Cheers for now

Keith

5th May 2016 12:40 UTCWayne Corwin

Welcome to the "smaller 'Dark Side'" Keith

L:-DL

5th May 2016 16:29 UTCD. Peck

Welcome, Keith! Now you get to agonize over the "ID of that black crystal, in the bottom right of the vug", just like the rest of us. But seriously, you are going to see minerals you never saw before and in garden-like associations with others. It is a different world.

19th May 2016 18:41 UTCAntonio Nazario

hey what's up teen here who does micromounting. I am probably the youngest here

19th May 2016 19:14 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

Antonio,

It's very nice to know that I am *probably* not the only one around my age that enjoys microminerals. I am 19, and got started about a year and a half ago, and I have enjoyed every moment of it. Since I started I have also become fairly advanced, I have started specializing, mainly in Tellurium minerals, although I still enjoy the wide variety of minerals, and could likely be considered a systematic collector.

What do you like most about micromounting Antonio?

22nd May 2016 17:18 UTCD. Peck

Antonio and Alex, welcome to our special corner of the mineral collecting universe.

22nd May 2016 20:11 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

Thanks Don,

So far I have found micromounting to be very fun, and educational. I like being able to collect alot of the different species that only come in these sizes. Having a microscope really helps, and I like being able to see all of the tiny minerals that would normally be missed without one.

25th May 2016 12:42 UTCPaul Stephen Cyr

Looks like I am about half the average age at 25. I created and oversee the Facebook group The Micromount Club, which by all means has been a smashing success so far. If possible, I think it would be beautiful to assemble a book with photos from our talented members.

I put together my own micros of smaller field collected material, and occasionally break down bigger pieces that I buy or trade for.

I don't have a legitimate 'scope setup for photos, but I do try my best using an outdated iPhone and macro lens. For younger folks, I think money is a big issue in getting a photo setup together- I'm surely not the only one who realizes that a 'micro' digital camera, tube, lens, and stacking program could come together as a kit for ~$100 and be ready to go. This could be as simple as a stacking app and macro lens for a smart phone. Until then, I'll keep doing it the hard way, because I can't foresee the extra $1000 for a macro studio in the near future.

I don't know many younger kids who assemble micros, but I have sold several to young people, and many of my mineral and art/music friends appreciate The Micromount Club and the lush worlds that can be seen in these photos.

By the way: it seems that my generation is very interested in minerals, and should be picking up some of the slack left by others in recent years. The Franklin, NJ shows have seen an influx of dealers in their 20's (many friends of mine) who all have a unique stock.

I have no 'formal' training on the subject of mineralogy, but have been reading detailed scientific literature on the subject since I was 8 years old. A shame we can't be our own University; for I am mine.

25th May 2016 13:25 UTCAntonio Nazario

Alex I think it's the fact they are small and some most interesting crystal forms and mineral associations occur as micromount. Mainly the Legenbach quarry and Christmas mine interest me.

25th May 2016 17:02 UTCAlex Earl 🌟 Expert

Antonio, I agree I have a few pieces from lengenbach and the Christmas mine, and they are very interesting to look at.

Paul, I am a part of the micromount club facebook group and I agree, it seems to be doing quite well, a lot of people seem to post nice minerals, and they are usually all very different.

Also, at the moment I am working on assembling a microphotography setup. I recently got a digital camera from my parents, but I am working on purchasing the equipment I need. So far I have the bellows and an adapter for the objective lenses, but I still need the actual objective lenses and a base/stand to make it stable. It has actually been quite cheap, except for the camera, and I have only payed about $75 so far for the equipment. I think it will be worth it once I get everything put together.

7th Jun 2016 09:59 UTCMartin Stolworthy Expert

I suppose it's all down to the definition of micromounter. I call myself a micromount collector but in fact I am primarily a micro mineral collector. Here in the UK we have around 140 members of our national society, the British Micromount Society. I do have around 100 true Micromounts in my collection but they where done over 40 years ago when I first started. I can't think of any of our members who now mount their specimens, the last one being Peter Braithewaite and he passed away several years ago. There are clubs in most of the European countries with a fairly healthy group that collect so called Micromounts, but how many are true micromounter's is anyone's guess.

22nd Sep 2016 18:44 UTCJay I. G. Roland

"..will stick a tiny ugly cleavage fragment of a very rare species into a little plastic box with a dab of sticky tack and call that a "micromount", which simply wouldn't pass muster in North America. We have aesthetic and "engineering" criteria attached to the concept of "micromount" here that are not necessarily part of the tradition in other parts of the world."

And herein lies the problem in my view...what certain folks regard a micromounter to be. I mount my micro minerals very carefully in 25mm square micro boxes using 'mineral tac', to me that makes me a micromounter. It would seem however, in America at least, I would not qualify as such as I don't peg mount my minerals. I personally view this as a form of micromount snobbery. What does it really matter so long as the mineral in question is mounted in such a way as to display it in as best a way as is possible?

FWIW I think there are a heck of a lot more micrmounters out there than one thinks. I am a member of a group of say 25 regulars and only 2 of us are registered with Mindat. Therefore using the Mindat member database as any form of guide would be to make a huge underestimate of micromounters.

Just my tuppence worth.

Regards,

Jay.

23rd Sep 2016 00:28 UTCDana Morong

The published opinions by certain persons, about fixatives and other matters, are not followed by all others. I also use mineral-tack (I just try not to let it show) and I also live in America, so probably also would not be considered by a certain 'elitist' who also lives in North America - but I don't care, I do it the way you do it, and so do lots of other people. I have seen specimens (such as gotten second-hand) "permanently mounted" with fixatives, some of which show big globs of permanent fixative, and some which have interesting sides where they can't be seen well when stuck in the box. It can be very difficult to remove them without damage to the specimen. So some of us do it another way. and if it works, and you like it, enjoy it and don't worry about the elitists.

23rd Sep 2016 02:30 UTCD. Peck

To me a micromounter is anyone who fixes a microcrystalline specimen in a box to protect it. I use 7/8 inch square boxes when I can, but agree with Neal Yedlin: "if it is too big, get a bigger box." I am one of those who mount my specimens on a peg. I hate mineral tack, because it is impossible to remove, so I use water soluble white glue. And I like the top of my specimen as close as level to the top of the box as I can get it (saves re-focusing the microscope from specimen to specimen). Dana, you have a point about seeing the sides of the specimen. I use a black paper liner and glue the peg to the paper, rather than to the box. That way I can easily remove the whole from the box if I wish to view the sides.

And Jay, I agree with you in that I believe there are a lot more of us than is commonly believed. Further, I think the number is growing.

23rd Sep 2016 05:55 UTCDoug Daniels

Isn't the ultimate answer - to each, his own?

23rd Sep 2016 12:00 UTCReiner Mielke Expert

I think if you have to look through a microscope to properly see your specimen you have an interest in micros. The term micromounter implies that you mount (or collect) specimens of a certain size, so if you have one specimen in your collection that fits in a micromount box then you are or where ( if you will only ever have one) a micromounter. However maybe to be a micromounter only a certain percentage of your specimens have to fit into a micromount box? >50%? I collect thumbnails but at least 50% of my specimens require magnification to see properly, however only about 10% would fit into a micromount box so am I a micromounter? I would say I am a thumbnail micromounter. :-D

23rd Sep 2016 12:31 UTCJay I. G. Roland

Somewhile ago I was kindly gifted some micros from an old collection and everyone of them had been mounted on hot melt glue that had oozed out all over the place and quite frankly looked rather ugly. I had a devil of a job extracting the specimens from said glue but first I had to use my Dremel to cut the sides from the boxes to make for easier access. It obviously suited the original mounter to use that method but I would never dream of using hot melt glue.

Some folks feel the same about the use of mineral tac but for me it is quick, convenient and if used correctly can be nigh on invisible. It is of course easily removed leaving little or no residue should some future owner wish to remount the specimen.

As Doug above says, "to each his own".

Regards,

Jay.

24th Sep 2016 04:20 UTCDouglas Merson 🌟 Expert

I have everything from what would be considered a proper mount here in the US to small cabinet micros. Here in the US there is a difference in opinion as to mounting methods from east coast to west coast. The west coast is more liberal about what makes a micromount.

1st Oct 2016 19:27 UTCJoshua Chambers

Interesting what people are saying about the 'definition of a micromounter'. I would not consider myself a micromounter because I don't have an interest for specimens less than probably 3cm (1.5 inches); none of these would fit into a micromount box. However, with all of the specimens I have, I examine them to within an inch of their life under the microscope looking for the smallest 'micro'minerals. I find microminerals particularly interesting as they teach me a bit about mineral association, but they're all on specimens that aren't 'micromount' size. Would I be classed as a micromounter? Perhaps micromineral enthusiast? ;-)

Josh

2nd Oct 2016 01:45 UTCD. Peck

Josh, I like the "micro mineral collector" designation (maybe people say "micromounter" because it is half the number of syllables.) I don't think "micromounter" depends on the size of the box, or the method of mounting . . . only on mounting a specimen that needs magnification in a box for protection. We all have our preferences and that is as it should be.

22nd Oct 2016 20:10 UTCCasey Montgomery

I live prob 20 miles north of Dallas Texas and haven't run across any micromounters yet. Fairly new one myself. I have done only 40 or so micromounts.

5th Apr 2017 06:34 UTCJoseph Taggart

Don,

I would like to add some more recent information to this forum. First of all our club is called the Rocky Mountain Micromineral Association (we are in Golden, Colorado and meet at the Colorado School of Mines Geology Museum). http://rocky-mountain-micromineral-association.com/ Some members mount specimens to protect them, but we didn't want to imply that we have to be "mounters", so we didn't put micromount in the club name. Next I'd like to discuss our attempts to add more members to micromineral clubs. (we meet monthly and had 18 people at our meeting last month). I remember starting out in micromounting in High School, but only had a hand lens, so didn't become too active or skilled. It took the locating and purchase of a used binocular microscope at a mineral dealer when I was in my early 30's to get more active. Nowadays, however, we have an advantage that we didn't have years ago--- the internet. Our club has recently purchased some used B&L power zoom microscopes at bargain prices on Craig's list and EBay, to loan to new members. At first we will loan the scopes at meetings, for viewing the samples associated with the meeting topic. Ultimately we hope this will allow people to become interested. If they become interested enough to join and attend, we will loan them a scope to take home. This, hopefully, will get them involved, without them taking the risk of buying a microscope before they even know if they will like microminerals. It will also allow younger, less affluent collectors to get started.

Joe Taggart

5th Apr 2017 15:58 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Joe,

Lending a scope is a fabulous idea. The purchase price to a neophyte may be daunting when they are uncertain whether they will continue with the hobby; AND viewing micro mineral crystals in their natural habitat is one of the greatest incentives to getting involved. I think you have a great thing going there!

Don

5th Apr 2017 16:40 UTCTed Hadley

>The purchase price to a neophyte may be daunting

Don, I have to disagree.

The cost of a basic stereomicroscope with decent optics is easily within reach of 99% of the people in the 21st century. A decent quality Swift scope is only $250 new. Excellent quality, name brand scopes can be found used on eBay for similar prices. About 6 years ago I bought a pair of stereomicroscopes on eBay for $90 total including shipping; nothing wrong other than dirt.

Compare this with a smart phone (iPhone) for $400 - $600 with a $200+ per MONTH service plan that _everyone_ has to have.

Microscopes are cheap now.

And microscopes are valuable to more than micromount collectors. Thumbnails and small miniatures have all kinds if neat goodies hidden within them that need good magnification and light to see.

5th Apr 2017 18:00 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

I know a young collector who sometimes buys minerals costing around $1,000, but doesn't have a microscope and thinks they're too expensive. It's not a question of money, but rather of priorities. We can't dictate to people what their priorities should be.

5th Apr 2017 18:06 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

But we can advise them, from our experience, to rethink their priorities ;-)

5th Apr 2017 19:33 UTCBob Harman

If anyone hadn't noticed it, unfortunately an interesting note on this thread is the fact that HENRY BARWOOD, the original poster of the thread passed away last September 2016. While this has been mentioned elsewhere, his passing is a big part of the problem he brought up and we discussed over this past year. CHEERS.......BOB

5th Apr 2017 21:57 UTCRolf Luetcke Expert

Bob,

Was thinking the same as I reread many of the postings here. Shame he is gone now, but his legacy of interest lives on in us all.

Talking about microscopes. Started with one in the 1960's from a pawn shop for $150, nice older American Optical binocular with 5 powers. Then came a friend who had the head optics of a B& L he had sitting in his garage, traded a nice cabochon for that and built my own stand for it.

All of the photos I have on mindat are with the last purchase of an Optika zoom with attached microscope camera, for under a thousand dollars.

I certainly agree with the "priorities". That was something with fluorescence for many years. Only had a cheap older model and didn't have the spare money for a good one. When I finally did I got a three wave length one that is great, the difference is like using a ten power eye loop compared to a 40X microscope, huge difference.

As to thinking about my own collection and the above stated comments, so many people tend to label the type of collector but I have never fit any of those areas.

We have one boulder of self collected agate that is over a thousand pounds, actually two since to get it home we had to break it in half, down to true micromounts from friends in the old style of mounting. Personally I don't like those and remounted so many in the lids so I could photograph them from other angles.

As said though, in the collecting world there is room for us all.

Fun thread.

Rolf

6th Apr 2017 01:25 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

I agree that stereoscopes are reasonable in price for most people. And whether to buy a scope or some high priced specimen is a matter of priorities. But, when someone is investigating this hobby as a possible new specialization for the first time, not having a scope available is a substantial obstacle. I think that Joe Taggert and his micro group have hit on an idea that will help a neophyte decide whether or not he/she wants to continue with the specialty and invest in a scope. I also think that being able to use a decent scope at the onset raises the odds that the individual will continue. There is a wow factor that works while viewing micro crystals on matrix, together with associations. Experiencing it makes the person more likely to stick.

6th Apr 2017 05:43 UTCDaniel J. Evanich 🌟 Expert

It's becoming much more affordable every year to participate in the micromount community. For example, you can purchase a digital camera with a photo stacking feature built in for less than $400. Here's an example of what you can expect from an affordable option using the Olympus TG-4 camera. Aurichalcite from Bluebell Mine in SoCal.

6th Apr 2017 07:08 UTCHerwig Pelckmans

Hey Dan and all my other (micro)mineral friends!

WOW, that is sooo tempting ... From the start (40+ years ago) I promised myself NOT to get into mineral photographing, but your post makes me wonder again. Thanks for doing that! :-)

Getting back to the original question and the person who asked: I know Henry passed away, but am sure he wanted us to continue this thread. Also happy to know a mineral with his name on is in the process of being described.

When I came across this thread, I reread it from the start. Some of the numbers posted earlier should be adjusted.

For example, the AFM, the "Association française de microminéralogie" which translates to the "French Association of Micromineralogy" states in her report of her General meeting, held October 23rd, 2016:

"the number of [club] members is stable, 408. Our foreign friends, 47 in total, make up for a little over 10% of the total amount of members."

[the report (in French) can be found as a pdf-file on the website of the AFM]

It has to be mentioned as well that the AFM is NOT the only club that groups French micromineral collectors.

The "Association 'Micromonteurs'" which translates as the "'Micromounters' Association" is also a French group of micromineral enthousiasts.

No idea how many members they have, maybe someone can fill us in?

Anyway, most mineral collectors are micromineral collectors at the same time. As soon as they need a loupe (or some other magnifying device) to have a better view of the crystals on their specimens, then those specimens can be regarded as micromineral specimens and hence the collectors as micromineral collectors. :-)

I agree the above might be a little to liberal for some, and getting back to the original question again, I am pretty sure Henry wanted to know "how many people collect mainly microminerals mounted in small plastic boxes", to put it very generally. A rather tough question to answer, even for a single country, since most mineral collectors will have microminerals in their collection, but will never look at themselves as micromineral collectors. And quite a few people that are micromineral collectors will never join a micromineral club if they are happy with the "general mineral club" they are in.

Cheers, Herwig

Herwig Pelckmans

MKA (Min.Soc.Antwerp, Belgium)

6th Apr 2017 11:18 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager

Daniel: what's the field of view for your aurichalcite photo?

6th Apr 2017 15:17 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Dan,

Beautiful specimen and great photo. How does the built in photo-stacking work? (maybe we should start a new thread on this)

Don

25th Apr 2017 18:03 UTCDaniel J. Evanich 🌟 Expert

Uwe; The aurichalcite photo has a 7mm fov

25th Apr 2017 18:16 UTCDaniel J. Evanich 🌟 Expert

Don;

The Olympus TG-4 has a feature called "microscope" function that uses automatic stacking. It's an easy to use built-in feature selectable on the mode wheel. The effective shooting range is 5.5mm-18.0mm which provides very nice photos with good depth of field for everyday use. It's not intended to replace a professional macro setup, but rather to offer an additional tool at an affordable price at this shooting range. My main purpose for using it is to get a quick, good quality macro photo for species identification aid. And it also has Wi-Fi for smart phone control. A couple of recent examples are attached here. All are in the 7mm to 15mm fov range.

25th Apr 2017 21:06 UTCTed Hadley

Hi Dan,

Those photos are superb. I was wondering: How do you hold the camera up close to the specimen and keep it from moving?

T

25th Apr 2017 21:22 UTCDaniel J. Evanich 🌟 Expert

T;

I use a custom American made camera stand built by Swarf Systems. Pictures of it are shown at the website: http://www.swarfsystems.com/

26th Apr 2017 01:39 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Thank you, Dan. I was not aware that the stacking could be done automatically by the camera.

26th Apr 2017 02:52 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert

Donald,

I did start a thread on this about three years ago. Camera for Mineralogists?

Cheers,

Gene

26th Apr 2017 16:03 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Gene,

Sorry, I guess I missed it. I am a bit of a tinkererer and have spent some time trying to figure our how I could make a mechanical device that advanced to minerals for the Z-stack. Never really figured it out.

Just read through your thread . . . quite informative! THANKS.

Don

26th Apr 2017 18:34 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert

Donald,

A very inexpensive and effective way to stack is to use a micrometer driven Z-axis stage like the one shown here. My first stacking effort were done with one of these devices, which I eventually automated. You can find the details here.

Gene

27th Apr 2017 08:57 UTCEddy Vervloet Manager

Very nice photos for that price indeed, Daniel. I would love to see a separate thread on this.

I was reading about that camera and saw they mention a distance of 1cm to the object. That sounds fine for a flower outside, but with minerals (likely in a vug?) how do you get lighting in between the camera and the specimen?

Eddy

27th Apr 2017 10:21 UTCTimothy Greenland

Eddy,

There is a quite inexpensive ring flash guide that fits round the lens and provides adequate lighting even at that approach. I have inserted the camera into a natural cavity and captured helpful pictures of small stuff on the walls this way... They are not 'keeper' photos - just field guides, so I don't have any to show here...

Best wishes

Tim

27th Apr 2017 16:40 UTCDonald B Peck Expert

Gene, I just ordered one. Thanks!

Don

27th Apr 2017 17:25 UTCEddy Vervloet Manager

Thanks, Timothy, I will be looking into that!

Eddy

27th Apr 2017 19:19 UTCRichard Gibson 🌟

Dan should get a commission from the Olympus folks.... I got one too. Test pic attached.

28th Apr 2017 20:16 UTCDaniel J. Evanich 🌟 Expert

Nice photo, Richard. Also, I started a new topic on this subject: search "Olympus TG-4....." in micromounting subject area.

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